Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

imidazol97 · May 2005

Should have called the company that owned the truck. Sometimes they care.

bottgers · May 2005

I would've, but unfortunately there was no company name or number on the truck.

kdshapiro · May 2005

"If the trucker went to the cops complaining about bottgers, they would have told him essentially the same thing."

Ummm. What would have been the complaint?

1. going the speed limit or,
2. tapping the brake lights to ask the trucker to maintain a safe cruising distance.

Also bottgers did not slow down. So I'm not sure what you are saying, but the trucker being bigger wanted his way on the road and the fellow drivers be damned.

explorerx4 · May 2005

not sure if i doing the correct thing to post a link, but i think the red corvette driver was being inconsiderate.

http://ler.serveftp.net/onelap/2005/day04/video/td04v02.wmv

gambit293 · May 2005

My girlfriend visited a friend on Saturday near campus. When she returned to her Jetta, she was surprised to find some pretty serious scratchs along the left side, covering both doors.

Here's the surprise (at least surprising to me): the other driver left a note with a phone number. My gf later called her, and the driver apologized profusely and volunteered to completely pay for all damages, even offering to cover the cost of a rental car if necessary. Apparently she had been driving her husband's truck and wasn't used to the way it handled.

Does anyone have any feedback regarding "under the table" settlements? Some people I know said to take it to the best shop possible and slap on an extra $100, though I don't plan on doing that; I'm pretty impressed that she left a note in the first place, and I don't intend to punish her for that. Any gotchas, what-ifs or issues I need to be wary of? We already have the driver's name, address, and phone number (she lives right next to the friend).

PS: I hope this is relevant enough that it doesn't get modded. If anything, it's sort of a twisted story of "considerate" driving.

ruking1 · May 2005

You have answered your own question. In essence there is no valid complaint on either side. The cops basically have already indicated they can't nail a guy because someone says he has an attitude. Same for the trucker. As for demonstrated behavior, it is legal for the trucker to be in the passing lane,even going 45 mph, to quote a poster that says he normally passes in a reasonable time (say 20-30 seconds)!? So indeed if he was going 80-85 and you were going slower then in theory you had a lot of time to repass if/when he did slow to 45 mph. Actually for a truck that is perfectly logical from a defense point of view. The other thing that needs to be said is if you know someone is passing you it is DANGEROUS and illegal to speed up. Of course, like left lane camping it is seldom enforced. Not to mentioned the fact that this type of analysis is usually settled POST mortem, which to my mind is what we are trying to avoid. So this in no way condones WHAT WAS done or perceived to have been done.

I am sure you have been to the elephant races and sat behind for several minutes and several miles??

kdshapiro · May 2005

"You have answered your own question. In essence there is no valid complaint on either side"

That is flat out incorrect, if you read bottgers original post. The truck making an aggressive passing manuever, not properly yielding and slamming on the brakes in the hopes of causing an accident.

Here is bottgers quote from his original post:

As soon as his trailer just barely cleared the front of our car, he swerved into our lane and locked up brakes down about 35 or 40 mph, then he sped up and drove away.

Do you still maintain the trucker did nothing wrong? In addition, the rule of thumb is 1 car length for every 10 mph. Bottgers maintains the truck was 10 feet from his bumper at 60 mph. So again I ask you, why do you maintain the truck was in the clear?

The truckers action was willful road aggression, which can at least get you ticketed in most states. Methinks you need to reread the original post.

ruking1 · May 2005

And again, if YOU read the post, he did take the unusual step of stopping at the state police. After hearing the facts as presented, THEY decided doing nothing was the best course!!??

kdshapiro · May 2005

According to the story bottgers relays to us, the police would have to catch the trucker in the act.

That doesn't mean the trucker was innocent, it means a complaint can't be filed after the fact.

ruking1 · May 2005

That is true for the majority of traffic violations, this can't be your point? Also last I checked the law of the land says: innocent till proven guilty.?

