Scion xB - Hip to be square

reneleblanc · July 2004

Hi, I just bought a 2005 Scion xB here in Scottsdale Arizona. It was 109°F here yesterday, and the A/C was completly adequate. We've had the car about a week and have been doing a lot of city driving all around Phoenix, and the temperatures have been above 105° the whole time. I think the A/C unit is completely adequate.

scootertrash · July 2004

I'm in Scottsdale too- Getting the front windows tinted helped a lot too.
Did you buy it at "Right"?

milkman · July 2004

Just wondering if any scion owners were previous/current echo owners and what your comparisons are between the two?

micweb · July 2004

There is now a technical service bulletin on early production xA and xBs. Apparently the flap controlling flow from the heater wasn't working well and was mixing hot air from the heater into the cold air from the aircon unit, thus impairing the aircon. My car is in the shop to check the aircon again and to see if this TSB will solve the problem.

If you call Scion customer service and give them your VIN, they can tell you if the TSB applies to your car.

Apparently they fixed the problem during production, so later units are not affected.

micweb · July 2004

I had both for a while.

The Scion, although aimed at the youth market, is much more upscale in terms of sound proofing, materials, finishes, and features. Although you can't buy a stripped down Scion, like you could an Echo, when they are similarly equipped, the Scion has more bang for the buck.

The trunk on the Echo was outstanding, however, and on the Scion there is nothing to compare; on the xA you get virtually no "trunk" space, while on the xB, the additional wheelbase length goes to front seat/rear seat room, and the "trunk" is also pretty small, though not as bad as on the xA.

Since the xA and xB are heavier than the Echo (that soundproofing etc.), they are geared lower and are both slower than the Echo and turn higher rpm at freeway speed. My xA stickshift has an annoying drone between 60-80, not surprising given it it hitting 4,200 rpm at 80 mph.

Handling is a lot better on my xA, but ride is horrible.

milkman · July 2004

I also owned a stripped down two door echo. I loved the echo, but wanted more versatility and more features. So I traded the echo for an Xb. I agree that the scion seems more upscale, but the echo certainly was quieter and smoother feeling at higher speeds. The scion is a stiffer ride with excellent handling. the Xb's seats seem more comfortable and all the standard features are welcoming along with having four doors again. Also the cargo area with the rear seat/s folded down is a bonus although the Xb's cargo area with the seats up is smaller. Passenger room in the scion is pretty amazing too. The echo is a somewhat smoother ride and better gas mileage and the scion Xb handles better with more room and versatility. I was also surprised that the 2005 Xb's insurance is cheaper than a 2002 echo. My girlfriend still has an echo so iI didn't feel so bad giving up the echo. Overall, I think the echo and Xb are both excellent vehicles. I Dodo think you get more for your money with the Xb. Now I hope the Xb is as proplem free as the echo having all the power options, ABS, stability control, and traction control.

ateixeira · July 2004

Cargo space is limited, I wonder if they could design the 2nd row seat to slide forward a bit. It has almost too much rear leg room.

-juice

scootertrash · July 2004

Does anyone know the TSB number on the A/C issue?

scootertrash · July 2004

Here's my 6000 mile MPG update:
Heavy foot, automatic, AC on 100% of the time:
26 city, 30 hwy

milkman · July 2004

Has anyone read the august issue of consumer reports yet? It rated rated both the scion xa and the xb. Only the xb was recommended though. What are your thoughts?

micweb · July 2004

I hope I get around to checking this out at the newstand...but in the meantime, can you tell us -

what they thought of the aircon, if anything?

what they thought of the rpm or noise level, if they drove a stick? or for that matter with an automatic?

what they thought of the ride?

what they thought of the acceleration?

My current thinking on the xA is that if it got the Civic or Corolla drive train, it would be a sweet ride, but otherwise, like the Echo, it has to work wy too hard at freeway speeds to be any fun these days (it would have killed Austin Healey's bug-eyed Sprite, Sunbeams, and Triumph's, but that was back in the '60's....).

roketsciontist · July 2004

Well, I've been working 3rd shift all week and had a long drive home...so I ran an experiment to see the best MPG that I could achieve on my 2005 xB manual transmission: 44-2/3 MPG straight highway driving along relatively flat I-94 with very slow acceleration and a maintained speed of 55-60 MPH (Yes, this is very slow for this highway) and no A/C. Mind you I only usually get between 32-35 MPG on the highway because normally I am driving 72-78 MPH, and unfortunately the engine drones at these high speeds unless I cover it up with the stereo volume. My plan to help alleviate some of the drone and high RPMs is to put larger diameter tires (25"+)...of course I'll have to put a note underneath the spedometer to remind me that I am going faster than the spedometer reads [I wonder if that theoretically extends my warranty coverage?]!

ateixeira · July 2004

Make sure you have clearance in the fenders to go that much bigger. Tires might rub the fender lining or the strut bases.

