Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

1123124126128129134

Comments

  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Initial purchase price less cost of maintenance, price received when re-sold are the major considerations for fleet purchase. Rentals also must be a vehicle that people WANT to use and will be willing to pay for the privilege.
    Fleet and rental managers would lose their jobs if their purchases did not provide income for the owners/stockholders. The Grand Caravan SE is apparently THE most profitable minivan for fleet and renting purposes. DaimlerChrysler minivans cost the LEAST to purchase and own.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Of course, that's assuming you can buy at a fleet price and/or get the same lease deal. You can't.

    When I worked corporate, fleet operations were under my management. We turned about 700 vehicles a year and were buying Luminas for about $2,000 less than any individual could buy them and they had an extended service contract. I'm sure these rental companies are doing as good or better considering the volumes some are buying. There's a reason Ford, GM, and maybe even Dodge are trying to cut their fleet sales: Very little profit and it has a negative effect on residual values.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I believe it's a asking price, I've never payed close to the asking price for a car! But maybe some people, just pay what people ask! BTW someone wanted 100K for thier van. You should go buy it!

    Asking price/Market price....it's what the market will bare. I'm certain you got your Ody for $2000 below invoice right? while everyone else in O5 was at Sticker!!

    I went over the first 600 vehicles in the prefered Dodge CG all the way down to 16K(asking) 331SE and 279SXT so they are in the majority but not by much.

    I listed them from lowest price to highest price, and by 90% or greater, the first 20 pages were all SE models...Fleet.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "...while everyone else in O5 was at Sticker!!"

    Hey! Can I play too or is this just the dennisctc/socalawd show?

    I've no idea how well socalawd did, but we got our EX-L at a little more than $2k under MSRP back in Feb. of '05.

    I forgot: what are you guys trying to prove now????
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    Ours was about $300 under invoice, with no trade or financing or add-ons to muddle the deal. Seemed like a great price at the time, but better deals in the Chicago area started popping up a month later...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I finally road in the third row bench seat in my 2005 DGC, and can honestly say I didn't like it that much. While many of you have complained about the middle seats, I found those comfortable. Mostly because I had an arm rest, could lean the back of the seat back to a position I liked and could move the whole seat forwards or backwards. I could do none of those with the third row seat. The seat back was to strait for me to get comfortable and I really missed the arm rest.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    "...while everyone else in O5 was at Sticker!!"

    Nope don't know anyone who paid sticker on a EX after about Jan of 2005. I got almost 3K off! Cars Direct was 1800 off at the time. Noone should ever pay more than the carsdirect price. Everyone I've talked gave advice to(8 people)that have come in with the carsdirect price have had it matched or beat it instantly.

    Hey! Can I play too or is this just the dennisctc/socalawd show?


    Play on rorr!

    I forgot: what are you guys trying to prove now????

    He's trying to prove that caravans are mostly fleet vehicles! I think he's doing a great job! :shades:
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Mostly because I had an arm rest, could lean the back of the seat back to a position I liked and could move the whole seat forwards or backwards. I could do none of those with the third row seat. The seat back was to strait for me to get comfortable and I really missed the arm rest.

    The seat back is probably adjustable it is on my Ody. The thing I like least about the Ody 3rd row is the width. I sat back there with my boy and his friend so I could watch The Incredibles on the way to San Diego. I hear there's nowhere to put your feet under the stow and go which also makes it more uncomfortable for tall people. Probably not a problem for children.

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    My aunt didn't get invoice (it was still 2004 for an 05 model, right around Christmas) but still she got it for $27,200...weren't they $28,500 when new (EX cloth)? That's not bad for the new model when her color had to be brought in from another dealership.

    $1,300 below sticker...NOT sticker.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    At least it's YOUR van, and you get to be the one to drive most of the time!

    Did you see how well we stood up for the DCX owners!? We figured you passed out from being startled by our defense of Dodge!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Did you see how well we stood up for the DCX owners!? We figured you passed out from being startled by our defense of Dodge!

    I read a few. But I've been off the computer for awhile because my family was in town and didn't read to many of the past ones. But thanks.

    I don't have a problem with even leg room in the middle or rear seats. My wife and I are both small. She is only 5'1" and I am only 5'6". Leg room is no problem to us. Not sure if third row bench seat back leans or not. I'll have to look the next time I get in it. I know I didn't much like sitting strait up like I did. Still wouldn't like it without the arm rest, even if it does.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "He's trying to prove that caravans are mostly fleet vehicles!"

