Mazda3

boggse · June 2003

"if the Mazda3 doesn't come out before January they will have skipped the 04 model year in that segment."

Mazda has done this before. There was no 1998 Miata in the US.

boggse · June 2003

"You know why? I've read somewhere that the current U.S. Focus uses Mazda's auto tranny."

That certainly makes more sense to me, but large, multinational corporations rarely do things that make sense to me, so I tend to be skeptical.

creakid1 · June 2003

"Everything I am reading indicates FORD is using Mazda's platforms for small and intermediate sized cars in the future. 10 Ford/Lincoln/Mercury models off the Mazda6..."

I just read the most recent Brit's Auto Express Weekly special issue that the next Euro mid-size Ford - Mondeo(which the current Jag X-type is based) - will not share w/ the Mazda6 plaform the American "Futura family" will. Only the front-end exterior will look similar to the Futura. The next Mondeo platform will also share w/ future Volvo vehicles - obviously not the "Mazda3/Focus II triplet" 40/50 Series, & must be the 60 & up Series.

However, this Volvo-designed platform used in the current Volvo vehicles - 60/70/80 Series - are gonna be adopted by the bigger American Ford cars like the new Ford Five-hundred.

"...and that the next Focus will be based on the Mazda3 platform, as will some Volvo models. I have seen nothing to indicate Ford designed the platform."

It's too obvious that this new C-platform is a Focus platform. The suspension & steering are pretty much identical & mandatory parts for the Mazda3 & Volvo 40/50 Series. Despite Mazda's sporty image, (Euro)Ford had to teach Mazda engineers about "dynamic know how" for this project.

"Overall leads were:
Volvo - structural & safety
Ford - chassis engineering (e.g. control-blade suspension)
Mazda - gasoline engine, exhaust, cooling systems"

Volvo also did some front-end packaging for crashworthiness.

"The shared platform could be great if it gives the Mazda3 Volvo-levels of safety. On the other hand, it could be the worst of all three worlds--Volvo excitement, Focus reliability, and Mazda brand recognition! Still, I think it's a good thing overall. The 3 will be Japan-built and probably very reliable."

Obviously, they wouldn't be stupid enough not to combine the best of each. However, the mandatory identical 60% part sharing can mean difficulty adapting them to each manufacturer's traditional building process. Since suspension & steering don't usually break, I wouldn't worry about them being Ford units. Still, the Mazda3 should be the least unreliable of the triplets & more reliable than any other car w/ Euro steering/suspension.

mazfan1 · June 2003

Can you send me the URL to my email: Birdcallap06@netscape.net

Thank You

glideslopes · June 2003

The same situation applies to the P2 chassis on the 6. It will be shared with the Volvo V60 and the Ford Futura. I find it hard to believe that Ford had design lead on the MZ6 chassis however. Perhaps Ford had Engine/Cooling on the P2 chassis?

Mark.

wongpres · June 2003

The Mazda6 chassis was 100% Mazda developed. Ford had no involvement with it's development (except for maybe giving Mazda some $$$, just like with the 2.3l engine).

Ford then decided to use the Mazda6 platform on some of it's future cars like the Futura to save development resources & costs because the Mazda6 platform is pretty darn good.

creakid1 · June 2003

"The same situation applies to the P2 chassis on the 6. It will be shared with the Volvo V60 and the Ford Futura."

I don't think any of the Volvos will be Mazda6 based, as that most recent news I just mentioned pointed out that the Euro-designed future Mondeo platform is the one Volvo(most likely the 60/70 Series) will share.

pzev · June 2003

Just looking for some opinions. In my opinion, the current Protege's MSRP is a tad bit on the expensive side. Was wondering what some of you thought about how the Mazda3's MSRP would compare to the Protege's. Will that 60% in common between the Focus, S40, and Mazda3 be enough to keep it in line with the current MSRP or possibly be lower? Also considering that it will be built in Japan like the current one, do you think the weakening US dollar will have an impact on its price? A weak US dollar and being built in Japan would cause the price to be higher right?

pzev · June 2003

I agree with what you say, but as far as the 4-wheel discs go, since they will all be produced in Japan in the same factory I was hoping that if Japan and other countries were getting 4-wheel discs across the board on their Mazda3's that it would lead me to believe there's a good chance that they would simply put 4-wheel discs on our's as well. And of course if some of them have drums then there's a good chance we would as well. Obviously other countries getting 4-wheel discs doesn't guarantee 4-wheel discs here but it gives me better hope.

