Mazda3

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Comments

  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    I think the world has gone nuts. Now people are worried that 160 Hp in a compact isn't enough.

    Why does everyone want to be able to go 70 MPH uphill in a wind storm in first gear. Don't people enjoy running through the gears and actually driving their cars?

    These folks must HATE the Miata. Not enough torque to start from a standing start in 4th gear.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I will go along with the opinion that the 2.3/auto combination in the 6i is lacking low end. However, the 6s/auto has plenty of low end for the car."

    I drove both at a very-low-speed closed course sponsored by the Mazda Rev It Up. So I can't tell much about the power. But a friend of mine who test drove both felt that the 6s got a huge power jump above the low range rpm compare to the 6i. I didn't say the 6i got more low end than the 6s.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "An hour at 75-80 in my Protege' and I was ready for new kidneys."

    I also noticed that the Protege after '94 all got very firm springs! At least my '90 sport model LX rode quite comfortably after I replaced the original non-gas struts w/ Gabriel GasRyders.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    I do agree the Mazda6 is more refined, etc. You have to keep in mind that my opinions are based on 10 minute test drives with each car on seperate days. You have more experience with the cars so you're probably right. Just the thing that stood out most for me was how sluggish the Mazda6 felt. I didn't push it hard and if the lack of low-end torque is true it's no wonder it felt sluggish to me. I didn't push the Protege hard either but it just "felt" faster to me. And I thought the Protege's steering and handling was better but again this is based on short test drives. The Mazda6 was much more comfortable however. I'm really interested in the Mazda3 though so I'll wait for it first and see if I like it. If I simply can't find a car I really like based on emotion I'll probably go with a Hyundai Elantra based on the good price and good warranty, and asssuming the test drive goes ok.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    If the stuff you're saying is even remotely true I've probably found my next car. Japanese reliability, Volvo safety, excellent chassis, Protege handling with a comfortable ride, nice looking interior, etc. Everything that I want seems to be there. If the price is reasonable, the options I want are available, and the sedan looks ok then I'll be happy.

    And the TSX is 3300lbs. or so right? And 166lb/ft of torque? With an automatic I bet that thing is pretty slow. And it costs $25,000? It has a good looking interior but not sure if that justifies the price. The Mazda6 and Mazda3 are looking better all the time.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    I'm not overly worried but somewhat worried. We don't have the weight, hp/torque figures, etc. yet so we'll have to wait and see. Based on my short test drive in the Mazda6, I'm not sure if I would like the Mazda3 to feel the same way. Sure the Mazda3 will be lighter, but hp and torque may be lowered also, there's no official word that the 2.3 will have the same hp and torque. Either way, I'll take many things into consideration before making a decision, not just how fast it is or how fast it feels, but it would certainly be a positive.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Actually I don't think anyone addressed your question so I will, but I won't be any help. All I know is it is still a rumor, there's been no official word from Mazda that I know of. I think it can be safely said that it's still a rumor. The likelyhood of them making one? No idea, pure speculation at this point.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "Sure the Mazda3 will be lighter, but hp and torque may be lowered also, there's no official word that the 2.3 will have the same hp and torque."

    Chances are, if any, smaller space might restrict the exhaust flow a little, but that mainly only sacrifices the high-rpm performance. Rest of the output curve shouldn't be affected much.
  • riopelleriopelle Member Posts: 132
    Thanks for the response. Edmunds is saying a 3-door will happen, and I am suprised there isn't more of a call for a new GTX. Mazda sure could use a hothatch in the burgeoning market, and a 4WD variant would compete well with the WRX, R32 and SVT. Still, a 3-door with even the 2.3 would interest me, especially with traction control and heated seats.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Hmmm..it seems you're right. Didn't realize Edmunds was saying that. Of course until Mazda says anything there's no way to know if it's true or not, but I think it's very possible. The Mazda6 has 3 variations and so far the Mazda3 only has 2 confirmed. I'm not very familiar with Japan's and Europe's buying habits but I would think if the market can handle 3 variations of the Mazda6 that a cheaper car like the Mazda3 could handle 3 variations as well. The sedan and five-door are going to be shown in September at the Frankfurt show so hopefully you'll have your answer then or possibly sooner. Edmunds gives me the impression though that the 5-door is coming first and the sedan comes later. I thought they would be arriving at the same time.

