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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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    badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    If you reread your own post #1590, you said that DC minivans were clones of Windstars. By definition, that means that DC copied Ford.

    Obviously that is not the case and now you seem to be agreeing that Ford copied DC.

    So do we both agree that Ford and all the other manufacturers in the minivan market have been using Chrysler/DaimlerChrysler as the one to copy, and that until only recently, all of them have fallen far short?
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I like the "Espace" type of van like that Fiat. Tall, boxy 5 seaters. The 5 speed manual tranny would be a plus too (I think - it's been 4 years now since I had a stick).

    Steve
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    hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    VW is bringing back the bus, the vultures weren't buying the yellow bug thing. The new (old) bus looks more like a "twinkie"
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    crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    Car and Driver used to calculate how many cases of soft drinks a van could have. Which van would hold the most Twinkies?
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    crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    I believed that I mentioned "Van" I have already had pointed out to me that nobody but me would accept the microvan designation for the PT Cruiser.

    Anyways, I think any of the vehicles would hold more twinkies than I could reasonably eat in a day.
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Had the pleasure of taking my ugly, box-like, drab coloured Ody on a trip this past week. For those of you who have never felt a Honda inspired 240 hp VTEC kick in (ahemmm, Adam) let me just say... awesome. I was behind a guy doing 45 on a two lane hwy when I kicked it down a bit when it was safe to pass. The tranny dropped down a gear or two and the VTEC kicked in - man the van haulz you know what. Whammy's right - it turns pretty tight too. Complaints so far - none.

    Hayneldan - you're big into facts. I also do a bit of research in my job. Very dangerous to draw correlations from web chat rooms. Not a very valid source of accurate statistical information. Do you really think that because the Honda Problems board has more posts in it than the DC Problems board, one can infer that Honda has more problems with their vans (statistically speaking)?
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    dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    I gotta admit, while I like then engine in my T&C, it is fun to drop the pedal in my son's Civic EX and watch the tac rev and the car's engine litterally kick in and zoom off.

    Honestly, I like Honda and even the styling doesn't bother me. They just need to add an ultra luxury edition and I'd get it.

    But since they don't, the MDX will soot my needs fine.
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    dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Odyssey carry more Twinkie in magic well than Crkeehn PTC carry whole car

    What would be even better Honda could put a PTC behind the 3rd seat like Cadillac does with the EXT truck, and then hook a towbar to the DC van and pull it behind it like they used to do in the Ford/Chevy truck ad's.
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    "For those of you who have never felt a Honda inspired 240 hp VTEC kick in (ahemmm, Adam) let me just say... awesome."

    After reading that exhilarating post the blood is rushing through my veins and my heart is pounding! How so much I yearn to drive a boxy, boring, ugly Honda Odyssey with a 12k red line RPM VTEC engine!!!

    I'm no stranger to VTEC. My friends Honda Accord coupe is fun to drive. But you have to floor it and rev all the way to 6.5k RPMs to get any real power. That's not the case in my van...

    If you want to talk about having fun driving a MINIVAN, Id much rather have a Grand Caravan ES with the Autostick transmission, heavy-duty suspension, 17 inch chrome wheels, and torquey 3.8 V6 over the drab tin can they call the Odyssey.
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    rms41rms41 Member Posts: 80
    Adam,
    I'm starting to get concerned about you. When I was your age (about 43 years ago as I'm 60) it was very uncool to like any vehicle that had more than 2 doors. Sure, I had to drive dad's big ol' mercury with four doors until I could afford my own first car, a '56 Ford Victoria coupe. But it wasn't cool. You should be hanging out in a forum for Mustangs or Sebrings or maybe, dare I say it, an Accord coupe :).
    ALL minivans are boring (but useful).
    Richard
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    DC owners not like Ody rear end so much. Maybe see too many from behind and grow tired of view. Torquey 3.8 no match for VTEC. No need to push 6.5K to get response. Maybe should drive before critique eh?
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    hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Nope, to imply that would put me in the category of some uninformed posters. The title of my post was "Interesting data" Posters should read both boards to read what both owners are saying about their vans. Just trying to get a little "balance" on this board, since some Odyssey owners do nothing but knock the DC products with little or no automotive knowledge.
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    I don't need you or anyone else to tell me where I'm supposed to be. But since you have taken it upon yourself to do so, I'll respond in kind. At the old ago of 60 I'd think you should be in the Buick and Cadillac message boards instead of here with the minivans. Say, what do you think of that sporty 2003 Park Avenue?
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Please, tell me what advanced automotive knowledge I lack that I absolutely need to make legitimate comments here in the MINIVANS message boards. Please tell me, because I'm dying to know. What great knowledge do you posses about cars that makes your opinion so smart and credible? I ask this because I know more about automobiles than about half of the people who buy cars, and I'd be pretty comfortable saying the same about most other people here on these boards.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Don't feed the trolls, Adam :-)