By the way, didn't Mazda say we would be getting leather and HID's available on the Mazda3? Did they say anything about the side curtain airbags or that black glossy-looking trim that was on the Sportif as well?

newcar31 · June 2003

"By the way, didn't Mazda say we would be getting leather and HID's available on the Mazda3?"

I haven't read anything about that, but I do know that you can already get leather and HID's on the Focus.

wongpres · June 2003

IMHO, the Mazda3 will continue to be on the 'expensive' side compared to it's competitors, but it'll be because there won't be a 'stripper' version (for USA, Mazda3 is coming in i and s, just like the Mazda6). But when you compare the others with the same options, the prices will be about the same.

For Canada, I hear that the Mazda2 is coming in September. If true, the Mazda2 will be Mazda's value car in Canada and the Mazda3 can go a bit more upscale and be a bit more expensive (but also have more content).

The Mazda USA guys at the NY autoshow said that the Mazda3 will have leather and HID as options - but you never know if they're accurate.

creakid1 · June 2003

Good pt., newcar31, parts sharing. But didn't they discontinue that HID along w/ rest of the Mark stereo edition after just 1 yr? Too costly for an U.S.-market Focus I guess.

"Did they say anything about the side curtain airbags..."

If Volvo is in charge of the safety, I can safely think so.

"...or that black glossy-looking trim that was on the Sportif as well?"

Mazda promised so, as the RX-8 already started this new trend while only the 6 is left behind w/..."

pzev · June 2003

Went back and tried to find where I read about the leather and HID's and found it. Not sure if I'm allowed to post the source on here but just go to some main car sites and read their info on the Sportif from the New York show and some of them should mention Mazda saying that leather and HID's will be available options. The only other option I remember reading somewhere was about an available sport package which would have 17-inch wheels. So I guess the i trim will have 15-inch and the s trim will have 16-inch. Of course those options aren't confirmed but the Mazda reps must have been spreading it around for the car sites to be reporting it. And as the poster mentioned about Volvo, and also since the Sportif was equipped with side curtains then I guess we can safely say side curtains will make it as well.

So Mazda said the black glossy trim would make it? That's good, I like it much better than the silver trim in the Mazda6 and the silver trim in the current Protege ES. Now if I can only get ABS and side curtains without a sunroof I'll be set. I refuse to take a sunroof because I want the extra headroom and don't want to pay $700-$800 for something I don't want. I wonder how many options I could get before being forced to take a sunroof. If I can't get ABS or side air bags without taking a sunroof I may be looking elsewhere. I'd probably take leather too but that's not necessary. And I don't want a navigation system so not even concerned about that.

pzev · June 2003

Yeah, since leather and HID's and 17-inch wheels and stuff will probably be offered then they seem to be taking the Mazda3 upscale a little bit, and the prices will probably reflect that. But putting on leather, the sport package, HID's, ABS, side curtains, sunroof, etc. I would guess you would be pushing $20k MSRP. And as much as Honda charges for the EX Civic and how much the current Protege costs I can only imagine a Mazda3 being built in Japan with this stuff will cost. But I hope you're right that it will be about the same price compared to the competition, and hopefully they won't have to do too much cost-cutting to keep it competitively priced.

mazfan1 · June 2003

Thanks Preston for the email.

creakid1 · June 2003

"...built in Japan with this stuff will cost. But I hope you're right that it will be about the same price compared to the COMPETITION, and hopefully they won't have to do too much cost-cutting to keep it competitively priced."

Who's the competition? Can't you see Volvo's already aiming their "Focus" at the new 3-series. I don't see any reason this roomy FWD Mazda3 will not be able to focus on a 4-cyl 3-series as the Mz3 most likely got even sportier handling than its Volvo twin & might even play w/ an M3. The Mz3 is gonna keep the 1-series company that's for sure, as all the other compacts got no steering feedback & decent ride except maybe the Impreza/WRX. But also watch out for a baby RWD Cayenne-like Porsche in the near future.

mazfan1 · June 2003

I was reading a autoshow article of the Mazda3 with Mazda saying, the price for the 3 will be in the ballpark from 15k to 20k. Mazda did say yeah the leather seats and HID's will be offered and the stylist upscale interior of the sportif. The 3 might get standard 16 inch steel wheels (optional 16 alloys) on "i" and standard 16 alloys on the "s" and of course 17s on the sport package.Does anybody know will the 3 get (3) rear adjustable headrests?(not the flat ones in the 6, i'm sure the hatchback and wagon will have real headrests) and will the Nav and DSC system be offered for NA?

