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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The issue I don't yet understand about the oily deposit in my hose going to the intercooling is that my engine does not consume any oil at all between services. It may just be hot oil fumes diffusing through the 'membrane' of the hose. I changed oil at 12,000 miles intervals and I will extend the interval to 15,000 from now on.
    Concerning the EGR, I believe soot is the contaminant so I used 1/4 liter per tankful of straight petroleum distillate (white spirit = glycerophtalic paint thinner) to clean the injector nozzles while running and thus reduce production of soot. I read the safety instructions and chemical hazards associated to the fuel treatment doses one can buy in auto shops, questionned a chemist and came to this simple conclusion: it is white spirit that's being used for this specific task. Cetane booster is different and includes a compound made from potassium (K symbol in chemistry).
    The EGR valve I have on my engine is directly fitted to the turbo housing, which means it runs warmer than yours which is water cooled. This is a possible explanation for the clogging you seem to suffer from. But shure enough, city and sunday driving do clog the EGR valves over here especially with manual shifts + heavy acceleration before the max torque range. I religiously never accelerate hard in the low revs but give it all it can take above 2200 rpm. So far, so good and reaching excellence for my rig. It's like a second skin :)
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Caribou,

    The EGR valve on my CRD is actually fine. I blow it out weekly so there is no problem and I use an additive to keep the injectors clean.

    The oil vapor issue with the intercooler system is probably related to oil vaporization from the crankcase. There is a test ASTM D-5800 (Noack) that tests for oil loss via vaporization at operating temperatures. Mobil 1 will not publish or reveal these numbers for whatever reason. I am concerned that the 0W-40 is not holding up and vaporizing thus coating the intercooler system with oil. If there is significant enough loss past the rings, the by-products of combustion + oil may be contributing to the demise of the EGR valve in some cases. Also, you have ULSD in europe. That fuel will not be available to me until next year. Diesel fuel quality in this country does leave something to be desired.
  • sailormonsailormon Member Posts: 48
    I have been watching my fuel consumption on the onboard computer. It is proving to be quite close by the way. My wife is constantly trying to get better mileage than I get even though we only have about 1500 miles so far. Reading about some of you pushing the limit on rpm's at times seems to pay off. In a recent trip going to petoskey which is up and down rolling hills, I left it in cruise, let the engine downshift and rev up on each hill with the result of better mileage. Quite the opposite of what I would have expected. Also acclerating faster seems to not have much of an effect so long as I am not pushing overly hard. So far we seem to come in just below 23 mpg with out of town trip getting close to 25+, no long trips yet. By town I am speaking of a village with one blinker, not city. The longest trip was delivery from IN to N. MI. and it showed 29 when new but had the B-5 in it.
    I have saved my impressions until now. The new 06 does not have locking rear diff but uses selective braking to do the job. I am building a home on a hill and found the system works very well where I had to get a running start with my 250 ford pick im up.I can stop part way up in 2 wh. and then continue Going two tracking where I may have needed 4 wheel, it pulled up hills without spinning and no shifting. I like it. Other than fuel costs, we love the jeep and consider it to be the finest car we have owned. I am adding fuel service as are others at this point in hopes of keeping things cleaner. I have not hauled with it yet but will be adding a tranny cooler in traverse city. They have added these to other liberty's and seem to think it was no problem. Also air bags to the rear springs seems a good way to go. Would I recommend this car to others, yes in spite of diesel costs. Hey, just carry a pink motor scooter on the back and use it when you get where you are going. Ok, maybe dard green. BR
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I think you can rely on a dual cartridge filter system made by Parker-Racor if you are in doubt about the diesel fuel you can buy locally. They are known for being the best and most reliable fuel filter manufacturers for 4x4 raids into the african desert, not to mention other hostile countries... I was very pleased when I found out that my filter was one of their making.
    Concerning oil, I refuse to use the 0W-40 because by definition "0" is not what I am looking for as of lubrification, understand the fluidity of the residual film of oil after a few days of parking. I've been using 5W-40 up to now with full satisfaction, so why change?
  • preferdieselspreferdiesels Member Posts: 30
    I just traded in my '04 Passat TDI for an '06 Liberty CRD Limited. The dealer in Union City, GA gave me a good deal after doing most of the trading by email following internet research of inventories, etc. I only have 300 miles on it so far with the first tank yielding 20 mpg mixed highway/city. I really like the vehicle so far.
  • silverminersilverminer Member Posts: 15
    I had a flat on the right rear tire. I put the spare on and the pressure sensor readout picked up the fact that I switched tires. I repaired the right rear tire and put it on the back of the Jeep to be my next spare.