    I hope Edmunds is right about the "crisp styling" because even though I think the current Jetta sedan is nice it could easily turn ugly at the hands of Mazda. The sedan is suppose to favor the Jetta which I don't really mind, I just hope the exterior comes together and works. Mazda seems to be going very European, a lot of people say the Sportif reminds them of an Alfa Romeo. And on top of that the interior reminds people of an Audi. So now the sedan will look like a Jetta? Let's hope Mazda can pull this off.
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    I saw that reference too. The car in question is the 147, not really like anything ever sold in the US market. I agree that the images I've seen so far of the Mazda3 (sportif) look quite a bit like the 147.
  • wongpreswongpres Member Posts: 422
    The 3-door Mazda3 is still unconfirmed, but even if it does come out, it'll be a while away.

    The next bodystyle off the Mazda3 platform will be the Mazda4. It is the replacement to the current Mazda Premacy and won't be sold in N. America. The Mazda4's bodystyle is like a miniature version of N. American minivans. If you want to get an idea of how the Mazda4 looks like, just look at the Ford Focus C-Max that debuted at this year's Geneva autoshow. The side and rear of the Mazda4 is almost identical to the C-Max. The Mazda4 will make it's world debut at the '04 Geneva auto show.
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    I agree that the back half of the MX Sportif looks a heck of a lot like the 147 (I did a Google image search, I had never heard of that car). Especially the shape of the rear window, with the little point at the bottom. You might even say they ripped off the Alfa completely. The front of the Mazda looks better than the Alfa though, IMHO. It's a pretty nice little car to take after.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    The front remind of me of a Camry SE. Does anybody else think that? The wagon won't have the youth buyers the Pro 5 has from the photo's I'm seeing of the 3 hatch. Anybody seen the Sedan Photo's?
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Yeah it does kinda look like the Camry SE from the front. And you may be right about youth buyers not liking it as much as the current Protege 5. I've already heard a lot of people saying the current Pro 5 is better looking than the Sportif. But I guess we won't really know until we can see it in person. And the only sedan photos I've seen were the photoshop ones made by that magazine that was floating around a few months back. I don't think they have any on the street like the wagon. They were probably accurate though, it kinda resembled a Jetta. I just hope US license plates don't look weird on the rear bumper, looks like it might hang off some.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    The smaller-shield grill distinguishes it apart from the Camry.

    The Protege5 is the only competitor for the IS300 SportCross, look wise. It even looks like a lower-height version of the BMW X5. I don't like any one of them, especially look wise.

    Well, at least this kind of styling can steal the sales from the SUVs, & therefore, help us "clean up" the road.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Mazda wanted to be young and fun. The Sportif I hope doesn't take them back to 1996 where they were in bankruptcy and had no idenity. I heard Mazda lost one of their car designers to Suzuki. It seems Mazda has to style cars that are perfect in design where as Honda and Toyota can get away with any design. One small mistake with the Mazda 3 hatch and Mazda might be in trouble again. The Pro 5 is a youth car so I figure the 3 hatch should follow the youth tradition the Protege 5 has layed out. Mazda might have missed the boat on this one ala 95 Protege and 98 626. Looking like a Toyota is something I don't think Mazda would want.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    This is a spyshot of the European version of the car. In most parts of the world Mazda has a basix version of the 5-door. Things will likely be sported up considerably for the North American market and in the sport verison overseas.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "The Pro 5 is a youth car so I figure the 3 hatch should follow the youth tradition the Protege 5 has layed out."

    The Pro 5 hatch is just an ugly wagon-looking car, so what if it looks like a sleeker version of the clumsy SUV? You want today's youth-on-drug type of loser design? Try the vertical-windshield Scion. Welcome to the 19th century. Ugly or not, let's hope the Mazda3 hatch will sell in high numbers & keep Mazda profitable so there's gonna be good varieties of choice on Mazda vehicles we're gonna buy.

