I also think pharmaceuticals should be regualted also. However some in our government are getting drug money and thus will not vote against the powerful establishment.
Banks aren't a neccessity don't cost me money and thus is a apples to oranges "straw man" arguement.
The reason why California's gas prices are so high is look at the taxes y'all pay per gallon. You will find your answer there.
Rocky
P.S. Texas, panhandle had very high gas prices about a year+ ago. We were paying more than californians at one point. Gas prices right now here in the Amarillo-Dumas Panhandle range from $2.03-$2.09 from what I've observed as of yesterday.
Today the very same station is now down to $1.98/gal. I agree that at $1.85 they were barely making anything. That's probably why they were at that price for only a day or two and making it up with inside sales of soda, snacks, etc.
A .20 to .25 swing in one day used to be unheard of here but in the last year has become fairly common. I don't think supply has anything to do with it. The ConocoPhillips refinery right across the river that supplies much of this area is chugging away.
Dayton, OH: Twelve days ago we went from $1.81 nominal price to $2.09. Then the price broke down quickly to $1.85 at many stations in areas, so the price "rose" to $2.19 last Friday approx. at most stations in area.
That broke by Sunday and was back down to $1.99 so Tuesday by noon most stations were at $2.25.
$.28, $.34, $.26. I have noticed when prices broke down in the area and the companies who do no price controlling some would say try to raise it and it doesn't stick, they start multiple raises becoming more aggressive and closer together. the price doesn't drop as far down each time and thre raises are aggressive jumps.
Trouble is I see the area Murphy stations didn't go to $2.25, they only went to $2.15 and $2.09, e.g. Guess they didn't go along with the fax/phone call.
"Banks aren't a neccessity don't cost me money....."
I'm not sure how one discusses economics against this mind set. :confuse:
I give up. You win, rock. I'll try to stop imposing facts as speedbumps against your diatribes in the future.
Getting back on topic - gas has been hovering right around the $1.98 to $2.02 range for unleaded in Cedar Park since Friday. I haven't seen the large swings reported elsewhere.
I give up. You win, rock. I'll try to stop imposing facts as speedbumps against your diatribes in the future.
I think it's best we don't discuss anything political because you and I obviously see the world much different. You are a capitalist and I'm a protectionist. We are like trying to put two magnets together.
Rocky
P.S. Wife bought $10 of gas for $2.03 here in Dumas a few hours ago at Valero.
I was up in Laurel, MD, and the cheapest place I saw was a Shell station; 87 octane was $2.029 per gallon. I ended up driving past my local Citgo twice yesterday. First time, 87 was $2.239, but the second time past it was down a bit to $2.159.
Gas prices are ALWAYS something that comes up at the chats lately. If you can find the time, stop in! We're not QUITE as topic driven in the chats, and we have a good time!
The Beast isn't the only roller coaster in the area at Cedar Point South (Kings Island).
The gas prices were $2.259 yesterday somewhat in unison. Now they're back down to $2.179 currently. Of course some stations are still holding at the $2.259 level. $1.959 on the base (Wright Patterson Air Force Base).
This is the interesting part I wanted to point out:
At $2.47, Oregon's average gasoline price is fifth highest in the nation. Hawaii has the highest average price at $2.87, followed by California and Washington at $2.52 and Nevada at $2.48.
Notice that CA, WA, NV, and OR are all in the top five highest prices.
See the pattern? (wait for it, wait for it....)
They are all states in the WESTERN REGION which always has higher gas prices, due the the NORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS IN THAT REGION.
Not due to a "group gouging" which is going on.
Google any regional gas prices chart over the last two decades, and the western region is ALWAYS higher. Normal Market forces.
Google this yourself folks, it's not hard to find:
The EIA has reported that prices are generally higher in the Western states, observing that production costs and refinery investment per barrel are higher in the West. In addition, Arizona is currently requiring two unique fuel formulations in the southern part of the state, which differ from gasoline sold in other areas. According to the American Petroleum Institute (API), the proliferation of fuel types reduces the flexibility of refiners and distributors to respond to local and regional demand, which can affect gasoline prices.
