New S40/V50

dafohosmen · December 2003

I have spoken to two dealers that said the arrival time for the S40 is late March. Pending a test drive, I plan to buy one and am eagerly awaiting their arrival. They are priced better than any other entry-level luxury sport sedan and have specs better than almost all competitors. The only close competitor is the BMW 330, but that is about 10K more to buy. Better low end torque numbers and a beautiful interior design will make this a tough competitor from an unlikely source.

creakid1 · December 2003

"How does your brother find the sport seat comfort?"

He loved it, oh yeah! He, 5'11.5", said it's much more comfortable than the non-sport seat. He think it's worth every $1100 penny despite that he prefers the std 4-spoke steering wheel over the 3-spoke sport design that doesn't allow him to hook his thumbs over the "4 & 8 o'clock" spokes. His '02's lack of cupholder-blocking center armrest means he can depend on the sport seat's side bolsters as elbow rests when not wearing thick jacket in Chicago. But then he's not a picky person, so he didn't even complain about the 17" wheels' harsher ride.

"This is a hard one because the 325 Discussion Group includes so many issues with the seat, mostly because there is no lumbar support on the 325 but I don't know if these Folks are the exception or the norm as so many people drive the 325."

My brief sampling of the 325 does reveal a somewhat weak lumbar, although not as bad as my '93 Camry SE, & my '90 Mazda Protege LX w/o lumbar adjustment actually provides sufficient lumbar for long drives.

Since your back is so important, 1st of all save your $ & order from the parts dept a sport seat that hopefully includes the 4-way power lumbar. The factory premium package also includes the memory power seats, which is $995 as a stand-alone option. Leather is about $1400. Heated front seats is $500, & of course the folding rear seat is another $500, so is the $500 metallic paint or the $500 wood trim. My brother avoided all of them & got the AWD feature instead. I don't like the AWD in California, especially w/ the larger turning circle. Yes, you should be able to chip out $1500-2000 for one non-leather manual sport seat from the parts department.

Maybe the Canadian 325i allows the lumbar option, so have some north-of-the-border family member swap for you, either the driver seat or the entire car. ;-) Oversea-built Canadian cars are heavily taxed when re-registered in the U.S.!

creakid1 · December 2003

"about that BMW 6-cyl
The S40 T5 will have about 40 more hp and 30 more ft/lbs torque even with one less cylinder."

There's nothing like a normally aspirated(read direct throttle response) inline 6-cyl. Even the upcoming new Lexus IS won't have it anymore.

Get a Golf 4-cyl turbo & a chip also gives you gobs of output.

jchan2 · December 2003

Closest competitor might be low end versions of the cross-town rival Saab 9-3, and for the V50, upper end models (Aero or loaded up Linear) of the 9-2X.

dafohosmen · December 2003

Why would you say the closest competitor would be the low end versions of the Saab? If you look at the numbers and features, the obvious competitor are the upper end Arc and Aero models of Saab with Volvo offering a high-pressure turbo option. I believe that even without the big turbo the volvo still makes equivalent torque and hp numbers. Also the costs will be about 5K less I believe.

jchan2 · December 2003

was by price, the 9-3 Linear is a competitor to the S40, whereas the 9-3 Arc and Aero are more expensive than even the loaded T5 AWD S40.

dafohosmen · December 2003

Exactly. That is why I think this will be quite a popular vehicle if the specs equate to a great driving exprience. If it is going to be possible to get a T5 AWD S40 6-Speed for 30K, that could be trouble for BMW and all others. The specs line up quite nicely with the 330xi. I know people will say you can just never compare to a BMW, and obviously a volvo doesnt offer the 'status' of a bimmer, but if you are looking for the best driving experience for trhe money in this segment than this could be it.

jchan2 · December 2003

BMW better watch out- the S40 T5 is out to get the 330Xi.

creakid1 · December 2003

BMW better watch out- the 2.3 Mazda 3S is out to get the Canadian 2.2 320i? ;-)

jchan2 · December 2003

better performance, lower price. Who loses? BMW.

creakid1 · December 2003

Volvo better watch out- the less-costly "up to 240-hp and AWD" Mazdaspeed3 is out to get the S40 T5(or 330xi or 9-2/WRX).