    Waitaminute - I thought dennis was DEFENDING the DGC? No wonder I was confused..... :confuse:
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    BUT most of them are purchased by individuals or husband and wife with about 25,000 miles on the odometer. My sister and her husband recently purchased a used 2005 Grand Caravan SE with 23,000 miles on it after having OUTSTANDING service and satisfaction from the 1986 Caravan SE they purchased in 1987 when it had 11,000 miles on it.
    The 1986 Caravan had 170,000 miles on it with NO problems when they sold it to a friend.
    They are just one of the NUMEROUS repeat buyers of Caravan/Voyager/Grand Caravan/T&C owners. Many people now drive their 3rd, 4th, or 5th Chrysler minivan because of the reliability and comfort of DC minivans. ;)
    I don't personally know anyone who has purchased their 2nd Honda Odyssey. :shades:
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    No, the third row seat won't lean back, but I see that wasn't the problem after all. It was the headrests. That was what was pushing me forwards. Raise them up and it feels fine. Now all they need is an arm rest in the middle that folds.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't personally know anyone who has purchased their 2nd Honda Odyssey.

    I do, my great aunt - 2000 Odyssey EX, 2005 Odyssey EX.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    No minivan has a middle armrest for the 3rd row seats.
    I thought the 60/40 split 3rd row seats of the DaimlerChrysler minivans also reclined. Now I need to go look at them again.
    I think the Odyssey has THE best folding mechanism for the 3rd row "fold-into-the-floor" seating although the Sienna and DC minivans fold just as easily. I also like the padded armrest of the 2nd row seats in the Odyssey that can be used as seating for an 8th person.
    The Odyssey antenna in the rear side window does NOT work as well for radio reception as the old fashioned mast antenna of other minivans.
    Why can't each manufacturer just copy the best ideas from their competitors? :confuse:
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Congratulations to your great aunt. BTW, Edmunds has also purchased 2 Odysseys: a 1999 EX and a 2005 Touring. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    That makes 2!

    Sadly, she got her car serviced a couple weeks ago, and a tech guy hit her car against a yellow pylon in the lot. It is at the body shop right now, and she is in a CR-V LX at the moment. Needless to say, she wasn't exactly happy about the incident.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    Our 2006 EX-L replaced a 2001 LX that never had a single problem. I hope our 2006 is as reliable.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I also like the padded armrest of the 2nd row seats in the Odyssey that can be used as seating for an 8th person.

    There are also armrests built into the out board 2nd Row seats on both sides of the "chair" (four total for row 2), not just the folded 8th seat. No third rows have an armrest, unfortunately.

    This is a bit of a thin thread, but I was trying to get it going again! Where is everyone!?
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Well, I've was on vacation for a week so I have an excuse.

    We had a rental Pontiac Grand Prix with only 600 miles on it. Definitely not minivan spacious! Not even particularly spacious for a mid size sedan. Back seat headroom was atrocious. My wife who sat in back a few times actually bumped her head on the roof when we went over a few large bumps, and she is not particularly tall, only 5'4". Entry and exit is also a problem with the steeply raked windshield, raked rear window and low roof. The GP has about the fattest A pillars I have ever encountered as well.

    A lot of boy racer styling inside, all red lit instruments with about the biggest oversize speedometer I have ever seen.

    This was a base model with no steering wheel mounted controls. I can't believe GM is still hanging on to that awful stalk mounted cruise control!

    It sure made my wife wish for her 1996 Caravan, or even my 2000 Duratech equipped Taurus, both of which are much more comfortable and user friendly,

    To top it off I didn't notice that the GP was all that exciting to drive, either. Plenty of low end torque, but seemed to run out of horses at about 55-60 mph, and the steering seemed a bit numb as well, and those fat spots on the steering wheel at 10 and 2 were not comfortable to me at all.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'm so SO sorry you had to drive a Pontiac. I drove a friend's 2004 Bonneville (SE, not a top model), and it was pathetic inside. It made me sound like a bird, because all I thought of was "CHEEP! CHEEP!" Not a good testament to GMs quality
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The GP wasn't all bad, it was quite solid, quiet, and rode and handled OK, and off the line torque was way more than enough. Switches and controls had a solid feel. It was well put together with no glaring faults or defects.