High gasoline prices in the West sprout from an intricate web of factors that range from a lack of refineries to weather to greater demand. Toss in an occasional mechanical problem at a refinery, and it's enough to turn the market on its ear.
"So much of it has to do with timing," says Denton Cinquegrana, the West Coast spot markets editor for the New Jersey-based Oil Price Information Service. "The Western region really is an island unto itself with only a few refineries and not much product coming from other areas.
"If a problem comes up in the supply chain, everything gets thrown off. Someone might want to say it's big oil companies getting more money but it's not that simple."
And this:
Gas prices in the Western states are generally more expensive than the rest of the country because geography keeps the entire region isolated.
The Gulf Coast states refine almost half of the nation's gasoline. But no pipelines cross the Rocky Mountains, so most gas must be refined in the West for the Western states.
I would not be pushing this issue if it were not true ladies and gents. The Western region of the country is unusual in regard to the refining and fuel situation, and those forces keep prices higher for the West. It's not gouging.
How come Housing prices are always so high in the Seattle area? Is that due to the "market forces" and "local conditions" or are those high prices due to some kinda conspiracy as well (Big Lumber)?
I wonder what sort of profit margin is considered 'acceptable' for home sellers in your neck of the woods?
So if the price of crude goes down and if the oil company's want to continue to charge the capped price then so be it. I think $2.00 gas is fair to the consumer and a cap should be implemented. If supply and demand becomes a problem then the government threatens to take it over because the oil cartel is only being greedy with a necessity. You can see the record profit margins to know that.
How did you come up with $2/gallon being a fair price? If by some miracle the price of oil went down to $15/barrel the market price for gasoline would probably be around $1/gallon. Your comment tells me that you'd have no problem with the parties involved still selling gas for $2/gallon. Interesting. The record profits achieved last year would be obliterated by this new scheme of yours. On the other hand lets say the price of oil went up to $70/barrel. The market price for gasoline would then be $3/gallon. The oil companies, refineries and gas stations would simply shutdown rather than take this kind of loss. So now the government would step in and nationalize these industries. News flash, we import 60% of our oil. Are we going to force Canada and Mexico to sell to us at prices well below market value? The only other option is to use tax dollars to make up the difference. That can't possibly make sense unless you believe the government's tax policies should encourage fuel consumption and that the wealthy should subsidize fuel cost's for the poor. If you believe the wealthy should subsidize the poor in this regard then why stop with fuel? Why not subsidize their auto insurance, maintenance and purchase costs also?
"...for Big Lumber. They are in cahoots with OWEC. (Organization of Wood Exporting Countries). I blame the Canadians...."
Hmmmmm.
Considering that Canada is also our largest source of imported oil, I'm beginning to smell a rat.....wonder what the odds are we can convince our current 'atrocious regime' to invade?
My point is tpe, is look at oil prices. They have dropped $20+ a barrel and many of us are paying well north of $2.00 a gallon. Some folks are in the $1.80's in gas prices. It doesn't add up to me and my conclusion is the oil company's are "pooling" togeather. The only way to break them is get government involved. Who else has a "stick" big enough to fight them ?????
I'm not claiming to have the perfect answer but I'd like to see some action from out government. The last regime sat back and did nothing and said nothing as most of us were paying well north of $3.00 a gallon. :mad:
My point is tpe, is look at oil prices. They have dropped $20+ a barrel and many of us are paying well north of $2.00 a gallon.
Yes the price of oil has dropped $20 from its peak and the national average price for gas has dropped about 80 cents from its peak. Are you saying that the price of gas should have dropped more? Right now the price of oil is around $57 and a gallon of gas costs $2.18. What if oil went down to $37, how much should gas cost? What if it went to $17, which it was not all that long ago?
The price of gas typically moves about 2-3 cents for every dollar change in the price of oil. The prices we are now paying at the pump reflect the $50 oil prices we had a few weeks ago. If oil stays at $57 you can expect gas prices to creep back up a little.
While I agree with the posters that have pointed out how western states traditionally have higher gas prices I do think they are currently a little out of whack. Not enough to support a conspiracy theory but an anomally none the less.