    Steve
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    crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    In a beltway traffic Jam, the Odyssey and the DC van are all moving the same speed. Add a fender bender on the side and the Odyssey and DC van are NOT moving at the same speed.
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    rms41rms41 Member Posts: 80
    I wasn't trying to be nasty. I just thought it odd for someone of your age to have such a fascination for minivans. BTW, my current vehicle is a Pilot (too many doors but useful). My previous two cars were a '99 Accord coupe and a '93 Dodge Stealth. I still believe the best looking vehicles have two doors but I gave in to practicality and got the Pilot. As far as Buicks and Cadillacs go, I'm still too young (the average age of buyers of those two is even older than me!). I've been checking this board because my daughter is shopping for a minivan.
    Richard
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Wow! Feeling a little defensive these days. Automotive knowledge, or lack there of, comes from many sources. Industry publications, trade shows, television programs, etc. I'm glad you are so confident in your automotive prowess but I hardly think you have a great deal of practical, first hand experience in evaluating automobiles based purely on your age. This is not a knock against you, just a fact. You continually boast about the superiority of your DC minivan, yet you have driven how many of the competition's vehicles (driven, not driven in)? Just wondering what the basis of your comparison is as I have from the start.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    I declare everyone's argument in this thread baseless and irrelevant. Get a real minivan - the KIA Sedona! Muahahahahaha!!!

    Legal Disclaimer: Poster of this message is not a KIA owner, nor does he endorse the purchase, use, or viewing of said vehicle. KIA Sephia is a registered trademark of KIA, Korea, and should not be mistakenned for a Ford Windstar.
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Your right that I probably don't know as much about automobiles as you do. But I would be willing to bet I could find about a dozen teenage friends who are my age that know alot more about cars than you do. Age isn't anything but a number...
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "But I would be willing to bet I could find about a dozen teenage friends who are my age that know alot more about cars than you do. Age isn't anything but a number..." - 4adodge

    Not fact again, merely conjecture. I'll bet I could find, a guy I know, it feels like, I just know - these are all really just opinions, not facts. DC vs. Honda should be about facts and real world driving impressions and observations. How is it that almost every auto publication and web site, including this one, says the Odyssey is superior to the competition. In their minivan comparison, Edmunds even went on to say the Ody would have beaten the competition if it cost MORE (I forget the exact figure they used - thousands, pardon me). You dismiss these opinions but are very quick to offer up your own. I notice you're also inclined to agree with most reviews when it suits you and the review compliments form, function or features of DC products. Many of the opinions expressed by posters on this board are just that - opinions. That is why I have chosen to lampoon it in the past and will probably continue to do so, Host's patience permitting, until there is some useful discussion based on fact and real world driving impressions.

    PS - I have owned a number of autos and have done quite a bit of the back yard auto mechanic thing in my younger days. I did a ground-up, frame off resto on a 62 Vette. I know a bit about cars - maybe more, maybe less than your friends. Who knows, who cares. "Age isn't anything but a number" - Anna Nicole Smith to her 90 year old husband as he was signing his last Will and Testament.
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Sorry, I forgot I was speaking to the supreme automotive expert. I guess I should better know my place next time. You seem to dislike everyones opinion but your own or those of all the publications who have raved about the Honda Odyssey. But guess what? Motortrend, Car and Driver, Edmunds, they are only passing their opinions in their review just as we are here on these message boards. There is no difference at all. In fact, some would argue this is a better place to find good info on cars because its being written by the consumer, not a publication that may be pressured into thinking one way or another.

    Most people buy cars based on opinion, perhaps even more than they do fact. The Honda Odyssey has a 240hp engine while the Dodge Grand Caravan only has 215 but the buyer might think the Grand Caravan has more responsive acceleration, or vice versa, despite the numbers. A buyer might also buy one car over another because they like the interior feel better or even the choices of exterior colors, which plays a big role in some people's buying decision. All of those issues are based on opinion, not what some publisher has to say.