-juice

scootertrash · July 2004

Here's a great tool for calculating tire sizes:

http://miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

I put 215/45-17 on mine, they have the effect of a 3.7% change in final drive and fit perfectly.

ateixeira · July 2004

17s? Cool. What's the stock size? 15"?

Watch unsprung weight. Good wheels are light.

-juice

milkman · July 2004

Consumer reports did not mention the airconditioning. However, they did say that both scions had a stiff choppy ride and excessively noisy/buzzy engines with both transmissions(auto/manual). they said the xb's ride is stiff and jittery, with bumps coming through as pronounced kicks. They said the xa's ride transmits bumps as stiff,rubbery shots. Both had excellent handling. the xb averaged 30 mpg with the automatic overall and 32 mpg with the 5 spd. The xa averaged 30 mpg with the auto and only 31 mpg with the 5 spd. They said that both had high quality interior materials with very good fit and finish, but they really did not like the " overly complicated audio system " The xb was praised as having such a roomy interior. Some also complained that the pedals were to close while the steering wheel was to far away. The xb was recommended, but the xa scored to low in their tests to be recommended.

milkman · July 2004

Seeing that the xb's manual transmission is geared much lower than the automatic and the echo, does this increase engine wear on the manual xb?

scootertrash · July 2004

Yes, the engine in an automatic will last 400,000 miles and in the manual, 375,000 miles

metalguitar · July 2004

I would like to know how people that own the xbs rate them for driving in snow climates? They were just released here in Wisconsin. I need to know if they have good traction etc.... Are they too low for a winter climate, such as Wisconsins?

s0i0d · July 2004

Still waiting for the new Golf but in the meantime if my old car dies I'll need a new hatchback. Right now I am in SC but may move north next year (MN, WI or MA depending on job offers). Would Scion xA or xB be good options? Or should I go with a 4-wheel drive? (Subaru impreza). Thanks in advance for any input!

akreit · July 2004

I am thinking of buying a used 2004 Scion xB. The seller wants to get a more affordable used car and get rid of the remaining debt on this one, she is selling the car for what is left on the loan. The remaining loan amount is about $13,500 but the transaction won't be taxable I would save about $2,000 from the price of a new Scion w/taxes. The only extras on the car are the floormats and it has about 4,000 miles on it. Her interest rate is 6.35 though I plan to pre-pay most of the principle up front on whatever car I buy.

I ran a VIN check and took it for a test drive and there is nothing wrong with the car. My main concern in buying a car is getting a good value but now that the 2005's are out, I wonder if it makes more sense to put down the extra money for a 2005.

I need to make the decision ASAP and would appreciate any thoughts people might have.

roketsciontist · July 2004

How do you buy a car without paying taxes? 6.35 percent sounds pretty high...you should refinance it for a lower rate if your credit rating is good. Very seldom is a car worth what the loan balance is on it within the first two or three years because of initial depreciation that vehicles get when you drive them off the lot new...you should negotiate fair market value for the vehicle and make her eat up the difference! I believe fair market value would be the sticker price less 8% depreciation less 16 cents per mile.

automatic · July 2004

I hope you checked on the sales tax issue with your state's Dept of Motor Vehicles...there may not be "sales" tax applicable, but there could very well be a use tax or transfer tax that is similar in percentage to the sales tax that will need to be paid for the title and registration to be issued.

roketsciontist · July 2004

That formula refers to fair "dealer retail" market value, so whether you are willing to pay that much to an individual is up to you!

tpat3 · July 2004

I took delivery of mine in late March, so not much chance to try it during snowy weather here in Boston. We did get a few storms that left some slop on the road and it was fine. Remember, the little box has traction control. As for ground clearance, think there is something like 6.5 inches, so it's not as though you are scraping. I'm not anticipating any problems unless we get a major storm, in which case I'll wait for the plows anyway.

ateixeira · August 2004

CR was a little hard on them, you have to account for the pricing, me thinks. Base model with a manual is a bargain.

The Mazda3 they liked cost almost $19 grand, that's steep.

As for taking over payments, I think you'll most likely have to get a new loan and pay the old one off. I'd do that anyway, to get a better rate.

I'd look at that car very, very closely, though. Buyer's remorse after just 4000 miles?

