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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Lee B.
What States, and how much per state was given Japanese car builders ?
BTW Chrysler is now a foreign car CO. Daimler bailed it out a second time.
First: Honda's legendary quality. I have not been disapointed. 58,000 miles and still on the original set of front brake pads. Not keeping score, but it seems Ford and Chrysler are constantly recalling vehicles for warranty campaigns.
Second: Honda's loyalty to it's customers. Huh, you say? Honda does not sell vehicles to Commerical Fleets, Car Rental companies ect. So when I go to trade it in, I will get a substantially higher trade in percentage because the market is not flooded with used Honda vehicles. Everybody and their brother is driving DC's and Windstar's. Just be prepared to be shafted come trade in time. The Blue Book, Black Book prices for these vehicles are inaccurate by a wide margin if you decide to trade when a fleet or rental car company unloads their used vehicles in your market.
BTW my 99 had 3 recalls. They also extended the warranty on the throttle body because of many owner experienced problems. Legendary Honda Reliabilty my rosy red.
Something else interesting happened today as well. After driving the Limited, I saw a 2001 Ody EX with leather on the lot. I sat in it and it seemed downright spartan when compared to the Limited. I must like the white gages, the wood grain dash and the suede accents more than I thought. I had heard others talking about that but had never experienced it. I never put much stock in those statements until today.
Am I crazy??? Will a TC Limited fall apart at 120K miles? What kind of miles have some of you seen put on yours?
All in all, I've been very happy with the vehicle...hope this helps.
BTW, all this stuff occured during the first year of ownership. During the second year, the rear window wiper quit (burned out motor), and the CD player stopped working (the radio head unit was replaced, under warranty of course).
In spite of these problems, I still enjoyed driving the Ody and the dealer was very understanding and sympathetic, always offering me a loaner car while the Ody was in for repair. If you recall my previous post, I was considering buying another Ody when ours was totaled last April. My neighbor has had her '02 for about a year and she has only had two minor problems (sliding door and battery replacement).
BTW, my '02 T&C just turned 12K miles (9 months old) and I have not had A SINGLE PROBLEM with it. It might be that my Ody was a particularly bad one and that I've just been lucky so far with the DC van, but so be it (I think I'll quit now so I don't jinx the Chrysler).
The TC as far as my opinion goes has a much nicer ride than the Odyssey The engine is smooth (3.8L)and the transmission responsive under the conditions a minivan would be used under. The TC has lower wind and road noise. The interior is fairly well designed with nice materials being used in most places. The build quality could be better as margins are not always uniform.
The downfall of the TC is the lack of a "magic" 3rd row seat and long term reliability. The second factor being of major importance to most consumers. DCX claims to have have made improvements in this area.
Most reviews by major magazines indicate that the Odyssey is the clear winner though in my opinion besides the trick 3rd row seat the TC is actually a nicer vehicle to drive on a daily basis.
Chime in with your opinions.
BTW I have owned Honda cars all my life. I have a 1998 Accord with the 3.0L VTEC. It is a smooth engine but lacks torque off the line. I believe that this same engine has been re-sized for application in the Odyssey.
There is no doubt that the Honda has a stiffer ride, and the TC is just a more cushy ride. I'm sure for some people it will just come down to what ride they prefer for thousands of miles, but of course people are also counting on the reliability of a Honda vehicle. I'm personally hoping to get 200K out of my vehicle, but I've been forewarned by my mechanic (independent) that the Chrysler/Dodge minivans oftentimes experience failed transmissions around 125K. I've also heard from some that around 125K the vehicle starts nickel and diming you to death. I do like the looks of the Honda. I too have previously owned a Honda (1989 Honda accord coupe) and was very happy with it. I've also had a Mercury Villager, but needed a larger minivan. I guess I've pretty much decided to wait and see what Toyota brings out in August.
At the time of my purchase, a Dodge Grand Caravan EX went for about the same as the Honda - dealers were not moving from MSRP on either vehicle. Resale value was the final determinant.
I realize that there is another forum for this topic, but I am curious as to the mileage interval at which DC owners are performing the transmission service. I think every 30K seems about right, but the owner's manual recommends 48K for "severe use" and no service at all for "normal use".
Also, how about the service available from the dealer that claims to suck every drop of old fluid out of the trans., as opposed to simply performing a drain/refil/filter change?
Any comments /feedback would be most welcome.
The only thing I faithfully do is have the oil changed every 3000-4000 miles and put gas in it! I might add I've always used the same oil in all three of these vehicles (though it probably doesn't really matter!)
replace trans at 40K
replace trans at 60K
As far as sucking out the fluid the whole thing sucks!
My next trans replacement will include the whole van which I will donate to Goodwill or any other charity that will tow it off my property!
BTW, I know of someone whose tranny went south at only 18K miles (it was a '98 Grand Caravan), but... it was because his sixteen year-old son "accidentally" shifted the transmission into reverse at 60 MPH!
Can you believe the dealer replaced the trans. under warranty??? They actually did.
Go figure.
As I understand it most auto trans won't go into reverse while going forward after a certain speed, even thought the gear shift will. Maybe thats why.
