GM - Lemon Law in Wisconsin - Civil Suit
cspaulding
Member Posts: 159
Sorry this is so long, just trying to be thorough.
We have a 2000 K2500 crew cab...it's a lemon. The truck will be 2 years old in April (w/ approx. 34000 miles on it) and we are finally pushing lemon law. Went through BBB - started paperwork, Chevy was on the phone within 2 days. Their "legal" department promised to call back during certain times (generally 2-3 hour increments during the day) and never did, we ended up calling them each time and getting put off each time. It has now been 3-4 weeks. We were told we would be getting a new truck - the only one close to what we have was a diesel, so we figured we'd have to put some $ into the deal for an upgrade. Chevy's legal dept. told us they estimated $2,000, which was fine, and that they wanted our truck off the road as soon as possible (one of the problems is the brakes don't always work). Chevy told my hubby the deal would be done by the end of this week. Chevy never contacted the dealer with the new truck, so I contacted Chevy before work on Monday...still no exact figure, and was told the paperwork would take 3 weeks. Yesterday, Thursday, I called Chevy and said the brakes are working less and less frequently and now squeal and clunk, and that if I get in an accident, Chevy will have a lawsuit since they know the problem and are delaying getting us into the new truck. By noon there was a message on our answering machine, it would be $12,000 to get into the new diesel. WRONG!
I told Chevy I did my homework and a new truck Exactly like ours would cost $38,398 (which would be what a replacement vehicle would be under lemon law) - the truck we were getting was $42,400, the most we're paying is $4000 - the difference. Chevy says no - you're upgrading 2 model years. I said no, if the truck would have been taken back in 2000 when it had all the problems it wouldn't be an upgrade, and it doesn't matter because lemon law says "a replacement vehicle will be a NEW comparable vehicle". I ended up telling Chevy we will sue them in civil court under lemon law, because that's what they want, and hung up. Today I will be doing up paper work to sue.
Chevy wants the best of both worlds, they want us to take a new truck, at sticker price, and only allow us our sticker price, minus mileage, against the new price. I told her the mileage only applies to buybacks under lemon law, and then there are a bunch of things in our favor, including collateral and pecuinary damages. She basically told me that they can do and will do what they want; oh, but she was overstepping her boundaries to help us - yeah, don't forget who signs her paycheck.
You can't get anywhere with GM. Before all this came about, we had the truck in 7 or 8 documented times in the first year, and at least 20 undocumented. The truck has a lack of power, an engine knock, tick, and miss, brakes that don't work part of the time, a problem with the rear axel, oil leaks, the 4wd lever doesn't pull sometimes, etc. They actually fixed one problem, the interior that was falling apart. The ZONE MANAGER looked at the truck and said "there's nothing wrong with it" (he didn't even acknowledge the interior problem) and gave me a bunch of other excuses, ending it with "you have a beautiful truck, I don't see what your problem is". Even when shown the 4wd lever, he said well, it's normal and it finally pulls on the 5th or 6th try, so you'll just have to live with it.
I had been in contact with Chevy's service line numerous times to no avail. Anytime the dealer noted a problem and called Chevy, they were told there's nothing wrong and everything is normal.
Finally at 14000 the dealer replaced valves, lifters, cylanders, gaskets, etc. - that made it work for about 14000 miles more, now same problem is back, prompting this whole deal.
This has been an unbelieveable experience and once we go for money under lemon law, we won't be buying a GM vehicle for a long time.
Has anyone gone through civil, circuit court, with lemon law here in Wisconsin?
We have a 2000 K2500 crew cab...it's a lemon. The truck will be 2 years old in April (w/ approx. 34000 miles on it) and we are finally pushing lemon law. Went through BBB - started paperwork, Chevy was on the phone within 2 days. Their "legal" department promised to call back during certain times (generally 2-3 hour increments during the day) and never did, we ended up calling them each time and getting put off each time. It has now been 3-4 weeks. We were told we would be getting a new truck - the only one close to what we have was a diesel, so we figured we'd have to put some $ into the deal for an upgrade. Chevy's legal dept. told us they estimated $2,000, which was fine, and that they wanted our truck off the road as soon as possible (one of the problems is the brakes don't always work). Chevy told my hubby the deal would be done by the end of this week. Chevy never contacted the dealer with the new truck, so I contacted Chevy before work on Monday...still no exact figure, and was told the paperwork would take 3 weeks. Yesterday, Thursday, I called Chevy and said the brakes are working less and less frequently and now squeal and clunk, and that if I get in an accident, Chevy will have a lawsuit since they know the problem and are delaying getting us into the new truck. By noon there was a message on our answering machine, it would be $12,000 to get into the new diesel. WRONG!
I told Chevy I did my homework and a new truck Exactly like ours would cost $38,398 (which would be what a replacement vehicle would be under lemon law) - the truck we were getting was $42,400, the most we're paying is $4000 - the difference. Chevy says no - you're upgrading 2 model years. I said no, if the truck would have been taken back in 2000 when it had all the problems it wouldn't be an upgrade, and it doesn't matter because lemon law says "a replacement vehicle will be a NEW comparable vehicle". I ended up telling Chevy we will sue them in civil court under lemon law, because that's what they want, and hung up. Today I will be doing up paper work to sue.
