Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/listarticle.aspx?cp-documentid=1168211
They say that less than 3% of U.S. tire sales are for winter tires. They tested a G37 with and without and the findings are surprising if you aren't familiar with these types of tires.
Quote (MSN Autos):
What About All-Wheel Drive?
Often cited as the transportation cure for winter climates, all-wheel drive is far from a silver bullet. In previous tests, we've discovered that an all-wheel-drive vehicle with all-season tires can outaccelerate either a front- or rear-driver on winter rubber, but that's where the advantage ends. The additional traction of winter tires allows a two-wheel-drive car to outbrake, outturn, and generally outmaneuver its all-wheel-drive brethren. Of course, the unstoppable winter option that can impart visions of rally-driving heroism is the combination of all-wheel drive and winter tires, but possessing all-wheel drive generally sacrifices a rear-drive car's handling balance in the dry, adds a couple hundred pounds, and comes with a fuel-economy penalty. That's why our preferred choice is to buy a second set of tires to get through the winter
Here's a video of all season vs winter tires:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s
So you should forget AWD and get a set of summer and a set of winter tires instead. If you live where you really get bad snow, that is.
I don't want to turn this into a debate on drivetrains and tires. But in the northeast there are a lot of cars on the road with awd.
It easy to sit in LA and link to articles on tires and drivetrains. Why dont you spend a winter or ten in the northeast and get some practical experience with tires and drivetrains?
While it's all well and fine for people to keep giving ideas about how to turn a RWD sport sedan into a decent snow performer with better tires, etc., I can tell you that my 4WD vehicle outperforms my G35 in the snow, period.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
It's really not the huge issue that most people on the boards here make it out to be. The way that people talk about it seems as if your car will instantly fly off the road, cash, and explode if you don't cough up the extra thousands for an AWD system.
Proper tires and not driving like a moron can make it pretty much a non-issue and allow you to consider pretty much any car or truck for winter use. That video, btw, that I linked to was of a RWD BMW.
Oh, and we do get snow in California. I didn't always live in So. Cal - there's tons of bad weather up in the northern parts of the state. And in all of that time, I never once considered what type of drive (FWD/RWD/4WD) the vehicle had when I purchased it. I adjusted my driving patterns and tires to fit the situation.
Ever live in Europe? I'm guessing not. I have. It's a bit silly to lump all of Europe into a single category, because some areas get almost no snow, but anyway... not everyone in Germany drives a RWD vehicle, and I'm not sure it would make international news if some of those who did had trouble in the snow. I will say that much of England pretty much shuts down if there's 2" of snow - could we attribute that to the prevalence of RWD vehicles in Europe? I doubt it, but that debate point makes as much sense as your point about "not hearing about BMWs/Mercedes flying off the road in Germany."
As I said, talk all you want. We've had two RWD vehicles at the same time in winter, and 2 AWD vehicles at that same time. I'm going to choose the AWD vehicle in heavy snow 100% of the time, even if you tell me yet another time how RWD is a non-issue if you have proper tires and driving skills.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Does it actually work? Most systems actually are only good for slow speeds and getting you unstuck from snow and the like. If the system transfers power back and forth and isn't engaged all of the time, it's useless for most bad conditions unless the power ratios are set up correctly. Most manufacturers get this horribly wrong.
The G37 in question costs $1500 more for the AWD version, but it performs almost the same as the RWD version due to the power distribution. (0/100 under default conditions). It's basically fancy version of stability control in that it kicks in when it feels that it needs to, and from videos of the system in action that I have seen, it takes about 1/4 to 1/2 of a second for the computer's AI to actually think and respond.(not talking about theoretical published specs, but watching the wheels respond to an unknown surface and how they move back and forth)
Too slow to be useful at normal driving speeds except to maybe lessen a skid or situation where you are already in over your head. There are numerous articles and videos out there about half-baked AWD systems, so I'll not go into this further.
The other issue is cost - $1500 more and much more likely to break down as the car ages. Is it worth it? Probably not. It's certainly not full-time AWD like Audi and Subaru use.
It may perform the same but I'll bet it doesn't react the same. What I want out of my AWD system is not to have to worry about powering through deep drifts. I want to be able to step on the gas gently and have all four tires partipate in gingerly moving the car without throwing it into a skid.
With RWD with snows, gingerly is not in the equation. It doesn't matter whose system is better, I want the system to be just good enough so I won't get stuck.
The ATTESA has been written up for the last several years as the best performance AWD.
Come this winter I will find out.
But of course, it's big, expensive, and eats lots of gas and all of that... And you can't use the 4x4 mode on pavement. Then again, you really don't NEED to given how well it drives.
Plus safety...