    Have you seen the 5-door 323 hatchback before and after '95? Both generations of these hatchback 5-dr "Proteges" are making the regular Protege sedans grandpa-ish. I never felt sorry for not able to own any one of them 'cause I still prefer the notchback's wider rear visibility for lane change ease.

    When the Mazda RX-8 was just an RX-Evolv concept, there was another Mazda 2-seat concept. It looks like a cute compact version of an Italian exotic. I can't believe Mazda scrapped it.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    "Yep, I thought those are "Camry SE" head lights"

    I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. Those look just like the headlights on the MX show car and appear to be projector style like the current Miata. The general shape of the clear plastic cover over the headlights might resemble the Camry, but so do half the new sedans on the road. Personally, I am glad they did not rake the headlights too far back like the Focus and Accord.
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    I like the new design better than the P5. Looks more modern, more european. Both are good in my book.
  • riopelleriopelle Member Posts: 132
    More hatchy, less wagonesque than the P5. Looks shorter, with a resemblance to the Mazda2 and serious hints of Peugeot and VW Golf.

    Will look great as a 3 door.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Thts your opinion. I like it. We all have different tastes. I don't like Scion.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Maybe the 3 hatch is for older buyers while the 3 sedan sis for younger buyers since Mazda wants the 3 sedan to be like the current Jetta. Now as it stands the Pro Sedan is for the older buyers where as the Pro 5 buyers are younger buyers.

    I hope Mazda doesn't start to be very italian like with their styling now like Lexus was trying to be Mercedes with their styling in the mid 90's. Thew current Mazda styling theme is very Japanese with touchings of Euro styling with the 6 and Pro(sedan and hatch.) I like their current styling theme. I don't want Mazda getting to Euro while losing their Japanese Styling roots.
  • mazfan1mazfan1 Member Posts: 26
    I emailed Mazda to ask when the Mazda3 will be release and they said:

    Thank you also for your complimentary remarks regarding our upcoming
    c-class vehicle that you referred to as the "MAZDA3" (yet to be
    officially named). This vehicle is not expected to be released within
    this calendar year. No release dates have yet been estimated for this
    vehicle but it is not expected until after the first quarter of 2004.

    So I am guessing the Mazda3 will be a 2005 model and debut at the dealerships sometime from Sept. to Nov. of 2004.

    So if the Mazda Protege and Pro5 last year is 2003 want that means there wont be any 2004 model? But if thats true Mazda have did this before with the Miata there wasnt a 1998 model. The new 1999s came out early 1998 around April. There were left overs 1997 models till the 1999s came out.

    Thanks in Advance!
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    "it is not expected until after the first quarter of 2004"

    even if they release it in the 2nd quarter of 2004 it'll STILL be considered a 2004 model.

    usually only if a car is released AFTER 2nd quarter (eg June-July release) can it be considered for the next model year.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    The new '03 Corolla came out in March '02. Or at least by April, the '04 Sienna & TSX came out. Chevy did that w/ '80 Citation in April '79.

    Only the introduction of the very 1st Camry is an '83 on March of '83.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    interesting.

    sort of like what Mazda did when they were transitioning from the 2nd gen to 3rd gen RX-7

    the 91 RX-7 was the last 2nd gen model year, and during mid '92 the 3rd gen RX-7 came out as a '93 model.

    so if you look into the records, there never was a '92 RX-7, but they didn't stop selling them during that time.

    Maybe there'll be no 'official' '04 Protege/3???
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "Thew current Mazda styling theme is very Japanese with touchings of Euro styling with the 6 and Pro(sedan and hatch.) I like their current styling theme."

    I believe the current Protege is styled in Germany, w/ conservative looks & something I hate - a rather narrower rear glass for the sedan like the current BMW 3-series, but not as bad as the Acura TSX.