Chevy wants the best of both worlds, they want us to take a new truck, at sticker price, and only allow us our sticker price, minus mileage, against the new price. I told her the mileage only applies to buybacks under lemon law, and then there are a bunch of things in our favor, including collateral and pecuinary damages. She basically told me that they can do and will do what they want; oh, but she was overstepping her boundaries to help us - yeah, don't forget who signs her paycheck.
You can't get anywhere with GM. Before all this came about, we had the truck in 7 or 8 documented times in the first year, and at least 20 undocumented. The truck has a lack of power, an engine knock, tick, and miss, brakes that don't work part of the time, a problem with the rear axel, oil leaks, the 4wd lever doesn't pull sometimes, etc. They actually fixed one problem, the interior that was falling apart. The ZONE MANAGER looked at the truck and said "there's nothing wrong with it" (he didn't even acknowledge the interior problem) and gave me a bunch of other excuses, ending it with "you have a beautiful truck, I don't see what your problem is". Even when shown the 4wd lever, he said well, it's normal and it finally pulls on the 5th or 6th try, so you'll just have to live with it.
I had been in contact with Chevy's service line numerous times to no avail. Anytime the dealer noted a problem and called Chevy, they were told there's nothing wrong and everything is normal.
Finally at 14000 the dealer replaced valves, lifters, cylanders, gaskets, etc. - that made it work for about 14000 miles more, now same problem is back, prompting this whole deal.
This has been an unbelieveable experience and once we go for money under lemon law, we won't be buying a GM vehicle for a long time.
Has anyone gone through civil, circuit court, with lemon law here in Wisconsin?
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Comments
In any case, they won't owe you more than the value of an equivalent 2 yr old, but flawless K2500 Crew Cab with 34,000 miles.
Can't tell you what to do, but if they offered me the deal you describe, I'd call 'em back and take it. No getting around it, vehicle ownership is expensive, and 5,6,7k depreciation per year is not unreasonable.
We are not "trading" the truck, we are pursuing lemon law.
Doesn't WI have a time or mileage limitation as to whether you can file a lemon law case against the manufacturer? I believe, course your attorney will verify, that GM has stalled you out of the option to file under the lemon law.
The mileage only comes off if you are taking a cash settlement, the other option is to replace the truck with a new one (no mileage allowance deducted).
I believe it has to be filed within the warranty period 3/36000, with at least 4 repair attempts in the first year (we have 7 documented in the first year). That's probably why they're stalling again now.
100k-34k= 66k/100k x original value +fees,etc.= current value of truck.
If there is an option, I'm sure GM will take the repurchase route rather than replace with an "as like" truck. Comes out cheaper for them.
This may all be a moot point as your attorney knows the laws of your state better than I or anyone on this board.
Either way...good luck with your case.
kip
Regards,
Andy
Bottom line ....DON'T GIVE UP YOU WILL PREVAIL
my 2 cents
Ray T.
Bill
The things that broke and were fixed are not an issue,but the engine knock and oil consumption are.Call GM's customer service hotline(in your owner's manuel) and they'll give you an extended warranty on the engine(only).If,like me ,you don't find this acceptable then call the BBB AUTO LINE at 1 800 955 5100.The more people that file claims the faster we'll all get satisfaction.
kip
Ray T
The rules for resolution are different from one state to another.Call the number and they'll send you a pamphlet with the specifics for your state.
kip
lots of luck
Chris
Bill
Chris
Ray T.
kip
Ray T.
Just an update. Chris
Being told to wait weeks for Chevy to get on the ball, or that they would have to take the whole 4x4 system apart just reinforces my opinion that perhaps the biggest issue you have with your truck is an inept dealer service group.
Another dealer might. This is the first I've heard of such a thing as waiting for them to do anything near what you're talking about. Except of course, stalling hoping maybe their problem will go away.
does it work better if transmission is in neutral, while rolling or stopped?
Rando
Also how much wear is actually on the truck?? 34K and two years ild is used in my opinion and you should be offered the full private party sell amount, that's it. Considering the body design has changed to 4 doors and not 3 you think of reasons why. Also how much did you stress the 4x4 system?? Have you gone 4buying alot?? In all due respect I could leave mine in 4wd all year and need a new system in 30k miles!
All in all, a court of law will want proof from you that you used OEM parts on the truck at all times. That includes any work not performed by GM. If You got you oil changed and they put a NAPA gold on it, there goes your case. Just telling ya.
I can scan a copy of my ext warranty and highlight the part where it says OEM parts.
"the 4wd lever doesn't pull sometimes, etc"
AK4X4, just having a non-OEM filter on the vehicle does not exempt the vehicle from a warranty claim or a lemon law case unless it is proven that the non-OEM filter individually caused the problem that requires repair.
Gm/Ford/whoever can not force you to use OEM parts for routine maintenance unless they give them to you for free.
Ray T.
see ya
Rando
http://www.autopedia.com/Lemon/LemonMM3.html
This one is even more interesting:
http://www.autopedia.com/lemon/
Maybe I was thinking of the tractor Massey Ferguson and got confused.........LOL
Ray T.