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Oh woe is us for not having been smart enough to foresee how fragile the energy supply is. Who could have foreseen that if the population and economy grows and energy development is stagnant that gas/oil and other forms of energy would go up.
I filled up on Shell V-Power 93 for $3.03 Sat. in NH. Oh, here's a tip for some of you. Get a credit card that gives you 5% in points on purchases of gas and food. I've redeemed $500 in points over the last year. The last $100 redemption was for (2) $50 Exxon gift cards.
Good idea. I realized while traveling through AZ, NM & TX that CA is the only state that charges a premium for using a Credit Card. I have gotten used to paying cash. I get mileage with my credit card. I like the 5% thing.
Thanks. That would lead me to purchase from Lukoil before I'd buy from Citgo.
No one is dictating anyone elses needs. But the world is not simply driven by needs. Its is also driven by means to achieve those needs.
I have nothing against people driving SUVs or battle tanks or sports cars or whatever as long as they pay the price and dont bawl about it all the time. If its your choice/need to buy an SUV, go ahead. At the time of purchase, you should be fully cognizant of the fact that gas prices may go up and if they do, you may have to pay more for a 15mpg vehicle. Factor that into your choice and stop screaming of how your 'lifestyle' is being affected.
Also, needs need to be correlated with means. A 23yr old single school droput mother with 3 kids has the greatest need for a $150k a year paycheck. That is undeniable. But that doesnt mean that she will automatically get that.
Similiarly, when I fly internationally, my needs would be fulfilled if I was in first class rather than the cramped economy seat. However, that does not automatically mean I have the full right to be in first class. I need to have the means to be there.
Here is where I differ from you. I also agree with you that 'people will buy a vehicle to maximize the fulfillment of their needs.' But there is a second part to this equation which you forget to mention. They will maximize the fulfillment of their needs within the limitation of their means to achieve those needs. The moment you go beyond your means, you crash and fall.
For good or for bad, resources are limited and there has to be some method of allocation. In the animal world it is brute force. Humans have devised economics and money is the primary criterial based on which resources are allocated. Hence, people with more money will corner a bigger share of resources/indulgences/comforts etc. Thats life. Time and again people have tried to change that (eg communism) and have spectacularly failed.
Lets assume the price of gas went up from $1.50 to $3.00. Lets say a typical family has 2 cars and both get 20 mpg city. They do 10k miles a year. The net increase in gas cost is actually $1500. If a family does not have sufficient fluff to spend $1500 more a year on something 'critical' as they would make their car driving to be 1) they should not be using 2 cars 2) they should reduce number of miles they put on the car by more efficient usage 3) they should not be buying a car which gives 20mpg
Once again I am not demonizing an SUV. A family which buys a V6 car which gets 15% less mileage that a 4 cylinder version and then complains how gas prices are hurting them is worthy of equal scorn. The beauty of a free market is that everyone is allowed to make a choice of what one wants to buy. The breakdown in the current market is that people want to exercise the right to buy anything but will shirk from any responsibility for owning up to the consequences of their choice. When the time to own up comes, they will blame everyone else in sight except for themselves.
"My work partner will not go into a Wal-mart because they are not a Union store"
Texas, is a anti-union state by nature and union stores aren't in the area unfortunately
Unions are a leftover from the 1930s, thankfully the present unions appear to be impotent and are only interested in relieving their members of union dues.
A few years ago GM built a 3 Billion dollar (at the time) automated assembly plant....now defunct because the UAW members would not/could not support building autos in a competitive way. USA labor is now becoming irrelevant and overpriced in a world market, our schools are jokes.
Did you know that the mortgage you took out (the money that the bank paid to the previous owner) is actually some Japanese/European/Chinese guy's savings. Do you know that everytime you take out a loan for something, a good chunk of it is actually some foreigner's savings being used to fuel your spending?
