'Tis true - Willcox was completely ignored. In fact, I have taken that trip about 20 times in the last 11 years and I can't recall ANYTHING about Willcox other than the road sign indicating it's there.
PS Phoenix gas is $2.19, down a whole TWO CENTS in the last 30 days !!
just testing you, larsb! Just checking to make sure someone from the big city of Phoenix wouldn't find something desirable in our fair town of Willcox! I'm gonna go take the hike to Fort Bowie in the next few days, if it's warm enough. For those who don't know, Fort Bowie is where Geronimo was held after being apprehended by the U.S.Cavalry many moon ago. That's right by the tiny Arizona town of Bowie, about 25 miles east of Willcox. The wild, wild west.
lars...looks like they have you over a similar barrel 200-odd miles up north in Phoenix for ghastly, around $2.24/gal for 87 no-lead?
The local Speedway, Jewel and Sonic had the same. The Shell & BP @ work is running about $.05 higher for regular up to a dime more for the upper grades. The Speedway in Warrenville is running $2.219 for regular.
Prices have been falling for the past couple weeks :shades:
Dear Mr. Singleton, just because you drive a hybrid and live in AZ doesn't mean that you should believe that the gas stations, oil companies, etc are not gouging us at the pump in California. They are and should be ashamed of them selves. If you haven't noticed, this forum is mainly for people to advise others of the price for fuel in their area's and complain about the Oil Rich Trillionaires. :P
Firstly, just because I live in AZ does not mean I cannot read and/or have no life experience. I was in CA in the early 1980s and the same conspiracy talk was around in those days too. The fact is that if that (illegal gouging) was going on in 1983, then it would have been stopped by now.
Secondly, my response to the gouging issue was a RESPONSE to another post, not an item I proposed or initiated.
Now, IMHO, "gouging" is a gas station charging too much for a gallon. Oil Company Profiteering is when the oil companies overcharge the retail outlets and rake in huge profits. In CA, I don't think gouging is going on, but there might be a little bit of profiteering.
But since CA makes such a huge gas tax revenue on higher prices, the Governator and the Legislators might not be in a hurry to slow that profiteering down.
Yesterday on 01-20-07 I filled up my tank. $2.79 per gallon for regular unleaded 87 Octane. After driving about 20 miles I saw an Arco Station that was selling the same fuel for $2.46 per gallon. That has to be gouging, right? 20 miles apart from each other, in the same State & County yet one is charging $.33 more per gallon. I put in 23 gallons. So that means I over paid $7.59 for the fuel I bought yesterday. If I was to do this everytime I filled up through one year I would over pay $11,385.00. Please don't tell me that gouging is not going on in California. Unless you are profitting from it, then I can understand how someone might defend the Oil Companies and Fuel Stations. By the way, they used to be called Service Stations. That's because when a person got fuel they also received free service, oil checked and added to if needed, all the windows washed, tire pressure checked and added to if they needed air, etc. Now not only do not provide any service and rip us off at the pump standing behind closed doors luaghing at us, they can't even put a simple air hose at the pumps anymore. What a bunch of crap. What happened in America that we have changed so much. Why are the people here so lazy and don't care about anythng besides taking money out of each other pockets. It sick'n me to see how bad America has come in the past 25 years. At this rate in another 25 years we will not be any better off than the 3rd world countries. It is creeping up on us very slow, so we don't pay attention to what is going on. It's time for all of us, even me to just wave at the cars or people as we pass them. Time to set the clock back and enjoy life. It can happen and would if you only beleive. Have a Nice Day and an even better Tomorrow.
Well, we could set the time machine back to 1950 or so. Everything "seemed" more orderly then (as least, from what I have read and what movies of the time seem to portray). That is, as long as you were white, male, middle-income, able-bodied, and living in the US, Canada, or maybe Australia. Of course the Russians had just tested the A-bomb and the Cold War was in full swing.
But just gas up your '49 Mercury with "ethyl" for 19 cents a gallon, go cruisin,' and forget about those woes so far away....
Sorry, but I just have to say it, Bla, Bla, Bla. You seem to be one of those type of people who like to blame everyone else for their problems. What ever, get over it. Life goes on. This doesn't change the FACT of this forum talking about the gas prices and how the American People no mater what are color, race or sex is are being gouged.
Are you talking to me? I thought you were blaming everyone else -- those nasty profiteering oil companies, gouging gas station owners, and your preening "governator." Throw in Nancy Pelosi too.
Why don't you just move to Virginia, where I live -- where taxes and gas prices are lower and the state government is well run? Our state doesn't win those "best-managed state government" awards for nothing, you know.
Hey, I ought to know, I'm a native of Pennsylvania, the state that seems to have invented corruption.
RE: gas prices -- the local Sheetz dropped theirs by 6 cents for all grades (except diesel) -- down to $2.03 for 87. Others have now copied, with Valero one cent less.
Still more than the $1.98 I paid last week 35 miles from my home.
>Our state doesn't win those "best-managed state government" awards for nothing, you know.
Are you serious? I hadn't heard about those awards. We were stuck with convicted Taft in Ohio. We just got corruption without the awards. Grin.