I hope you dont mind me saying this but this seems to be a case of folks getting all dressed up with no party to go. I mean what is going to be done with this? Stalk the guy? Unload on the next trucker than even comes close to this attitude and similar situation? Drag race the next truck and WIN?

kdshapiro · May 2005

Point. This is a forum for discussing Inconsiderate Drivers. Just because the cops were not around to catch a rogue trucker, who decided to almost run someone off the road or worse, does not make this trucker innocent.

In my town you can go to the local police and file a report and the cops will follow-up.

I hope you dont mind me saying this but this seems to be a case of folks getting all dressed up with no party to go. I mean what is going to be done with this? Stalk the guy? Unload on the next trucker than even comes close to this attitude and similar situation? Drag race the next truck and WIN?

You seem to be of the opinion unless the cops can catch someone it's not worth talking about. While we all have exchanged ideas and opinions and certainly have our differences, there should be zero tolerance for truckers using their size to bully passenger cars.

As you live on the left coast you're not privvy to the constant stream of bodies being pulled out of wreckages caused by trucks on one of our main east-west interstates. Hint: it's not passenger cars that cause these unfortunate crashes.

imidazol97 · May 2005

>you're not privvy to the constant stream of bodies being pulled out of wreckages caused by trucks on one of our main east-west interstates...it's not passenger cars that cause these unfortunate crashes.

Amen.

ruking1 · May 2005

"You seem to be of the opinion unless the cops can catch someone it's not worth talking about. While we all have exchanged ideas and opinions and certainly have our differences, there should be zero tolerance for truckers using their size to bully passenger cars. "

Sounds wonderful, but after 39 years of driving and over 1.2 M miles as a driver on the road, survival is the name of my game.

If you look at the NHTSA statistics, large trucks indeed have a higher RATE of accidents and fatalities. 80% of the trucks checked in CA have serious safety deficiencies. A lot of drivers are at the edge of fatique, hallucination. etc. etc. yada yada. So why you would want to advocate "poking a big rig in the eye with a stick "so to speak is really beyond me.

This actually happen to me so pardon me if I have expressed it one two many times. I was heading on a major N/S freeway Highway 5 heading toward a slight rise of say 500 ft to go through a "hill pass". Two lanes in either direction on coming traffic separated by sort of a mountain island. There is a dirt road used by highway workers and highway patrol and definitely not for the general public. And of course doing a u turn on a major interstates is DANGEROUS. So I just pass a truck in the left lane with him in the right. If I have done this pass once I have done it hundreds of thousands of times. The center meridian shows a dust cloud (min cyclone) (signs of either pulled over or turning traffic )and simutaneously my radar detector goes off. So I am 100% defensive ready to go off the road if I have to. So I signal to go to the right lane and the truck probably annoyed (but probably didnt see or think much of the dust plume) lets me in but I am guessing he is probably annoyed. So yup you guessed it the highway patrol picks the EXACT time I am up along side of him to enter the # 1 lane, sending up now deep plumes of dust. The truck driver probably right before this is cursing me probably and signals for the left or passing or #1 lane. Naturally by this time he is about to kiss the highway patrol right smack dab in the REAR END. As I looked in the mirror I could see the highway patrolman was almost clueless and the face of the truck driver was almost ghost white as he put metal under tension, down shifting, #enngine exhaust BILLOWING BLACK SMOKE, braking and probably praying to GOD he didn't make contact. The CHP really didnt know how close he came to being ROAD KILL. So as you can see clueless, illegal actions, under color of law, armed, with the ability to hunt you down and in extreme cases kill you....

Right, complain to the police.....

kdshapiro · May 2005

"So why you would want to advocate "poking a big rig in the eye with a stick "so to speak is really beyond me."

The only big stick I'm advocating is the big billy club the police carry.

"there should be zero tolerance for truckers using their size to bully passenger cars."

So because we can't make the problem go away, we shouldn't shoot for the best we can do. Maybe we should abolish the zero tolerance for drinking and driving since we can't make it go away.

"Right, complain to the police..... "

Sounds to me like you left coasters are a cynical bunch. I now understand where you are coming from. If it were me I would be complaining to the local police barracks. You seem to be of the opinion, one bad apple....

andre1969 · May 2005

it's been my experience that, unless the cops see the perp do it, and/or there is property damage/bodily harm, then it basically becomes a "he said/she said", and there's really nothing they can do about it.