Yesterday morning I reported fuel prices were in the $1.99 ~ $2.07 range. Well on my way home last night there was a +$0.20 price change at the Shell, Mobils & BPs. The prices went from $2.05 ~ $2.07 @ 6:00am to $2.25 ~ $2.29 @ 6:40pm. One Speedway also made the same hike. Yet the Meijers, Jewel, Citgos and Sonic were still at the $2 point.
Guess someone at the other places order cheese on their Whopper, or super-sized their value meal.
On a side note, one bad thing I noticed with the drop in fuel prices is that more & more speed demons are out there. Was getting passed yesterday to/from work like I was standing still. Getting worse every day.
I was checking my spreadsheet and I paid $2.34 per gallon to fill up the end of January 2006. It was the same exact price two days ago here in San Diego. Cheapest gas today in the county is Costco at $2.25 per gallon. County wide average for regular is $2.50. The highest price recorded for today is $2.77. So you have a 52 cent range. This does not include the desert communities that are going to be at in the low $3 range.
Is it me or does it seem to be unethical that 1 business, "Mobile" can make a profit, yes "PROFIT", of $39,500,000.00 in 3 months?
That's Thirty Nine Million and Five Hundred Thousand Dollars in Profit in 3 months.
I see that someone posted that Mobile raised their price $.25 a gallon after the news reported their year end profit. Have they no shame?
In California Mobile is still charging $2.60 a gallon for regular unleaded 87-octane fuel. $2.70 for 89 Octane & $2.80 for 91 Octane.
It seems that all we that care about being ripped off at the pump can do is simple complain. I've previously suggested last summer when the price was $3.40 for 87 octane that we boycott the service station every Saturday until they stopped ripping us off and lowered their prices to a reasonable profit margin. That would be something under $1.50 a gallon. This might not seem like a lot to some people, but it would mean millions lost in interest just for one day. If we all just got together on this and either purchased our fuel the day before on Friday or the day after on Sunday and did it until they lowered their prices, then they would see that it is us, the people who can take control. But we won't do it and they know it. That is why they made $39,500,000.00 in profit in 3 months and will do it again and again and again until something is done to make them stop. I believe that my suggestion is one way of stopping them. I'm sure that there will be some derogatory remarks to this post and those who will say that my suggestion will not work. Well then come up with another reasonable solution and I will be glad to listen. But until such time then don’t put down what you can not reasonably give another solution to.
Additional info not generally found in the mass media:
The $39.5 Billion in net profit was on total revenues of $377.6 Billion (profit margin of 10.4%).
Total taxes paid by ExxonMobile in 2006: $100.6 Billion
btw - the net income of $39.5 Billion for all of 2006 included a special $0.41 Billion tax related benefit (this would be the reverse socialism that is occasionally mentioned in here). So, without that tax-related benefit, ExxonMobile WOULD have paid a nice even $101 Billion in taxes in 2006 instead of the paltry $100.6 Billion.
Think of that, almost half a billion dollars gifted to a source that certainly doesn't need nor deserve it. Think what that money could do (aside from several weeks of misguided war).
My conclusion is that some just can't stand to see the status quo/current regime bashed, and fixate on every post.
I'm not sure why everyone is so insistent that the oil industry is gouging us when it comes to prices. As if they get together and decide what the price of oil will be. That is determined by the traders on the commodities exchange (NYMEX). The only impact that oil producers can have is through controlling the supply. Keeping in mind that the oil market is global I don't think that Exxon/Mobil is in the position to have that great an impact on the global supply. Oil prices are currently high so it's a no-brainer that selling oil will result in high profits. No manufacturer is going to sell his product for less than market value, at least not if its a publicly traded company. If the market value of your home was $400k would you sell it for $300k because that seemed like a fairer profit? If so then I want to know where you live.
paid 2.29x same station was 2.37x about a week ago. x=9. saw an ad in the paper, 3k off msrp on a new prius. i guess lower gas prices are having an effect on hybrid sales.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I'm just quoting what the Southern California news has been reporting. If it is $39,500,000,000.00, thirty-nine billion, five-hundred thousand in profit then that's even worse than what I said in my previous post of 39,500, 000.00 thirty-nine million five-hundred thousand. And of course I said what was report that it was for the last quarter of 2006, as this is normally how businesses pay taxes, quarterly and not yearly as you have suggested. I think that you should try and get it straight, or just forget it and don’t worry so much as you obviously have no clue.