Gas prices jumped Friday from $1.80 and less to $2.099 at 75% of stations. Today it's back down to $1.81. There must have been a crude oil price of there's a great amount of gouging or overpricing going on whichever you want to call it.
in my Sportage 4x4's LR tire. I backed up to the air hose, parked the Sportage and walked back to the little stand the air hose takes quarters at. 75 cents!
I've been having service places keep my tires properly inflated for so long and now I live in this little cow town in SE Arizona and barely put 50 miles on the Sport in a week. So, I don't need lube-oil-filters very fast at all, the Sportsman doesn't run up miles very fast, etc.
Well, that also means that I don't follow my tires air pressure much because I am used to LOF's every month or month and a half and service dudes just check my air and top it off, etc. I need to do it myself now and indeed my LR tire needed several pounds of air pressure blown into it.
The point of my post is that it now costs 75 cents for air! Ya gotta be kiddin' me! Back when I got my own air more often when I was a youngster I always paid 25 cents. The good news is that the LR tire is holding that air I pumped in quite well and doesn't seem to have a leak. Wow...time and higher costs do seem to just keep marching on, don't they?
87 no-lead in Willcox, AZ, is sitting at $2.24/gal at the Circle K.
Many stations have added those here. Must be a sell campaign by the same people selling redllight cameras and speed cameras as moneymakers. However some say free for customers--see cashier inside to turn on unit.
Yeah, there really is such an award, by a magazine that covers such things. Our state really does seem to be well-run, no lie, and we have a good balance of decent services with low taxes. And I say this as a "come here," not a native.
When I was a youngster, air was always free. Those pay machines started going in around 1980 or so, as I recall. Luckily, Amoco stations always kept air as a freebie; don't know if Amoco exists out west (they've merged with BP). I probably have paid for air less than 10 times in my life.
I'm lucky now in that we have a big air compressor at work -- so not only is the air free, but it's always bone dry.
I remember when gas station attendants wore nice uniforms, checked the oil, cleaned the windshield, and checked the tires' air pressure. Of course I was about four years-old at the time sitting in the back seat of my Dad's 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne. Heck, the guy would have a nice conversation with my Dad and even say hello to us kids. Shoot, today you don't even interact with a human being. You simply swipe a debit/credit card and hope the pump works.
Heck, I could go back to 1950 and enjoy myself immensely because I knew the Russians wouldn't blow us up. Maybe I'd even catch the World-Series bound Phillies down at Connie Mack Stadium.
"... yet one is charging $.33 more per gallon. I put in 23 gallons. So that means I over paid $7.59 for the fuel I bought yesterday. If I was to do this everytime I filled up through one year I would over pay $11,385.00."
HOW MUCH in one year?
At $0.33/gallon "gouging", and $11,385.00, that would mean you would be consuming 34500 gallons of fuel per year. Even if you only get 20mpg, that means you're driving nearly 700,000 miles in a year.....
I could give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're a trucker. But considering you're buying unleaded gas 23 gallons at a lick, I don't think that's the case. If you're managing an entire fleet of vehicles, it might behoove you to look around for the lowest price.
BTW - 'gouging' insinuates (in my mind at least) FORCING you to pay more for a product than the general market price. Did anyone FORCE you to buy gas at $2.79/gallon? As much harping as you seem to do related to the 'gouging' issue, it would seem as though you, AS THE CONSUMER, would look around for the lower prices and only purchase from those retailers.
Or is it the government's responsibility to hold your hand and make sure that you don't overpay?
Holding steady at 2.75/2.85/2.95, even with declining oil prices and dropping prices elsewhere. All supply and demand/legitimate free market factors at work, I am sure.
I wonder if this atrocious regime will give another $20BN dose of reverse socialism before it is ousted.
Something to keep in mind when talking about services and taxes in respective states. We all pay federal taxes and the feds then turn around and distribute this money. Not all states receive equally. In Virginia they receive $1.66 in federal spending for every $1.00 paid in federal taxes. In California its a different story. They get 79 cents back for every dollar put in. California has the 7th biggest economy in the world so were talking about a decent sum of money. It would be interesting if CA said to the feds, we're going to go it alone. We'll keep our dollar and you keep your 79 cents.
"Holding steady at 2.75/2.85/2.95, even with declining oil prices and dropping prices elsewhere. All supply and demand/legitimate free market factors at work, I am sure."
Interesting.
A quick check of other Chevron stations in the greater Seattle area reveals one station at 2.45 for unleaded with another half dozen in the 2.55 to 2.60 range.
Conclusion: since all the Chevron stations in the Seattle area are getting their fuel from the SAME REFINERY (and, presumably paying the same wholesale cost), it appears the only 'gouging' that may be going on is at the local, neighborhood level.
I'm not real sure how the current 'atocious regime' is anymore beholden to your local Bellevue Chevron station than at other Seattle-area Chevron stations charging 0.20 to 0.30 less per gallon......
The free market factors at work are: local hoity-toity Chevron dealer charges $2.75/gallon for unleaded......and people actually buy it. Maybe, just maybe, if people didn't PAY that amount, he wouldn't CHARGE that amount.
where 87 is now under two bucks a gallon, but it's mainly at membership places like Costco or Safeway (when did Safeway start running their own gas stations? :confuse: )
I think the local Shell on my way in to work is down to about $2.259 per gallon.