    I am not a big fan of black interiors and with the base GP the only thing not black is a bit of brushed aluminum on the steering wheel spokes and around the floor shifter. The interior was boldly styled, but very very black on the version I had.
  • strawboss1strawboss1 Member Posts: 14
    I just bought a 2006 T&C Limited. I am a different segment, middle aged lady with a 56 yr old 6'3" 300 lb. hubby that likes to ride and not drive. I also transport elderly parents and in-laws. When I'm not doing that, I'm transporting 2 dogs, on small and one that's 100 lbs. The Honda didn't work for me because there was no power passenger seat so hubby could turn his seat into a Lazy Boy type ride. The Honda back seats were great for adults, but I didn't like it for my dogs (need stow n go or an easily removable 2nd row seat). The third row seat was comfy, but no leg room back there for adults. The third row on the Chrysler, I was told, must have the headrest up to be comfy. It was designed to be like "stadium" seating, to keep folks from getting car sick, according to the salesman. There's isn't a lot of legroom in the 3rd row T&C seat, but at least the way you sit, higher off the ground, your legs have more room to dangle. From what I've read on these boards, the Honda doesn't get that great gas mileage that it is supposed to, and folks have had trouble with rattles and whistling windshields. I liked the Honda personally, but for my needs, the seats just didn't have the flexibilty of the stow n go, though I know that Honda pioneered the fold flat 3rd seat (and I'm wondering why they didn't pioneer the stow n go). My 80 yr old mother in law tested all the vans and their accessibilty with me, and she thought the Chrysler 2nd and 3rd row seats were the easiest to get in and out of. Mini-vans are great for kids, but for us baby boomer/empty nesters that take elderly folks around, mini-vans are nice for them, too. Plus, they can lay down on that 3rd seat (if they can get back there!), which is something they can't do in a regular car or SUV. My two cents.

    The armrests on the front seats of the Honda were so thin, they hardly seemed worth it. More like a pinky finger rest, to me. I was surprised, after noting the quality of their seats, that the armrests were so dinky.
  • misternlmisternl Member Posts: 1
    My short wheelbase 2000 caravan sport was my dream car when I bought it new, and remains so today.

    Absolutely the most flexible, fun and practical car I can imagine. Reliable, too.

    The flat floor (no center console) is a beautiful feature. Sometimes the Golden Retriever uses that space as her seat. Other times, it's used to pile up lumber all the way to the front of the van. It gives a sense of spaciousness to the car. It's even the key to comfortable front seat sex! 8^o

    Combine that with the short wheelbase (it's shorter than a camry) and you can parallel park this wonder car with the best of them.

    I test drove a 2006 oddysey. It's bigger, overpadded, overpowered and doesn't have a feature level that appeals to me (i.e. no sport/utility trim package). Compared to my caravan, it seems like a fat dowager.

    In 3 years I'll give my beloved car to my teenaged son and head straight to the dodge dealer to buy another one.

    Thank you, Dodge.

    N
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    My nephew got his 2005 Odyssey EX with in excess of $3,000 LESS than MSRP November 30, 2004. His discount was $ 3,404 off MSRP of $ 28,510.
    The same dealership's best price for a 2006 Odyssey was about $ 700 under MSRP in August 2005 (Price quoted on a 2006 when it would arrive after $ 500 deposit to get on the waiting list).
    The dealership NEVER did charge above MSRP in 1999 when the 1999 Odyssey had a 5 month waiting list and dealers in some areas were adding $ 5,000 to $ 10,000 above MSRP for the 1999 Odyssey.
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Member Posts: 249
    I too am very happy with my reliable 2001 SWB Caravan, but in 3 years, they may no longer produce the short wheelbase model.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Does anyone have the number of sales of the Caravan + SWB T&C for this year or last...compared to sales of the Grand Caravan and traditional Town & Country?
    I would like the Caravan IF the 2nd row seats would slide forward and back as they do on the Stow 'N Go GC and T&C while still retaining the traditional rear seating that will slide forward to accomodate more cargo if necessary...or even the 50/50 split 3rd row seats where either half is so easily removed for more cargo space.
    I prefer the seating of my 2002 T&C LX with 2nd row bucket seats and 50/50 split 3rd row to the 2005/06 Stow 'N Go. The 5 middle and rear seating places are more comfortable on the pre-Stow 'N Go DC minivans.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    THANK YOU for 2 most outstanding contributions to this forum.
    I can not understand why the biased written portion in both CR and Edmunds when they praise the Odyssey while overlooking its shortcomings and badmouth DC minivans while ignoring the features that are superior.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The only problem I've found with stow n go is that they don't fit my frame (large, like your hubby at 6'4), and the third row has NO footroom because of the mechanicals under the 2nd row seat occupying any footroom.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    THANK YOU for 2 most outstanding contributions to this forum.