And unfortunately, the way things work out, it's like back in second grade where one kid throws a punch and the teacher doesn't see it, but when the second kid throws a punch back, he's the one that gets caught and punished. The truly guilty party usually goes free, while the victim gets persecuted as a vigilante for defending him/herself.

In situations like the one Bottgers mentioned, the police are going to be about as useful as the bumper sticker that says "How's my driving? Call 1-800-328-7448" (or 1-800- 382-5633) :mad:

ruking1 · May 2005

Well I don't know if it is being cynical, but truly at the local police barracks the answer will be app the same answer as what bottgers got. I don't see this guy as a "bad apple" AT ALL. The other thing is there is no doubt for this or most other highway patrol that what he did was SOP. It was just ill timed or closer than "I PERCEIVED" it should have been. .As close as it was, (from my perspective of course) I was never in any danger, even it the fully loaded tractor trailer plowed into the rear of that police cruiser. So as far as anyone is concerned the truck driver is alive undamaged and unhurt, the CHP is alive undamaged and unhurt and for me likewise. All I would have had to do was punch the accelerator and I would have way clear of any debris or cue ball effects.

This is probably true in your state but the traffic violation has really evolved into a revenue generating venue, if in fact if it had ever deviated from being a revenue generating scheme at all. Differences of opinion are supposed to be settled in a "lower level" traffic court. The heads of the CA Highway Patrol have gone on record that the Highwya Patrol is so strapped for personnel that it ONLY has time for (non revenue generating) activities; such as drunk driving, accident scene, investigation of accidents, vehicle malfunctions, traffic accidents, felony stops etc. Of course to my mind, this is a good thing.

But on the off duty it remanins a revenue generating activity. Almost ALL CA state highway repair, maintenance, and construction projects sub-contract or whatever it is called, off duty highway patrol officers using STATE OWNED cars to buy police presence at job sites that need off duty CHP and STATE OWNED CHP cruisers . "Perfect" public and private revenue generating GIG.

oregonboy · May 2005

"Sounds to me like you left coasters are a cynical bunch."

Please don't throw all left coasters into the same bucket. There are some people who post on this board that I don't even bother to read... much less argue with. It's just not worth the frustration. Kind of like the old story about mud wrestling with a pig...

james

tazereli · May 2005

I don't think those numbers you listed go to any real complaint line

Regards,
Kyle

ruking1 · May 2005

Correct me if I am wrong but either Oregon or Washington employs unmarked police cars (armed with radar, obvious) in search of higher and higher traffic violation revenues. Plenty of times, I have seen vehicles ( any color any model GM/Ford vehicles mainly) parked in the center meridian of the N/S interstate ready to go north or south as the " radar gunning directions " take them.

kdshapiro · May 2005

"higher and higher traffic violation revenues"

Also known as the flagrant law violater?

ruking1 · May 2005

Out here they are sometimes referred to as quotas and speed traps? Sometimes it makes sense to turn on the CB radio and dial into (heavens) trucker's frequencies.

You can't say the Oregonians are not a welcoming bunch. They give SPECIAL consideration to "out of state'rs" or even foreigners (on the way to CN- Canada)

Well actually a lot of Oregonians think of CA and Californian's as the foreign invasion hordes.

jipster · May 2005

The deep gouges and proximity to the embankment indicate the Firebird was traveling at a slow speed. Looks like the community has a nice foot bridge though...at least until it is towed off. :P

explorerx4 · May 2005

oops, wrong clip.
this one is from in the car.

http://ler.serveftp.net/onelap/2005/day01/video/td01v02.wmv

euphonium · May 2005

Using the 4 ways disengages cruise just as tapping the brake does.

xwesx · May 2005

Ah, yes. But you know, it is sooooo inconvenient to pull a pin and remove them..... After all, most of these folks do tow a trailer at least once during the ownership period of the auto.

alfox · May 2005

Hmmm. I don't know if it does on mine - I'll have to check it out. Never ran into it I guess. I've used the flashers to back off tail-gaters many times, but maybe I've never done it with cruise set.