VA gets a lot of federal tax money back I'm sure because of all the defense facilities here -- the Pentagon for one, and the huge naval base in Norfolk/Hampton Roads. I didn't check out your link, but if such anomalies are not accounted for, then analyses like this one are flawed IMO.
It sounds like the new Congress is going to take away some of the oil industry's sweetheart deals. IMO, that's a good thing but it won't bring down the price of gas. If anything it will have the opposite effect.
What I'm saying is that all the Seattle-area Chevrons get their fuel from the same refinery and the same distributor; yet prices are wildly different.
Why?
Is it the fault of the 'Big Oil' company or the distributor? Or maybe the wildly divergent local prices are due to the business decisions of the (surprise!) local owners? You ALWAYS seem to want to point the finger at either 'Big Oil' or the current 'atrocious regime' in the WH (assuming there's actually a distinction between the two in your mind). Yet, it appears as though where the 'gouging' occurs is at the local level.
Yes, the local neighborhood station is more convenient to you. Apparently it is more convenient to enough other folks that your local station owner can get away with charging more money.
However, if his prices are TOO high, then folks might start balancing the 'convenience' of going to the local station vs. the higher prices. This is an examply of "supply vs. demand" on the local level. Apparently, that station owner still has enough "demand" for his product at his price that he can still charge more. These are market forces.
"Maybe if we subsidize the industry some more, things will change."
Yep. Probably would. Of course, if we subsidized LESS (or not at all), things would also change. Your point?
I am not saying who is at fault, I am simply saying the pricing schemes don't add up. This is no free market in action. Oil prices fall, gas prices don't. We get these stories about how we are charged for future gas (instant price rise when oil spikes), but then we get to pay for present gas (delayed or no price decline when oil falls). I noticed an ARCO near me (gas I have been told to steer clear of) charging 2.95 for premium. Why would a higher end brand be a mere 2 cents more than the low end? Why do the gradients change? Sometimes 10 cents, sometimes 20, sometimes 12? None of it can be justified. None of it makes sense. All I get is a pie in the sky justification.
With windfall profits, why is American style socialism to aid oil companies needed at all? Neocon economic policy...gotta love it. Really gets some Tejas pants in a bind when the worst regime in American history is taken to task. Maybe we can "escalate" that UNJUSTIFIABLE corporate welfare, too. 20BN? Petty cash. They need 100BN!
how long ago did you notice all these things you are complaining about in the oil industry? You seem to imply that all these things just now started happening since the year 2000 or so.....And that's just not the case.
The oil companies have had the government (and us) by the juevos for many decades. There is just too much oil and gas money to be had for the government to try and crack down on the situation. The tax revenue and the kickbacks and the lobbyist money is just too powerful, and there is not much to be done about it.
Sure, a "new Congress" can do what it wants and pass all it wants, but the bottom lines will just MOVE AROUND to different people. Nothing the congress can do will bring back 99 cent gas.
It's all a give and take politically-driven scenario.
PS Phoenix prices are $2.13 - $2.19 for the cheapest.
Your local station owner has a SUPPLY of fuel at $x.xx/gallon. He finds that he still has adequate DEMAND for fuel even when he charges $2.75/gallon.
He makes an assessment of how much the DEMAND would go UP if he LOWERED his price (would it be enough to offset the lower per unit price?). He also makes an assessment of how much DEMAND would go DOWN if he RAISED his price (would it be enough to offset the lost business?).
Oh wait....I forgot. You want a justification that DOESN'T involve that pesky old supply/demand concept. Silly me.
it's related to the stock market and how the average consumer is burned by some dorks yelling out numbers and waving their hands trying to out-duke the nincompoup next to them. Oh, a recent speech said revenues are lower for WalMart.
What could that mean? Oh no! If WalMart revenues are down then WalMart is gonna have to raise their prices of Cesar dog food 25 cents. If WalMart raises their Cesar dog food prices 25 cents, then the couple in Willcox, AZ, whose Pomeranians love Cesar and need Cesar dog food, will have to forego shopping at WalMart and instead shop at Dollar General. Because Dollar General only charges 75 cents for Cesar and WalMart, who used to charge 71 cents for Cesar has just raised their prices for Cesar to 79 cents.
Meanwhile, WalMart stock drops $3.00/share due to earnings shortfalls. Not just Cesar has gone up, also oranges are frozen in California! Yeeee-hhhaaaaawwwww-rrriiigggghhhttty-oooo! Raise those prices. On and on and on we go. The enormous pressure to slatify investor-dips translates to an overly nervous worrisome cataclysm of nail-biting euphoria that, unfortunately seriously affects the standard consumer out there. Some 300 million Americans and growing daily.
My point of this is that stock traders and the stock exchange and how greed money affects layoffs and hiring and price reductions and price hikes is also a majorly screwed-up manner of doing day-to-day business.
I mean, if a speech in Philadelphia can cause panic and by standard procedure of panic and shrill prices are then negatively affected immediately is dopey and short-sighted and just plain dumb. It's broken and the oil industry leads the greed pack.
Oh, let's not leave out the health care industry. Don't worry if they don't have health insurance, as long as we have health insurance. Yikes. Better dicker on that with a few hundred dorks standing around yelling out bids at the top of their lungs! I mean, does anyone else see something really, really stupid here besides me? Who makes up this way of doing business?