    I gave truedelta information on my van a few times. Got tired of it because they didn't give me the info they said they would.

    I can not understand why the biased written portion in both CR and Edmunds when they praise the Odyssey while overlooking its shortcomings and badmouth DC minivans while ignoring the features that are superior.

    Well don't you think the best way for true delta to get ahead is by going after CR. It's exactly what I would do!! :P I would love it if CR provided numbers in study and problems with better discription(or any discription) and make all data available. I don't think truedelta will do this ethier. I thought you all didn't care what rags said about cars?? :confuse: Seems that if they loved the DCX van you'd be it's #1 fan!! ;) BTW seems it wasn't superior enough for you to buy another one!! :shades:
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    As part of the steady campaign to denigrate the product, there's been some insinuation that the Chrysler mini-vans are "mostly" or predominately sold to fleet holders and hence, by deduction are really not that popular with individual buyers.

    Fleet owners are customers, too. In fact because they are interested in stretching fleet funding dollars they are lacking the emotional interest displayed by the general public. The Caravan in particular has remained a popular vehicle, especially for service fleets. Compared to vehicles from other manufacturers they offer the right combination of low purchase price, reasonable maintenance and insurance cost, and equally reasonable return at end of term.

    Included below are figures from American Fleet. As you will see Chrysler mini-vans are not "mostly" sold to fleets, but remain in large part vehicles that average people purchase. In fact, mini-vans from GM and Ford are sold to fleets in much higher percentages.

    Regards,
    Dusty

    http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf.cfm?action=stat&link=http://www.fleet-- - central.com/af/stats2005/trucks_web.pdf



    http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf.cfm?action=stat&link=http://www.fleet-- - central.com/af/stats2005/ltvsuvfr.pdf
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    As part of the steady campaign to denigrate the product, there's been some insinuation that the Chrysler mini-vans are "mostly" or predominately sold to fleet holders and hence, by deduction are really not that popular with individual buyers.

    Well the numbers don't lie. Over 30% are flett thats quite allot. I keep hearing how huge the sales differance is for the DCX vans compared to Honda. But when it comes down to going into the dealership and real people putting down the money. Even with the price premium and the lack of a SWB van. Honda seems to be doing fine! Instead of 2.5 to 1 it's more like 1.6 to 1.

    Fleet owners are customers, too. In fact because they are interested in stretching fleet funding dollars they are lacking the emotional interest displayed by the general public. The Caravan in particular has remained a popular vehicle, especially for service fleets. Compared to vehicles from other manufacturers they offer the right combination of low purchase price, reasonable maintenance and insurance cost, and equally reasonable return at end of term.

    Oh there is no doubt that the Caravan is inexpensive! If I owned a company I would use them too. But for my family the Honda was the best choice. I wonder what the fleet owners wife's drive. :blush:
  • strawboss1strawboss1 Member Posts: 14
    I agree. The back seats of the mini-vans are a tough sell for adults to sit in. In fact, I'm sure that no grown men will ever sit back there unless it is at gunpoint. Even the captains chairs are narrow, and forget using those armrests if you are the least bit wide.

    Luckily, the adults that I transport are small, elderly women, and never more than two back there at a time, so with one stow n go seat flat, the third seat is not so bad. I was shocked at the miniscule legroom in all of vans for the 3rd seats. I am 5'4", and I think I would be very cramped.

