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Toyota Matrix vs. Mazda Protege5
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Also, the side mirrors and door handles are always black on the base....not a concern for us as our vehicle is black.
I'm glad to hear that the Protege is a good car -- I wish Mazda nothing but the best, as more companies building great products is nothing but good for all of us.
Actually, the Mazda powered Escorts were the more relable versions. I think the cracked head escorts you speak of were the old cast iron head ford motors.
Meade
The only valid reliability record of past cars that people can look for when looking up the Protege5 would be the 99+ Protege sedans, and maybe the second generation Proteges (95-98), anything earlier than that is probably no longer valid.
Meade
The current 2.0L goes back to its intro in the '93 626.
It is not related at all to the BP engine in the old Pro and Miata.
At least that's what I've read! But even if I'm wrong, your correction still proves my point: in your version, the engine has a 9-year track record. So it's proven, eh?
Meade
The 1.8 in the 1999 and 2000 ES is a de -stroked version of the 2.0 in the 2001-02. This motor, the FS, has no relation to the 1.8 BP in the 1st and 2nd gen pros or Miata.
The negotiation wasn't a cakewalk but it ended up ok. They tried to tack on an extra hundred bucks but I stood firm and they acquiesced. They are definitely still making money but I got a pretty good deal. I think at least. I would be interested to know if anybody has been able to do better. I'm not looking for the trophy for the best deal. I am just curious what other people's experiences have been. Here is my deal, all in Canadian dollars. I negotiated with them using an "on the road" price that includes all fees, taxes(15%) and charges. For the below I paid $24250 on the road. The only thing I am paying in addition to this will be $93 for license transfer, a tank of gas and finance registrations fee. Here is what I got for my hard earned and hard negotiated money.
-Protege 5
-Blue
-5 speed
-air conditioning
-full rustproofing (undercoating, rust inhibitor in the door panels -$699 value)
-Immobilizer alarm system (the factory security system doesn't come with the immobolizer. This includes both the immobolizer and a shock sensor, so if someone breaks the windows the alarm will go off. I forget what the retail value of this is but somewhere near a thousand.)
-factory cargo tray-$95
Feel free to ask about my negotiation experience, especially if you are about to go through the same.
Anyone one have any ideas on stuff to look out for when I pick it up?
I'm not sure what US-Canada exchange rates are but I can tell you that the car I'm looking at Pro5 w/ automatic, moonroof, and perimeter alarm (with shock sensor) is around US $15.5K EXCLUSIVE of taxes (basically invoice price minus about $1700 in rebates).
One personal thought...to be honest, I'm kinda surprised that they're still selling the rustproofing. Isn't that the item that salesmen are notorious for inflating car prices with??? You know all those extras they tack on after giving you a "lowball" price??? Let me know....
I think I made it abundantly clear that I realize I made a mistake about the Protege -- just how much crow does a guy have to eat? Lighten up, folks -- it's just a car!!
As for the crappy Escorts, I was under the impression they had aluminum heads, just like my Cougar did. Owners of Escorts, TBirds and Cougars tended to buy Alumiseal by the gross. Of course, maybe Alumiseal works on cast iron, but in any case the engines were junk.
Hee hee ... everyone makes a boo-boo now and then! (I think I did regarding engine lineage myself.) Let's all lighten up!
Meade
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Meade
Well...mine is still going strong. No problems.
Only 1 problem - it's so reliable that I can't quite justify trading it in. If it ain's broke, why fix it?
Then went Ponitac wanted $2000 more for the Vibe over the Matrix, that sealed the deal right there.
I have talked to a GM Rep and a Pontiac Rep via local dealers, the only excuse I can get is "but we have a roof rack"
Can't wait for the first sales figures to hit.....
shrique
You should read the slam on the Pontiac GT-R SEMA showcar in the latest issue of Sport Compact Car. They had absolutely no mercy in pointing out the folly of giving a non-performance version of an American economy car the same name as one of the most feared performance cars on the planet - The Skyline GT-R.
Thus the reason we steered toward Toyota for the Matrix.
a. I decided if i was going to buy a subie it would have to be a WRX (next time!)
b. I wanted cruise and a sunroof since I do a lot of summer highway driving.
c. I don't "need" AWD - It is nice though, and up in Canada...
I saw the Matrix in person for the first time last weekend - looks are subjective but eeeewww! Best I can figure someone thought "What if we crossed a RAV4 with a Celica for people who want both?" But it pales next to either. I like my P5 even more now.
rbleland, let us know if you get the TS. Good luck.
vf
As far as the SN, I'm not sure....I do have to admit that the name "Matrix" sounds a little cooler than "Protege". I'll have to think about that one....
vf
Woohoo! I just called Mazda this afternoon (1-800-222-5500) and they confirmed the $750 rebate for me (Milwaukee area). It's available until April 1 and only if you have your own financing. So definitely call if you're interested. Plus, the lady was super nice in giving the information out, I sort of expected them to be hesitant about it. Now I can buy the fully loaded version!
vf
Anyway, I drove a 6-speed Matrix XRS. It wasn't slow or anything, but that has got to be the most gutless 180-hp engine ever. It certainly did not feel faster than my P5.
After driving it, I have to agree with one of the common comments here: the P5 is for people who want sporty, the Matrix is for people who want a small minivan. It drives better than a minivan, but even the XRS didn't have the sporty feel of the P5.
I did really like some of the things on the Matrix, though, like the hard plastic back and how flat the rear seats folded. It's definitely bigger than the P5. Ride is quieter, too, no doubt about it. I kinda liked the high-mounted shifter, which I though was very smooth also. Nice full-sized spare.
I didn't care for the minivan-like high seating position, but what I really hated, and I mean HATED, were the gauges. Holy crap are they ugly, but more importantly, hard to read. The designer who did that dash needs to be taken out and smacked upside the head. Normally I don't feel real strongly about the dash gauges, but man...
Not a bad car at all. One helluva lot better than the Focus I drove, but I wouldn't trade my P5 for it. Other than the dash, though, I bet my wife would.
I haven't drove the ZX5 but last year we did a testdrive of the ZX3 when me and my friend was shopping for her car. I was also unimpressed by the Focus. For those who are curious, she bought a Saturn.
Bruno
Geez, I didn't realize the Focai were that bad...
As for the XRS and power.....it's all at 6000 RPM's. You wouldn't notice it unless you were winding the engine more than your every driving instinct tells/wants you to. Under normal reving and shift points...it would feel the same as the base 130hp engine.
I have driven a protege 5 and find not much difference between the two. The only thing would be that Mazda in general tends to have a little more torque at lower RPM's than Toyota engines. The flip side I guess is that the Matrix does do better in gas mileage than the Protege 5. I also prefer the higher driving position.
I think they are good competitors....both good but different enough to suit different tastes.