From the sounds of your post you seem very interested in the profit, taxes, etc., but what you failed to mention was several other factors. The tax credits, etc for example must also be in the billions if what you stated in your post is true.
I kind of doubt it, but I will give you the benefit of doubt since you seem to have so much time on your hands to go through all the trouble of even posting a web site. I did not check it out and do not plan on it. I do not need to read some corporate garbage placed on an Internet library to know that every time I fill up my tank that I'm being ripped off.
If it's from the market price or as I said in my post from the oil companies it doesn't really matter it's all the same, gouging on something that the American people need to use daily in their lives.
Please to the person who is trying to either confuse the issue by comparing the profit of a home to the profit the oil companies made, your way off. Or quit possible you just did not give it much thought prior to posting your ramblings.
Fuel is something that millions of people, businesses, etc use every day. A house is something that we all live in if we are fortunate enough to be able to afford one. The profit made from a 1-time sale of a house and the continuous every day profit that the oil companies make it like comparing apples and oranges. :surprise:
I still don't understand why here in Delaware 87 is $2.07, 93 is $2.45 at BP and 87 is $2.05 and 93 is$2.38? The difference here for 87 and 93 is between $0.33-$0.45. Is it demand for 93 here is more than any parts of the country?
Comments
Banks aren't a neccessity don't cost me money and thus is a apples to oranges "straw man" arguement.
The reason why California's gas prices are so high is look at the taxes y'all pay per gallon. You will find your answer there.
Rocky
P.S. Texas, panhandle had very high gas prices about a year+ ago. We were paying more than californians at one point. Gas prices right now here in the Amarillo-Dumas Panhandle range from $2.03-$2.09 from what I've observed as of yesterday.
A .20 to .25 swing in one day used to be unheard of here but in the last year has become fairly common. I don't think supply has anything to do with it. The ConocoPhillips refinery right across the river that supplies much of this area is chugging away.
Twelve days ago we went from $1.81 nominal price to $2.09. Then the price broke down quickly to $1.85 at many stations in areas, so the price "rose" to $2.19 last Friday approx. at most stations in area.
That broke by Sunday and was back down to $1.99 so Tuesday by noon most stations were at $2.25.
$.28, $.34, $.26. I have noticed when prices broke down in the area and the companies who do no price controlling some would say try to raise it and it doesn't stick, they start multiple raises becoming more aggressive and closer together. the price doesn't drop as far down each time and thre raises are aggressive jumps.
Trouble is I see the area Murphy stations didn't go to $2.25, they only went to $2.15 and $2.09, e.g.
Guess they didn't go along with the fax/phone call.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm not sure how one discusses economics against this mind set. :confuse:
I give up. You win, rock. I'll try to stop imposing facts as speedbumps against your diatribes in the future.
Getting back on topic - gas has been hovering right around the $1.98 to $2.02 range for unleaded in Cedar Park since Friday. I haven't seen the large swings reported elsewhere.
I think it's best we don't discuss anything political because you and I obviously see the world much different. You are a capitalist and I'm a protectionist. We are like trying to put two magnets together.
Rocky
P.S. Wife bought $10 of gas for $2.03 here in Dumas a few hours ago at Valero.
$1.87 in Lake Havasu City, AZ
$2.35 in Las Vegas (but a free Carl Jr.'s Famous Star burger with an 8 gallon purchase).
$4.29 at Halloran Springs, CA (about 10 miles south of Primm, NV).
The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule
The gas prices were $2.259 yesterday somewhat in unison. Now they're back down to $2.179 currently. Of course some stations are still holding at the $2.259 level. $1.959 on the base (Wright Patterson Air Force Base).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is the interesting part I wanted to point out:
At $2.47, Oregon's average gasoline price is fifth highest in the nation. Hawaii has the highest average price at $2.87, followed by California and Washington at $2.52 and Nevada at $2.48.
Notice that CA, WA, NV, and OR are all in the top five highest prices.
See the pattern? (wait for it, wait for it....)
They are all states in the WESTERN REGION which always has higher gas prices, due the the NORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS IN THAT REGION.