Of course, I was being a little bit sarcastic there. :P But I think I also have a valid point in that if you are looking for a "luxury performance sedan", AWD is a minor concern compared to all of the other factors. Because the fact is that most of them will be RWD or heavily RWD biased anyways. You will need winter tires if you want to drive it during the winter months.
It just makes more sense to spend the extra $1500 on a second set of rims and winter tires and just swap them every 6 months or so.
Meh I would rather go for the awd instead of a second set of rims. Awd is more useful in more situations than two plus snows.
10 years I probably would have been preaching being a purist. Now I just want to enjoy my ride and I don't care if I'm getting the last ounce of performance from it. Or if the awd system is front biased, rear biased, full time or part time. I just don't want to get stuck.
As an aside 4 snow tires on an awd car can out everything a rwd car in slick conditions.
Changing over isn't that simple, nor is it cheap. My Prelude has a dedicated set of 15" steel wheels which the snow tires are mounted on. I store them where I work and have the changeover done by a "Fix-A-Flat" place up the block. They charge me $30 each time I changeover.
I didn't buy an extra set of wheels for my TSX, just a set of snow tires. I have to jam 3 tires into the trunk and put one in the front seat. My Acura dealer charges $100 for a snow tire changeover that includes dismounting, remounting, & balancing.
They don't plow particularly well where I live in Stamford, CT (10 miles from the NY State border), nor do they salt due to the high concentration of well water. This past winter was particularly bad, but I can see how AWD can and will be useful in the future.
Every BMW & Mercedes-Benz that's not an ///M (besides the X5 M & X6 M) or AMG, 6, Z4, SL, or SLK is All Wheel Drive that I see in NY & CT.
Besides, my mere average driving skills won't let me squeeze the all out performance out of a RWD, SP Equipped BMW anyway.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I'm new to the forum and I need some help choosing a used, two to three year old sedan, that has some power behind it. I'm looking at:
2008 Acura TL
2009 Nissan Maxima
2012 V6 Mustang
2009 Honda Accord Coupe (AT)
2008 Infiniti G35
2010 Nissan Altima 3.5 SR
Please consider reliability and maintenance costs for these vehicles when making suggestions. I want this car to last. You guys on this forum know tons more than me when it comes to this.
Please feel free to make suggestions as to which cars I may be forgetting about in my search.
Thanks!!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
The G35. I've had great luck with Nissan over the decades, and lots of people enjoy the G series. Rear-wheel-drive has a number of advantages in a performance-oriented car, but the engine in this guy is the same one they use across the board, from the Pathfinder to the Z-car. It's a bit thirsty and noisy I'm told, but solid as a rock. Our '04 Pathfinder has over 106K miles on it and has had absolutely no issues at all beyond a couple of little things related to the parking brake.
Enjoy your search. All cars these days are so much better than they used to be that it's pretty hard to go wrong.
2009 Nissan Maxima
2012 V6 Mustang
2009 Honda Accord Coupe (AT)
2008 Infiniti G35
2010 Nissan Altima 3.5 SR
TL - I have an '05 and it has been bulletproof for 111K miles. Not a fabulous handler, it wallows a bit in turns. Lots of power but some torque steer (automatic tranny).
Maxima - no experience. They're kind of rare around here.
Mustang - less refined, which can be good or bad. Not so sure about long term reliability.
Accord - probably very reliable
Infiniti - sporty, narrower interior, powerful but growlier engine. Should be reliable.
Altima - no experience, probably a good car, but maybe cheaper interior?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
My daughter owns a 09 Accord and I would also rate that highly. My other daughter drives 2010 Altima, 4 cylinder. Both are very reliable and handle well for front drive vehicles. Neither handle as well as the G35s.
I've owned a TL and an MDX in the past and had transmission problems with both. Acura still has many transmission issues. They are front wheel drive and while not as bad as some FWDs, they handle a bit jittery. You can't beat rear wheel drive cars like the G35s. The Gs only revert to all wheel drive when it detects slippage.
The Maxima is a nice car but is front wheel and also is a bit jittery in the handling dept. Very reliable.
I would rate the cars you listed in this order: the G 35, the Altima, the Accord, the Maxima and the Acura TL dead last.
Great car. Basically a working man's CTS without the bling and silly styling. Since GM ditched Pontiac (since the car is still made in Australia, repairs aren't an actual problem).
I'd say a used CTS as well, but there's no point in getting a used CTS when the Pontiac is almost the same thing.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Comparing the G8 GT’s power and acceleration and handling - the ‘performance’ aspect of this class, the G8 GT is far superior to any [non ‘v’ ] CTS that I have driven.
YMMV.
- Ray
Seduced by power and torque, once again . . .
Comparing the G8 to the Mustang, as much as I love the new Mustang, the G8 is far superior.