    My problem: The computer isn't recognizing the pressure in the spare (formerly the right rear).

    I really don't want to have to take this to the dealer. Any ideas?
  • boilermaker2boilermaker2 Member Posts: 131
    I've read a few posts about people unable to find Biodiesel?

    Try this site:
    http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/

    It is the official biodiesel site listing stations that properly go through the "process." Without going through the details (they are at the site). At these stations, you will see the biodiesel sticker on the pump. Thanks to these guys and the Checkoff Dollars paid for by farmers ( United Soybean Board ), the standardization of this product ( BQ-9000 and ASTM D 6751 which may be read here

    On another note, you may see where they list B2 or B5 on the retail refueling sites link listed above. Until someone proves me wrong, I am viewing this as the minimum blend. One B2 site that I am currently filling up is blending B10.

    Little longer than anticipated, but I thought it would be a nice overview and fuel for thought. ;)
  • patentguypatentguy Member Posts: 45
    The only time the spare pressure will be indicated is when it is low. Only the 4 tires on the ground will give an actual pressure readout.
  • crdfancrdfan Member Posts: 10
    I bought the 2nd CRD that came to my dealership in March. Since then I have had it in the service department 5 times. They are currently replacing my 3rd EGR valve and they are not helpful when you ask them what you can do to prevent it. Last week I had it in for a part that took 6 weeks to get here and when I went to pick it up after it was fixed it would not start! Thats when they told me it was the EGR valve again and it was on back order. Needless to say they are renting me a car for the second time. I have considered using the lemon law in this case but I love the vehicle. I have 14,500 miles on it and get anywhere from 22-25 miles to the gal. I spoke to the regional manager for Chrysler and found out I knew more about the engine than they do (by the way I am a woman). My dealership only has one mechanic that is so called qualified to work on it and he is always calling the tech line to find out what to do. The dealership never wants to admit to a problem, but I have been in so often it is becoming a joke. I have filed complaints with the NHTSA and plan on writing more letters to Chrysler and anyone else I can think of. If I were you I would contact the regional managers for Chrysler and go up the chain of command and maybe someone will respond in a helpful way. Be prepared because you will know more about the engine than anyone in Chrysler as I have found out. Good Luck!
  • silverminersilverminer Member Posts: 15
    Patent Guy - I agree that's what SHOULD happen, but it's not what IS happening. I have 35 psi in the spare right now and yet the warning light comes on periodically and flashes, indicating the spare tire pressure is low (without an actual pressure readout).
  • robdrobd Member Posts: 3
    Hey Gang I just picked up my 2005 Jeep Liberty with the CRD of course.

    When i put the key in and turn it on i dont see the glow plug light its about 45 degrees out. Is that normal? engine starts right up!

    Of course the dealer never had to deal with one of theese before
  • silverminersilverminer Member Posts: 15
    "When i put the key in and turn it on i dont see the glow plug light its about 45 degrees out. Is that normal? engine starts right up!"