    Just about everything that is said here is based on opinion, even most of your statements. And next time you post something I'll remind you of that and point to clear examples in your text.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Moving along... anyone have any other notes to compare?

    Steve
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    I think the Dodge Caravan is the most attractive minivan on the market, especially when compared to the Honda Odyssey.

    Is that not a valid statement? I think it is. Alot of people buy cars mainly because of looks. Why buy it if it doesn't fit your style or is UGLY? The Pontiac Aztec is a perfect example. Whether or not you agree is a different matter...
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    pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    GC is more comfortable and better designed; the Honda gear shift in the dash is primitive. DC also offers more paint colors. BTW, has anyone seen a Havasu Blue!!
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    pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    Just to set the record straight, the Honda Odyssey does not have a gear shift in the dash any more than a DC van has one. BTW I traded in a 96 DC van on the 99 Odyssey I now drive. I have rented and driven quite a few late model DC vans and a Windstar.
    Personal experience is no substitute for conjecture, opinion, and misinformation.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Didn't Honda "shorten" the gear shift lever so it would be less intrusive on the radio knobs or whatever on the dash? I don't remember it being a problem on my test drive, but that was 4 years ago...

    Steve
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    maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    At least with the part that looks are totally subjective. Personally I think the Odyssey is better looking than the T&C or GC. As far as DC vans go I have to give the edge to the T&C over the GC. As far as colors, does the T&C offer any other cloth interior color than tan? A few years ago they even had the tan cloth interior teamed up with silver exterior.
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    pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    The Honda EX has radio functions on the steering wheel The Honda Civic SE-R has a gear shift low in the dash, not on the floor. It is a 5 speed manual. I believe that is what one of the other poster was referring
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, the steering wheel controls are the way to go (got them on my Quest). It was a '99 LX I test drove and I don't remember whether it had them or not. Mostly I had the radio off so I could hear any road noise going by jersey barriers, etc. People used to comment about the shifter position but I don't recall anyone complaining lately.

    Steve
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Styling is so subjective - so here's my differing opinion.

    I found the Odyssey exterior styling better than that of the DC - maybe it is because I had grown so used to seeing so many DC minivans out on the road, but I prefer the Ody's overall styling.

    As for the interior fit and finish, I found the DC typical of American interiors - overly huge buttons that haven't changed since the 1970s/80s. The styling really turned me off, and the fit and finish wasn't there compared to the Ody. A fair number of the plastic mouldings I saw (from door locks to switches) had rough uneven edges.

    The layout of the DC is very well thought out, however, and doesn't look as sparse as the Odyssey's. Yes, the Ody gear shift positioning blocks some audio controls.

    When it came down to buying a minivan, we only looked at two minivans, the DC and the Odyssey. It really boiled down to safety, reliability, fit and finish, driving experience and convenience.

    The Ody scored higher on safety (according to NHTSA and IIHS studies at that time).
    The Ody was too new to guage the overall reliability, but it didn't appear to have the tranny failures endemic to DCs.
    I liked the more updated, and refined interior fit and finish (personal prefference).
    The Ody drove like a car, and so did the DC - that was a tie.
    As for convenience, I'm a wimp. There's no way I'm lugging that heavy third row seat out of the minivan! Odyssey.

    Many arguments can be made about the tranny problems (at least two years ago). I don't know if it was ever resolved. Some will also argue that the Ody has tranny problems too, but those reports are very few and far in between.

    Maroon looks great on the DC, the Ody's style doesn't lend itself well to a wide variety of colors.
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    pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    The LX does not have radio functions on the steering wheel. They didn't in 99 and are not indicated for 03, so it's pretty safe to say they never did. I do remember some auto reviews about the introduction of the 99, that complained that the gear shift was almost to the radio knobs. But they all got EX's to review. I guess the radio functions on the steering wheel in a van was unusual for 99 (at least to the reviewers.)
    My 96 DC did not have radio controls on the steering wheel nor did any of those that I rented. Rentals generally have minimum extra features though. The radios in rentals are not the infinity sound system, for example. I had to admit the standard sound system in the Windstar was better than the standard DC radio. It also had the maximum front seat rearward travel, accommodating tall drivers better than the DC or Odyssey. The rest of it was far behind both. I rented it with 7 miles on it. It was brand new and I thought the steering was very sloppy compared to the DC or Odyssey.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I really had bad luck shopping most of these brands - I just came out of a Voyager that had 3 head gasket fixes in 70,000 miles, all covered under warranty, and DC had gone back to the 3/36 drivetrain warranty in '99, so I was a bit dubious in the first place. Plus the salesguy we got had started work that am and had no clue about his stock. The various options for DC vans were a bit overwhelming then too.

