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A line of duallies formed behind me at the station with $2.999 Diesel. I bet they were jealous of my 16 gallon fill up.
The problem is one of the best, if not the best, field of low-sulfur coal deposits in Utah was made off-limits by the Clinton Administration.
There is Gas-to-Liquids (GTL) technology out there too. Natural Gas can be turned into very high-quality ULS diesel fairly efficiently. Capitalization of facilities is the only thing really holding GTL production back now. ANWR is primarily a gas resource, so thank our current President for opening it up !
I can't imagine that this is helping convience many to buy a Jeep CRD. But then again they are selling HEMI's in everything they can shove this gas eater engine into.
If reason enters into this high price for diesel fuel, then the truckers ought to be out there getting uncle sam to step in and help lower the price. If the price of diesel stays high for to much longer then we are sure to see inflation in a big wave hit the USA. Name anything that is not dependant in some way on diesel being involved in it's transportation?
Actually, the Utah coal field has not been opened by President Bush. Perhaps that will be his swan song in 2007. But ANWR is on now.
Are there any coal to diesel fuel plants actually under construction or operating? Jimmy Carter had a coal to gas plant built many years ago in North Dakota. I know it can be done. Seems like the high price of crude oil (and natural gas) ought to be driving some innovation.
It seems like the coal companies would be building some coal to diesel plants to get a new market for their product. A lot of trucks (and my jeep) could really use this fuel right now. I'm getting to wonder if the gas burning six would have been a better choice, but I do like sound of the thing as it rumbles down the road.
If reason enters into this high price for diesel fuel, then the truckers ought to be out there getting uncle sam to step in and help lower the price. If the price of diesel stays high for to much longer then we are sure to see inflation in a big wave hit the USA. Name anything that is not dependant in some way on diesel being involved in it's transportation?
Seems like this would be a chance for the government to do something smart if they took some action to provide some predicitability in supply and price of diesel. Another source is needed to provide true competition. That's another reason I like this coal thing. Somebody ought to be giving the oil companies true competition for the customers.
tidester, host
In my neck of the woods (South Africa) we have been using fuel manufactured from coal for the past 35 years. The technology is very mature in South Africa and most people prefer to use this kind of diesel in their vehicles.
My fuel consumption go as low as 11.5 km/l and except if the vehicle is started on a very cold morning (very cold for us is between 1 and 5 degrees Celcius) there is no visible smoke.
My advice therefore is if you can convince a company to start manufacturing Diesel from coal, you should do so and also support such a product.
You can go here if you want to learn more about fuel from coal.
Diesel: $ 3.709/gal
Unld: $ 2.369/gal
-----------------------
Diff: $ 1.34/gal
Insult to injury:
Unleaded in Omaha, NE: $2.189/gal (my sister called to rub it in.)
My kudos to South Africa in this field.
In the U.S., diesel fuel borders on being garbage. It is still considered to be an industrial fuel so quality is not a top priority. The oil companies charge the consumer top dollar for garbage. In a number of the posts, there are a small but increasing number of EGR failures. I attribute this to the poor quality of the fuel sold in the U.S. In europe they have EGR failures too, but not to the extent we see here.
Technology and need will eventually see the coal taken. There's no doubt about that. How and when is the only question. Underground gassification of coal, which then allows above-ground "Gas-to-Liquids" conversion, is beginning to see practice.
To be honest, I do feel much better knowing we have the fossil fuels here in the ground. This deters another superpower or stray international alliance from thinking the U.S. and our good strategic partners can be brought to our knees easily and without a good fight. Heck, we might even rescue France again, forgiving as we are.
If industry used a little common sense, strip mining and reclamation of the land could be done with minimal impact on the environment.
I do have a problem with coal. It is the same problem I have with petroleum. We are still putting carbon of the past back into the air now and we are not recycling enough of the carbon. I feel more must be done to extract fuel from biomass and waste than is done now.
We have several topics over in News and Views more suited to the fuel talk. Pick one or more:
Hybrids & Diesels: Deals or Duds?
Diesels in the News
Biodiesel vehicles
Again, this discussion is about the Liberty and people finding their way in here expect to read about the Jeep, so let's try to humor them and stay topical.
Steve, Host
Just thought I'd offer that regular unleaded here in Phoenix is still up around $2.75/gal. Diesel is floating between $2.93 and $3.30.
And it's really insulting that we're paying $0.60 more per gallon for unleaded......
