Mazda3

creakid1 · June 2003

"Honda management should know the Civic and Accord targets different customers. That was a mistake by Honda."

You're right. There are still a lot of North American buyers looking for a nimble-size car. The Accord is too long, too fat, & too large turning circle. But I've seen people saying that if the back seat of the Civic is already so roomy, why bother w/ the Accord? Actually, I don't even think those Civic back seats are tall enough to be comfy.

creakid1 · June 2003

Again, 11 June 2003 AUTOCAR p46:

"Individually none is bad, but the general (in)competence level has shocked me because even the best car here>>Mercedes C180K S Coupe<< doesn't come close to the basic dynamic standards set by the four-and-the-half-year-old Ford Focus. And for the money being asked that's criminal.
But is that valid criticism? You bet it is."

This is got to be one of the bravest magazines, even more so than C&D, & only found in the Great Britain.

carguy58 · June 2003

The Civic is a compact car. The accord is a mid-sizer. I don't want a compact car as a car to stroll a family around.

johnclineii · June 2003

This is the Mazda3 forum. I do believe the Mazda3 will be a compact car, no?

pzev · June 2003

"I guess the P5/Mazda3 5-dr, instead of "sports car" looking, is turning "sport utility" looking. So it's up to the fastback sedan 3 to continue w/ the sports car tradition, just like its 6 brother."

I sure hope you're right. It makes me wonder though, do many people call the non sport package Mazda6 sporty looking? It's a very attractive car yes, but without the sport package it's kind of bland at the same time. Sure both the sedan and wagon will drive sporty, but look sporty? I'm not so sure yet, it seems the Mazda3 sedan will look like a Mazda6 except shorter and with a c-pillar similar to the new Nissan Maxima. I don't know if that will appeal to the younger crowd either. The current Protege 5 is very sporty looking, Mazda needs to make the Mazda3 look sporty too. As long as it looks as good as the Mazda6 though I won't complain, but again is the Mazda6 appealing to the younger crowd?

pzev · June 2003

"So w/o a tall body, the Mazda3 can corner flatly w/o a sport suspension & rides even better especially w/ 16"?"

This sums up a lot of reasons why I'm so interested in the Mazda3. I do NOT want a tall body, and I don't want a huge wheel gap like the Corolla. I want a good handling and good braking car, with a nice interior, good reliability, sporty even without a sport package, nice wheels, and a nice ride. It seems the Mazda3 has a good chance of being able to do all these things.

By the way, anybody know how the new chassis will compare to the current Focus platform? Is it pretty much the same or are they changing a lot of it compared to the current one?

tomcat630 · June 2003

Is the US Mazda 3 really coming this fall?

Also, the Ford Transmission did not "put Mazda into bankruptcy". Mazda never did declare bankruptcy, ever! They were reorganized and model lines were pared down. Now, they are doing fine world wide. No need for doomsayers.

creakid1 · June 2003

"It makes me wonder though, do many people call the non sport package Mazda6 sporty looking? It's a very attractive car yes, but without the sport package it's kind of bland at the same time."

To me, a white 6 w/ sport pack looks like the son of the "fighter-jet looking" Lambo Contach. W/ darker colors, having no body kit may look more right & less tacky. & yes, still sportier looking than just about any other sedan, just avoid those factory plastic wheel covers.

"As long as it looks as good as the Mazda6 though I won't complain..."

Good luck! I seriously doubt if it that'll be the case, although I believe the 3 will have twice the inner beauty as the 6.

"By the way, anybody know how the new chassis will compare to the current Focus platform? Is it pretty much the same or are they changing a lot of it compared to the current one?"

Besides a longer wheelbase, "the isolated front subframe" & "the front-end packaging/body structure by Volvo for safety", I don't know what else's different.

panamaltd2 · June 2003

"...although I believe the 3 will have twice the inner beauty as the 6."

I highly doubt this, the Mazda6 platform is going to be used for Volvos and other high end FoMoCo products. The 3 will be very good, but not better than the 6. The 6 is truly an amazing car, I just traded my 2000 Protege on a Silver 6 w/Sport package and I have been blown away. Mazda is really taking off.

creakid1 · June 2003

"I just traded my 2000 Protege on a Silver 6 w/Sport package and I have been blown away."

