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Get real! This is probably true on a level road, at 55 MPH , no A/C, all windows closed, one 150 lb driver in a vehicle, with 20 MPH tailwind.
90+ MPH with A/C blasting, 300++ lb fatso behind the wheel, they are lucky to see 12 MPG. And the DOD system is very marginal. I already read a bunch of complaints from new 2007 Tahoe owners with the DOD system who say that it rarely activates and they are not seeing anything close to the sticker specified mileage.
Rocky
BTW My one co-worker owns a new 07' Caddy Slade and he claims he's getting 22 mpg on a flat west texas farm and market road road doing 70 mph. He said it was better than his 99' Escalade with the 5.7 350. "I have almost an extra 150 hp. under the hood and it get's way better mileage" is what he said.
The Slade is an American Icon, and I'm going to war against anyone who wants to take the
"King of Bling" off the Road. :mad:
Rocky
I think we are being gouged by Big Oil and the game, as mentioned before, is conditioning and the “See what they are willing to pay b4 the whining, then back it down a little, get then comfortable, then raise it” cycle. We’re getting yanked in the winter with natural gas, yanked in the three other seasons with fuel.
I don’t think Bush and company are all to blame, but he is a big-oil president so don’t expect him to do much. Yes, he’s pushing E85, but
I agree with some that it is up to the individual to improve their situation. Myself for example, I changed my driving habits when fuel “skyrocketed past $2 a few years ago. I cut out unnecessary errands and trips, didn’t eat out for lunch but once to twice a week; didn’t drive my ’66 SS as much (that was a bummer). What helped this situation as well was I went back to school to gain my undergrad and dual Masters-Degree, so most of my time was spent either at work or school.
For the current situation:
My trips are only to the job and back home. I don’t let the fuel level go below 3/8 of a tank (keeping my fill-up to $25 roughly), I drive the speed limit or just fast enough to not back-up traffic, not the “flow” of traffic which can be +10 higher than the posted limit. I don’t eat out for lunch period (though I was only eating out about once a week, at the local $5 or $6.50 buffet). I won’t visit nearly as often as before. I have also cancelled my road-trips this year as I did last summer (will miss out on my niece’s graduation, bummer) as well as taking a serious look a getting rid of the cable and celly, as these are my only two luxuries. Furniture purchases will once again be put on hold. The new car project is on indefinite hold. The monies saved from this will go towards paying the extra petrol bills this summer, natural gas bill in the winter, and hopefully a dollar or two additional for savings.
SUVs: As stated, many of the SUV drivers are just perpetrating a fraud, or are trophy wives (or husbands). A lot of them are just making it check to check (yes you would be surprised), just trying to keep up with the Jones’. Too bad the Jones’ are BROKE too!! I also find it funny how they are the main ones b**chin’ and moanin’ about it costing $60 ~ $75 bucks to fill-up, then they burn rubber out of the service station. And why is it that whenever a news crew interviews people at the stations, they always interview these people, who make it’s not killing them? Why not interview the young guy with the Civic, or the woman with the Hyundai, the regular mo with the car that has a 13 gallon tank that cost $39 bucks to fill it up?
Just my thoughts about the gas prices and what I am doing to curb my usage. Though I do make a decent living and have a very good job (pay, benefits, insurance), I am still being hit by these prices. And I’m not trying to be like those I saw yesterday on CNN pawing family heirlooms, jewelry and the like for gas (war veteran pawing a 100 yr. old bvlgari watch for $200 for fuel). Also saw an interesting program about this subject last night on CNN as well “We Were Warned Oil Crisis” or something to that effect
I agree....I mean that driving small cars you see immediate savings in terms of gas bills and perhaps maintenance....
I think the statistics reveal that there is a 67% chance that one will be in an accident in one's lifetime. ( of course, some will have more than one..some not at all)
The NHTSA, IIHS, Consumer Reports, American Automobile Association, etc...all say that in general, larger vehicles are safer than smaller ones.
I think it would be nice if the larger vehicles all had hybrid engines...and that the trend is to downsize all vehicles on the road...and make semis / trucks use truck only lanes....
Like your sense of humour and view points...keeep it up;;.
Rocky
Not all trucks are alike ....some have 8 piston front brakes with cross drilled rotors, 4 piston rear brakes , each the size of large saucer plates..and allow the trucks to stop quickly.