Do we get a vote on that method if y'all can agree on who's to blame for making this stupid business system up in the first place?
Back to health care. Have the Fed's ever come to any conclusion on why its OK for drug companies to play numbers roulette for years trying to invent a numbers formula tha will click and make a new cancer-fighting drug...and then, if they do, all of us pay for it by charging about 25 times more than the drug's worth?
No, change it back to oil care. The oil care industry is just as blessed with outright greed. Let's stick to ghastly here. Would you let me know when you can splane this in a manner that makes good business sense? And common-sense sense?
ANN ARBOR, Mich. — A new survey of automakers, suppliers and industry pundits predicts that by 2020, gas is headed for $5 per gallon, fuel economy requirements will rise about 40 percent and alt-fuel vehicles will account for more than half of new-vehicle sales.
I find these future predictions for gas prices to be somewhat ridiculous given the extreme volatility. What do they mean by $5/gallon in 2020? Is that what the average price for the year will be because I'm pretty sure by then we'll see annual price swings of at least $2/gallon, probably more. We already have yearly fluctuations of $1/gallon and that trend will almost surely intensify. I'll make my own prediction. In 2020 gas prices will range from $4/gallon to $6/gallon throughout the year. But if vehicles are getting 40% better mileage and factoring for inflation we will be spending close to the same percentage of our incomes on gas. So nothing too alarming here.
I do agree that alt-fuel vehicles will account for more than half the sales. They say 55% but I'd guess even higher than that. It does depend on what is considered an alt-fuel vehicle. Right now a plug-in hybrid isn't considered alt-fuel but it should be. If burning ethanol or biodiesel classifies as "alt" why not electricity.
Maybe 200BN would even be better. Government should aid corporate interests, nothing else...then we'll have utopia.
Where does government get the resources to provide any aid? I'm guessing it's from tax revenue. While we all know that Exxon/Mobil set record corporate profits last year does anyone know what they paid in corporate taxes? If I was to guess on this I'd say it also set a record. So it's really the taxpayers that provide the services that we attribute to government; the government just administers these services. From that perspective Exxon/Mobil may have been the single biggest provider last year. Could or should they do more? Maybe but its really difficult for me to consider Exxon/Mobil as a corporate welfare recipient. Like every large special interest they've got their lobbyists in DC trying to rig the game in their favor but that represents a flaw in the system, not a reflection on a particular industry.
Someone posted about how the government needs to do something about providing better health care. Again, the government is not a provider, simply a mechanism for administering. So what this person is really saying is that the taxpayers need to provide better health care. Or maybe he just meant the rich taxpayers. You know, tax the other guy.
"I see no evidence of that. It's a one way street, this supposed analysis."
Actually, it appears to be a dead-end street. With a big barricade across the end in the form of fintail standing there with his fingers in his ears yelling "la la la, I'm not LISTENING!"
Maybe you need a nice, simple to understand primer on the laws of supply and demand:
Uh yeah, you're not really in a position to lecture me about supply and demand, so you would be well advised to hold off on that for the rest of your life. Stick to something you know, when you find what that is, let us know. You're not being asked. If you can't come up with what is asked of you, just admit it and move on. Maybe tonight's shameful propaganda speech will calm you down.
There's no evidence that demand will outpace supply if gas in one suburb is the same price as in another, ceteris parabus. It's just more raking in of windfall profits. Taxes, formulation, and transport costs only explain away so much.
Still no exact justification of prices, still no way to explain the numbers other than to say "supply and demand", the catch all of the neocon economist.
Tax revenue, deficit spending in other areas, allocating money from anything else. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing an industry experiencing windfall profits...and industry held to a virtual absence of accountability.
It IS corporate welfare (American style socialism) no matter how much they do pay...it's money that would be better spent in almost any other direction. That cannot be argued.
"Or maybe he just meant the rich taxpayers"
Those who benefit the most from our backwards style of socialism need to pay the most.
Let's back off this personal edge we're starting to get here please.
Thanks for your participation and cooperation.
Gas hanging steady at $2.25 here inhappy Valley, although the one fullservice station that's usually a dime higher than self serve places has been holding at $2.44 instead of the $2.35 I expected to see after the last price drop.
Maybe we need to add a bit to our reporting here, sort of as a driver's aide, and report the cheapest places to fuel up in our areas if someone would happen to be passing through.
It's about 15 miles or so east of State College, but the Flying J at exit 173 on I-80 is consistently the lowest price nearby. Currently at $2.17
I haven't paid for a $0.20 difference in premium gas (93)for almost half year. Yesterday and today, Shell here at I95 south exit before the MD borderline sell 87 @ $2.18, 93 @$2.38.
More price decreases would be nice...but...our good trading partners in Canada(#1) and Mexico(#2) would get hurt.
Pshaw, yesterday I filled up @ $1.96 W. Ga. gas. Paid the attendant, and traveled a half a mile down the road...:surprise:...and another station was charging $1.91 !
It IS corporate welfare (American style socialism) no matter how much they do pay...it's money that would be better spent in almost any other direction. That cannot be argued.
"Or maybe he just meant the rich taxpayers"
Those who benefit the most from our backwards style of socialism need to pay the most.