Did you know that companies like Boeing, Caterpillar etc make a majority of their billions of dollars worth of sales and profits outside of this country? Did you know that companies like Intel/AMD/Coca Cola/Pepsi produce goods in other countries and sell them in other countries but book the profit to and pay taxes in this country?
So I am guessing what you are trying to say here is 'we will only buy American/American union made gas/clothes/stuff and hence the rest of the world should not buy any thing american'. That would make perfect sense right
I would love to see something like all import car sales banned here. You could only buy GM/Ford (not crysler, they have a german connection) vehicles made in US. The next day lets say the rest of the world cancels all Boeing orders and says we will only buy from Airbus. That is when I would like to see which unionists prevail - the Boeing ones or the GM ones. Should be fun to watch
I absolutely agree that you should not extend your lifestyle such that you are spending everything you make, unless you are going thru a particularly unique period (just laid off, or just out of college being 2 examples).
If you find yourself with an apartment or house full of stuff, have taken vacations, spend money on cigarettes or alcohol, or any optional spending, and then sit there and complain that becasue gas is $3.00/gal instead of $2.25 - maybe costing you an extra $10/week - you're real problem is your OVERSPENDING.
Similarly if you have a $10K vehicle and find gas is high, maybe you should have spent $5K on a vehicle and used the rest of the $ for a few years gas. Do you know people who bought a new Durango/Charger (hemi)/Ram, who now can't afford to drive it. They overspent. People want, want, want, and some want others to pay their way. Well I'm firmly for everyone paying a fair amount for their police, fire, garbage, schools, gas taxes ... not just those who continue education, work hard, save and invest, and then get hit with the taxes.
Live below your means, and you won't find yourself stressed-out.
Yes.
But to be fair, I don't think that ANY of those in here 'bawling' about the price of gas are driving SUVs. It's been my impression that most of those in here doing the griping and finger pointing regarding high fuel costs are driving something OTHER THAT an SUV.
It's too bad that most people out there like to live like this.
PA-2.932, US-2.906
Yesterday
PA-2.925, US-2.893
One Week Ago
PA-2.956, US-2.906
One Month Ago
PA-2.556, US-2.566
One Year Ago
PA-2.128, US-2.213
These numbers ALWAYS come up in the chats!
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I think you are responding to the wrong person. I fully believe in free trade & open market across the globe. I do wish we were not so easy with our trade agreements where tariffs are imposed. We are getting shafted by countries like Japan on tariffs tacked on to our goods.
are you in the real estate business?
I never heard of them. gagrice you gotta remember West Texas, is like another state from the rest of Texas. We are what New Yorkers think all of Texas is. The Midwestern part around Dallas and East is not the vision Northerners have of Texas. I've only been to Big D a few times and drove through it twice. HWY 287 Amarillo through Wiricha Fall Tx to Dallas and back.
Now my wife who was born and raised OTOH has been everywhere.
ARCO must be a gas station ?
BTW-gagrice most recently all the Diamond Shamrock/Toot and Totums have been re-named Valero.
I hope Costco gets down here. Aren't they the Sams Club alternative ?
I also hope MEIJER makes it down here
Rocky
Rocky
yes...you are so right...it is better to scapegoat than to face up to the fact that all of us need to downsize and save...even the person driving a sedan .
They have far more negative effects than positive than many people never realize. If the government were to requires all vehicles to be safer, there would be no SUV's sold in the USA. The facts show that you are more likely to die yourself and kill someone else if you are driving an SUV than if you were in a car.
NOpe...and I have the government pamphlet, supported by the NHTSA , IIHS, AAA, and Department of Transportation...that supports what I say. Larger vehicles are in general, safer than smaller vehicles. IF government does what you say, they would get rid of all econobox cars first...or all cars period . ( US motorists kill 45,000 thousand Americans each year..) :sick:
SUV's cause far more road damage than cars which way half or less than half the wieght of an SUV.