The boomy & fidgety-riding Japanese-platform 2000 Protege? I can understand.

But when I got my softer-riding(6.7" front & 8.9" rear travel) sport model Protege LX back in '90, the 2-year-old-design 626 had almost no suspension travel! So sometimes Mazda allows the lesser model to leap frog the higher-end model when redesigned. Only the quietness was never excelled over the 626.

This Focus II system is also a 3-series-competing Volvo!
creakid1 "New S40/V50 WHEN?" Jun 4, 2003 2:12am

Volvo's not gonna use the 6's platform. Mondeo & Volvos are sharing a non-6 Euro platform in the coming future. The present S80/V70/S60 Volvo platform might be used for the big Ford Five Hundred.

panamaltd2 · June 2003

Well, you can believe what you want. I am friends with a senior designer at Mazda R&D in Irvine Califonia and he is always talking about how much FoMoCo is in love with the Mazda6 platform. He says the 3 will be more agile because of the car's smaller size but the 6 will remain the most refined and sophisticated. There will be no leap frogging, Mazda has a very defined direction for each of its models now. Also, my 2000 Protege was NEVER "fidgety" although it was rather loud. The Protege is a wonderful car and I would never say a bad word about it. I would expect the dynamics of the 6 and the 3 to be very similar but the old saying, "you get what you pay for" still counts at Mazda.

creakid1 · June 2003

"He says the 3 will be more agile because of the car's smaller size but the 6 will remain the most refined and sophisticated."

Well, there goes my dream. ;-) I already wished I can get som'in a little quieter & smaller than the big-turning-circle 6 but don't want to spend on an unreliable BMW. Even if I can afford the Volvo version of the Mazda3, I'd rather not getting the less reliable European car.

"Also, my 2000 Protege was NEVER 'fidgety' although it was rather loud."

Someone said his was "fidgety riding", but here's another owner who said "ready for new kidneys" after an hour ride. Was yours an LX w/ smaller diameter wheels so rode a little cushier?

Read #361:
glideslopes Jun 9, 2003 4:18pm

I really thought the Euro-suspension Mazda3 is the cure.

johnclineii · June 2003

Ride is a VERY subjective thing. The only way you will know whether or not you will be happy with the Mazda3 is to drive one. When they come out, I presume!

the_big_h · June 2003

Hofu City, Japan - Mazda Motor Corporation today began production of its next 'new generation' vehicle. The new product - to be named "Mazda Axela" in the Japanese market and Mazda3 in all other global markets - is the fourth all-new Mazda developed under the company's DNA-focused product creation system and will follow closely the success of the Mazda6 (known as the Atenza in Japan), Mazda2 (Demio) and Mazda RX-8. The newest Mazda will be officially launched at the 60th Frankfurt Motor Show in early September 2003.

and I DO have official pictures of the 3, I will post them shortly, if that is ok with everyone :-) (that means you malt, is it ok if I let it out???)

panamaltd2 · June 2003

Please, Please, post those pictures! I already have the car of my dreams (Mazda6) but I am a Mazda enthusiast none-the-less!

creakid1 = I doubt the 3 will be any quitter than the 6 but it will be a very fine car none-the-less. Suspensions are subjective only because different people like different feelings. The sportiness and sophistication of a suspension is not really subjective. The 3 will have a euro suspension but than so does the 6.

panamaltd2 · June 2003

Wow, that looks great, but what about the sedan??

carguy58 · June 2003

Get rid of the clear lenses on the tailights. The Front End needs some starightening out. Not my style but should get youth buyers. I think its bigger in size than the Protege 5. I can't wait for the sedan! The earlier pictures look so promising.

tomcat630 · June 2003

Can't wait to see it in the flesh! The clear lenses will problably not be on the US model, like the 6.

creakid1 · June 2003

When I got my '90 redesigned Protege, the front viewed from a distance also looked "identical" to the Mazda MPV back then.

This new 3's narrow grill is also PT Cruiser-ish, as if it's its closest competitor.