I have long argued for higher fuel taxes but have reconciled myself to the unlikelihood of this every being adopted by our gutless politicians. That being the case I am all for raising the tax burden on the oil industry. Americans might not be intelligent enough to realize that this will have the same effect.
25% of all the income in this country is earned by people that make over $200k per year. Yet this group pays 50% of all the income taxes collected. People making $30k or less account for 13% of all income earned yet shoulder 0% of the tax burden. Apparently those benefitting the most from our system are indeed paying the most.
Hugo Chavez is ambitiously trying to create a more conventional form of Socialism (Marxism) down in Venezuala. It will be interesting to sit back and watch how that experiment pans out. It would even be more interesting to see how successful he was if Americans could actually figure out how to be energy self sufficient.
Oh yeah, gas in So. Maryland is at $2.13/gallon. When it gets that cheap I wonder why they just don't give it away?
"There's no evidence that demand will outpace supply if gas in one suburb is the same price as in another, ceteris parabus."
Nobody said there was. All I'm saying is that, as an individual station owner, I can charge WHATEVER I want for fuel. I could charge $0.50/gallon (and lose money for every gallon sold), or I could charge $50.00/gallon and not sell a drop. Obviously, as an individual station owner, I wouldn't make any money with either of those strategies. Therefore, as an individual station owner, I would need to determine what price I should charge in order to maximize my profits. That may mean selling it cheap and making money on volume of product sold, or selling it expensive and making money on the per unit price.
"It's just more raking in of windfall profits."
And who is 'raking in the windfall profits' when gas prices vary by over $0.40 just within your metro area? You appear to frequent one of the most expensive stations in the area, yet don't question the fact that YOUR station is substantially more expensive than other Chevron stations. No, instead the targets of your wrath are always "Big Oil" and the current federal administration.
BTW - would it make you happy if I bowed to your superior economic knowledge? Tell me then, in your opinion: why do retail fuel prices from the same refinery and the same wholesaler vary by over $0.40 just within your own, small, metro area? I've given you my opinion; you don't care for it. What's yours?
rorr, you can't charge $50.00 a gallon because that's price gouging pal. Big Oil should be the target. They are the only company in this nations history that supply's a critical energy source at record prices while getting government handouts called subsidies :confuse: If you see nothing wrong with that then you are among the 25-30% that support his pseudo-capitalist policy's. I guess if you own a good share of oil stock it would be natural to support these tactics. However the rest of us have to pay at the pump and it has lightened our wallets and has had a negative overall impact on our economy.
I could be wrong, but I believe it's only price gouging if you raise it dramatically it in response to a real or alleged crisis.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
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PS Phoenix gas is $2.19, down a whole TWO CENTS in the last 30 days !!
lars...looks like they have you over a similar barrel 200-odd miles up north in Phoenix for ghastly, around $2.24/gal for 87 no-lead?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
:surprise:
87 - $2.139 - down 4
89 - $2.239 - down 4
91 - $2.299 - down 4
93 - $2.339 - down 4
diesel - $2.299 - down 10
kcram - Pickups Host
$2.149 for 87
$2.239 for 89
$2.239 for 93
The local Speedway, Jewel and Sonic had the same. The Shell & BP @ work is running about $.05 higher for regular up to a dime more for the upper grades. The Speedway in Warrenville is running $2.219 for regular.
Prices have been falling for the past couple weeks :shades:
If you haven't noticed, this forum is mainly for people to advise others of the price for fuel in their area's and complain about the Oil Rich Trillionaires. :P
Firstly, just because I live in AZ does not mean I cannot read and/or have no life experience. I was in CA in the early 1980s and the same conspiracy talk was around in those days too. The fact is that if that (illegal gouging) was going on in 1983, then it would have been stopped by now.
Secondly, my response to the gouging issue was a RESPONSE to another post, not an item I proposed or initiated.
Now, IMHO, "gouging" is a gas station charging too much for a gallon. Oil Company Profiteering is when the oil companies overcharge the retail outlets and rake in huge profits. In CA, I don't think gouging is going on, but there might be a little bit of profiteering.
But since CA makes such a huge gas tax revenue on higher prices, the Governator and the Legislators might not be in a hurry to slow that profiteering down.
CA state Avg is $2.59
NY state Avg is $2.48
I guess dem new yorkers are gettin "gouged" too....
I put in 23 gallons. So that means I over paid $7.59 for the fuel I bought yesterday. If I was to do this everytime I filled up through one year I would over pay $11,385.00.
Please don't tell me that gouging is not going on in California. Unless you are profitting from it, then I can understand how someone might defend the Oil Companies and Fuel Stations. By the way, they used to be called Service Stations. That's because when a person got fuel they also received free service, oil checked and added to if needed, all the windows washed, tire pressure checked and added to if they needed air, etc. Now not only do not provide any service and rip us off at the pump standing behind closed doors luaghing at us, they can't even put a simple air hose at the pumps anymore. What a bunch of crap. What happened in America that we have changed so much. Why are the people here so lazy and don't care about anythng besides taking money out of each other pockets. It sick'n me to see how bad America has come in the past 25 years. At this rate in another 25 years we will not be any better off than the 3rd world countries. It is creeping up on us very slow, so we don't pay attention to what is going on. It's time for all of us, even me to just wave at the cars or people as we pass them. Time to set the clock back and enjoy life. It can happen and would if you only beleive. Have a Nice Day and an even better Tomorrow.