Not due to a "group gouging" which is going on.
Google any regional gas prices chart over the last two decades, and the western region is ALWAYS higher. Normal Market forces.
The EIA has reported that prices are generally higher in the Western states, observing that production costs and refinery investment per barrel are higher in the West. In addition, Arizona is currently requiring two unique fuel formulations in the southern part of the state, which differ from gasoline sold in other areas. According to the American Petroleum Institute (API), the proliferation of fuel types reduces the flexibility of refiners and distributors to respond to local and regional demand, which can affect gasoline prices.
And more:
Western region gas prices always higher
High gasoline prices in the West sprout from an intricate web of factors that range from a lack of refineries to weather to greater demand. Toss in an occasional mechanical problem at a refinery, and it's enough to turn the market on its ear.
"So much of it has to do with timing," says Denton Cinquegrana, the West Coast spot markets editor for the New Jersey-based Oil Price Information Service. "The Western region really is an island unto itself with only a few refineries and not much product coming from other areas.
"If a problem comes up in the supply chain, everything gets thrown off. Someone might want to say it's big oil companies getting more money but it's not that simple."
And this:
Gas prices in the Western states are generally more expensive than the rest of the country because geography keeps the entire region isolated.
The Gulf Coast states refine almost half of the nation's gasoline. But no pipelines cross the Rocky Mountains, so most gas must be refined in the West for the Western states.
I would not be pushing this issue if it were not true ladies and gents. The Western region of the country is unusual in regard to the refining and fuel situation, and those forces keep prices higher for the West. It's not gouging.
There's never any numbers.
PS Phoenix lowest price is $2.13 today
How come Housing prices are always so high in the Seattle area? Is that due to the "market forces" and "local conditions" or are those high prices due to some kinda conspiracy as well (Big Lumber)?
I wonder what sort of profit margin is considered 'acceptable' for home sellers in your neck of the woods?
Filled up this morning at the usual place, Meijers, for $1.99. The Sonic was $1.99 as well, with Speedway @ $2.01.
Other stations were running $2.10 ~ $2.25 for regular. Really wierd spread since most of the stations are near each other.
Gas City has E85 for $1.89, regular for $2.19, diesel $2.79
How did you come up with $2/gallon being a fair price? If by some miracle the price of oil went down to $15/barrel the market price for gasoline would probably be around $1/gallon. Your comment tells me that you'd have no problem with the parties involved still selling gas for $2/gallon. Interesting. The record profits achieved last year would be obliterated by this new scheme of yours. On the other hand lets say the price of oil went up to $70/barrel. The market price for gasoline would then be $3/gallon. The oil companies, refineries and gas stations would simply shutdown rather than take this kind of loss. So now the government would step in and nationalize these industries. News flash, we import 60% of our oil. Are we going to force Canada and Mexico to sell to us at prices well below market value? The only other option is to use tax dollars to make up the difference. That can't possibly make sense unless you believe the government's tax policies should encourage fuel consumption and that the wealthy should subsidize fuel cost's for the poor. If you believe the wealthy should subsidize the poor in this regard then why stop with fuel? Why not subsidize their auto insurance, maintenance and purchase costs also?
Hmmmmm.
Considering that Canada is also our largest source of imported oil, I'm beginning to smell a rat.....wonder what the odds are we can convince our current 'atrocious regime' to invade?
LOL...I guess given your location...
Down another 2 cents here
I'm not claiming to have the perfect answer but I'd like to see some action from out government. The last regime sat back and did nothing and said nothing as most of us were paying well north of $3.00 a gallon. :mad:
Rocky
Yes the price of oil has dropped $20 from its peak and the national average price for gas has dropped about 80 cents from its peak. Are you saying that the price of gas should have dropped more? Right now the price of oil is around $57 and a gallon of gas costs $2.18. What if oil went down to $37, how much should gas cost? What if it went to $17, which it was not all that long ago?
The price of gas typically moves about 2-3 cents for every dollar change in the price of oil. The prices we are now paying at the pump reflect the $50 oil prices we had a few weeks ago. If oil stays at $57 you can expect gas prices to creep back up a little.