zaimon "Mazdaspeed3" Dec 30, 2003 1:09pm

frenchy2002 · December 2003

The buyers of the S40 and BMW 3 series are different from the buyers of the Mazda 3 and the 9-2/Subaru WRX. They are older, have more money, want a car with more status and luxury.

qbrozen · January 2004

There's nothing like a normally aspirated(read direct throttle response) inline 6-cyl.

ah, yes, the old standard warcry of bimmer owners (I swear that must be in the owner's manual or at least chanted at bimmer owner meetings). I guess you gotta own one to understand because I sure don't. I guess maybe if cars only went up to 20 mph and the first 2 seconds from every stoplight was all that mattered, then maybe I'd understand. but since my turbo-5 has more passing power, faster 0-60, faster 1/4 mile, etc., I'm quite happy not having a bimmer straight-6. Well, ok, an M5 would be quite pleasing, but, at that price, we are well out of Volvo territory.

jchan2 · January 2004

If another car company can give the same driving experience for less, than why bother to buy the BMW? The Inline 6 thing is an excuse. I'm happy with a V6, I5, turbocharged I4 or even a high winding I4 like the one in the TSX.

creakid1 · January 2004

Normally aspirated V6, 5-cyl or a good 4-cyl would be find, too.

But what's really wrong is how those turbo/Kompressor driving characteristics made my cornering clumsy, as I can't dial in the exact amount of power at the exact time.

Only when racing uphill at high altitude do you find normally aspirated engines laughable. ;-)

jchan2 · January 2004

I mean the Saab 9-3, which is a pretty nice car though not exactly BMW 330i material.

frenchy2002 · January 2004

If you are interested, you can build your own virtual new Volvo S40 on the Swedish Volvo website.

qbrozen · January 2004

point taken.

i'm glad it didn't turn into yet another BMW comparison here on Edmunds.

I do have to say, though, you get used to whatever car you drive all the time. If it has a turbo, you just get used to where your foot has to be at what time. Its just a bit more sensitive than NA.

cotmc · January 2004

The new February edition of Car and Driver magazine has a favorable preview article on the new S40. They mention the exterior is "a ringer for a stubbier S60", and they complemented the interior, stating it had "top-level fit and finish and high-quality materials." The reviewer also stated the T5 model exhibited no noticeable turbo lag, and little torque steer was evident. I'm personally not too thrilled that some of this model's development was shared with Ford and Mazda. Neither one of those manufacturers has exhibited a great quality record with new model introductions in recent years, but I'll keep an open mind.

According to the article, the new S40 models will be available this spring only with auto transmission. Stick shift and all-wheel drive models won't be available until summer, as 2005 models.

Overall, a very positive preview of the new S40.

creakid1 · January 2004

"I'm personally not too thrilled that some of this model's development was shared with Ford and Mazda. Neither one of those manufacturers has exhibited a great quality record with new model introductions in recent years, but I'll keep an open mind."

Excuse me, Mazda? The Volvo's reliability is the reason keeping so many of us at Mazda3 drooling over Volvo's charcoal air purifier & available stability system in North America.

First-year Mazdas built in Japan have been so reliable that the Miata is the world's most reliable sports car, & my first-year '90 Protege LX is still running trouble-free today at 190k mi.

In this C-1 project, Mazda is supposed to be helping both Ford & Volvo this time for the building methods!

& I'm thrilled that this Volvo is based on the Euro Ford's world-class suspension & steering so it is such a pleasure to drive that no other Volvo has ever achieved.

creakid1 · January 2004

"I do have to say, though, you get used to whatever car you drive all the time. If it has a turbo, you just get used to where your foot has to be at what time. Its just a bit more sensitive than NA."

It's actually the opposite of sensitive. The delay response is clumsy. For example, when stucked & stopping in traffic on the fwy, I tried to change lane to the right where cars are moving freely, I floored the gas as the I find an opening, but the car could only crawl so dangerously slow prior to the turbo kick-in that I got hunked at. Imagine enduring this kind of #@%# in the most expensive car we got.