You are wrong about that. If what you say were correct, then semi's would do the most damage !! FUnny statement...so I asked a CALTRANS engineer about it. HE said It is how the weight is spread out on the road, and all our roads are designed to withstand lots of stress, more than any overloaded semi. The real culprit he said, was the weather....the sun, rain, and uneven human error potholes, which cause further breakdown. YOu are wrong about SUVs.
The Fuel Economy of the SUV is not the major issue, it is the safety. They are by far the most unsafe car on the road for the passengers and the other people on the road. They should not even be allowed to be driven in snow because an SUV is far more likely to get in an accident in wintry condition than a car.
Is that why IIHS gave the suburban a real low lost number of only 54 ? I agree larger vehicles use more gasoline. But are we to ban all sports cars, motorhomes, suvs, trucks, large sedans ? As to snow...SUVs are an indispensable part of digging out of a snow storm.
Most accidents happen due to human error. Maybe 99% of them. Getting driving challeged people off the street is more effective than scapegoating.
Costco is a spin-off from Price Club, which is the first warehouse club store. Sam's is a wannabe copy of Price Club. The Price Club stores were all union. When Costco which was a non-union warehouse group bought out their old bosses at Price Club they left those stores Union. They usually have the lowest price on gas in San Diego.
ARCO is owned now by British Petroleum. They have stations all over the West Coast. Plus refineries out here.
The ARCO station near me went from $3.25 this morning to $3.31 this afternoon to $3.22 about an hour ago. That is bazaar.
Just like old times... I think some of these new foks need to read the 60,000 archived posts on the subject...G
Rocky
P.S. I need to go see where I was born, I might run into to Snoop ya know.
Rocky
Good to hear from you...
Yes...it does seem like old times, eh ? I think it is kinda funny, how the kneejerk reactions happen. People all use gas...they see the high prices....blame SUVs..and then get into their car to drive solo....
what is funny is that they do it with a straight face...?
No one answered my question :: Do you waste more gas when gas is used for your purpose, or when gas is used for other people's purpose ?
YEs...it seems like old times.....kneejerk reactions and scapegoating .....
I agree fully to what you said. People should be cognizant of what they are buying....a Bimmer or Mercedes or caddy or SUv...they all get relatively lower mpg.
Similiarly, when I fly internationally, my needs would be fulfilled if I was in first class rather than the cramped economy seat. However, that does not automatically mean I have the full right to be in first class. I need to have the means to be there.
Excellent point. Actually, your needs may even by fulfilled in economy class...but if you choose to spring for first class...that is your decision and your money.
I also agree with you that 'people will buy a vehicle to maximize the fulfillment of their needs.' But there is a second part to this equation which you forget to mention. They will maximize the fulfillment of their needs within the limitation of their means to achieve those needs.
Here again..I agree totally. But that part ( the part about living within your means) , to the practical me, is normally left unsaid for me. But to the consumerism-mad people who think that they deserve to drive while paying $1.50 gas, it NEEDS to be said. Good point.
People in other countries have been paying 3 times US gas prices for at least 20 years...!!??
For good or for bad, resources are limited and there has to be some method of allocation. In the animal world it is brute force. Humans have devised economics and money is the primary criterial based on which resources are allocated. Hence, people with more money will corner a bigger share of resources/indulgences/comforts etc. Thats life. Time and again people have tried to change that (eg communism) and have spectacularly failed.
Touche ! Excellent point again. I have seen first hand Communism does to people. I saw people who were not willing to be photographed with foreigners, , ""because ',they said sourly, " last time the communist used the photos to persecute people."" This really happened during my last trip 4 months ago.
Once again I am not demonizing an SUV. A family which buys a V6 car which gets 15% less mileage that a 4 cylinder version and then complains how gas prices are hurting them is worthy of equal scorn. The beauty of a free market is that everyone is allowed to make a choice of what one wants to buy. The breakdown in the current market is that people want to exercise the right to buy anything but will shirk from any responsibility for owning up to the consequences of their choice. When the time to own up comes, they will blame everyone else in sight except for themselves.