There has been talk of a very few EGR failures and I feel we are only hearing about the <1% that break. All the happy owners are just too busy driving to complain. Even if it becomes a big problem, this rig as a whole is an unbelieveable value and the EGR valve is such a small, small component of the overall system.
I hear VW just eliminated the diesel Toureg in the U.S. after just introducing it. I hope Jeep does not follow suit.
Although if I were interested in the Liberty diesel and came in here to read about the owner's experiences and saw the posted prices of a gallon of diesel, I'd run to the Jeep Liberty discussion and not look back!
Steve, Host
This Libery CRD is in a prime position to take advantage of this alternative fuel. Any percentage I can buy from american producers I will do it.
I have 7K miles on my 2005 Liberty CRD with automatic and 4wd and am getting on average 21 mpg (mostly highway). Is this typical?? Also, I just changed oil in it. I pulled about 4 quarts of dark, carbonized oil. It takes about 6 quarts is this also typical is 4 quarts typical?? Would you expect to use ~ 2 quarts of oil in 7K miles?? Let me know your thoughts. I am ready to take it into dealer but would like feedback from the forum before I go in and the dealer and he tells me oh that's normal MPG and oil usage. Thanks, Dave
Your mileage sounds very similar to mine. I suppose I could get better if I had a lighter foot but don't want to get run over!
Mine used a quart of oil in the first 1,200 miles but has used no more since. If you only had 4 quarts when you drained it you were 2.4 quarts low. I'd suggest checking it from time to time.
As to your fuel economy, that is low to me, but I do not know how fast you drive on the highway or if you have to contend with many hills, stop and go traffic, etc. Also, being two quarts down does not help either. What about the tire pressure? Try running the tires at 36 psi. There is little degradation in the ride, but significantly improved handling and a little boost in fuel economy. What RPM's are indicated at cruising speed on the tachometer? Have inadvertently locked out O/D?
Yep...
Likely one of those things to wait until it's out of warranty. Yet, I think I could restrain my lead-foot enough and just reap the fuel mileage benefits (maybe I could). That modification might put Libby CRD on par acceleration-wise with the 318 C.I.D. early model Grand Cherokees. WOW ! Like a defiled ape !
As far as oil quality, I am concerned about all the talk the factory oil in the '05s is not adequate. I have two free oil changes coming from the dealer, should I use them or do my own with Shell 5W-40 synthetic? Please chime in folks...
Also, we need to be more concerned with engine lubrication as ULSD comes online. The making of ULSD fuel removes the sulfer and in the process removes alot of the lubricating properties as well. This is where all the talk of a CI-4 rated oil comes in with supposed better lubrication properties. Please chime in again folks to affirm or correct this...
One thing for certain, a small blend of bio-diesel such as B2 or B5 will help restore the engine lubrication that is removed from the ULSD process. Too bad the product is so new that It's hardly available to the public yet. This will change in the next few years.
1. Who really cares about the mpg that Consumer Reports files??? If you own one of these fine machines, then you know that your getting at least 20 mpg.
2. The ERG thing is not a major concern to me. I have driven many diesel engines throughout my lifespan and know that usually diesels are much better built and last much longer. I believe that Chrysler Dailmer would fix the thing if it continues to have problems. Who knows, they may be working on a more permanent fix for those of you having problems?
3. The turbo cool down is a wise thing to do. I have personally seen what damage is done from not cooling down a turbo. It is almost cheaper to replace the engine. (Firefighters love to break these things!)
4. Please keep to the topic of Liberty CRD. I don't care what kind of oil, tires, or diesel you put on/in your CRD. If I did, I wouldn't come to this forum.
Finally, continue to put in your comments about the CRD. Thanks for posting.
The T :shades:
Drink or drive... nowdays driving is more expensive.
Another nice feature about the Liberty: my grandson wants to grab it because it looks like his own toys :surprise:
One of the things that I have found is that when most oil companies put out the specs for their oils, the vast majority do not put the Noack vaporization test (ASTM D-5800) data on their websites. I have called Mobil and they do not have that data available or will not make it available.
The lubrication issue you speak of with ULSD is not related to the engine oil, but to the fuel. The injection system uses the fuel and the engine oil to lubricate the high pressure pump. The addition of biodiesel to the fuel side is helpful. Until B2 or B5 is mandated and/or more readily available, I will put some additives in the fuel to assist with fuel pump lubrication from the fuel side. When I am near a station that sells biodiesel, I will blend in enough for B5 - B15 (5%/gallon). The nearest station is 28 miles from my home. I am considering purchasing a five gallon container to hold B100 and then adding a gallon with each fill up to make B5.