Like I said, I haven't tried doing it, and maybe she has it wrong, maybe you can just shift it in drive and it will roll, I'm not certain about reverse.
I'm hoping she has it wrong!
Let's face it, most people who bought the Honda never even test drove one..there were none on the lots.
The fact that so many people bought an expensive minivan without a test drive (or in many cases ever seeing one) has to be due to Honda reliability/reputation vs. Chrysler reliability/reputation.
Chrysler makes a very nice minivan, they are just not designed to last. Maybe,, as some have suggested, things have changed at Chrysler. Maybe now the vans are better, since they have been redesigned. However, in 1996, I was told by many sources that Chrysler had solved all of their reliability problems (tanny, electrical, etc.) with the new redesign. Well, they didn't. Only time will tell, and I'm not willing to take that gamble on my next purchase.
We were very happy for about 75-80K miles (~5 years), then things went downhill fast. Our mechanic has finally told us to get rid of the van (it's a 96 btw) and buy a Honda.
I still think the design is very nice. It's a well thought out mini, with lots of options.
However, our next will be a Honda.
If everyone thinks it's so reliable why do they buy a pricey extended warranty?? Maybe Honda hasn't solved all it's reliability problems, either!
Concerning the warranty, I'm not sure if you can draw a lot of conclusions. Many people will buy warranties for the peace of mind they deliver. When buying a +$30K vehicle, another ~$800 is not that much more per payment.
I wish I would have bought the extended warranty on my Dodge. Between power window motors (4), various bits and pieces of the engine, and the transmission, I would have come out way ahead.
I think I have finally decided on which minivan is best for my family. I want to get the following:
Make/Model: 2001 T&C Limited
Miles : less than 30K
Color : Gold
Options : Split rear bench, TV/DVD system
Now all I need to do is find one. I had an idea and thus am posting here for advise. Does anyone know how to get information on leases that will be returned this year? I would love to talk to someone that is planning on returning the van I am interested in and buy it from them at a fair price (more than what the dealer says the residual is but less than what it will be marked up to in the retail market). I would be willing to pay between the trade-in and private party price as described by Edmunds TMV. I hope this turns into an easy win/win for both parties.
If anyone has any leads for me, please let me know.
Thanks,
Bo
My '02 T&C has been completely trouble-free so far (13K miles), whereas my '00 Ody (totaled last April) had numerous problems during the first year that required repeated visits to the dealer for correction. The reason I didn't buy another one, however, is because the dealers in my area are still selling them at "full gouge" whereas DC offers huge discounts on their vans.
Having experience with both vans in a relatively short time, I honestly can't recommend one over the other. If you're going to spend $30K on either of these vehicles, check each one out thoroughly, buy the one that suits you best, and enjoy it. That's what I did. If my T&C falls apart at 100K miles, I'll worry about it then - not now.
I have till date owned 3 Honda's and have a Nissan Maxima closing on to 100K. I hope to take it to 200K but expect wear and tear related maintenance costs along way.
granted, these figures are on older 4-cyl. engines, the upper end probably being man. trannys and the lower end prob. being autos. i dont know if that included any 6-cyl.
For this price there should be more substance like
lights on the drive window and lock controls, leather steering wheel. Leather seats that give you more support, better radio and speakers. My biggest complaints are that there is no middle storage for anything and the gas milage is very poor. The tray is a waist. Anything let on it goes flying when you start or stop. On the whole, I think the ergonomics of the car stink.
I only hope is that I dont have the problems that DC vans seem to have.
The real question is - is your wife the primary driver and does she like it? If the answer is yes to both, then my .02 is to grin and bear it :-)
Steve, Host
And if she isn't happy, you'll have no experience. They never let you forget.
I have been driving the van during the week, my wife on the weekends getting the kids to ball games. She is still fixed on the perceived Honda quality. I have owned many cars during my life This is the costliest car I have owned and the one that I have the least happy with.
2004 Sienna
*best features of the three (best of the other two combined)
*worst pricing
*worst ride (relative to the other two, still a nice ride though it just rode like it was bigger, I prefer a more sporty ride)
*better gas mileage than the other two
*best reliability (so I read)
2003 Odyssey
*least amount of bells and whistles,
*stark interior (compared to the other two)
*great ride
*great engine (best of the three)
*ugliest appearence
*no split seats in third row
*can't manually close power doors
*2nd best reliability (so I read)
2003 Town & Country
*best interior
*great bells and whistles (close second to the Sienna)
*great ride (at least equal to the Honda)
*split third row, but no hideaway
*good engine - 3.8liter
*worst reliability (so I read)
So, just based on ride and pricing we eliminated the Sienna. For value reasons, we picked the Chrysler - Honda was a close second, but for $30,000 I just wanted a more luxurious feel and look to a minivan. If it wasn't for the supposed reliability issue, the Chrysler would have been a no brainer for me. To overcome that concern, I took $1000 of the savings and bought a 100,000 mile extended warranty to give me peace of mind. Frankly, all three were fun to drive for different reasons.