However, they are the minority. I agree that large vehicles should be driven more conservatively , in proportion to their performance ability and weight.
Rocky
it is possible to get good gas mileage , if one tries...in a larger vehicle....but like you said...it must be more conservative driving...
The flip side is also true....I have a 2004 Acura TL....and we only get 20 to 24 mpg mixed use driving. I have heard of many who drive rather spiritedly , who are getting only 16 mpg...in a small sedan !!!
IT is not just the size....it is how you use it...
highender in all seriousness I was getting City/HwY combined MPG of 26.8 with my 05' TL Stick. I missed that darn car alot and would love to take one out right now for a spin.
Voice Commands: DVD Play Disc 5 Track 8
Temperature 67 degrees.
Find nearest Mexican Restaraunt. Now finding Mexican
Display ATM's
Display Hotel Motel
Damn I used to have fun playing with my VR and dazzling my friends.
Rocky
And I've got a cell-phone and something to say on this cell phone. Out of my way, I get 7 mpg and I gotta big ugly SUV with an automatic tranny. And I'm an American, yee-haa-haa-haahaaaaaa. :shades: It's my way or da highway!
I think I'll go to Disneyland and stand in line on my vacation.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Any gas prices to report??
Up to $2.95 for 87 here today
You can't really think the other box would have been as capable. I watched him Sunday and couldn't even stand to listen to his prattling on trying to appear knowledgeable. I changed the channel.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Personally, I think people have all the right to drive however gluttonous a vehicle they want to drive. However, when you buy an inefficient vehicle, don't gripe about gas prices when they go up, since you put yourself in the position.
It is immaterial who is responsible for gas prices. BTW, if you think any President is omnipotent enough to override market forces in a capitalist free society, you're crazy. I don't care if a Repub or Demo is in office, neither has an appreciable effect. Claiming the President can do anything about it is a HUGE leap from reality and a gross oversimplification of the realities of market economics. If only it were that simple.
The bottom line is everyone ( 99% of the time ) is free to choose what kind of car they buy, and everyone is aware of the mileage they are going to get, and the potential for gas to be expensive in the future. If you put yourself in a position to be taken advantage of, don't be surprised when you are. And suck it up. You put yourself there. Time for a little good-ole personal accountability. A foreign concept these days in America, I know. Much easier to be a victim.
I've owned Mercedes, Audis, Volvos, some nice and expensive cars. About 6 months ago, I decided I had nobody to impress, and was tired of driving a car that I knew was inefficient with fuel. I could afford to drive the less efficient car, even at $3 a gallon although painful, but just got tired of being wasteful. I saw the fuel price thing coming also and decided to be proactive rather than get robbed. So, I sold the nice cars, and bought a 43mpg Geo Metro for $1000 to commute in. I must say, I look like a dork driving around, but I couldn't care less what anyone thinks, way beyond that in life. The car is actually a fine car to drive, and I enjoy getting 40mpg+ on the highway. I have zero car payment, can carrly liability insurance only, and spent a pittance on the car. I figure I'm $400-500 net a month ahead of the people making car payments. Add that to paying off your mortgage early and see how much with interest you're really saving!
As for safety, well, you can talk about the Metro being small, and yes, it is no E-class safety-wise. However, I don't drive 85mph on my phone, eating, putting on makeup, with screaming kids in the back either. I drive conservatively and pay attention to the road not my phone conversation about the latest baseball game scores. Compared to how recklessly I see the large SUV drivers flying around on the interstate here, I think although my car is 3x less safe, I am probably 3x less likely to be in an accident than they are too, so we're even.
I laugh when I hear people griping about filling their tanks. And I mean tanks as in military sized vehicles. If you can't afford to fill it, you probably are living above your means in the first place.
To me, it's all about having the mentality of living an efficient lifestyle or a wasteful one. To each his/her own. Feel free to be as wasteful or efficient as you wish, it is a free country. But be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
A little side of me can't wait for $3.50-$4.00 gas, to see people squirm some more as I squeak a few bucks into the Metro tank. Heh, heh...
I couldn't agree more. Its not that I like paying a lot for gas but I think we have a serious problem when it comes to our oil dependency and high prices are the only way it will receive the urgency it deserves. I think that Americans have very short memories and if gas prices were to ease back below $2/gallon this issue of oil dependency would quickly move to the back burner.