Interesting. I'll have to try it.

xwesx · May 2005

For the past couple of days, I have been wondering a bit about what motivates people to use the type of vehicle they use as a commuter rig. I don't know about the lower 48, but here in Fairbanks I see ALL shapes and sizes of vehicles used as commuters, to include my friend's restored M37 (top speed... about 45 mph but it will go faster if you are headed downhill!).

Yesterday and today, I saw a white '95 Tacoma standard cab with these HUGE 100% off-road mud-slinging tires. Why would anyone leave that type of tire on when driving on pavement?! Not only are they so noisy that they drown out my own car's road noise when he passes, but I swear I can actually see them wear down as he drives down the road..... Why not have a cheap set of rims/tires to swap out for commuting and save these $$$ sucking tires for their intended purpose? The truck was spotless, so I'm sure he doesn't have to pass through 2 miles of bog on his way home.....

Eh, I was pondering and chuckling about it, so I just thought I'd see what other people have seen out there as commuters..... :surprise:

ruking1 · May 2005

I am sure the reasons are multipled and as varied as there are people and products. In the case of your musing over the 95 Tacoma, I am sure at least part of it is self expression and a like of 4WD.

As was indicated at some point; whatever is chosen intersects with the wallet in some way. Even here there are a multitude of factors.

So for example for this owner to get a commute car like a Honda Civic, would most likely at least double his yearly operating and maintenance costs. I would even dare say (not using specific examples) that it would greatly increase his cost per mile. This is especially true since the average yearly mileage of most American drivers is 12,000 to 15,000 miles.So this guy is willing to pay to "express himself" and in a very narrow sense, this has no "practical value" As a practical value he can "commute". So in that sense, it is cheaper to use a vehicle you already have, rather than to go out and get the exact tool for the job i.e. Honda Civic.

xwesx · May 2005

Well certainly that is worth factoring, I have done it myself to determine whether getting a task-specific vehicle is worth the added expense. That's also part of the reason, I'm sure, why I see so many people driving huge gasoline engine trucks to work every day. They don't use the truck for anything special on these days, but for whatever reason they find it better (for them) to drive the truck rather than something more suited to the task.

What caught my eye about this little Tacoma, on the other hand, is that the tires are so ill-suited to the task and to say that changing them off for something more road-worthy for commuting is "easy" would be a gross understatement. A $6-800 investment over 3 years of use ( tires and rims, assuming 20K/yr on a 60,000 mile tire) is so cost effective that the any argument against it could only be for sheer laziness. Not that I truly care what tire he has on his truck.... I just cannot help being perplexed by it. :confuse:

He's expressing himself alright.....

ruking1 · May 2005

All right, no political jokes or Mr. Bates stuff!!

This is an interesting analysis. So for example, if you have a paid off truck, suv etc. If you do 12-15k. It is actually cheaper to get 15 mpg in the paid off truck scenario than it is to buy a brand new Civic. In fact buying a brand new Civic only becomes cost effective when 1. you have app 3x or 45 mpg difference (which it does not) or one drives many MORE miles than 12-15k per year.

So if that guy did 30k per year then it makes absolutely NO sense to commute with the Tacoma. The numbers are against him.

As for the spare set of tires, you might do it, I would do it, but........

akangl · May 2005

Not really on topic, but holy cow...........Another Alaskan??? I'm about 80 miles from Fairbanks and I work in Fairbanks. I commute in a little Focus ZX3, can't afford to work otherwise. Nice to see I'm not alone in this crazy place!! I do hear ya about the off-road tires, kinda crazy if you ask me, I see those kind of trucks all the time.

gee35coupe · May 2005

I mean if you have a 95 Tacoma, a used Civic wouldn't hurt ya much. Or a used something else. For the cost of some of those big ole tires you could buy a small something.

carlisimo · May 2005

What I don't understand is how someone can buy a Corvette and NOT commute in it. I'd want to be in it all day! Or any other "nice" car... heck, I worked with someone who had a Camry but didn't want to put miles on it, so she commuted in an Ion. And no, she didn't like the Ion at all, but she spent more time in it than the Camry.