Thanks in advance!

creakid1 · June 2003

What I worried about is the availability of stability & if its programmed "liberally" like the Euro Focus's ESP.

Other than that, it's the quietness when cruising. The lack of 6th gear means I might want to re gear the 5th taller, as changing the final drive ratio might involve whole lot more labor cost.

Stereo wise, I might have to go thru some aftermarket mods. Recently I sampled the VW Jetta Monsoon, & it disappoints! Even w/ separate mid-range adj in addition to bass & treble.

Charcoals, anyone? Why only the Europeans bother to worry about inventing automobile air purifiers & smog-detecting recirculation? This time, this Mazda is a semi-Euro-designed car w/ parts sharing...

Last, I just hope the fastback-shape sedan will still leave a wide rear view for the driver to change lane easily.

pzev · June 2003

Ok I think you're right. I do remember reading something about the price being between 15k-20k. That still can be a bit expensive but sounds reasonable. As far as the rear headrests go, I don't remember reading anything about that. It's nice to have them as long as it doesn't hurt rear visibility too much. I've sat in a Jetta before but didn't pay attention to rear visibility, but those 3 headrests look like it could hurt rear visibility. And you may be right about the i trim getting 16-inch steel wheels.

Don't remember anything about DSC or the navigation system either, but I would guess the navigation system won't make it unless the Mazda6 at least gets it first, and even then I somehow doubt it, but who knows. Same thing with DSC, although in my opinion that's more likely than a navigation system, but I certainly could be wrong. Interesting that the HID's are all but final and yet the Mazda6 has no option for HID's right? Either the Mazda6 will have an option for them soon or the Mazda3 could be getting stuff the Mazda6 doesn't have such as DSC and a navigation system. I wouldn't think Mazda would want to do that though, they would rather give the stuff to the Mazda6 first.

pzev · June 2003

"But also watch out for a baby RWD Cayenne-like Porsche in the near future."

Ok I lost you on that last sentence, could you elaborate please? Well I'm assuming that at least the i trim will try to compete with Corollas, Civics etc. to a certain extent even though the Mazda3 will be more sporty. Just as the Mazda6 to a certain extent competes with Accords and Camrys, but I see what you're getting at. The problem is I just don't see people buying an economy car that pushes 20k, which is another reason why I don't see the navigation system coming over anytime soon. To get that I'm sure they would force most every other option there is and you would be over 20k MSRP, not sure if there's enough people willing to pay that much for an economy car, even if they want a navigation system that bad. A Matrix with navigation and sunroof and other options tops out at around 22K MSRP. I guess though if enough people are buying these Matrix's equipped with a navigation system then maybe it would be justified to give it to the Mazda3 as well. Plus Mazda is struggling as it is with their brand recognition, they have to be competitive to other economy cars on price to a certain degree.

And good points in your other post. I thought of the stereo as well, but I'm assuming they'll only offer one choice that will be in all the Mazda3's. I've read the stereo (non Bose) in the Mazda6 is at least decent so as long as it has 6 speakers and is decent then I can live with it, although I would be willing to pay more for an upgraded one if it's worth it.

audia8q · June 2003

ok...got some info

Job#1 on the Mazda3 is October 2003. If there is no delays, they should show up 8-12 weeks later...

PZEY....your forgetting something with your MSRP concerns. the current protege has $2500 in dealer cash/rebate incentives built into that MSRP. When you take that into consideration the price is very reasonable.

newcar31 · June 2003

"To get that I'm sure they would force most every other option there is and you would be over 20k MSRP, not sure if there's enough people willing to pay that much for an economy car, even if they want a navigation system that bad"

People gladly pay over $20K for an upscale economy car already. It's called a Jetta.

dudleyr · June 2003

Also the BMW 1 series will be 20k or a little more.

creakid1 · June 2003

"People gladly pay over $20K for an upscale economy car already. It's called a Jetta."