But just gas up your '49 Mercury with "ethyl" for 19 cents a gallon, go cruisin,' and forget about those woes so far away....
What ever, get over it. Life goes on. This doesn't change the FACT of this forum talking about the gas prices and how the American People no mater what are color, race or sex is are being gouged.
Why don't you just move to Virginia, where I live -- where taxes and gas prices are lower and the state government is well run? Our state doesn't win those "best-managed state government" awards for nothing, you know.
Hey, I ought to know, I'm a native of Pennsylvania, the state that seems to have invented corruption.
RE: gas prices -- the local Sheetz dropped theirs by 6 cents for all grades (except diesel) -- down to $2.03 for 87. Others have now copied, with Valero one cent less.
Still more than the $1.98 I paid last week 35 miles from my home.
Are you serious? I hadn't heard about those awards. We were stuck with convicted Taft in Ohio. We just got corruption without the awards. Grin.
Gas prices jumped Friday from $1.80 and less to $2.099 at 75% of stations. Today it's back down to
$1.81. There must have been a crude oil price of there's a great amount of gouging or overpricing going on whichever you want to call it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've been having service places keep my tires properly inflated for so long and now I live in this little cow town in SE Arizona and barely put 50 miles on the Sport in a week. So, I don't need lube-oil-filters very fast at all, the Sportsman doesn't run up miles very fast, etc.
Well, that also means that I don't follow my tires air pressure much because I am used to LOF's every month or month and a half and service dudes just check my air and top it off, etc. I need to do it myself now and indeed my LR tire needed several pounds of air pressure blown into it.
The point of my post is that it now costs 75 cents for air! Ya gotta be kiddin' me! Back when I got my own air more often when I was a youngster I always paid 25 cents. The good news is that the LR tire is holding that air I pumped in quite well and doesn't seem to have a leak. Wow...time and higher costs do seem to just keep marching on, don't they?
87 no-lead in Willcox, AZ, is sitting at $2.24/gal at the Circle K.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm lucky now in that we have a big air compressor at work -- so not only is the air free, but it's always bone dry.
I put in 23 gallons. So that means I over paid $7.59 for the fuel I bought yesterday. If I was to do this everytime I filled up through one year I would over pay $11,385.00."
HOW MUCH in one year?
At $0.33/gallon "gouging", and $11,385.00, that would mean you would be consuming 34500 gallons of fuel per year. Even if you only get 20mpg, that means you're driving nearly 700,000 miles in a year.....
I could give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're a trucker. But considering you're buying unleaded gas 23 gallons at a lick, I don't think that's the case. If you're managing an entire fleet of vehicles, it might behoove you to look around for the lowest price.
BTW - 'gouging' insinuates (in my mind at least) FORCING you to pay more for a product than the general market price. Did anyone FORCE you to buy gas at $2.79/gallon? As much harping as you seem to do related to the 'gouging' issue, it would seem as though you, AS THE CONSUMER, would look around for the lower prices and only purchase from those retailers.
Or is it the government's responsibility to hold your hand and make sure that you don't overpay?
I wonder if this atrocious regime will give another $20BN dose of reverse socialism before it is ousted.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html
Interesting.
A quick check of other Chevron stations in the greater Seattle area reveals one station at 2.45 for unleaded with another half dozen in the 2.55 to 2.60 range.
Conclusion: since all the Chevron stations in the Seattle area are getting their fuel from the SAME REFINERY (and, presumably paying the same wholesale cost), it appears the only 'gouging' that may be going on is at the local, neighborhood level.
I'm not real sure how the current 'atocious regime' is anymore beholden to your local Bellevue Chevron station than at other Seattle-area Chevron stations charging 0.20 to 0.30 less per gallon......
The free market factors at work are: local hoity-toity Chevron dealer charges $2.75/gallon for unleaded......and people actually buy it. Maybe, just maybe, if people didn't PAY that amount, he wouldn't CHARGE that amount.
I think the local Shell on my way in to work is down to about $2.259 per gallon.
Maybe if we subsidize the industry some more, things will change.
What I'm saying is that all the Seattle-area Chevrons get their fuel from the same refinery and the same distributor; yet prices are wildly different.
Why?
Is it the fault of the 'Big Oil' company or the distributor? Or maybe the wildly divergent local prices are due to the business decisions of the (surprise!) local owners? You ALWAYS seem to want to point the finger at either 'Big Oil' or the current 'atrocious regime' in the WH (assuming there's actually a distinction between the two in your mind). Yet, it appears as though where the 'gouging' occurs is at the local level.
Yes, the local neighborhood station is more convenient to you. Apparently it is more convenient to enough other folks that your local station owner can get away with charging more money.
However, if his prices are TOO high, then folks might start balancing the 'convenience' of going to the local station vs. the higher prices. This is an examply of "supply vs. demand" on the local level. Apparently, that station owner still has enough "demand" for his product at his price that he can still charge more. These are market forces.
"Maybe if we subsidize the industry some more, things will change."
Yep. Probably would. Of course, if we subsidized LESS (or not at all), things would also change. Your point?