I have a problem with lifted trucks. If they ever need to swerve around me, they're not going to be able to, and then they're going to decapitate me. Not to mention their headlights. I call that being inconsiderate. And yet the police go after lowered cars, but don't bother with the lifted trucks.

xrunner2 · May 2005

I have a problem with lifted trucks. If they ever need to swerve around me, they're not going to be able to, and then they're going to decapitate me. Not to mention their headlights. I call that being inconsiderate. And yet the police go after lowered cars, but don't bother with the lifted trucks.

I wonder about that also. Whenever I see one on the interstate, they seem very unstable. And, they appear to bob up and down a lot. Must be tough on the kidneys. The guys driving the very tall ones must realize they have got a handful and usually are poking along at 55 in the right lane. Unless one is a farmer, rancher, logger or similar, what could be the motivation to drive such a vehicle. Perhaps it is machismo.

fintail · May 2005

Big tall truck = small...um...brain, yeah thats it.

snakeweasel · May 2005

I see those trucks with the hugh off road tires often enough here around Chicago. I often wonder where the heck are they driving around here that they need those tires? Around here unless your in knee deep mud (which is rare) those type of tires are over kill, not to mention bad on the gas mileage.

snakeweasel · May 2005

What I don't understand is how someone can buy a Corvette and NOT commute in it.

If I owned a Corvette I wouldn't commute in it. For one it would drink three gallons of gas for my round trip commute (as oppsed to the two I aready use). Secondly it wouldn't be any fun driving around such a car where you cannot use it as intended. I mean my average speed is maybe 25 MPH and its in heavy traffic.

ruking1 · May 2005

Just using a commute car, say VW Jetta TDI vs Corvette, mpg 48-51 vs 24 . Tires 268 vs 1400. Tires will probably last 100,000-120,000 miles vs 56,000 miles.

But then again it may or may not be cheaper to do double duty.

carlisimo · May 2005

But all that work to save up for a Corvette, and then you only drive it an hour a week? It's not like you can use it as intended when traffic's light, either (at best, you're just starting to use third gear when you're extra-legal). Not to mention that if you can buy one, you probably aren't in a position to have to worry about the cost of gas and tires.

I'd just want to be in it all the time. But I'd commute in a Lotus Elise if I could, so maybe it's just me.

ruking1 · May 2005

This might be considerably way off topic, but the majority of Corvettes are not even close to being driven the 12-15k average yearly mileage. In Corvette circles, that kind of mileage is considered a "HIGH MILEAGE" deviant. Just to put some boundaries on it, app 34,000 are made per year.

snakeweasel · May 2005

Sorry, I can't see using a Corvette in traffic where a Yugo can keep up with it when there is a less expensive alternative available. Save the high end stuff for date nights and pleasure driving.

snakeweasel · May 2005

Yesterday I was driving down a 4 lane street, I was in the left lane doing about the speed limit (maybe a little more). The closest traffic in front of me was a truck in the right lane going slower than me but well ahead of me. When all of a sudden this Caddy flies by on the right and gets right behind the truck. At this point he is several cars lengths ahead of me and could have easily merged to the left and gone around the truck. Now I neither increase nor decrease my speed and slowly overtake the caddy, and as I do this guy gives me a dirty look. After I pass the truck this idiot passes the truck then me and as he does he honks his horn and gives me the finger.

Now mind you this guy had plenty of room to merge and plenty of time to do it in, he must have had the opportunity to do so for at least 30 seconds. And its not like I gunned it to keep him from getting around me.

john500 · May 2005

I am always intrigued by high end sports cars and luxury cars and why automobile manufacturers make cars that go so fast for sale in the US. My understanding is that Montana recently repealed the unlimited speed limit on rural highways. There are no roads in the US where you can travel over 75 mph legally (that's probably half of the top speed of a Corvette). I think street-legal automatic transmission cars should be governed to a top speed of 85 mph and manual transmission cars should have modified gear ratios after third gear for top speeds in the 85 mph range. The selling point for sports cars would then be based upon acceleration. Special track vehicles can be sold to enthusiasts with no top speed limiter for recreational activity (no vehicle registration would be available as the cars would only be used on private tracks). I remember being told a real-life story about some clown in Philadelphia who commuted to Atlantic City, NJ. Allegedly, he drove a Lamborghini and went 195 mph with his headlights out every day after work (midnight shift at a casino). The only reason he was caught was because the police were testing some new radar unit and some observant officers reported seeing a "glitch" reading of 195 mph at the same time every morning with the new radar unit. A roadblock was set up and then the cops put the pieces together.