The sedan can't be much better, especially the front end. But no matter how ugly it'll be, it's still the world's best. I'll be proud to be its owner. ;-) & tell chicks who won't let me pick up to go to hell!

panamaltd2 · June 2003

I think this thing looks GREAT! All you doubters should wait until you see it in the flesh. Apparently the sedan and the hatch are quite different but Mazda has been so quiet with the sedan. Weird!

carguy58 · June 2003

I wouldn't count on it looking like that exactly. I'm sure Mazda will straighten it out a little bit. I don't think its an ugly car it just needs some tweaking on the exterior especially the front grille. It looks "playful".

johnclineii · June 2003

I can just imagine what you people would be saying about this vehicle if the badge on the front said Chevrolet, he observed dryly.

meinrad · June 2003

but I hate that color.

If I saw it in dark blue or titanium, I'd really like it.

mazdafun · June 2003

I like the current P5 more though.

I can see why they changed it to more closely resemble the 6, but the 6 looks sleeker to my eyes.

And I notice it has the same styling on the wheels as the RX-8's, which is the only thing I don't like about the RX-8. Ugh.

The front probably has the optional body-color grille. The stock is probably black mesh with a chromed strip.

I could live with it if it's as reliable and fun-to-drive as the current Protege/P5. But I won't be gushing over its looks, like I do over the P5's.

drumm01 · June 2003

I am sorry if this has been asked before, but will there be a Mazda3 SEDAN? Can someone please answer that? I love the pictures, but everything I see is geared to the HATCH and I have not seen one picture, or comment on a sedan.

Does anyone knows anything about it?

Thanks,
Drumm

capitano · June 2003

I'd prefer that to the current P5. When are these things going to be available here?

etea · June 2003

http://www.axela.mazda.co.jp/

The best I could get, as a non japanese speaker, is to click on concept.

Is there anyone that could translate?

I really like the Mazda3!

wongpres · June 2003

Yes, there will be a sedan, official pictures just haven't been released yet (and I'm pretty sure that only production of the hatch has begun). 'Illustrations' of the sedan have been posted on this board (near the beginning).

capitano · June 2003

Hmm. Chrome rings on gauges. Two tone leather. 147Hp. 138 ft-lb. How much of that are we getting?

Looks like they've gone to a non-standard stero arrangement similar to the 6.

drumm01 · June 2003

Thanks Wongpres.. I have seen those images of the sedan, it's just that with so much info on the hatch (including these current pictures shown today)and little info on the sedan, I was begining to wonder if there would be a sedan available at all..

mazdafun · June 2003

Thanks for the links for the pics and site!

Despite my lukewarm reaction to the styling, I am very interested in this Protege replacement.

The engine specs should translate over, as well as the chrome rings (I could skip these...too much glare) and the leather is likely an option (cloth for me, please).

I don't like that non-standard stereo either. It looks fine and easy to use, but I enjoy being able to plug my iPod into a front AUX jack on my aftermarket head unit on long road trips.

capitano · June 2003

will have to get dumbed down for the US Market. Cars like this can offer premium upgrade in other markets because these cars are appreciated. Here it's closely associated with the econoboxes. Who wants to plunk down for two-tone leather on a Mazda?

newcar31 · June 2003

"Who wants to plunk down for two-tone leather on a Mazda?"

The Focus SVT has two tone leather right now. I'll bet the two tone leather in the Mazda3 will come with the performance version. Before the Jetta III, people probably asked the same question about the Jetta. Who wants to plunk down for leather in a Jetta? Lots of people.

And why only 147 hp? Why can't the 2.3L in the Mazda3 make the same power as the 6? The Mazda3's exhaust can't be THAT restrictive.

the_big_h · June 2003

is the 2.0 engine in the MX Sportif concept...

click through the Japan Axela site, you'll note the spec page is for the Sportif.

I'm guessing the 2.3 will be at least 150, or Mazda will be smart and keep it at 160, a la Mazda6i

capitano · June 2003

is there going to be a Mazdaspeed version of this car? Say it does get the 2.3 and 160HP, will they turbocharge that for a MS version? 200HP?

the_big_h · June 2003

if they are gonna put out a 280hp awd Mazdaspeed6 :-)

and the 2.3L engine would be an optional engine on standard 3's, not a Mazdaspeed special :-)

is it me or is Mazda trying to up the trims and performance to match that of the Golf/GTI/Jetta?

newcar31 · June 2003

Months ago, Motor Trend reported that the next generation Focus SVT would come with a 225 hp turbocharged Mazda 4 cyl.