    Robd - It lights up, you just have to look carefully and extremely quickly. Read the manual and it discusses how it works. Completely different than what most of us are used to. The problem is, now I get in a company truck and don't wait for the glow plug light to go out!
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
    Why dont you call the service department and see if they can answer this one on the phone. There could be an easy way to reset the computer with a press of a button.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Try this:
    With the trip reset button kept pushed inwards, turn the ignition key from "OFF" to the first position and watch the console do a self-test. You should be able to check all the lights and dials go to all positions. :shades:
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Can't you take your Jeep to a Cummins diesel shop, or even to a VW garage?
    You may also have a Bosch diesel repair shop close to where you live.

    Many people don't use all possibilities that are offered because they think it's ridiculous or just intend to charge the warranty. Adult school should be proposed to your mechanics because there is nothing special about this thing, meaning that he/she really has a chance to learn. We have women automobile mechanics here that do extremely well because of ancient machist competition. Perhaps you would need a few of them back home. ;)
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    Heard that the diesel used in the liberty is made by VW? Any truth to that? DXC own a very large majority share of MTU diesel
    http://www.mtu-friedrichshafen.com/en/frameset/f_home.htm
    Anyone know for sure?
  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    After reading this board for a while I am left to believe that the EGR problems with the CRD are related to clogging or not keeping them clean. If this is true, what is the best way to keep them clean so this won't happen? Is there any way to blow them out - if so how do you do it? Where is the EGR?

    So far so good with mine but I do drive a steep mountain every day so I am concerned about clogging on the descent.
    Thanks
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    It is made by a division of Detroit Diesel that used to be named VM Motori.
    DDC Cento Photo of DDC Cento

    VM Motori

    Far too many people think the diesel is made by Mercedes or is a Mercedes design. It is not. The dealer I purchased my CRD from asked me how did I like driving my Mercedes Jeep. After explaining the origin of the engine and the relationship of VM Motori as a supplier of engines to Chrysler before it was part of Daimler I was amazed that the salesperson told me "During Jeep training they said it was a Mercedes diesel". He still thinks it is a Mercedes.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    That's what I got with my 2005 limited Liberty 3.7 gas. If I got that kind of fuel MPG I'd be at my dealerd front door! Our Sport CRD gets on an avrage of 22 +or -. There were 4 upgrades on the computer that my dealer found, however it was nothing that I could see that helped my mpg. I use BP #2 diesel consistantly and have not noticed any problems, as far as I can tell anyway.

    Perhaps you not getting into 4th or 5OD. To get mine into 5OD I have to be at 57mph or it stays in 4th. Never having had a diesel before there may be something I am not doing just correct either. This forum has helped me in checking my oil that looks like pure black. I have 2850 miles on it, but have used NO oil by the dipstick. Which some have said their CRD has used 1qt at 600 miles.

    I had the formed mudd flaps by Jeep, put on. And I had the flimsey cheap ST tires replaced with 8 ply heavy duty M&S tires put on. I hope something I have said helps a little.
  • robdrobd Member Posts: 3
    Thanks

    SO they are very fast?
  • pttrilliumpttrillium Member Posts: 62
    My dealer was quite clear that the new EGR they installed was of a different design. I have had absolutely no problem since the quick replacement and computer reflash completed at the same time.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    If anyone has any doubts, the letters "VM Motori" are cast in the aluminum alloy on top of the CRD engine. VM Motori is a subsidiary of Detroit Diesel which is owned by Daimler Chrysler. I suspect the engine is manufactured in Italy because VMM was the lowest cost alternative and/or already had an engine that could be adapted to the Liberty.
  • love2golflove2golf Member Posts: 5
    I have a 2005 Liberty Limited gasser that i did a 5 tire rotation on at 6,000 miles. Same thing happened to me. Took it to the dealer and the problem was that the spare tire does not have a pressure sensor on it -- so the way to get the low pressure warning off is to put the original tire back where it was (its ok to do a 4 tire rotation), and put the spare back in the spare tire area.

    I asked about putting a pressure sensor on the spare -- the dealer indicated that it was about a $100 part -- not worth it to me as it is a bit more than the cost of a new tire.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    for both the base system and premium -If your spare tire is full size and matching the other four, then the spare tire has a pressure sensor.