    I like the way Mazda6 looks.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I liked the 99-00 Protege sedans. When they refreshed the headlights between the 00 and 01 model years for some reason the back end and front end didn't match very well. I don't find it conservative but I don't find it dull either. You don't want your cars looking exactly like 90's styled Pontiacs. Was the Pro 5 styled in Germany or just the Pro Sedan was?
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    The 01+ Protege's (sans the P5/MP3/MSP) look like they are smiling or something. The rounded headlights don't match the chiseled look of the rest of the car.
  • drumm01drumm01 Member Posts: 97
    Well after seeing that spy picture I have to say that I really don't like it.... yet! I don't like the back, the front looks "ok". I am not going to get too upset being that this is simply a spy pic and will wait till the final product comes to the showrooms. I am definitely looking forward to the sedan version..
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    The headlights for the 01+ base Protege Sedans I agree does not match the rest of the car. I think the Pro 5, MSP. and MP3 the rounded headlights work well though. The MP3 and MSP are enthusiast's car so that kind of look on the front end does work for an enthusiast car sort of like the big gille works for the Mitsu Lancer Evo but not on the base model Lancer. The Pro 5 I do think the front end and back end match up well. Those headlights have no business being on the base Protege Sedan's(DX, LX, ES) though.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    got some word on pricing today....they expect the MZ3 to come in at the same price of the current protege without the incentive.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    MZ3? When will we get the 3 sedan?
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Glad to hear the Mazda3 will be around the same price as the current one. After a year or two it will be a great bargain if you can get it at the same price as the current one with rebates.

    Hopefully it won't have any blatant cost-cutting though. To me the 2001 Civic had too much obvious cost-cutting going on, but at least now they have addressed a few of those problems. I read an article the other day how the Mazda 4-cylinder engine cost them about $1,200 a piece to make. It didn't mention how much the one in the current Protege cost but I got the impression that it cost them more to make than the new one does. And since 60% of the car will be related to the Focus and S40 then maybe that's how they're saving some money to keep the price in line with the current one. It just seems the car overall is moving up a level in every way. Unlike for example the 2001 Civic, which lost the wishbone suspension, no body-colored mirrors, door handles, 14" wheels, very little power gain, and a fairly cheap-looking interior on the LX. When it first came out I couldn't understand why anyone would pay even close to MSRP for it, didn't seem like a good value at all except if the reliability held up and someone took advantage of the high resale value.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    the 96-00 Civic was beautiful. The 01+ Coupe looks nice though. Your right about the interior though. I think Honda put the nicer interior in the RSX rather than put the nicer interior in the 01+ Civic(the RSX and Civic share the same platform.) I do hope Honda does do a better job with the 2006 Civic. I hope the double wishbone comes back in the Civic in the future.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    at this point it's looking like mid to late fall.

    I expect/hope to get details on this car for the next allocation cycle...which is mid july. I will post the details when I get them.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    when you get it AudiA8Q.

    Thanx!
    Dinu

    PS: Mazda3. Mazda6. Which one should I get???
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    If you're willing to start monthly contributions into the "Let's get Dinu an RX-8 Dream Fund", then definitely! :)

    Dinu
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    At least it is more in the same price range as the 6. Better get the hard top, the LSD (no, not that -- a limited slip differential), and some good snow tires for winter. ;-)
  • eteaetea Member Posts: 30
    The info I got so far is that the Mz3:

    - Will be out for September '03 (Newspaper and dealer)
    - Will be out in March '04 (another dealer)
    - Will be out in November '04 (Another newspaper and another dealer)

    I've been shopping for a P5, as my car is getting really old... the 36 month rental being the cheapest option (even if I have the money to buy.. go figure). But unfortunately, we're far from having the incentives you got in the US. 0% for 24 months (buy)... but no cash incentive or options, ...

    I guess I'll wait for next month's promotions (as the sales have been decreasing for Mazda). Meanwhile, maybe we'll have more hint wether or not the Mz3 will be coming out in the next 5 months in Canada.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "Was the Pro 5 styled in Germany or just the Pro Sedan was?"

    At least the sedan, not sure about the hatch, although it was introduced the same time as the sedan in the foreign markets.

    Anyway, I find the 6 w/ sport package, especially in white, looking like an expensive exotic when viewed in person. The P5 is so wagon-ish. If you check out the previous generations, both pre & post '95, you'll know what I meant. They really look like 4-door fastback sports cars & belong to the Mazda6's family looks:

    http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Mazda_323_1995.html

    & like the MX-3, 1.8 V6, & 2.0 V6 after '95.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    These days, kids want un-cars because their parents drive cars so they find them either boring or old fashion. So som'in like Hummer H2 would do, that's why the smoother Element works. I guess the P5/Mazda3 5-dr, instead of "sports car" looking, is turning "sport utility" looking. So it's up to the fastback sedan 3 to continue w/ the sports car tradition, just like its 6 brother.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "...Unlike for example the 2001 Civic, which lost the wishbone suspension, no body-colored mirrors, door handles, 14" wheels, very little power gain, and a fairly cheap-looking interior on the LX..."