Today's low-pressure turbos don't got much lag, but the soft throttle response still annoys. & to "get used to where your foot has to be at what time" still won't really work, as you step on it in mid corner, the car responds w/ slight delay, so you won't know when to back off, & then the thrust becomes a little too strong, then that's when you back off, then you might back off a little too much...

qbrozen · January 2004

you must have forgotten i drive a '98 T5. Very high boost in this car. I know exactly what its like. It does, in fact, just take getting used to. I am used to stepping on the gas BEFORE I want it to go somewhere quickly, not exactly when I want it to go. I also know where in the pedal travel the tranny will downshift and when the boost will come to full boil. I can also get alot of help from listening to the engine, turbo, and tranny.

My T5 is also the most expensive car I've ever owned.

And when I said sensitive, I should have been clearer. I meant that in the sense that it is sensitive to where your foot is in pedal travel, not that it jumps when you touch it. Its like you said, its calm and even slow one moment and a raging beast the next. That's what I meant by sensitive. but I've adapted and even grown to appreciate the extra attention and thinking it takes to drive it.

frenchy2002 · January 2004

I was checking out on the US Volvo website the various equipments available for the new S40 and could not find the XM or Sirius satellite radio. Is it not available or did I miss it?

grimm01 · January 2004

The new S40 pricing is available on the Volvo website. Looks like the base T5 starts @ $27K+ with destination.

qbrozen · January 2004

Yup. Its looking like its going to be too expensive for my taste. The T5 I'd be looking for comes out to $34,5K. For a grand more, I'd get an Acura TL instead and not suffer the harsh depreciation of the Volvo.

Seems alot of folks are disappointed in the S40 pricing. The anticipation was for a loaded up model coming in at right around $30K. Oh well. Maybe discounts will be available much sooner than I originally thought.

volvomax · January 2004

Satellite radio is not available on any Volvo.\

As for pricing, the Japanese were never the target for the S40. Audi and BMW were.
True, if you go nuts the T5 will be close to the mid 30's, with judicious ordering its 31-32k.
With the same equipment as the current S40 its @30k.
The proof as to whether the car is worht it is in the driving, drive the car first then compare.

frenchy2002 · January 2004

Why doesn't Volvo offer satellite radio? As a luxury car maker, it is business decision which is hard to comprehend. Any hope they will offer that in 2005?

stevenh7 · January 2004

Can someone give me the website with the S40 pricing? I went to volvocars.com and cannot find anything other than the cool intro and the free car info.

stevenh7 · January 2004

Found the pricing.

sross · January 2004

How much do you think the high price is due to the fall of the dollar against the Euro? Is that something that could change as exchange rates change?

qbrozen · January 2004

sorry, but it seems to me like EVERY car company says they are shooting for the german manufacturers. Its pretty easy to claim yours is a bargain when you put it up against the most expensive cars out there. The Japanese manufacturers get the lion's share of sedan sales for a reason. This is who every manufacturer is really trying to take sales from, but they just don't want to admit it.

volvomax · January 2004

Not at all, the [non-permissible content removed] cars skimp on alot of engineering, steel thickness plastic quality, paint thickness it does add up.
Plus their amoritization costs are lower. Honda and Toyota stamp put alot of Accords and Camrys, this pays for your platform costs on Lexus and Acura. Volvo, BMW and M-B, even Audi don't have this built in advantage.
Until Volvo's are thinly disguised Fords this won't change.

bamacar · January 2004

I agree with you. Other automakers may see some of the European designs as targets for appearance and engineering, but do you think Toyota, Honda, GM, or Ford fear the European competition. No way- they fear each other and any of the other Japanese automakers. They fear the Koreans more than the Europeans. No one is convinced that Europe is likely to make cars with quality and reliability that in any way approaches the design engineering. The European designs are easy prey; the Japanese and Koreans are the supreme predators.

creakid1 · January 2004

& her excuses are passive safety & the comfortable chairs.

I agree on the latter, as the front edge of the Lexus IS300's driver-seat cushion doesn't support my thigh very well, & the BMW 3-series requires the sport seats in order to do so, but I don't want the lowered sport suspension that comes w/ them.