What's wrong with the Escalade. Sure it's a yuppie car, but it sure looks cool and if I had to be a yuppie to own, I'll gladly will sign on. :shades:
Do you really believe half the stuff you say? How in the hell does the President have any control over the price of gas? Do you care to elaborate on that because I am really curious. For that matter, big oil companies have very little control over the price of oil. There was a time that OPEC had the ability to manipulate the price but they no longer have excess capacity and are pumping full out and probably will continue to do so for the foreseable future along with every other oil producer. That's all they can do to hold down prices unfortunately we burn it as fast as they can pump it out of the ground.
President George Dubya Bush has the power to implement price controls and prevent gas stations from gouging consumers. Does he do it ? A little crackdown happened after Katrina.The problem is Big Oil has shut down refinery's over the years to artificially create a faux supply and demand. :mad:
The oil company's could reinvest the oil revune into building and expanding oil refinery's because their is no shortage of oil in the ground and the empty oil wells will eventually be replenshed with new oil over a 20-30+ year period.
We have oil everywhere in the United States, some area's are better than others to mine it out of the ground. We buy oil from the Saudi's, Kuwait, etc because the oil in those places are relatively close to the surface and is inexpensive to mine. OTOH my father in-law has a large deposit of oil on his land, but it's underneath 1400 feet of granite.
So the bottom line is "President Oil" could do something about these gouging high prices and demand that OPEC quit playing games and the gas stations quit charging prices.
He's all lip service, with no substance on this issue. :sick:
Rocky
Rocky
The other problem is folks we are owned by the World Bank and don't have a gold standard. We are living on false promises. :mad:
BTW- Dumas Gas Prices are $2.85 everywhere, so they went down 4 cents. Wal-mart I'm sure is slightly cheaper, but it's not listed. I'll have to ask the wife when she get's home.
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
At $3/gallon they could make more money now, they have record cash/profits, why don't they build out now? Actually they haven't invested in new refineries in 50 years because supply is diminishing.
>>eventually be replenshed with new oil over a 20-30+ year period
even if that is true we are still using it much faster than it is coming in. The first 90% of a well is taken in the first 5-10% of it life.
>>Oil is not a fossil fuel and anyone that believes that is an idiot.
What ever you believe we live in a closed system, world resources are finite. Personally I thinks it's time for everyone to get their house in order because rising fuel prices are here to stay. I'm getting a tiny car, not because I can't afford $5 gas. I want to get my kids used to driving in tiny, fuel efficient cars because that is what their world will be like.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
Good luck
Supply is diminishing :confuse:
even if that is true we are still using it much faster than it is coming in.The first 90% of a well is taken in the first 5-10% of it life.
You lost me pal. You said above the demand is dimishing and now you are say the we are using it faster than it's being made. :confuse:
What ever you believe we live in a closed system, world resources are finite. Personally I thinks it's time for everyone to get their house in order because rising fuel prices are here to stay. I'm getting a tiny car, not because I can't afford $5 gas. I want to get my kids used to driving in tiny, fuel efficient cars because that is what their world will be like.
No, not all world resources are remewable. I don't agree with you that your kids will be driving tiny cars. Hydrogen and Ethanol cars will be high performance big cars. If anything, they will be driving McMansions on wheels :P
Rocky
Nah, the economy is way more complicated than an over-simplistic solution like unilateral price controls. Might want to take a couple of economics courses at a local community college. Just doesn't work that way, unless you want Socialism or Communism. The free market has the f word in it for that reason, free. If you don't like freedom of the marketplace, be prepared to sacrifice other freedoms in the guise of "fairness" too.
Might want to give Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" a read too. Amazingly appropriate for this time of high gas prices.