While I agree with the posters that have pointed out how western states traditionally have higher gas prices I do think they are currently a little out of whack. Not enough to support a conspiracy theory but an anomally none the less.
Rocky
Guess someone at the other places order cheese on their Whopper, or super-sized their value meal.
On a side note, one bad thing I noticed with the drop in fuel prices is that more & more speed demons are out there. Was getting passed yesterday to/from work like I was standing still. Getting worse every day.
87 - $1.999 - down 6
89 - $2.099 - down 6
91 - $2.159 - down 6
93 - $2.199 - down 6
diesel - $2.299 - unchanged for 2 weeks
Even Mt. Arlington Exxon (the "high-priced spread") is down to $2.079 for 87.
kcram - Pickups Host
That's Thirty Nine Million and Five Hundred Thousand Dollars in Profit in 3 months.
I see that someone posted that Mobile raised their price $.25 a gallon after the news reported their year end profit. Have they no shame?
In California Mobile is still charging $2.60 a gallon for regular unleaded 87-octane fuel. $2.70 for 89 Octane & $2.80 for 91 Octane.
It seems that all we that care about being ripped off at the pump can do is simple complain. I've previously suggested last summer when the price was $3.40 for 87 octane that we boycott the service station every Saturday until they stopped ripping us off and lowered their prices to a reasonable profit margin. That would be something under $1.50 a gallon. This might not seem like a lot to some people, but it would mean millions lost in interest just for one day. If we all just got together on this and either purchased our fuel the day before on Friday or the day after on Sunday and did it until they lowered their prices, then they would see that it is us, the people who can take control. But we won't do it and they know it. That is why they made $39,500,000.00 in profit in 3 months and will do it again and again and again until something is done to make them stop. I believe that my suggestion is one way of stopping them. I'm sure that there will be some derogatory remarks to this post and those who will say that my suggestion will not work. Well then come up with another reasonable solution and I will be glad to listen. But until such time then don’t put down what you can not reasonably give another solution to.
And it's 39.5 BILLION with a "B".
Get it straight. :shades:
Get it straight."
Additional info not generally found in the mass media:
The $39.5 Billion in net profit was on total revenues of $377.6 Billion (profit margin of 10.4%).
Total taxes paid by ExxonMobile in 2006: $100.6 Billion
btw - the net income of $39.5 Billion for all of 2006 included a special $0.41 Billion tax related benefit (this would be the reverse socialism that is occasionally mentioned in here). So, without that tax-related benefit, ExxonMobile WOULD have paid a nice even $101 Billion in taxes in 2006 instead of the paltry $100.6 Billion.
http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/11/115/115024/items/229203/xom_020107rel- ease.pdf
Draw your own conclusions.
My conclusion is that some just can't stand to see the status quo/current regime bashed, and fixate on every post.
Right. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
saw an ad in the paper, 3k off msrp on a new prius.
i guess lower gas prices are having an effect on hybrid sales.
From the sounds of your post you seem very interested in the profit, taxes, etc., but what you failed to mention was several other factors. The tax credits, etc for example must also be in the billions if what you stated in your post is true.
I kind of doubt it, but I will give you the benefit of doubt since you seem to have so much time on your hands to go through all the trouble of even posting a web site. I did not check it out and do not plan on it. I do not need to read some corporate garbage placed on an Internet library to know that every time I fill up my tank that I'm being ripped off.
If it's from the market price or as I said in my post from the oil companies it doesn't really matter it's all the same, gouging on something that the American people need to use daily in their lives.
Please to the person who is trying to either confuse the issue by comparing the profit of a home to the profit the oil companies made, your way off. Or quit possible you just did not give it much thought prior to posting your ramblings.
Fuel is something that millions of people, businesses, etc use every day. A house is something that we all live in if we are fortunate enough to be able to afford one. The profit made from a 1-time sale of a house and the continuous every day profit that the oil companies make it like comparing apples and oranges. :surprise:
Is it demand for 93 here is more than any parts of the country?
Gas is still really cheap right now. Hope it stays that way. We're "averaging" about $1.91 for 87 in W. Ga. $2.21 for 93 octane.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Must have been a big supply increase or demand decrease.
I used 3.5 gallons last week, woo hoo.
Gas still frozen at $2.19 as well