    If you have the premium system then just exactly how does the dealer explain "spare low pressure" on the EVIC?
  • bigpapabigpapa Member Posts: 30
    Well today I went to go pick up my jeep from the dealer after they replaced the CCV valve (oil separater). They insisted that after I drive 500 miles for me to bring the vehicle back to monitor the oil consumption. They topped off the engine oil and left two quarts on my front seat. How nice of them. I then got into my jeep and drove off and immediately my brakes started to drag. I turned right around and took it back where it has been for a week. My poor CRD was supposed to have the brakes fixed, obviously that was not the case. The good thing is that the rental place still had the vehicle that I rented this past whole week. I literally have a folder packed with papers pertaining to this jeep with things being done to it. I contacted lawyers today and I was told that I am in a very good position to file for a lemon law.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The CCV valve sits on top of the exhaust camshaft, at the uppermost position of the engine enclosure/volume. It "lives" in an environment where there should never be much liquid except if you really have an oil return to sump issue.
    (If you have an obstructed return of oil, when the engine is running you would be able to see liquid stagnate where you normally fill your engine.)
    This valve is sucked by the turbo intake port just after the filter element so there has to be something wrong in the valve itself if the engine burns it's own oil, otherwise there is an oil leak in the turbo. In either case this could clog the EGR and call for a better oil separator: the "Provent" from Mann+Hummel that I have not yet taken time to install :sick:
  • silverminersilverminer Member Posts: 15
    The spare tire does have a sensor, as indicated by the pressure reading once I moved it (the spare) to the right-rear position. The right-rear also has a sensor, which is how I determined it was going flat (which was really cool to watch, by the way). It makes no sense whatsoever to switch the spare back to the spare position. And, yes, you can do a 4-tire rotation but why? You can get 20% more tire life before replacing your tires, something I can't wait to do as I hate the original tires.
  • sailormonsailormon Member Posts: 48
    Nothing has ever come up about the traction control of the 06's other than a referance by myself. This is for those who might find this interesting. I accidently tested it further yesterday on the way to a job. The day was sunny and the fall colors great which led us down an old logging road in N. MI. Actually it was a county road called seasonal. We were skirting swamp on both sides and kept out of two sink holes and finally came to a dip that only log skidsters could have made it through. Thus we needed to back up the road to where we started.

    This is where the test came in as I misjudged the sink hole on my side and the jeep slid into it, leaning well over to the side. Other than my wife getting excited we were fine. The two wheels on my side were hanging in water and muck with no traction whatever with the skid plates holding it up. Oddly the jeep kept going back with the other side being high and dry. Just last year with my tracker, we had to walk out and get a tow in a similar situation. By the way, we still have the stock tires on yet which I am looking foreward to upgrading. For you guys in the mountains, back country around here can be a different game due to bottomless roads which come and go including forms of quicksand which really leaves you hanging. Great system, love it. BR
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    What do you prefer?
    -A bottomless road with a water hole or
    -A bottomless cliff where you must keep going because you can't get out of the truck the door just gets too heavy and pushes against you when you try to get out.
    Needless to say if you have the proper tires this thing will take you almost everywhere and you will be able to tell others things they won't believe :P
  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Does anyone know at what point the turbo actually kicks in or does it run all the time? I am trying to understand it better for "cool down" purposes. The manual is very vague.