I think Big-h is right, the 2.3L will be a middle of the line engine with the 2.0L at the bottom and the unspecified displacement 225 hp turbo engine at the top.

capitano · June 2003

I see that as something worthwhile for them overseas where people like nice stuff but don't want to buy a barge to get it. Americans tend to equate size with greatness and we are less inclined to go for a gussied-up little car.

I know VW has something going in this area but they have a "german engineering" thing going for them (despite their reliability problems).

GTIs used to be the hot hatch to have, but anymore the Japanese seem to own this area. I was looking through a comparo between the Civic Si, Focus SVT and GTI and one comment was that the GTI lacked "street cred."

newcar31 · June 2003

"but they have a "german engineering" thing going for them (despite their reliability problems)."

Which really means nothing. What is "German engineering"? Is the Protege "German engineered" since it was partially designed in Germany? It's too bad "German engineering" is something that VW can hang their hat on because IMO it means nothing when it comes to VW. Their interiors are special, but as far as mechanicals go, there isn't anything special. In VW's case, "German engineering" with respect to mechanicals means inferior engineering IMO.

capitano · June 2003

That's basically what I was alluding to. VW benefits from the reputation of MB and BMW without having to meet their standards. Perhaps that's why they have put so much effort into nice interiors - to complete the illusion that you are getting highly touted precision german engineering. All the VW ads I hear on the radio mention german engineering and it must have some effect on people. Their Audi division isn't winning any awards for reliability either. But Audi is at least identified as a luxo brand.

So why would Mazda try to compete with something like the GTI or Jetta if they can't claim the german engineering bonus points?

the_big_h · June 2003

german engineering, japanese build quality/reliability ;-)

newcar31 · June 2003

German engineering because Mazda already has a rich engineering history of their own, more so than VW.

But most people don't know that and "German engineering" is somehow appealing to customers even if it really doesn't mean much. On top of that, many people don't even know that Jettas are made in Mexico. I have a friend who just bought a Jetta GLI and the salesman told him that it arrived at a "port" in Texas. What a clever way to hide the fact that the Jetta came from Mexico. What the commercials should say is "German engineered and Mexican assembled". There's got to be some reason why truly "German engineered" cars like the S-class and 7-series don't come from places like Aquas Calientes.

pzev · June 2003

Looks better than I thought it would. The overall shape still looks kind of minivan-ish but otherwise looks pretty good. If I was interested in the hatchback I might be more disappointed but I'm only interested in the sedan so the overall shape doesn't concern me too much. The front and back and interior look great to me, except for the clear taillights which look kind of smoked in the pics. Hopefully we'll get red taillights instead.

Can anyone tell what size wheels those are? Looks like 17" right? So this is probably the sport package and the normal versions will have different wheels and a chrome grill. Not interested in the sport package but those wheels look great on it. Kind of wish they made 16" versions of those and put them on the non sport package versions. I guess the spy pics of the blue one had the 16" versions on, which look fine too. I have a feeling that the black glossy stuff is only in the sport package as well, kind of like the silver trim is only in the current Protege ES. If the sedan has a nice overall shape and the beige interior looks good then I'm going to really like this car. I'm going to assume it will handle as well as the current Protege and have a better ride too, but we'll see. They've already started making them right? Won't be long before some reviews start to show up and we can hear some opinions from some magazines. Looks like they're saving the sedan for the autoshow in September.

creakid1 · June 2003

"I know VW has something going in this area but they have a "german engineering" thing going for them (despite their reliability problems)."

In case you don't know that the 3 has German engineering(albeit "only" a Focus II, but only the "award winning steering/suspension" part) w/ a "German name" - abbreviated "M3". Unlike the Jetta, it's not built in Mexico! & the made-in-Japan 3 deserves to cost more than the Jetta, don't you think? Com'on, give us higher price than the 6 w/ more refinement! So I won't have to buy the quiet but poor-steering upcoming Jetta V ;-)

Even the Focus I platform was almost adopted by BMW!

capitano · June 2003

The market would never buy into the Mazda3 with german engineering. Regardless of the reality, people seem to buy into nameplates. It doesn't matter if the Mazda3 was built in Kenya, it would still be labeled a japanese car.