Hmm....another well thought out, lucid and logical statement. I agree 100%. Now if we can submit it to the media....it will educate them and the masses....
Sigh....you see the light, as do many others :shades:
...but unfortunately there is a large group of people who are either misinformed, non-informed...or in denial....
Thanks for responding to my post. It is a breath of fresh air...Like kernick ....I also really enjoyed it.
at Shell, it was $3.25 for reg unleaded,,,but across the street, Chevron charged only $3.17 for reg.
People were still filling up at both stations....even with such a high difference. :confuse:
I think people are zombied out...they are so addicted to gas that they will pay $10 / gal.
If we want to make a stand , it is now...let us all decrease usage by 10% !!!
WE can do it.... !
Though I am OK with $5 / gal....but many people are suffering....
Guzzler Sales Dip
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i can tell the fuel prices are not yet high enough because at the dunkin donuts i still see people leaving their cars/trucks running while they go inside to get their coffee. so it looks like we'll need yet ANOTHER doubling of fuel prices to get people to stop peeving me like that!
*** BOYCOTT PARKING - KEEP DRIVING ***
Rocky
Rocky
Well I'm not remembering how big the STS tank is ?
It probably gave it about 3 point boost.
Rocky
My usual Sunoco truck stop, Palisades Park NJ - (change from last week)
87 - $2.839 (+2)
89 - $2.939 (+2)
93 - $3.009 (+4)
94 - $3.039 (+4)
diesel - $2.799 (unchanged)
kcram - Pickups Host
Reg. Un-leaded (87 Octane) is currently selling for;
$1.224CAD per litre = $4.18USD per US Gallon
Funny that today WA state is 17 cents above the national average, but a month ago WA was right at the national average. More of that supply and demand I bet!
Well, not so much the demand. Probably on the supply side.
IMO, the primary suspect would be the boutique fuels required in the Seattle area, Portland, and the Salt Lake City area.
See this map:
http://www.willisms.com/archives/boutiquefuels.jpg
Now, take into account that over the last few weeks, the refineries have been in the process of changing over from winter blends to summer blends, for each of these different markets. And it is also possible that each seperate market may require the changeover to occur at different times (I don't know how much latitude the refineries have to make the changeover at times of their choosing).
Am I saying that ALL of the price delta is due to the boutique fuel issue? No. But I do think that most of it is.
Also found something interest with the GAO:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05421.html
In part, it contains this little nugget:
"The proliferation of special gasoline blends has put stress on the gasoline supply system and raised costs, affecting operations at refineries, pipelines, and storage terminals. Once produced, different blends must be kept separate throughout shipping and delivery, reducing the capacity of pipelines and storage terminal facilities, which were originally designed to handle fewer products. This reduces efficiency and raises costs. In the past, local supply disruptions could be addressed quickly by bringing fuel from nearby locations; now however, because the use of these fuels are isolated, additional supplies of special blends may be hundreds of miles away."
Also, I see only three counties on that map selected for special fuels...yet some of the priciest areas are not in that selection.
I am sure there actually is some legitimate reason for part of the gap...but I don't think "part of" is good enough.
"Also, I see only three counties on that map selected for special fuels...yet some of the priciest areas are not in that selection."
I'm not surprised. Since those 3 counties represent a fairly large percentage of the driving population in your state, it MAY BE that the refineries have devoted MORE supply of the 'boutique blend' to that area. Of course, this means LESS of the 'normal' gas to the surrounding counties. Leading to pricier fuel in those areas.
Hey fin, I'm just trying to give a theory for a rational explanation. Is ALL of the gap 'legitimate'? Unfortunately, what qualifies as 'legitimate' gets us back into (past) discussions best left alone.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/AUTO01/605050379/- 1148
Rocky
http://info.detnews.com/poll/result.cfm?topic=wait_for_cheap_gas&end
Rocky