    Thanks
  • sailormonsailormon Member Posts: 48
    I will take the mud any time. Those cliffs are a thing of bad dreams. I will watch you rather than join. BR
  • trumpet_washertrumpet_washer Member Posts: 48
    They used this engine because in its 2.5L non-turbo version it has been used in Europe in the same vehicle, which is called a Cherokee Sport. Different wet sleeves and a turbocharger make for a more US friendly package. Same engine is manufactured under license by Hyundai and is used in the Santa Fe everywhere else in the world. Look out if Hyundai decides to put it in the Alabama Santa Fe's.
  • trumpet_washertrumpet_washer Member Posts: 48
    That's how I found the local B11 supplier. He wasn't selling the stuff when I had a VW TDI. BTW, that's the only diesel he sells. It's one of those commercial fueling operations with high-speed double hoses and no attendant. Just takes their card or any credit card. He's about 20 cents cheaper than the other stations. :D
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The turbo kicks in whenever there is a demand for power like acceleration, pulling a load, going up a hill, going through mud and snow. As to the exact point it kicks in it is about 1400 or 1500 rpm, so times higher. All depends on what is going on at the moment.

    The cool down section is a bit vague but since this appears to be your first turbocharged vehicle, I can understand the confusion. Cool down does a couple of things; it allows the turbo to slow down and nearly stop spinning. If you shutdown a turbo that is spinning at 80k+, the oil that lubricates it and cools it will get coked and destroy the bearings the turbo rides on. Second if you have been working the engine by towing highway, things get quite toasty, so when idling, you cool the bearing and turbo itself because the engine runs cooler at idle. While at idle, oil circulates around the bearings cooling them off.

    I think I wrote this in a confusing manner, but I hope it helps,
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Wasn't the 2.5 VM Motori engine that was modified for use in the US also a turbo?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The 2.5L used from 2001 to 2004 in the Cherokee is a turbo diesel. There was not a non-turbo. 2.5L in the Cherokee that was sold as Cherokee in North America and for export was also a turbo diesel.
    The 2.8L is now the only diesel being offered here or for export.

    Hyundai does not use the 2.8L. Hyundai licenses a 2.0L diesel design.
  • love2golflove2golf Member Posts: 5
    I guess I should have clarified. I didn't know that the limited (gas, 17 inch wheels) had pressure sensors at all until after i had done the 5 tire rotation. It must have been the basic system as the only indication I had was a general warning (not specific to the actual tire) on the overhead console, and the yellow low tire pressure light on the dashboard.

    I'm not sure if the CRD Limited has any pressure sensors at all, or only the basic system if the advanced system was not ordered. Does anyone else know?
  • ryoungetryounget Member Posts: 9
    I paid 2.59 today in New Caney. I saw RUG off telephone road in houston for 2.23.

    Flying J has this site shows there selling price around the country, Note in the valley it dropped below 2.00 today.

    http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/diesel_CF.cfm?state=ALL
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Base and Premium both use the same sensors on the wheels. All CRD have the base system at minimum and if you have the premium then the PSI of the tires (spare excluded) is displayed on the EVIC. EVIC is Electronic Vehicle Information Center and it is the overhead console. If you have the base system then a warning light on the dash is the only indication of a problem.
    Premium monitors the spare tire pressure. Base system does not monitor the spare tire pressure according to documentation of the system, however, owners at another Jeep KJ site have stated that the base system does monitor the spare tire. I only own the CRD Limited with the premium system so I can't say 100% who is correct about the base system spare tire monitoring.
    You are supposed to have a sensor on the spare with either system.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Arrrrrggggghhhhhh! Enough of the price discussion of fuel. Discussing the prices never changes them. I wonder if there is a topic devoted to fuel pricing? If not, perhaps there should be one for diesel and one for gas.
  • boilermaker2boilermaker2 Member Posts: 131
    I took a 5 pin adapter and hooked it up to my trailer. I blew a fuse and now don't have dashboard lights or RR taillight. Has anybody else had this problem?

    On a positive note, everything that the owners manual said the fuse controls, doesn't work...just like the owners manual says... :blush:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Pf_flyer, host over in News and Views, gave me the Flying J link a week ago (mostly to rub it in since his gas back East is .50¢ a gallon cheaper than mine is in Boise).

    He hosts the Report Your Local Gas Prices Here discussion in N&V and will be happy to accept reports about diesel prices.