Good point! I hate bulky exterior & large turning circle. I don't even get to drive on the carpool lane. Why should I drag all that length behind me? All I want is comfort of a premium car. I want a "$25k Jetta" w/ Japanese reliability, so Mazda3...

"'But also watch out for a baby RWD Cayenne-like Porsche in the near future.'

Ok I lost you on that last sentence, could you elaborate please?"

Come on, the Canadian-market 320i w/ cloth interior is already a 6-cyl. How about the 318ti "economy car" replacement - the 2005 1-series? It's based on the next 3-series platform albeit 6" narrower. That compact Porsche project is front-engine/RWD for competing w/ the Golf-class BMW & other RWD compacts, so...

maltb · June 2003

I've been told that Job 1 is Sept 16 and the boats will hit our shores in Nov. I guess that still puts them in dealers with the time frame you mentioned.

audia8q · June 2003

the email I got today was rather vague and wasnt specific about exact dates, thanks for the info.

Hopefully this launch will not have the delays the mazdaspeed had.

The boat with the first wave of RX-8 retail orders left japan a few days ago. I can hardly wait!!

wongpres · June 2003

Pat says it's ok to post the links, so here are a couple of excellent articles about the new Mazda3/FocusII/S40 platform:

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07981115

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- -code=carnews&content_code=01221354

Thanks maltb & audia8q for all the insider info. and please continue to giving us anything new you hear. I am buying the Mazda3 sedan, and in my case the timing is very important, hence I keep asking about the dates as well as packaging.

newcar31 · June 2003

I don't know if this link has been posted before, but it's a write up about the Mazda3 from England. They call it: "Mazda's stunning Golf trasher".

If you can stand the constant barrage of Lotto London pop ups, check it out. Scroll down to the bottom and check out the gallery, they have quite a few pics. It's under MX sportif.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24v2/ContentDisplay/w24ThirdLevel- /0,5684,1369_1321831,00.html?NewsPath=1

maltb · June 2003

I don't think that is correct. Don't confuse the development of the 6 chassis with the 3.

bigdaddycoats · June 2003

So the 2.3 is the same as in the 6 and the Focus. But, in the 6 it is rated with 160hp and in the Focus it has 148hp - in the 3 it will have 160hp? Is this just a rumor or has it been seen somewhere?
maltb and audia8q - will we in the U.S. get the sedan first? Hope they are here by the end of the year.

groovypippin · June 2003

The new 2.3 Litre in the Focus is the same MZR 2.3L in the Mazda6 (There very well could be minor tweaks to it - I'm not sure). The reason for the horsepower difference is because of stricter emmission controls on the Focus.

The sedan and 5-door should arrive at the same time.

boggse · June 2003

I have read that the goal on the 2.3L for the 3 is 150HP. BTW: it is expected that a version of this engine will end up in the Miata where the goal is 170HP.

pzev · June 2003

newcar31- Ok you're right, must have completely slipped my mind when I typed that. I'm sure though any Mazda3 pushing 20k will be fully-loaded, which I'm glad because I can't afford to go that high.

creakid1- Mazda definetly needs a RWD coupe of some sort. Either a true RX-7 or a Miata coupe or maybe a brand new coupe that would compete against the Mustang, though Ford probably wouldn't like that.

pzev · June 2003

I guess that makes sense, then the 2.0 will have 130-135hp which is certainly reasonable. If they do lower the hp from 160 then hopefully the engines will make at least SULEV in all 50 states since they are advertising the PZEV potential so much. Also I think the Nissan Sentra 126hp version has SULEV in all 50 states already.

hokiedog · June 2003

The production date is wonderful news. Hopefully everything goes as planned.

Question: Is the Sportif version that we have seen multiple pictures of going to be essentially the same as the 5-door that is rumored to be released with the Sedan?

Edit: Nevermind, found the answer while looking for interior pics. "While many concept cars lose much of their character because of cost restraints or production difficulties, Suzuki said the front and rear fascias, pronounced shoulders, projector-beam headlamps and upscale interior will make the final Mazda3. " That will do until we hear official word from Mazda.

creakid1 · June 2003

"creakid1- Mazda definetly needs a RWD coupe of some sort. Either a true RX-7 or a Miata coupe or maybe a brand new coupe that would compete against the Mustang, though Ford probably wouldn't like that."