-juice

paulnnau · August 2004

I read the first 12 pages of posts and didn't see my question addressed so I thought I'd write in... I see people saying it's SUV-like and others saying it in no way compares to an suv. I've been in the market for a small suv and have seen XB's on the road and they look pretty cool. They've got the size I'd like, not too huge like an suv but not wagonish like the matrix. I understand it is low to the ground, but the drivers seat... is it low to the ground like a car would be, or is it higher up more like an SUV or mini-van?

rob999 · August 2004

...is somewhat in-between a "regular car" and an SUV.

scootertrash · August 2004

Here's a crazy idea: Go sit in one and let us know what you think.

paulnnau · August 2004

so that's why I was wondering. Next spring when I go to buy one, I'll let you know!

ateixeira · August 2004

Try to take a long test drive to see if you find the seating position comfortable. For any car, I guess. We're all shaped differently.

-juice

paulnnau · August 2004

sequence704 · August 2004

Is there anywhere to get the spoiler cheaper than through the dealer?

I know the spoiler is dumb but honestly, from a design standpoint, I think it really completes the car (as well as give it a more horizontal stance instead of looking so tall and awkward)

scootertrash · August 2004

eBay

moparbad · August 2004

How much is dealer price? I found it for $238
http://www.partznet.com/toyota/scion/accessories/XBREARSPOILER.ht- ml

scootertrash · August 2004

$238 is a good price for a factory one.

There are painted to match aftermarket ones on eBay for $209 and a bling-bling carbon fiber one for $109

tpat3 · August 2004

It is taller than a sedan and shorter probably than most SUVs. There is really nothing about this car that is SUV-like, except cargo room with the rear seats folded. It really does not ride as low as it appears.

ateixeira · August 2004

Get the carbon fiber one and just paint that.

I'm sure it's not real carbon fiber. Usually it's just a paint effect they apply in layers using netting.

-juice

carglow · August 2004

Does the rear seat come all the way out of the xB?

yellowjacket · August 2004

I live in central Florida and have owned my Xb for about six weeks. The a/c works fine after about 30 seconds of engine speed of at least 2000 rpm. Once it gets going I do not notice any problems. Normal daytime temp. has been about 90 to 93 degrees with high humidity.

yellowjacket · August 2004

I am 6'1" and do not find the seat to be low to the ground. It is surprisingly high.

yellowjacket · August 2004

The styling is not for the faint of heart. My wife and I really like the styling. You would be surprised at how many people come up to get information about it whenever we park the Xb.

carglow · August 2004

If you had to do it again would you still purchase an xB?

scootertrash · August 2004

Abslutelypositivlydefinately, yes.

xb_wv · September 2004

I now have 1,200 miles on my xB automatic. I really like the car. I have noticed some minor (?) problems and would appreciate your observations.

1. There is a slight high-pitched twirling or ringing like noise coming from the engine or transmission under light acceleration. The dealer said he didn't hear anything abnormal and that everything would sound different after 5,000 miles.

Has anyone noticed such a noise? Any comments?

2. The automatic transmission's shift from 1st to 2nd seems sloppy at times compared to higher gear shifts, which are almost seamless.

What are your observations?

Maybe I am overly concerned, but I just want to make sure everything is right with the car. Its a great car for me.

I have been reading this forum for months and am very much impressed with the car knowledge of many members. I would appreciate any comments.

ateixeira · September 2004

1200 miles is just starting to break in. It's still green and should loosen up over the next year or so.

As to the tranny, the ratio change between 1st and 2nd is the largest step, which could explain why you feel that shift the most.

-juice

carglow · September 2004

Did you own a small Toyota car, e.g. Corolla, Tercel, Echo, etc ..., before your xB purchase?

Besides the obvious increase in interior room how does it compare?

milkman · September 2004

I previously owned an Echo. I really enjoy both vehicles. The Echo is quieter and accelerates faster due to the higher gearing and lighter weight. However, the xB feels more stable and handles better. The xB interior feels more expensive and the xB definitely wins the cool factor. The only thing I really miss about the Echo is the 40 + mpg although I can live with the low 30's I've been averaging with the xB. Overall I love both vehicles and would recommend both.

trex212426 · September 2004

The seating is similar to that of an mini-van! I just bought mine 2 days ago and i still can not believe how high i feel as well as the size of the windshield!

stevengordon · September 2004

How is ride quality for the xB compared with the ECHO and with other small cars, particularly the Civic or Corolla?

Most roads around my town have rough pavement, with lots of patches and bumps. Not sure if the xB would be tiring to drive around town when you get to know all of the imperfections of the road and are wincing even before you hit the rough pavement or bumps.

Scion xB - Hip to be square

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