I'll give a really, really oversimplistic scenario of why price controls don't work in the long run. There isn't room here to do it justice, so a bare bones explanation:
Let's say you have a company that goes to huge expense and risk, builds a huge infrastructure, invests in all kinds of technologies, to extract and refine gasoline ( insert your company or industry here ). They start this whole process in the beginning because some private citizens get together and decide there is a chance to make some money on the idea of bringing gasoline to market ( insert product here ). So, they put up a bunch of their own money, work hard, and eventually have success and make a go of it. In addition to benefitting themselves by profiting, they also benefit a lot of other people around who like to use gasoline, since none of them were either smart, industrious, or had the means to do it themselves, but still gas is available to them so they benefit. Now, one day the consumers decide that the gas company guys are making too much money. So, they get ticked off and pass a bunch of rules and regulations to make the gas company guys make less profit. See, now there is this wierd thing in the consumers heads after a few years that it is not only nice to have gas available, but that they have some inherent RIGHT to it, and that it is the DUTY of the gas guys to provide them the gas. This is where they are getting a little screwy in the head. Anyway, the gas guys resist, but the public pressure increases, laws are passed, and the consumers feel real smug that they sure showed them. Until one day, the gas guys, the only guys who have the know-how to bring gas to market, decide they are tired of all the hassle from the consumers and they just close the refinery doors, lock them up, and walk away. At this point, the public freaks out and demands that they come back and provide gas, since the people DESERVE the gas, and it is the OBLIGATION of the refinery guys to keep on working and providing the gas. Society suffers due to lack of gas. At this point, do you think the masses say, gee, we sure screwed up making their life so miserable they walked out on us? NO. The people, like most Americans these days, don't take any accountability, and point the finger, and become victims, and blame all their troubles on the gas guys that walked out. If only the gas guys had stayed slaves and done their duty and worked for the set profit that was decided was fair to them, all would be well.
Anyway, way, way too short to adequately explain what happens due to human nature when you start controlling supply, demand, wages, and profits artificially, but you get the idea.
Just take a look at societies in the past where governments controlled prices, and you'll see the least efficient results.
Implement price controls on gas, and don't be surprised when the pumps are dry. Just like in the former Eastern-Bloc countries. Prices were low, but nothing on the shelf to buy 75% of the time, so it didn't matter.
Trust me, folks. The true free market is as good as it gets. Be thankful we have it.
But back to what you said. The oil cartel is a monopoly, and all have pooled as one to make you and I suffer, while they get rich off of watered down gasoline. :mad: I'm sick of it. after hurricane Katrina when the gas stations were charging $6,7,8, dollar gas I can give a rat about those greedy [non-permissible content removed]'s. :mad: Price controls of $1.75 a gallon is more than fair. The money is going into the pockets of the gredy most powerful industry on the planet, and that's not a free market. It's a pooling monopoly :mad:
Rocky
Don't be surprised when people start telling you how to live your life in the new socialist order.
The oil companies are not a monopoly.
Let's say, for example, you own oil company A and I own oil company B, and come other Edmunds users have companies C, D, E.
The price it costs us, wholesale, to find, refine, etc oil into gasoline is $1 a gallon. We sell it, say for discussion, at our gas stations at $2 a gallon.
Now at this point, each of yours, mine, and Edmunds posters C D E each have 20 % of the market share. We each have a station in each town.
Now, each of us wants to grow our market share and drive the other 4 out of business.
One day, person E says, hey, I'm making a killing at $1 a gallon profit. I bet if I made my price 1.80 a gallon, I'd still be making tons of money, and I'd clean house with all the business I'd steal from the other companies. With my volume, it would more than make up with increased business the .20c I gave up per gallon.
So, E Oil Company drops the price to $1.80.
After a couple days, word gets out, and people flock to E Oil Stations.
The rest of the companies look at their business, which is down substantially after a couple of days or weeks. They have to do something to offer a competitive price, so a couple of them go to $1.70.
Consumers notice and start going to D Oil in droves.
This goes on and on with each of them trying to beat the other guy out, until the profit margin gets slim enough to where there is some kind of equilibrium met where there is a fairly slim margin percentage wise, and each company struggles to hang on to their customers with other marketing means, as the avenue of lower prices to attract business is exhausted.
Unless you have one company controlling all of an asset, which is not the case with the oil industry, you will have competition that naturally lowers prices. Prices get too high, someone is always out to be cutthroat and slash prices to steal the other guy's business.
If you don't think American business is cutthroat, and the oil companies too, you are mistaken I'm afraid.
Again, basic Economics 101.
Competition applies downward price pressure.