I've had this argument with my "domesticated" co-workers who are of another generation. To them japanese means cheap import threatening the honest american working man. I always ask why it would be better for me to buy a GM product from Canada or a Ford product from Mexico instead of a japanese car built in Ohio. They usually have no answer other than it matters which CEO ultimately gets paid.

creakid1 · June 2003

"VW benefits from the reputation of MB and BMW without having to meet their standards. Perhaps that's why they have put so much effort into nice interiors - to complete the illusion that you are getting highly touted precision german engineering."

But back then, Japanese cars could only provide comfort levels for the peasants, & the made-in-WestGermany '78 VW Rabbit L, albeit noisy, was the comfy & good handling "Mercedes" of compacts, per C&D July '78 comparison.

The new-for-'99 Jetta IV is still the plushest-riding & even quietest small fwd car in America today, ahead of the Focus in these areas. Even the '99 Avalon didn't seem to ride as absorbent. Only the numb steering feedback started on this generation ruined it.

I got to tell you som'in I'm a shamed of the Japanese engineering. When I got my brand new redesigned '90 Protege LX & showed it off to my friend, only to find out that her old Rabbit-shaped Jetta I rode better! So recently, since my Protege is still lasting forever, I simply invested over $10k to restore a "vintage" '84 Jetta I, just to get the feel of the uncannily comfortable German ride & the excellent raw-&-fun manual steering all incredibly packed in a pint-size nimble car! This old VW platform was engineered in the early '70's & still rides way more comfortable than the '90 new-design Protege, which already rides much more absorbent than the shallow-spring '90 626!

Even today, the Protege is behind Jetta in quietness & behind both Jetta & Focus in ride comfort. Now: Protege + Focus = good ride but-still-noisier-than-the-Jetta Mazda3, which can still laugh at Jetta IV & V's numb steering feedback & reliability.

drumm01 · June 2003

I have both a 2002 Protege ES and a 2002 Jetta at my house (my wife drives the Jetta). And I agree that the Jetta is ahead of the Protege in quietness and in ride comfort. Plus I think the Jetta is also head of the Protege as far as built quality...

Now with that said, I have to say that the Protege is far, far, faaar more fun to drive than the Jetta. HANDS DOWN.. The Protege handles much better that the Jetta and has a "lightness" about it. To me the Protege is more of a Driver's Car than the Jetta which seems more of a sedan.

Oh and the Protege has much more comfortable seats that the Jetta. Even though the Jetta's seats are thicker and a sweet arm rest, the driving position can seriously kill you in long drives. While the Protege's seats are amazingly comfortable with it's multi-position seats..

So in my opinion, they are both great cars... just different animals

creakid1 · June 2003

I noticed it. I'm 5'11" & I hate the long-arm/short-leg driving position of the transverse-engine VWs, & had to remove my shoes every time just to compensate partially. The 1st FWD 626(1983) gave me an extremely impressive driving position. The new 6's is so good that one Brit magazine called it "intelligent driving position".

drumm01 · June 2003

I have both a 2002 Protege ES and a 2002 Jetta at my house (my wife drives the Jetta). And I agree that the Jetta is ahead of the Protege in quietness and in ride comfort. Plus I think the Jetta is also head of the Protege as far as built quality...

Now with that said, I have to say that the Protege is far, far, faaar more fun to drive than the Jetta. HANDS DOWN.. The Protege handles much better that the Jetta and has a "lightness" about it. To me the Protege is more of a Driver's Car than the Jetta which seems more of a sedan.

Oh and the Protege has much more comfortable seats that the Jetta. Even though the Jetta's seats are thicker and a sweet arm rest, the driving position can seriously kill you in long drives. While the Protege's seats are amazingly comfortable with it's multi-position seats..

So in my opinion, they are both great cars... just different animals

creakid1 · June 2003

"Can anyone tell what size wheels those are? Looks like 17" right? So this is probably the sport package and the normal versions will have different wheels and a chrome grill."

The spec said 225/45R18 on 7JJ:
http://www.axela.mazda.co.jp/spec.html

The Euro grill looks like sport package while the one in the Japanese website should be the normal version. Or maybe you're right, the normal version should add the chrome surround. I think the Euro one makes the nose look narrower & uglier like a PT Cruiser.

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