    Steve, Host
  • frank9425frank9425 Member Posts: 11
    Would any of you technical-types know whether the CRD is burning the same amount of fuel at a given rpm, when it is going up a hill or down a hill?
    To clarify the question, eons ago, gasoline engines with carbs would suck the same amount of gas whether you are climbing or descending a hill, assuming the engine is revving at the same speed. I'm curious to know if these smarter cars are more economical. If a CRD is climbing a hill at 1800 rpm and uses "X" amount of fuel, would it also use the same "X" amount of fuel coasting at 1800 rpm, or would the computer sense that as much fuel wasn't needed and only inject a smaller amount? :confuse:
  • ungnungn Member Posts: 19
    Would any of you technical-types know whether the CRD is burning the same amount of fuel at a given rpm, when it is going up a hill or down a hill?
    To clarify the question, eons ago, gasoline engines with carbs would suck the same amount of gas whether you are climbing or descending a hill, assuming the engine is revving at the same speed.


    Even a Carb is load dependent and not RPM dependent. They WILL NOT get the same mileage up or down a hill unless you are going up the hill with the throttle closed. Maybe you are talking model T era? Carbs are dumb, but they aren't THAT dumb.

    If you go up a hill with a CRD, the gas pedal will be pressed and the turbo will be making boost.

    When you go down a hill at the same speed, the gas pedal won't be pressed and the turbo won't be making boost.

    The mileage will be a Lot greater going downhill, maybe double.
  • trumpet_washertrumpet_washer Member Posts: 48
    You're right. Their website wasn't clear about the turbo application. And I should have known better about the Hyundai because I have a friend who has one. :blush:
  • silverminersilverminer Member Posts: 15
    I have the Premium system and there are sensors in all five tires. The EVIC displays the PSI of each "road" tire (not the spare). The sensor light on the dash comes on if any tire, including the spare, has low pressure. The EVIC will indicate "Low Spare Tire Pressure" but does not display a pressure.

    At any rate, my EVIC is working correctly for the road tires but keeps telling me I have a low pressure condition on the spare, which I know is not correct! As noted in my original posting, the tire that is now the spare was a road tire and everything worked/displayed correctly until I switched them and now I can't convince the EVIC that the spare is correctly inflacted. Interesting. And annoying. Any ideas?
  • unclebubbaunclebubba Member Posts: 80
    Has anyone experienced a power loss, possibly due to fuel deprivation? My CRD with less the 500miles had an episode of loss of power, in second gear with the pedal to metal it was going between 3 to 5 mph. Stopped the car engine, in neutral the engine was knocking and running very rough. Shut it down (no codes or indicator lights went off) tried to restart and it would not start. Waited for about 7 to 10 minutes and it started and ran fine. It has not done it again, however, after accelerating, such as passing another vehicle, it will buck 2 or three times then run ok. Dealer could not find anything wrong, as no codes were set off. Of course this is the first diesel they sold. Anyway, if any of you has any ideas, they would be welcome. I am fairly convinced it is a fuel delivery issue and when I take it in next, I am going to have them check the fuel delivery lines for kinks or hoses that may be collapsing. I might even ask that they change out the fuel filter under warranty. Thanks.

    P.S.
    I get 23.5mpg combined and 25.2 mph highway.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Even with fuel injection, gasoline engines need a specific air-fuel mixture to run correctly no matter what the load. In diesel the amount of fuel is varied based on the load. So sitting at a traffic light in a diesel uses about 1/20th of the fuel you would use under load.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Could be crappy fuel. What is the build date? If it is an early build date, pre May, you may need a computer flash with an update. Check with the dealer to see if they have any TSB's that could be applied to your CRD.
  • sgaglionsgaglion Member Posts: 4
    Question?
    Is the fuel filter and fuel/water separator unit...one and the same?
    If not, can someone direct me to the locdation of the fuel filter?

    I'm going to be using B20 and would like a sparee fuel filter in the car in case it glogs-up.

    Thanks in advance
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