    My nearest Windstar dealer at the time was Cal Worthington, of Johnny Carson satire fame. Nothing like pulling in to the dealer and having three! salesguys running out to "greet" you. We did like the interior although we preferred the SWB length of the Voyager we were trading in.

    The Honda dealer was bizzarro world. I drew a recent Russian emigree salesguy whose English was pretty good for having arrived to the States 8 months earlier. The test drive went well and although my wife wasn't convinced (too big mostly), I liked the LX enough to talk dollars. I was ok with MSRP and the emigree's "partner" asked me if I'd buy it for that. I told him I'd need another test drive but probably so. (This was into the second hour - my wife had to go back to work 15 minutes earlier).

    Anyway, I take it out for another spin with the emigree, and I go to my house. We go in and I find my checkbook and head back to the dealer and I'm thinking I've found my new van. On the drive back the emigree asks if I know where to score some dope! I had long hair and a beard at the time, but every Alaskan man has long hair and a beard. Huh?!?

    At the dealer, the emigree's buddy started making noises about how close to MSRP they could come, and in addition to the tagteam, he said he'd need to go talk to his manager. So I said no thanks and walked, with the emigree chasing me out of the parking lot.

    The Toyota dealer was ok, but pretty proud of the Siennas. The MPV was still in SUV/4 door mode so didn't shop those hard. Didn't shop GM - been years since my family had driven Buicks and a GMC pickup so the triplets really didn't get on my radar.

    Wound up with a straight shooting Nissan salesguy at a dealer that'd been sued by the Attorney General for "fraud" the year before (better drivetrain warranty on the Quest than the Villagers), and we did a deal there. Never got handed off. I did do the numbers via fax so I'd have stuff in writing ;-)

    Amazing the difference a salesperson can make. Those of you in markets with more than one dealership to chose from, count your blessings. When I was shopping, my comparison options were an 8 hour drive to Fairbanks or a 5 hour flight to Seattle. And people wonder why we only trade cars once a decade or so....

    Steve
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Styling is subjective. There, I said it, I agree with 4adodge! And I like the looks of the ODY better cuz it's different. DC looks OK but I'm personally a little weary of seeing them.

    I own an 02 ODY EX. There is no intrusion of the gear shift lever into the radio function button area. Honda shortened the lever a bit in 02. I would imagine this design carries through to 03 as well.

    As for pluto's remarks about the DC being more comfortable, that is subjective as well. I've driven both and to me, the ODY is more comfortable. I'm 6'4" and the DC "A" pillar rested on my left temple. I had to tuck my head to enter and exit the vehicle. I sit much better in the ODY. I found it's handeling to be superior (again, subjective). In addition, the magic seat is very functional. I was on a vacation all last week with my family and mother in law. She took her own car because she wanted to smoke and take her time on the trip. Once we got to our destination, I unpacked the van, put up the seat, and we only had to take one vehicle to bum around with (minus the smokes!). You could make the same argument for the DC seats. I know folks in some parts of the country who park the seats on the front porch when they're not in use in the van. What a bonus - a porch seat!
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I really wanted to be extra frugal and buy used, but one van owner met us at a Fred Meyer parking lot and I wound up giving him a jump. We drove 30 minutes to look at a V6 Caravan that wound up being an obvious 4 when I popped the hood. After a few run-ins like that, my wife threw cold water on buying used, although there was one family with a few month old Sienna that they wanted to sell to get a down payment to buy a house with. Came real close to to getting that one....

    Thanks for the shift lever shortening confirmation, Bdaddy. And I left my middle bench seat on my porch when we sold our house in '99 and left town :-)

    Steve
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    pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I put my DC rear seat in the garage the two times I took it out.
    I had 3 freezers on my front porch. One of them would have worked, if we had electricity.
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    maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    I had 3 freezers on my front porch.