Most posters say the run flats are loud, expensive, and do not handle as well as non run flats. Most dealerships and tire stores do not stock run flats. If you get a flat tire, you can drive it 100 or so miles but it then must be replaced, not repaired. If you are several hundred miles from home, especially on a weekend, you will be stranded for up to 3 days waiting for the expensive tire to arrive at the dealer or tire store. You can change the tires to non run flats, but the storing of a spare could be problematic since no space is alloted for a spare.
I would rate the G37 first of the ones you mentioned. Great handling, good looking, and very reliable. The TL would be the last vehicle I'd buy. I've owned 2 Acuras but never again. The C class is nice but reliabilty problems are a concern.
I'm curious, though, why the G37X vs the C300? A closer comparison would be the G25 vs C300 or C350 vs G37.
Personally, if AWD is a must, I'd be looking at the S60, too.
No big, heavy FWD sedans for me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mercedes has been running some insanely cheap lease deals lately. Especially on leftover 2011 C300 4Matics (the most popular C around here).
I'm a pretty big fan of Hondas. We own 3. Yes the TL is nose heavy & is front wheel drive, but Acuras drive pretty nice. They are "sporty." They are far from floaty, but very comfortable. Interior appointments are fantastic, it offers generous front & rear accomodations, a decent sized trunk, lots of tech for the dollar.
Im curious as to why the OP is checking out the G37 as opposed to the G25 as well. The G37X is a bonafide road rocket. You get 326 hp and a proper RWD chassis. Even though the X denotes AWD, it is still RWD most of the time. Infiniti has some seriously good factory backed leasing. Coupled with a $1000 dealer incentive (not customer incentive) & 2% holdback, you can lease one very cheap.
How good is the G37X? I'm trying to convince my wife that we should dump our perfectly good 2010 TSX (bought 8/29/09) with 39K miles and 3 years left to payoff so I can lease the G37X & save $100 a month as opposed to driving the TSX until the wheels fall off.
Definitely check out the BMW 328i. The 3 series is a fantastic driver's car. Very sharp reflexes. Excellent driving dynamics. It is a little tight in the back seat & the trunk is tiny too.
Good luck & keep us posted with what you get.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
We have a 04 G35X and a 07 G35X. The exhaust on the 2004 is definitely loud but I hardly notice the exhaust on the newer 2007. I notice the exhaust more now that I replaced the tires with Michelins on the 04. There is a clear difference in the newer Gs re the exhaust sound. You may not even notice the exhaust on the new Gs.
I will probably buy an EX35 soon. I want something small with folding seats. Some consider this a G37 with a little more storage. The EX is something to consider even though it is technically not a sedan but the smallest crossover on the market. Infiniti has some nice incentives now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I guess I meant to say that the G is a beast even without forced induction which several competitors use such as the BMW 335.
Get an 08 or 09 335i.
There is no room for a spare in the X3 if you switch out the tires to non run flats.
The interior of the current 3 series is very dated but the X3 interior is a huge improvement.
There are many posters on the BMW sites that do not care for the run flats, although some do like the fact that they generally won't have to change a flat tire. Getting stranded if you are out of state is a big concern in addition to the noise and poorer handling.
That being said, I love the handling of the current 3 series. I actually considered the E91 until I saw the interior. It also has run flats.
I was all set to get a Porsche 911 until I noticed that the passenger side windshield wiper arm was an inch too short.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
So if you don't travel out of state you're ok with the run flats.
I guess you didn't do your homework researching this. Please go ahead and buy a car with run flats. Take some reading material with you if you go out of state because you may get stranded.
Replace the run-flats with a proper set of Michelin Pilot Sports.
Buy a donut spare or a can of fix-a-flat for the trunk.
By the way, don't get the G - too much of a lateral move from the Acura, IMHO
I was all ready to sign for my new 911 and they didn't have a license plate holder...I turned around and walked out.
Another poster implied that German car companies other than BMW use run flats often. In fact, few other than BMW use only run flats. Porsche had them years ago on the 959.
This site has arguments both ways for the run flats but the majority of these owners are against the use of them http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/06/run-flat-tires-.html
I considered taking the run flats off a new X3 if I purchased one but there is no convenient place for the spare except taking up space in the smallish space behind the rear seat.
They are loud, do not handle as well in the opinion of many, cost almost double, do not last as long and if is difficult to find them in stock.
Car makers should make the run flats optional.
I like the G37 of all the fine cars mentioned here. It's probably the least expensive, has the great VQ engine, is good looking, handles well, is reliable, and is rear wheel drive (or all wheel drive). The ride of the TL is a different type of ride which I do not like. I've owned several Acuras but will never even consider these again due to their ongoing transmission issues.
My second choice would be a current 3 series but I would ditch the run flats as soon as they wear out.....probably around 15,000. I'd replace them with Michelins. The donut spare could fit in the trunk.
None of the current Porsches come with run flat tires.
I wonder why this German company stopped using them?