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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice landscaping, you must have a lot more available time than me! I can barely keep my lawn below waist level.

    Your cat looks suspiciously like my dog Hadji. ;-)

    Bob: Ditch the two-tone, though it reminds you of the Maybach, and that silly white spoiler on top, and the basic vehicle looks nice. I bet it'll compete with the Freelander and the X3, and just maybe the XT Premium.

    The XC90 is better looking in every way, though.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, so Stephen and I submitted DNA samples, and the lab says Hadji and Zelda are, in fact, identical twins.

    Did you know that your cat is actually a dog? :o)

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    LOL!! Yes, we've actually known for sometime that Zelda is indeed a dog. :-) I suspected she was related to Hadji too.

    Transpecied Cat Lover in Seattle,
    Stephen
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    dead serious. I like Volvos and their styling—a lot...

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    that grill does nothing for me. grills are a real sore point in general actually... hate:

    chrysler
    dodge
    volvo

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You must've liked the original Q45, sans grille.

    -juice
  • rblelandrbleland Member Posts: 312
    To answer an earlier post, in Canada both Hondas and Acura are sold country-wide and the Integra is always an Acura; never heard of/seen a Honda Integra.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Um, it's not uncommon to see all kinds of cars "rebadged" as Honda or Acura or GTR or Type R.

    Here is a lexus-Ford.

    image


    -mike
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    If you gotta have, and you can't steal it....fake it.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think Volvo cars, in recent years, have evolved from some of the ugliest vehicles ever created by man, to some of the best looking vehicles created by man.

    The Volvo grille, with its "no-smoking" slash, has also evolved rather nicely, IMO. I do see negative connotations (literally!) with that slash, however; every time I see it, it's saying "NO, don't do that," as in the red circular/slash no-smoking icon. Because of the success of that icon in pop culture, the symbolism is really hard to get away from. On the positive side, there's absolutely no mistaking a Volvo grille for any other brand, so in that sense, its very successful.

    Getting back to the XC50: I think the Volvo XC90 is among the besting looking SUVs anywhere. The smaller XC50 just builds upon that theme. Also, I think the images you see, are of a concept, and not the final version. I can't believe the production version would get those wheels and tires. my bet is that when it hits the streets, it will be toned down a tad from what you see here.

    Bob
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I agree -- Volvo styling has come a long way, and now is one of the most cohesively styled makes, IMO.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I liked the last gen V/S70s They were nice and boxy and classy. The newest V/S70s with the gouged out rear ends really aren't attractive IMHO.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are the best looking wagons on the market, I think. The back end still looks like it was chopped off by a guillotine—which I love.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I like the chopped off ends on them, very utilitarian. But those cutouts annoy me to no end!

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I agree that Volvo's styling has come a long way. In fact, I think the S-60 is one of the best looking sedans on the market. Now if they could just do something about their reliability ratings...

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does that say "sic" in the rear window? Kind of makes me feel sick.

    I like the latest Volvos, particularly the XC90. I like the V70 too, but the XC70 is a bit overdone. I recall during my test drive counting 7 different interior colors. That's about 5 too many.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    while their sports cars sales slump.

    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5482

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Saw one on the road. Didn't realize it was a Porsche until I got right on top of it. Before that I thought it was an Audi All-road... Pretty sad that you can't pick it out in a crowd of crossovers...

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ugh, more proof that the US market has poor taste. Now the Europeans will have yet another story to prove that we're not true enthusiasts. They'll keep the lean, mean cars like the Alfa 156 all for themselves.

    I'll think I'll go eat a donut and a super-sized meal to go along with my super Big Gulp that fits neatly into my 14 cup holders. Like everyone else here. ;-)

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I have lost some respect for them. I guess it is a business decision. Still don't like it.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It should have been an Audi, that's all.

    Look at the success of the XC90, despite the XC70's existence.

    I'd imagine similar success with the allroad quattro and the "offroad quattro".

    So, same business success and profit, without selling out the Porsche name. Porsche could even handle engineering to earn revenues on it. That would give the Audi a mystique. Everyone wins.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice- That would have been an elegant solution. Trouble is that all manufacturers feel tremendous pressure to have at a least one "SUV" in their line-up. It's the classic "keep up with the Jones" situation.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I know. Heck, I like the Alfa and Maserati SUV designs. Maybe it's that the Porsche is so ungainly looking.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a business decision.

    Their product/business planners aren't dumb. I'm sure Porsche knows full well all the implications and risks of offering an SUV. So far they've been proven right.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Short-term sales success is just one measure, my argument is that it'll cheapen the Porsche name, bruise their image in the long-term.

    Will they still be able to sell 911s for over 100 grand after they become known for selling trucks?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I can't believe Porsche or any company plans on just short term success. They're mapping out their future 10-20 years down the road, I'm sure. Obviously the further out the less clear that plan becomes, but I'm sure they're looking that far down the road.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that Porsche business forecasters don't foresee a big market (10+ years) for their traditional (sports car) product. Political and/or economic realities of the future may point to a different direction for Porsche, and with the Cayanne they're just laying out the foundation for their future.