Mazda's already doing that - RX-8 modern coupe w/ Saturn-like doors - & already pitted against the Mustang in the April C&D. Unless the $28k price is due to the rotary, getting an inexpensive RWD 4-seat Mazda might never happen. But there's always the 4WD "Focus" from Mazda/Volvo/Ford. Even by adding an electric motor in the back does the trick!

The next Miata follow by the "2-seat RX-8" - the RX-7 - are suppose to share the 4W ind platform w/ the current RX-8.

By the way, was the original RX-3 RWD coupe inexpensive like an economy car when new? It didn't have ind rear like the original Datsun 510 did it?

newcar31 · June 2003

Don't know how much the RX3 was, but it was a cool car.

I know Mazda will never do it, but if they re-introduced the RX3, I'd have to buy one. Can you imagine a little sedan the size of the Protege and Mazda3 with RWD and a Rotary. It'd be awfully unique and awfully cool.

glideslopes · June 2003

  I respectfully disagree.

  P1 Chassis=Focus/Mazda3/Volvo S40/S50

  P2 Chassis=Mazda6/Volvo S60/V70/Ford Futura.

  Joint Mazda/Ford/Volvo designs.

  Mark. : )

creakid1 · June 2003

I don't think the mid-size Volvo 60/70 or even 80/90 series will end up w/ a Japanese Mazda6 platform. Per a recent news from Auto Express Weekly special issue - the next Mondeo's platform is not the one on the Futura/Mazda6 & will be shared w/ Volvo.

There's also a confusion whether it's the Mazda6 platform or the present Volvo 60/70/80 platform that will be used in the American full-size Ford Five-hundred.

I think the European side of Ford doesn't seem to give a damn about the Japanese platforms. We converted our Euro-based Escort into a Mazda-engineered Protege-twin (Ford-Lazer clone) since '91. This time the Taurus/Sable are turning into a Mazda6. The Europeans refused to follow the American/Japanese & continued w/ its Focus/Mondeo chassis engineering, although their 4-cyl powerplants are being taken over by Mazda's.

glideslopes · June 2003

Are you saying the current V60 and MZ6 are not versions of the P2? The Volvo 80 series was never part of the P2 platform. The P2 platform is a current production platform, not future development?

When I look under my 6s and a V60 they look very similar. There is a fold out in the new C&D of the S60 R. Take away the rear differential and drive shaft and the chassis looks almost identical to the cut-away I have of the MZ6?

Mark.

creakid1 · June 2003

Yes, the 4-dr S60/V70 are based on the S80. The old 850 is still alive as the C70 coupe/convertible.

There is no known Japanese platform underneath any Volvo except the present S40/V40's Mitsubishi Carisma platform, which is so bad even Ford couldn't stand it & had to ax it after purchasing Volvo.

pzev · June 2003

I have another question I've been meaning to ask. I've read bits and pieces of info about the new Mazda 4-cyl but I haven't read anything about it that stands out. How does it stack up against other 4-cyls, such as the Accord's 4-cyl, GM's Ecotec, etc? I've heard good things about the Accord's but nothing really special about Mazda's. Anybody with any experience with it like to share their opinion about it? Or any magazine reviews that praised it?

creakid1 · June 2003

In the Mazda6/TSX "feud" thread. It has been beaten to death between the Mazda's 2.3 & Honda's 4-cyl. Both the Accord 2.4 & the premium-gas TSX 2.4 4-cyl engines "won" at every rpm in both output & smoothness. In Europe, Honda's also beats everyone else in low CO2 emission, while the low-fuel-economy RX-8 1.3 rotary spits out high level like a Mercedes 500. So when I whipped out the light-weight but still roomy upcoming Mazda3 w/ the 2.3 to "cheat". They(the Honda fans) "disqualified" it because the 3 is an "economy compact". The TSX is also just a compact version of the "economy Accord", since the true premium options like "charcoal/auto recirculate", "driver-seat memory" & "passenger-seat height adjustment" are all unavailable from its part bin. So a leather HID Mazda3 is actually comparable to the compact TSX/Euro Accord. At least it's too expensive compare to a Civic. The experts know better - Volvo already knew that a Focus-II derivative is good enough to pit against the 3-series. I just can't wait to see a reliable Mz3 to substitute the original 4-cyl M3, the FWD way.