    I've just been seeing ads for bigger, conversion vans (new) in my area for about $25K. I'm wondering now why I didn't go look at those. Never even crossed my mind, and I'm feeling a little green and queasy that I might have missed out on a deal on a van segment that I never really thought about. But, it is done.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Almost all of the original fleet sales are purchased by private individuals within 6 months to 2 years.
    The ratio of DC to Honda sales to individuals remains at the 2.5:1....although some of the DC minivans are owned for a short portion of their life by fleet and/or rental.
    Can't Honda owners understand that the large percentage of used fleet vehicles are purchased by private individuals? :blush:
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Take it for what it is worth http://www.truedelta.com/prices4.php
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Not of much value when comparing an Ody EX with a Sienna LE since a buyer can not delete the items the Ody has to bring the price down as True Delta indicates. (Subtract $ 400 for left power sliding door for example).
  • temp409temp409 Member Posts: 55
    Anyone notice the odyssey looking the cheapest on dashboard features ect. around the radio and other interior features than other minivans this year that almost copy each other like the kia sedonna and toyota sienna? They all look strangely simular but odyessey looks kinda cheap in dash around radio? Dodge is sweet looking on outside but their rear shoulder straps didn't catch in our crash and don't pass the jerk test like other minivans. I did love that caravan and would not of ever wanted anything different until we wrecked it and shoulder straps not catching about killed my daughter. I wish they would fix them rear straps so I could go buy another caravan. For now Im stuck with a 05 Kia sedonna which I love so far but am worried about their maintenance rep. But them seatbelts do catch First jerk!
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Member Posts: 249
    I see you miss your Caravan already. A previous post of yours said you hated it. How is the lawsuit going? Oh I forgot, you are not going to bother to investigate what happened in your case, but are satisfied with the self imposed title of "resident seatbelt jerk (er)" Good luck with the Kia, you're going to need it.
    P.S. How many new 2005 Sedonas are still on the dealers lots? What is your MPG with these expensive gasoline costs?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Almost all of the original fleet sales are purchased by private individuals within 6 months to 2 years.
    The ratio of DC to Honda sales to individuals remains at the 2.5:1....although some of the DC minivans are owned for a short portion of their life by fleet and/or rental.
    Can't Honda owners understand that the large percentage of used fleet vehicles are purchased by private individuals?


    They are obviously moving 6-24 month vehicles in large quantities, but the price point is well below comparison IMHO. I'm sure there is quite a loyal following for slightly used Caravans. Personally, I think you'd be nuts to buy a new one. A $3,000-$5,000 difference between a new Odyssey and Caravan is one thing, but a slightly used Caravan will be closer to $10,000-$12,000 cheaper. If I didn't specifically WANT the Odyssey and just was shopping minivans, that'd be an easy decision. Dealer Ad in this mornings paper: 2005 T&C Touring, loaded 31k miles, $14,995. The more discounted fleet vehicles they sell (particularly to rental agencies) the more slightly used iron that hits the street at huge discounts. This is why all manufacturers are trying to cut-back on their fleet sales.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Dodge is sweet looking on outside but their rear shoulder straps didn't catch in our crash and don't pass the jerk test like other minivans.

    Is someone paying you a buck every time you say "jerk test"? Sorry but a "jerk test" would get you laughed out of any test lab.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    That's about how it was when I was selling my 2001 Odyssey LX last October. At near blue book retail, mine was competing at the same price point in Autotrader with 2005 Grand Caravan models. I'm thinking, why would anyone buy a 2001 minivan with 40-45k miles over a 2005 with 15-20k and presumably a good balance on the factory warranty? I'm still surprised how many calls I received and how quickly it sold.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I think the Ody has the nicest inerior, not cheap looking at all, and simply luxurious in leather. The only thing I think is "cheap" on the low end Odys is the "thunk" of the closing doors. This is based on my official "thunking test". I'll bet there's less insulation in those doors.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    I'm still interested to hear if an experienced lawyer or crash investigator had any comments on whether the seatbelts were working properly or not. A passing grade in my internal "jerk test" will be issued if we hear some compelling reason to believe the continuing spam that all DC 3rd row minivan seatbelts are defective.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    As for noise insulation, I bet the Odyssey has less than other minivans pretty much everywhere...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    The way this country is heading with people suing McDonald's for too hot or too cold coffee, I wouldn't be surprise if someone would be suing DCX for millions due to their crash! Get a sleazy lawyer, cry "jerk test" endlessly and retire to Florida with a few millions!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I agree with you, dennis...say, is your "thunk test" anything like a "jerk test?"

    There does seem to be more noise in the Odyssey, as used to be the case for Accords. For the third time this generation in the Accord (03, 05, now 06), noise insulation has been increased in the Accord line. My Accord is now quieter than my aunt's 05 Ody, although it has less of a box to echo around in.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I agree with you, dennis...say, is your "thunk test" anything like a "jerk test?" It's actually much more scientific, as I use my calibrated eardrums to score the thunking.
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.