    The future may not be so pretty for a whole lot of carmakers—including Subaru, if they're not careful. History is littered with long-gone names of great carmakers that couldn't adjust to changing economic and political realities.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    The Cayenne will be an Audi, apparently. The current issue of UK's Car magazine reports that the Touareg/Cayenne will form the basis for an Audi version, based in large part on the Pikes Peak concept. It is slated to replace the allroad, which will not appear in the next iteration of the A6 Avant.

    Hmmm...VW/Porsche/Audi: shades of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury? (Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) )

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    will be built on a stretched wheelbase Touareg, with 3-row seating. Not sure if it will have low-range gearing like the Touareg/Cayenne, however.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    So what you are saying is that Porsche is going to strive to become Toyota? Will we see a 4-door family sedan out of the porsche company in a few years? I find that funny! :)

    -mike
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    You may laugh, but rumour has it that Porsche has been busy working on a sedan that will utilize the Cayenne's powertrain (minus the off-road hardware, I would imagine).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I just find it funny that the marketing people think it'll actually become profitable that way.

    I dunno just seems odd. I'm a big fan of the VW/Audi/Porsche combo, I think that the marketing works nicely:

    VW: low-end, economic versions of the Audis
    Audi: high-end, sedans, performance oriented GTs
    Porsche: Sports cars and convertables

    Why canabalize your sales?

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Don't put words in my mouth.

    I'm saying Porsche is planning for the future, whatever that may be. Branding and image-building takes years to accomplish. I'm sure the Cayenne is a hedge against their core sports car market going in the toilet—which could happen in 10 – 20 years.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    part of VW and Audi. It is a separate company altogether. And to remain separate they feel they need to expand into different markets.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Last I read Porche/VW/Audi was a marriage. I could be wrong but I definitely remember reading that.

    Sports car market going away? This is news to me. Seems like it's been going strong for 100+ years no need to stop now.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Porsche is it's own company. Always has been.

    Bob
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,397
    I agree with a columnist who wrote that the biggest offender is Mercedes. They were the "attainable" top end. (Rolls and Ferrari being less attainable.)

    Now they build cars for the masses. 15 models for under $35K or something like that. Ho-humm.

    Jim
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    The Cayenne/Touareg project was a joint one between Porsche and VW...but Bob's right, Porsche is an independant company. OTOH, VW owns Audi.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you look at Porsche history, they always trip when they stray from their core of sports cars. The 928, 944, 924, etc. are now mostly bad memories.

    The 911 is legendary and the Boxster produces volume while keeping the name intact.

    It would have made more sense to me for Audi to get the SUV and Porsche the sport wagon.

    They don't own each other, but you can't deny they are very closely affiliated and have shared platforms for years. But like I said, Porsche could engineer the Audi SUV and both parties would win.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    what have they got to loose?

    if the cayenne stops selling and making money, discontinue it. simple. done.

    unlike the 911-- if that thing stops making money, they have to figure it out post-haste. it IS their brand. the cayenne for the moment can be just a fleeting opportunity and that's OK.

    I've seen two on the roads, which is fairly rare here given our population and relatively low number of people who could afford one.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You guys are being too rational. ;-)

    But seriously, automotive passion, like for Porsches, is something emotional. It's an aspirational car that you know everybody wants to own but can't.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    why not buy a Chrysler Pacifica? It has MB engine, tranny, suspension, etc. Besides, with leasing now, most (80% according to some reports) luxury brands are leased since the people can't afford them outright. This might end in NY soon.

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    IIRC is not MB it's Caravan. The Crossfire is MB isn't it?

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    correct. and the crossfire is hideously ugly, in my not-so-humble opinion.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    at least I don't think so. Anybody here actually contemplating buying a Porsche, of any sort?

    Porsche is marketing the Cayenne to these folks, and in this order of importance:

    1) Current Porsche owners, who most likely already own an SUV (probably an M-Class or X-5).

    2) Owners of other European high-ticket cars (Jags, MB, BMW) who probably own an SUV.

    3) Owners of high-ticket Japanese cars (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura) who probably own an SUV.

    4) Owners of high-ticket American cars (Cadillac & Lincoln) who probably own an SUV.

    5) Porsche wannabes: Celebrities, professional athletes, drug lords, those who just won the lottery, those moving upmarket from Volvos and the like, and anybody else who wants to part with a large sum of cash.

    The last thing Porsche wants is to see owners of 911s or Boxsters trade those cars in for "somewhat" sporty X-5s and the like. Remember not everyone who buys a Porsche is a car nut. There are probably a large number of Porsche owners who could just as easily get there driving kicks from a somewhat sporty SUV. That being the case, they want it to be a Porsche SUV. Can you blame them?

    So, assuming nobody here is going to buy a Porsche, I really doubt if Porsche Inc. cares what we think...

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    you bet I've considered buying an older 911... 993 vintage, last of the air-cooled motors!

    but no, I'm hardly a new porsche buyer.

    -Colin
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    in person yesterday on I-5. It was black. In my "humble" opinion it's a great looking car. BMW could take some styling pointers from it if some of their latest styling offerings are any indication.

    Stephen
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