Some time ago you mentioned that oil was coating the inside of the intercooler system. I wonder if the oil is vaporizing too much (cannot take the heat) and doing this. I wonder if the oil vaporization and our lousy fuel here in the U.S. is contributing to EGR problems?
The most common questions and concerns for CRD owners are-
1. Which oil to use and where to get it.
2. What type and size tires are best to replace the very poor performing Wrangler ST.
3. How to solve problems such as egr and transmission issues.
4. Where to obtain best diesel, to use or not to use biodiesel and additives.
5. Which lift kit is best
6. What mpg are you obtaining and techniques for increasing.
7. Which oil filter and where to purchase. Where to buy parts.
Every CRD forum I've visited has at least these topics in common.
What do you want to discuss?
Heck, tires, oil and fuel are common to nearly every discussion of all models A to Z!
People who are considering buying one visit these forums and like to get feedback from owners.
Please keep to the topic of Liberty CRD.
Thanks for your assistance but the hosts do a pretty good job of determining what is on-topic and what is off-topic.
tidester, host
One day last week I was heading to work, got into my jeep, and started my lovely sounding CRD. What I'm about to tell you next will be disturbing so cover your eyes if it should get a little creepy. I shifted into drive and moved about 200ft and what seemed to me as if the engine seized. I have only heard of how a engine seized but I'll tell you this, it sure felt like it. I stepped out of the jeep and took a flashlight underneath to see what I could discover. My heart and mouth just sank when I had the light shine onto the oil filter. Oil was surrounding the rim of the filter and the area around it. I immediately jumped up popped the hood and checked my oil level. Keep in mind that I check my fluids every time I fuel up. I pulled out my oil dip stick to find it to be bone dry except at the tip. I called the dealer and they sent a flatbed tow truck out. As I sat in the waiting room, the mechanic called me out and told me that he found oil in my intake hoses and he believes that I blew a seal in my turbo. I detested that the oil in the hoses are normal since the CRD is Closed Crankcase Ventilation system. The mechanic responded by saying that NO the intake hoses should be clean. Right then and there I knew what I was getting myself into. I have researched this vehicle before it even came to the dealer and then for a mechanic to tell me that the CRD is NOT a CCV system? I sat at the dealer for a few more hours before a service rep. escorted me to his desk and ask me do I need to use the phone so I can get a ride. I looked at him and blurred out, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? That is another story in itself. He proceeded to tell me that they can't get a hold of the Star System Techs and that the jeep would have to stay overnight. The next day they told me that the seal in the turbo is not the problem but a faulty oil separator valve which is letting too much oil into the intake system. I asked him what about the oil around my filter and he could not give me a straight answer. The rep wanted me to come and pick up my jeep until the part arrived and since they topped off the jeep with oil, wanted me to drive it to see the amount of oil consumption. I was furious after that comment as I told them to keep it. I am not going to be driving around a vehicle that consumes oil until the engine is damn near empty of oil and I know that there is a fail safe but still. Also I brought in the jeep a month ago for them to check the oil separator valve because I saw dried up oil around the area. Their answer to me was that it was normal for it to do that and now that is the exact part they are replacing. Anyway, that is where I stand with this situation. If any of you have read this post all the way through, I would appreciate if anybody could respond. Thank you.
I can't wait for the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon CRD...are you listening Jeep Market Research? Who else is in line...
"As with Hyundai, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki, Chrysler heavily promoted its lengthy warranties throughout 2003 and 2004. But then in May of this year, the company announced that customers didn't seem to care about lengthy powertrain warranties, so it was going back to three years or 36,000 miles. "We felt like if customers are not seeing that as a value added we felt we could direct that into others areas of the company like product development," a spokesman told the Reuters news agency."
But if you follow the money, "lengthy warranties are very expensive when they're heavily used."
Warranty Week
Steve, Host
I am glad you enjoy your CRD. I have yet to see much over 22.5 in 2800 miles, and no oil used that can be seen on the dip stick. I hope mpg inproves or fuel prices drop soon.
1. 16.4
2. 18.2
3. 16.4
On my fillup today I put B10 in it hopefully to gain a little mileage. The brakes aren't dragging and like I said I keep my foot out of it. I pay close attention to not rev the engine much. Any ideas? Do you think something could be wrong with it?