ruking1 · May 2005

I think if you do that to the ubiquitous cars such as Civic, Camry, Cavalier etc etc, you'd be met with a storm of protest. Now if we did that to Highway Patrol....

snakeweasel · May 2005

I remember being told a real-life story about some clown in Philadelphia who commuted to Atlantic City, NJ. Allegedly, he drove a Lamborghini and went 195 mph with his headlights out every day after work (midnight shift at a casino).

this sounds to much of an urban legend. Sounds like a variation of the drug smuggling legend but without the night vision goggles. First of all driving at such a high speed at night even with the lights on is hard enough but to do it with the lights out? Secondly if the cops can't see you then other people cannot see you, sooner or later someone will cut right in front of you. Finally I would think that traffic in that area (even after midnight) would make it hard to keep up anywhere near such a speed.

In short I don't believe it.

xwesx · May 2005

I am so unmemorable that it hurts sometimes.....

Ruking1 - Again, I am in agreement. First, if the investment is not beneficial over a term of say, 3 years, then it is proabably best to stick with what you already have. Next, if a commute does not provide room for "fun," why not go with the most economical alternative available to you?

I am not an advocate of self-deprivation simply for the sake of increased gas mileage or "saving" mileage on a car of preference. If you want a car to last 20 years, then get a car that can last that long with good maintenance and 12-15K miles per year. My car is 10 years old come August with 184K on it now, and I plan to have it as my main source of transportation for another 3 years. With a ho-hum 25 mpg and maintenance at about $1500 per year, that's a better deal than buying something else. I have also considered motorcycle transportation during the summer months (mid-april to mid-september, maximum), but with the cost of the machine and insurance, as well as the dependency on weather conditions, it has not presented itself as a viable option as of yet. Anyway, there is really no point in owning a non-antique car unless you plan to use it. I cannot really see a Toyota Camry ever becoming a "classic," but then again there are probably a lot of classics out there that heard the same lines when they were new.

Kirstie_H · May 2005

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h

xrunner2 · May 2005

Over last 4-5 years, have seen many drivers in cars having a cloudy plastic (or glass?) cover over the rear license plate. Can barely read the characters on the plate. Today I saw a woman driving a Hunday SUV with a smoke colored plastic (or maybe glass) cover over rear plate. Could not make out a single number or letter. At next traffic light, rolled down window and said to her that her plate was unreadable and had something obsuring it. She said thanks.

What is purpose for this camouflage? Maybe to evade camera detection at traffic light intersections?

Stopping these cars would be good revenue for cities all over US. Police could stop them plus they could check out the car interior and trunk of these perps. Fine should be $1000.

carlisimo · May 2005

I can't drive eighty-five.
(ok I'm exaggerating; I usually do drive 85 when I'm not having a busy day)

Interesting idea though. That sort of gearing would give our cars insane acceleration!

==

As for the covered license plates... I've heard that they try to deflect laser or radar signals. They don't, as far as I've heard, but I'm not surprised that people buy into it. Sounds like they'd work against cameras though. As much as I fear red light runners, I'm not very trusting of those cameras so I'm going to have to disagree with your $1000 fine.

==

Last words on the nice car for commuting, since it's not really on-topic:

It's inconsiderate to deny us normalfolk the sight of a Corvette during our commute!
But seriously, while a Corvette wouldn't be much fun in traffic, I don't see how it would be worse than an economy car. You can always have tiny bursts of fun here and there... I do. Wakes me up in time for work.

kdshapiro · May 2005

NJ is way ahead of you. There are laws on the books addressing these issues.

The lady with the unreadable plates should be stopped and have her car towed.

Maybe our friend ruking1 would agree it's a good revenue generating opportunity.

Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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