Dumas, prices are about $2.06 from the few stations I see on the way home here in Dumas.
Detroit, supposably was the cheapest in the nation the other day @ $1.89
Rocky
I am not saying who is at fault, I am simply saying the pricing schemes don't add up. This is no free market in action. Oil prices fall, gas prices don't. We get these stories about how we are charged for future gas (instant price rise when oil spikes), but then we get to pay for present gas (delayed or no price decline when oil falls). I noticed an ARCO near me (gas I have been told to steer clear of) charging 2.95 for premium. Why would a higher end brand be a mere 2 cents more than the low end? Why do the gradients change? Sometimes 10 cents, sometimes 20, sometimes 12? None of it can be justified. None of it makes sense. All I get is a pie in the sky justification.
With windfall profits, why is American style socialism to aid oil companies needed at all? Neocon economic policy...gotta love it. Really gets some Tejas pants in a bind when the worst regime in American history is taken to task. Maybe we can "escalate" that UNJUSTIFIABLE corporate welfare, too. 20BN? Petty cash. They need 100BN!
how long ago did you notice all these things you are complaining about in the oil industry? You seem to imply that all these things just now started happening since the year 2000 or so.....And that's just not the case.
The oil companies have had the government (and us) by the juevos for many decades. There is just too much oil and gas money to be had for the government to try and crack down on the situation. The tax revenue and the kickbacks and the lobbyist money is just too powerful, and there is not much to be done about it.
Sure, a "new Congress" can do what it wants and pass all it wants, but the bottom lines will just MOVE AROUND to different people. Nothing the congress can do will bring back 99 cent gas.
It's all a give and take politically-driven scenario.
PS Phoenix prices are $2.13 - $2.19 for the cheapest.
I just want justification for pricing trends.
I don't expect accountability to be given to monied interests...it never has been in the past
It's simply really.
Your local station owner has a SUPPLY of fuel at $x.xx/gallon. He finds that he still has adequate DEMAND for fuel even when he charges $2.75/gallon.
He makes an assessment of how much the DEMAND would go UP if he LOWERED his price (would it be enough to offset the lower per unit price?). He also makes an assessment of how much DEMAND would go DOWN if he RAISED his price (would it be enough to offset the lost business?).
Oh wait....I forgot. You want a justification that DOESN'T involve that pesky old supply/demand concept. Silly me.
No wonder you remain disappointed.
I see no evidence of that. It's a one way street, this supposed analysis.
You're talking theory and speculation, no numbers, no meat, no justification. Simple indeed, there's nothing there.
And regional differences have yet to be accounted for.
Yes, a lack of substance disappoints me, and I am used to disappointment these days. In that regard, this has been a disappointing century.
Maybe 200BN would even be better. Government should aid corporate interests, nothing else...then we'll have utopia.
What could that mean? Oh no! If WalMart revenues are down then WalMart is gonna have to raise their prices of Cesar dog food 25 cents. If WalMart raises their Cesar dog food prices 25 cents, then the couple in Willcox, AZ, whose Pomeranians love Cesar and need Cesar dog food, will have to forego shopping at WalMart and instead shop at Dollar General. Because Dollar General only charges 75 cents for Cesar and WalMart, who used to charge 71 cents for Cesar has just raised their prices for Cesar to 79 cents.
Meanwhile, WalMart stock drops $3.00/share due to earnings shortfalls. Not just Cesar has gone up, also oranges are frozen in California! Yeeee-hhhaaaaawwwww-rrriiigggghhhttty-oooo! Raise those prices. On and on and on we go. The enormous pressure to slatify investor-dips translates to an overly nervous worrisome cataclysm of nail-biting euphoria that, unfortunately seriously affects the standard consumer out there. Some 300 million Americans and growing daily.
My point of this is that stock traders and the stock exchange and how greed money affects layoffs and hiring and price reductions and price hikes is also a majorly screwed-up manner of doing day-to-day business.
I mean, if a speech in Philadelphia can cause panic and by standard procedure of panic and shrill prices are then negatively affected immediately is dopey and short-sighted and just plain dumb. It's broken and the oil industry leads the greed pack.
Oh, let's not leave out the health care industry. Don't worry if they don't have health insurance, as long as we have health insurance. Yikes. Better dicker on that with a few hundred dorks standing around yelling out bids at the top of their lungs! I mean, does anyone else see something really, really stupid here besides me? Who makes up this way of doing business?
Do we get a vote on that method if y'all can agree on who's to blame for making this stupid business system up in the first place?
Back to health care. Have the Fed's ever come to any conclusion on why its OK for drug companies to play numbers roulette for years trying to invent a numbers formula tha will click and make a new cancer-fighting drug...and then, if they do, all of us pay for it by charging about 25 times more than the drug's worth?
No, change it back to oil care. The oil care industry is just as blessed with outright greed. Let's stick to ghastly here. Would you let me know when you can splane this in a manner that makes good business sense? And common-sense sense?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119292
Rocky
I do agree that alt-fuel vehicles will account for more than half the sales. They say 55% but I'd guess even higher than that. It does depend on what is considered an alt-fuel vehicle. Right now a plug-in hybrid isn't considered alt-fuel but it should be. If burning ethanol or biodiesel classifies as "alt" why not electricity.