Aftermarket seats, like the Monaco, may solve the problem, but what are you gonna do w/ the built-in side air bags in the IS300's OEM front seats?

waynetam · January 2004

I know the Volvo S40 and the Subaru WRX Sti are in two completely different leagues but I want to know for day to day driving is it better to choose the S40 for its low rpm torque (236 lb/ft at just 1500 rpm) over Sti's 300 lb/ft which doesn't happen until 4000 rpm? I drive a chipped A4 1.8t which generates about 200 lb/ft at 1950 rpm and I still found myself occasionally caught at under 1950 rpm where I didn't have any power for exiting a turn.

revdrluv · January 2004

How would you "find" yourself caught at under 1950 rpms? Ummm... that is what downshifting is for, you can't fault the car for that.

creakid1 · January 2004

to exit a turn.

waynetam · January 2004

When I'm making a turn slowly in 2nd gear (dropped from 3rd to 2nd right before the turn) the rpm could fall below 1950 or so....turbo doesn't kick in until that so I would be caught for a moment without any power...

qbrozen · January 2004

then drop to 1st gear or take the turn faster.

sross · January 2004

If you find the A4, which has a low-pressure turbo that kicks in at lower RPMs (unless chipping totally changed this), still too peaky for you, I would think there's no way you should consider the Subaru, whose turbo kicks in at even higher RPMs.

Obviously, in day-to-day driving, you're going to be a lot happier with more horsepower at low RPMs, unless you love shifing or you're spending most of your time on the freeway.

The cars are different leagues, so it's really up to you. Are you a happy to sacrifice ride comfort and interior styling for maximal handling and engagement, or would you trade off some sportiness for a more comfortable ride in a nicer environment? Are you under 35 or over 35?

waynetam · January 2004

I'm 31 and as a professional I really don't want to drive a boy racer Sti to work. I really like the S40 with the sport package exterior body kit though after adding AWD and all the options I want the price will be even more than a Sti. I guess if Volvo drops S60R's engine into the S40 and make most of the options standard it then would be the perfect car for me and I'll no longer consider Sti!

creakid1 · January 2004

Take the low pressure S40 T5 & that won't be pain in the butt as much.

midnightblack · January 2004

Can't seem to find the price of the AWD option on the microsite. Is it reasonable to assume that it would cost the same as the difference in price between the S60 2.5T and the S60 2.5T AWD, i.e. about $1800?

jchan2 · January 2004

the difference might be a little less. Think around $1500, as the car itself is a little cheaper so offering it at the same price as the S60 would actually be making it more expensive because the $1800 on a $27,000 Volvo S40 will make up a greater percentage of the total MSRP whereas $1800 on a $32,500 Volvo S60 will make up a smaller percentage of the total MSRP. So, expect it to cost just a little less. (think $1500 or $1495 or something around those numbers)

qbrozen · January 2004

I wouldn't bet on it being less. The price of the Navigation doesn't change depending on the car.

volvomax · January 2004

isn't available and won't be till the end of summer. Bet on the same price difference as an S60.

thesle2 · January 2004

The cars platforms are the same and the M3s has bigger interior measurements only the trunk is larger on the S40. Ten more hp but a smaller eng on the S40 so why pay $$$$ more for the S40?

creakid1 · January 2004

charcoal/pollen ventilation filter & stability program, plus quieter interior & a possibly more comfortable longer front-seat cushion & relaxing ride?

midnightblack · January 2004

I had a chance to check out both the S40 and V50 at the Montreal Auto Show yesterday. Im completely taken with the S40 what a stunning vehicle this is in person, inside and out. The photos dont do the car justice. I wasnt crazy about the V50s styling, but I have a strong bias towards sedans over wagons generally.

The Volvo reps I talked to both said that the S40 T5 w/AWD would be available in July at a price of $42,000 Canadian. If this is true, then the S40 is an easy choice for my next car! I cant wait to trade in my WRX for one!

Im including some pics I took at the show here:
S40 T5

V50 2.4i

Additional S40 Pictures:
Front Right
Interior, Front
Interior, Rear
Side Mirror
Tail Light
Wheel

Additional V50 Pictures:
Front
Rear

qbrozen · January 2004

nice pics!
thanks.

New S40/V50

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