carguy58 · June 2003

I wonder if its going to affect Mazda 6 sales but on the other hand Ford and Mazda have different audiences anyway. Ford is more bread and butter and Mazda lives on "its" fun image.

riopelle · June 2003

Hi all,

I asked this on the hatchback thread too:

Is the 3 door mazda3 a go, or is it still a rumor? I am desperately hoping a GTX succesor comes out (4wd and a turbo)

Thanks.

creakid1 · June 2003

"Tarus turning into 6...I wonder if its going to affect Mazda 6 sales"

No really. Right before I bought the '90 Protege LX, I almost wanted to wait for the more-crispy-styled North-American-built '91 Mercury Tracer LTS twin. But I figured this thought must be some kind of STUPIDITY. & I was right - I test drove a 1-yr old eventually, & the whole car was rattling & loose!

Besides, the Futura is American styled & probably looks very "Detroit-ish".

fowler3 · June 2003

Futura on the cardesignnews.com web site under New York Auto Show. It looks nothing like the Sportif, MZ3, or MZ6. But the styling may change since it isn't a clay mockup.

fowler3

pzev · June 2003

Thanks for the response. I went there and did a search and picked up a little more info on the engine. I'll do the same in the Mazda6 thread when I get a chance. I did notice a post that said something about there being very little torque under 1800rpm. That sort of worries me since I'll be buying an automatic. I test drove a Mazda6 4-cyl auto and a Protege ES auto on different days and the Mazda6 felt a lot more sluggish, whereas the Protege felt faster. I think they're both about as fast as the other but the Protege "felt" faster and was more fun to drive in my opinion. To be fair though I didn't push either very hard since I knew I wasn't going to buy anytime soon. I just hope the Mazda3 feels about the same as the Protege and handles as well. The only flaw I could see with the car was that it was a tad stiff and maybe in the long run it could bother some people, not sure if it would bother me or not, but it would be a good trade off considering how well it handled and felt. I wonder how fast the Mazda3 will be.

By the way, did anyone see the Sportif in person at the NY show? I'm interested in the sedan but was wondering if anyone was able to sit in it or look through the window and see how the interior looked. Did it seem like good quality?

creakid1 · June 2003

Compare to the mid & high rpm range, the Mazda Ford-derived 3.0 6-cyl feels even-more-obviously weaker low end as oppose to its pure-Japanese-designed 2.3 4-cyl. Since I recommended someone in that "feud" thread to get the Mazda3 BECAUSE the Acura TSX needs to rev, a whole lot of people disagreed w/ me. As it turned out eventually when the TSX was available for test drive, the TSX is so heavy that its superb racy 4-cyl engine only feels powerful at high rpm & is weak in BOTH the mid & low range! So I was right - the light-weight Mazda3 2.3 will be more powerful than the TSX most of time, especially at mid rpm range.

As far as 2.3 w/ automatic goes, I'm a little worried about the Mazda3's fewer gears & more slipperage might hurt the acceleration. But for sure better than the current Protege 2.0. After all, it is a much lighter car than the Mazda6i & especially the TSX.

You're right about the Protege being more fun to drive than the newer-designed more-expensive Mazda6. I drove both(6i & 6s vs Protege5 & Mazdaspeed turbo) side by side...the 6 has some sort of elasticity in the steering, & hence, feels less direct.

Ride comfort wise, this is the big thing - the Focus II's suspension/steering is famous for world-class handling w/ much better ride than the Japanese-designed Mazda6 & Protege!

glideslopes · June 2003

Having spent 3 years and 45,000 miles in my 00 Protege' ES 5-Speed, and having driven the 6i and 6s, along with owning a 6s, I must disagree.

I will go along with the opinion that the 2.3/auto combination in the 6i is lacking low end. However, the 6s/auto has plenty of low end for the car.

The manual versions of the 6 are much more fun to drive than my Protege'. While the 6 can be described as Protege' like handling, it really is on another level. Much quieter, smoother, and more refined. An hour at 75-80 in my Protege' and I was ready for new kidneys.

The 3 will surely be an improvement, and the current Protege' is a wonderful car. But to say an 03 Protege' ES Auto is more fun to drive than a 6 is a stretch IMO.

Mark.

Mazda3

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