Where does government get the resources to provide any aid? I'm guessing it's from tax revenue. While we all know that Exxon/Mobil set record corporate profits last year does anyone know what they paid in corporate taxes? If I was to guess on this I'd say it also set a record. So it's really the taxpayers that provide the services that we attribute to government; the government just administers these services. From that perspective Exxon/Mobil may have been the single biggest provider last year. Could or should they do more? Maybe but its really difficult for me to consider Exxon/Mobil as a corporate welfare recipient. Like every large special interest they've got their lobbyists in DC trying to rig the game in their favor but that represents a flaw in the system, not a reflection on a particular industry.
Someone posted about how the government needs to do something about providing better health care. Again, the government is not a provider, simply a mechanism for administering. So what this person is really saying is that the taxpayers need to provide better health care. Or maybe he just meant the rich taxpayers. You know, tax the other guy.
"Don't tax you, don't tax me; tax that fellow behind the tree!" (attributed to a former US Senator IIRC).
Back to gas prices, we're holding at $2.03 for 87 in many places, with Valero one cent less (central VA).
BTW, I don't know how anyone can predict gas prices for 2020, when we don't know what'll happen in the next 6 months!
Actually, it appears to be a dead-end street. With a big barricade across the end in the form of fintail standing there with his fingers in his ears yelling "la la la, I'm not LISTENING!"
Maybe you need a nice, simple to understand primer on the laws of supply and demand:
http://www.socialstudiesforkids.com/articles/economics/supplyanddemand1.htm
Once you wade through that mind-altering concept, we can work on how supply and demand affect prices, and how prices affect supply and demand.
BTW - how did you ever find your way to the Mountaintop?
There's no evidence that demand will outpace supply if gas in one suburb is the same price as in another, ceteris parabus. It's just more raking in of windfall profits. Taxes, formulation, and transport costs only explain away so much.
Still no exact justification of prices, still no way to explain the numbers other than to say "supply and demand", the catch all of the neocon economist.
It IS corporate welfare (American style socialism) no matter how much they do pay...it's money that would be better spent in almost any other direction. That cannot be argued.
"Or maybe he just meant the rich taxpayers"
Those who benefit the most from our backwards style of socialism need to pay the most.
The future isn't bright.
Thanks for your participation and cooperation.
Gas hanging steady at $2.25 here inhappy Valley, although the one fullservice station that's usually a dime higher than self serve places has been holding at $2.44 instead of the $2.35 I expected to see after the last price drop.
Maybe we need to add a bit to our reporting here, sort of as a driver's aide, and report the cheapest places to fuel up in our areas if someone would happen to be passing through.
It's about 15 miles or so east of State College, but the Flying J at exit 173 on I-80 is consistently the lowest price nearby. Currently at $2.17
It's like being in a time warp back before Katrina.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
More price decreases would be nice...but...our good trading partners in Canada(#1) and Mexico(#2) would get hurt.
Pshaw, yesterday I filled up @ $1.96 W. Ga. gas. Paid the attendant, and traveled a half a mile down the road...:surprise:...and another station was charging $1.91 !
I could have saved me 75 cent
"Or maybe he just meant the rich taxpayers"
Those who benefit the most from our backwards style of socialism need to pay the most.
I have long argued for higher fuel taxes but have reconciled myself to the unlikelihood of this every being adopted by our gutless politicians. That being the case I am all for raising the tax burden on the oil industry. Americans might not be intelligent enough to realize that this will have the same effect.
25% of all the income in this country is earned by people that make over $200k per year. Yet this group pays 50% of all the income taxes collected. People making $30k or less account for 13% of all income earned yet shoulder 0% of the tax burden. Apparently those benefitting the most from our system are indeed paying the most.
Hugo Chavez is ambitiously trying to create a more conventional form of Socialism (Marxism) down in Venezuala. It will be interesting to sit back and watch how that experiment pans out. It would even be more interesting to see how successful he was if Americans could actually figure out how to be energy self sufficient.
Oh yeah, gas in So. Maryland is at $2.13/gallon. When it gets that cheap I wonder why they just don't give it away?
Nobody said there was. All I'm saying is that, as an individual station owner, I can charge WHATEVER I want for fuel. I could charge $0.50/gallon (and lose money for every gallon sold), or I could charge $50.00/gallon and not sell a drop. Obviously, as an individual station owner, I wouldn't make any money with either of those strategies. Therefore, as an individual station owner, I would need to determine what price I should charge in order to maximize my profits. That may mean selling it cheap and making money on volume of product sold, or selling it expensive and making money on the per unit price.
"It's just more raking in of windfall profits."
And who is 'raking in the windfall profits' when gas prices vary by over $0.40 just within your metro area? You appear to frequent one of the most expensive stations in the area, yet don't question the fact that YOUR station is substantially more expensive than other Chevron stations. No, instead the targets of your wrath are always "Big Oil" and the current federal administration.
BTW - would it make you happy if I bowed to your superior economic knowledge? Tell me then, in your opinion: why do retail fuel prices from the same refinery and the same wholesaler vary by over $0.40 just within your own, small, metro area? I've given you my opinion; you don't care for it. What's yours?
A. Vendor wants to make a fast nickel.
B. Vendor wants to make a slow dime.
Rocky
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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