No big conspiracy here. Simple market economics.
me: Totally agree. It is every individual's money, and they can spend that money anyway they please.
you: However, when you buy an inefficient vehicle, don't gripe about gas prices when they go up, since you put yourself in the position.
me: Excellent. And as you point out later, which echoes what I said over the last few days - you should change your lifestyle so that you're not living check to check. Whether it be in your selection of vehicle, how many times you go out to eat, where you live and whether you have a roommate, whether you have family and kids ... you should not have made and continue to make decisions where you spend all you make. If you are making minimal wages you need to work more, look for a better job, and improve your skills. People get by on $20K/year and people go broke with millions - Mike Tyson for example.
93 Octane is $2.99 no-name here in NH. It's been holding steady since Thur.
BTW, travel 100 miles north of NYC last week showed increase from $2.97 to 3.03 by Friday. I have a mid May Ohio to WDC family trip planned and budgeted $3/gal two mons ago, methinks it could be $3.25 at this rate. It was $2/gal in MN in mid Feb. Luckily my Chryslter 300M 6cylinder gets 25mpg @ 70mph, so we'll take our vacation as long as gas is available.
I look at my parents for instance. My dad was a State Trooper and mom a school teacher, so not big money there. The thing is, though, real wise with the money they did have. IF they took out a loan, they skimped somewhere else and paid it off in 1/2 the time to save interest. Paid off the home mortgage early and saved tens of thousands in finance charges, instead of having stuff like the latest plasma TV. Drove cars that were a couple years old, or bought new and drove for 10 years instead of trading all the time. The cars they did buy were modest and under their means. Never carried credit card debt. If they couldn't afford it now, they didn't buy it until they had the money saved.
Now, do you think they are worried about gas prices? Heck, no. They drive a 30 city 40 highway Honda Civic. They are under 60 years old, retired, and have their house paid for and the car paid for. They still don't have the flat screen TV, and happily watch a conventional 5 year old model.
I look at my wife's parents. They have a large farm in rural Kansas and are successful but work real hard. My father in law once said to me, if it doesn't pay its own way, no room for it on this farm. That sort of struck me as cool. They have done well, and could buy any kind of car they want, but other than a farm pickup have a 5 or 6 year old Ford Taurus they bought for a few grand. They don't buy anything until the old item is absolutely worn out and useless. They have a nice, but old, console TV with the wood around it in the living room, looks 1980's to me, but it works. They only got a DVD player when I bought them one for Christmas. They don't even have a digital camera, no need for one to them. They pay cash for everything and don't finance luxury items. They probably financed land and farm machinery at one time, but not consumer goods. They've got money in the bank because they are frugal as anyone I've ever seen, and by choice. They are also among the happiest and least dysfunctional people I have ever seen, too. Salt of the earth. The only issue with them is that high fuel prices sting them when running the combines and trucks necessary to run the farm. Can't really buy a 40 mpg combine, no such thing on the market. Still, I never hear them complain.
Anyway, my point is, two examples of people in my life who have made a conscious decision to live BELOW their means, and not set themselves up to be in a bind. It was done through hard work and years of buying what you need, not what you had to have to keep up with the Jones's.
A lesson that only when I was in my late 20's early 30's did I appreciate it.
Unlike all the paycheck to paycheck folks driving shiny new rides with flat screens on the wall and $100 a month extra fancy cable with 4000 movie channels, griping about gas that is 1/2 what the rest of the world paid 10 years ago.
By the way, called Dad today, in Harrisburg, PA area, $2.89 for regular unleaded.
I like capitalism over socialism...but both Russia and US has a combination of both....here you can still have socialized medicine and services...as does Russia.
However, there are tacit agreements that make gasoline highest in SF bayarea , than the whole nation. When previous mayor Willie Brown threatened to investigate..the oil companies threatened to pull out all thier offices out of SF.....so Mayor Brown backed down.
All the cosmetics industries had an ANTI-Trust suit settled among them...since it was proven that they had conspired to keep lipstick and mascara prices above an artificially set level.
Then you have Enron and its associates.... :sick:
Gas here is $2.97 at the small market...up to $3.59 for full service at a Union76.
That is very good advice..and I agree. Most financial advisers would also agree. Too bad there are too many people who waste money...or complain about other people's choices.
If one can afford it, let them drive their BMW 535, or Mercedes 500, or Cadillac. If they choose a smaller car...so much the better, or worse, depending on your point of view...
our corner gas station gives 5 cents off per gallon on Wed....great customer appreciation day.