    Was that on the double-wide?
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    It's funny seeing what kind of people you run into when you buy used. Some are really honest, and others really hide their reasoning behind the sale. One guy tried to sell us a used Tercel years ago - it seemed okay till the mechanic told us it had a bum engine-mount, which essentially made the car worthless.

    I avoid buying used if I could get away with it. Although one takes a financial bloodbath with the new car depreciation, my family holds onto their cars for a long time - and you can't tell how well a person broke in their cars, or how well it had been maintained to the point of sale.
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There's a funny thread recently in Real World Trade-In Values (or maybe it was Ask A Car Dealer?) over on the News & Views board about buying a Digital Odometer Speedometer calibration Tool off eBay. If that one year old BMW looks "brand new" and only has 3,000 miles on it, you may want to say "hmmmm."



    Steve

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    pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    The Odifferous gear indicator was somewhere on the dash where it was hard to see. Together with the hard, lumpy seat I found this van an underwhelming ride. Add the attitude of the Honda sharks posing as salespeople I would recommend anyone avoid this van which is an embarrasment to Honda. I counted 15 different lenses/lights on the back, not my idea of good design but Honda lovers will no doubt have an explanation for this ridiculous feature.
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    crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    There is no such thing as "the" perfect van. All vehicles are compromises.

    There is no shame in liking Hondas, likewise there is no shame in liking DC, Mazda, Nissan or Toyota. I even liked my Windstar while I owned it. It fulfilled its function reliably for me and was a very comfortable vehicle.

    There seems to be developing here, an attitude that if you don't agree with me, that you're wrong. In most cases that is not correct. The only case in which the above statement is true, is any statement made by me, personally.

    Carl
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Adam,
    I took home a used 2000 T&C and let my wife drive it around for a while - didn't like it. I also drove a new 02 T&C and then a DGC-EX. Same problems with the A-pillar. Both of the new vehicles had the 3.8 and they could not touch the VTEC. Turning radius on the ODY was much tighter, suspension firmer (rougher ride to some - I prefered the tighter handeling which consisted of less body roll and sway, a firm, responsive wheel - but that's my subjective opinion). I was used to Japanese car handeling as I had previously owned an Acura. The DGC-EX would have been fine by me - they were offering it at MSRP at the time but with 0% financing. Boss said no and I'm glad she did. The DC would have been a compromise when the Honda is what we really wanted. I refinanced my home at the time to get locked into a low (5.9%) interest rate and rolled a few extra $$ into it to buy the van. With the tax deduction factored into the loan my APR is relatively low. To each his own.
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    4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    I've never driven a Honda Odyssey. The only Odyssey I've been in is my cousins 1999 night blue LX which was one of the first available in the San Francisco Bay Area. They purchased it in the first few weeks of 1999. I don't even think you can compare the interior of our Town & Country LX to the Odyssey LX. They are in two different classes. The Ody LX interior looks cheap and boring to me and isn't very nice on the eyes. However, I must say the Odyssey EX-NAV with the leather interior looks very nice and comfortable, and also high tech with that nice NAV screen. But I still don't think it has the class and luxury of the Town & Country LXi/Limited interiors.
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    maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    but class and Chrysler are worlds apart. A leather Lazy-boy is luxurious but it ain't classy.
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    c1rybickc1rybick Member Posts: 35
    To those who can't really agree on which van looks better, the current GC or Ody, I say that the 96-97 Grand Caravans are the best looking minivans ever made. We own a 1997 Grand Caravan ES in candy apple red, all the options but leather, AWD, and the factory roofrack. The quad command seating, rear a/c, Infinity stereo (not great but not bad), and trailer towing pkg (back then, THE best value of any of the options) make it a keeper...for a while more, at least. Both me and my sister are in college now and we don't need a van anymore, I wish Mom'd sell it and buy a Passat, but oh well... ;)

    It has slightly over 100,000 miles on it and has done well, although once some plastic belt in the engine broke right as the engine was turned off and Mom had to have it towed. If DamilerChrysler could only get the build quality up to the level of Honda /Toyota, they'd kill Ford and GM.

    The GC is very well thought out, everything inside works well, and it handles and drives very well (never driven an Ody, but from the reports I've read the GC [ours at least] handles better).

    It's subjective, too, but our van has a very tight turning radius for something as big as it is. It probably doesn't have a smaller turning circle than my 95 Camry, but it sure seems be less, proportionally based upon wheelbase, at least.