    The roomy(even check out the absence of center tunnel!) '01 Civic was degraded on purpose so people would go for the Accord instead. But when CR rated the Hyundai Elantra superior in quietness & ride comfort, Honda immediately did something for '02 w/ better sound insulation & tightened suspension tuning. Well, too late, this strut set up couldn't be improved very far, & C&D ended up calling it "a loser".
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    In this 11 June 2003 AUTOCAR I just bought last week, eventhough no info on the new 3, there are continuous reference to the Focus suspension/steering.

    1st, p9, the high hope of this "It will be a true BMW in the way it drives" new BMW 1-series is - "A hot hatch mixing the VW Golf's quality with the dynamic talent of a Focus, topped off by a BMW badge and a (uk$)15,000 asking price..."

    Well, how about the classic-Audi-A4-like-dashboard Mazda3 w/ a Focus-II steering/suspension & a reputable reliable Mazda badge?

    P37, the 1st Focus II - C-Max 5-seat minivan - test ride:

      "There's no chance I'll be behind the wheel but Reynell(a Ford guy) promises we won't be disappointed. Despite the switch to electro-hydraulic assistance and the isolated front subframe that come with the new Focus platform, he reckons the steering will be as good as that of the Focus. 'For me the steering is your prime interface with the car. If it's wrong your whole perception of the car will be adversely affected.'
      He takes us over some poorly surfaced roads around Saarlouis, the car sitting on the optional firmer sports suspension and 17-inch wheels. Despite this it's amazing how well it rides. Its filtration of unpleasantness from the road surface is near-complete, but as with the current Focus you aren't completely isolated; it leaves you with a sense of the road beneath. Body control is tight and it corners flatly for a tall car. Add the ride to the trim quality and you'd think you were in something much more expensive."

    So w/o a tall body, the Mazda3 can corner flatly w/o a sport suspension & rides even better especially w/ 16"?

    Pp46-51 - Alfa 147 2.0 vs Audi A3 2.0 FSI vs BMW 318ti SE vs C180 coupe:

    The Alfa w/ 16" is simply an unrefined forget-it, due to its hard ride w/o the expected body control.

    The (new-Golf based)Audi w/ 16" may be quiet, but rides even worse than the unsettled-riding BMW hatch w/ 17" & provides a lifeless and oddly weighted steering, not to mention the awkwardly over-servoed brakes.

    This hatchback BMW w/ std sport suspension - "It's busy at low speed on the optional 17in alloys, too, and never fully settles the way its saloon and coupe relatives do on our roads. In fact, coupled that with plenty of wind noise at a motorway cruise and the BM is a restless machine..."

    The Mercedes hatchback w/ 16" is the winner in this group comparison mainly due to its best ride, quietness & Kompressor power - "Its chassis is composed and fun, its drivetrain offers something a Focus owner could only dream of."

    I don't think owners of the Mazda3 w/ normally-aspirated Japanese engines will envy Mercedes' Kompressor units. A true driver's car like BMWs will never force-fed their gasoline engines.

    But no matter how prestigious or expensive these 4 European cars are, AUTOCAR quoted "(accepting, as we now must, that a Ford is dynamically superior to them all)", p.49.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    The Hummer is 50 Grand so thats not going to appeal to a younger audience and the average age buyer of the Element is 41.

    As for the 01+ Civic Honda wanted people to buy the Accord instead so thats why they took out the double wishone suspension? Honda management should know the Civic and Accord targets different customers. That was a mistake by Honda.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Those cars look very italian-ish from the front view of those cars. I didn't see the back end of the 323 though. The 95 323 looks like a hot-road though. I see definate Mazda 6 influences in those 2 pictures though.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    & at least the '95-98 is styled in Germany, or at least in Europe.
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