I have the cash tomorrow to go buy a new Lambo, but I wouldn't even use it to buy a plasma TV. 25 years ago I didn't have money to buy a Snickers bar, when I was in college. I'd rather have my money making money, so I don't have to sit and whine about gas prices. My '01 Firebird is a better $/hp value than a Lambo. Plus I'd have to blow all 5X my pay just to lead a lifestyle to match the car. Have a good evening all, and figure out how to make more, or to spend less.
You are tied to one electric company. That is a monopoly, and needs to be controlled. Gas is all over the board price wise. I see at least 50 cents a gallon difference around town.
Has anybody put money the energy sector of the stock market to offset costs? I've knocked off much of my heating costs (oil!) last winter because of the growth, and I hope to do it again this summer. (No, I'm not rich or even well off.)
However up here in ithaca it was 3.24
www.mydreamwheels.com
If you don't have the money and are living week to week and paycheck to paycheck, don't try to live an expensive lifestyle. That's what most people are doing in this country. They want everything NOW and are getting into debt by purchasing big SUV's and big houses and racking up their credit cards for STUPID [non-permissible content removed]. The big corporations and the big merchants in this country have these stupid people by the balls. And these stupid people are nothing but slaves to the system and they pay out of their pockets to make big corporations richer and richer. Think about it. This is what is happening in America. People are getting into depper and deeper debt because they are stupid and want to live a "fake" lifestyle of lavishness and wealth. There's no such thing as this unless you are making $200,000 or more. If you make less, you are just a small fish in a big pond waiting to be eaten by the sharks. It's only a matter of time before these people lose everything that they have all because of the stupid choices and financial decisions that they made by owning a big house with a big mortgage and a big SUV with a $600 a month car payment.
These people need to take a course in personal finance and learn how to be frugal.
By adjusting our driving style, we can all reduce our consumption just a bit without impacting traffic pattern and congestion. This will not only save a few bucks a month due to better mileage, but also may reduce the price per gallon.
The government
helps raise prices
It created an ethanol ‘shortage'
and then it taxed ethanol imports
Tuesday April 11, 2006
GASOLINE prices have risen 42 cents a gallon on average in the last six weeks, and likely will top $3 a gallon by Memorial Day. Blaming oil companies has replaced baseball as the national pastime.
But Congress is largely to blame for the recent surge in prices at the pump.
Here is how it works: The federal government is phasing in a ban on methyl tertiary butyl ether, an additive to gasoline.
The substitute is ethanol, which is more expensive than gasoline. Because of a shortage in the United States, there has been a surge in imports..
Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association, a trade group that represents ethanol producers, told a Senate panel last week that any supply tightness would likely disappear within two to five months.
Importing ethanol from other countries is an ironic development, since for decades now Americans have been told that this renewable source of gasoline could lead to energy independence.
Importation also will be expensive, because Congress slapped a 2.5 percent tariff and a 54 cent-per-gallon tax on imported ethanol. Those added costs are now affecting consumers.
On top of that, refineries have had to shut down as they switch from MTBE to ethanol, reducing capacity, and therefore supply.
Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., complained that gasoline makers and ethanol companies have known about this switch since Congress mandated it last July. She said it was unfair for the industry to place the burden now on consumers.
"It's sort of like let's punish the public again for something they had nothing to do with," Boxer said.
But wait a second: Who caused this?
The switch from MTBE is understandable. The ingredient has been found to contaminate groundwater.
But to increase demand for ethanol while slapping a 2.5 percent tariff and a 54 cent-a-gallon tax on imported ethanol is lunacy. Congress contributed to consumers' problem.
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The average is like $3.05 gallon or something very close. The oil/gas company's are raking us over the coals and you are sitting back finding reasons/justification for them being crooks. I bet they are happy some of you are such hard-core capatalist, that they know they have a bunch of americans that get caught up in politics, free-market, etc which is ammo for their smoke and mirrors and are using you as a unfunded alley :confuse:
No offense bricknord, but My POOLING MONOPOLY picture is realistic. Your rosy free market speech you just gave me because isn't because A,B,C,D,E, are all riding in the same ship togeather. Your theory stands correct when pooling doesn't take place.
Rocky