    It also goes just fine with 2 canoes (1 a 17' Old Town Tripper the other some barge looking thing, not ours) on top. Mom had the shop install 4 small raingutters on the roof (not right on the edge, though, so as not to go through the rear a/c tunnels) and she built a roofrack herself for the canoes (Yakimas etc cost too much).

    And finally, yes that back seat is heavy, but my 135-140 lb or so 53 year old mother can get it in and out of the back by herself when she has to. Not that I'm saying anything or nuthin,' but my mother's an emancipated woman and she does it just fine, herself (although of course she normally gets someone to help if anyone's around).

    But I will say this, my sister has a 97 Honda Civic EX sedan with VTEC and a 5-speed, and dang that thing is sweet at 7000 rpm. But I'll take American low end torque for a minivan over VTEC (although that's really conjecture b/c our van only has like 166/168 something like that HP (3.8) and it moves just fine, no need for 240 ponies). The van averages ~22 MPG with a 17 mile commute each way and partly in city traffic (I like the trip computer with MPG, temp, compass heading, etc)

    By the way, for all of you people out there glad to be paying MSRP for an Odyssey, Mom paid $500 over the invoice (yes they let her see the factory invoice) and I think dealer holdback was 2% back then, don't really remember. It was ordered from the factory, not gotten from the lot becasue Mom wanted specific options (Candy Apple Red paint, trailer towing pkg, no factory roofrack, etc). Total cost: $28,765.13 including tax, title, etc.

    I'm not trying to slam Hondas or anything, besides I really like my sister's Civic (too small and too low to the ground for me, though). Back then Chrysler's minivans were the way to go (Windstar didn't hold enough and to quote my mother, "it looks like a waddling woman with big hips." Mom ordered the van in August of 1996 and it arrived right before Halloween of that year.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I made some roof rack brackets for my old Tercel and non-Yakima racks. Worked great for years and years. Yak (and probably Thule) do make pre-bent brackets that you can buy and bolt on as well - the intended use is for pickup camper shells, but they'd work fine on a MV. You just have to be willing to put a few holes in the sheet metal. I came close to doing this with my '99 Quest but I had a friend who sold Yak stuff so I got a deal.


    Everyone else, there's an interesting letter and reply in August's Letters to the Editors.




    Steve

    Host

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    cnybrocnybro Member Posts: 29
    Have a 2000 LX with 36K miles. I love the powertrain - exceptional engineering. Is my Odyssey perfect? No. A few rattles from a seat and sliding door I'm trying to locate, which is not very Honda like. However, I'll take that any day over inferior engineered under hood components. Is my LX luxurious? No. But I have two boys and this thing takes a beating plus I only paid $23,315 + TTL brand new back in Nov 99. Sure, you pay sticker for the Honda - so what, it's still the same price you would pay for a deeply discounted DC/Ford van. The MSRP thing has been beat to death. In the long haul, it's my feeling that you will be sinking more money into repairs on the DC or Ford van.

    After just sinking $1,300 into a new a/c system on my pristine 96 Ford Taurus, I'm sticking with imports from now on. American car makers have all the features down perfectly, but the quality is still sub-par to the Asian competition.
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    c1rybickc1rybick Member Posts: 35
    That's sort of what the racks are. On each rack (there are two, 1 front/1 back, no need for longitudal runners because canoes don't need it), there are 2 metal struts that clamp onto the artificial rain gutters on the roof. Two each pair of those Mom bolted a strip of wood and covered it with hard foam. Then she drilled um...eyebolts? I'm not sure what they're called, but they have big rings to tie down the canoes with, side to side.

    Usually it's just our canoe, but even two ride beautifully on top of the van. I'm sure the stiffer, load-leveling suspension helps this.
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    bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "Usually it's just our canoe, but even two ride beautifully on top of the van. I'm sure the stiffer, load-leveling suspension helps this." - c1rybick

    It probably has more to do with aerodynamics. The jelly belly shape of the van combined with the pointed bow, flat hull design of the canoe, creates a downdraft which helps to "push" the cargo onto the professionally engineered roof racks, thus creating better tire adhesion to the asphalt or concrete driving surface.

    All kidding aside, sounds like your mom is a real do-it-yourselfer. I admire her for that! You should be proud.
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