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1. Poor fuel quality. Too much sulfur, cetane too low.
2. Marginal motor oil. 0W-40 is rather light and I feel that more of the oil is vaporizing past the rings, etc and the by-products of the burn is adding to the problem.
3. Possible design issue with the EGR valve.
I would really like to hear from you that have had diesels with solid experience. Thanks a lot!
farout
The EGR has been a problem for some, I'm confident that Diamler will solve the problem.
As to maintaining the engine, I would change oil more frequently than called for in the manual. Since U.S. diesel is still high in sulphur, in most cases, and not the best of quality, a more frequent oil change would be advised.
Also, try this. With the first start of the day, let the Jeep idle for about 30 - 45 seconds before putting it in gear. The reason I suggest this is that the torque converter partially to nearly completely drains into the body of the transmission after 4 - 6 hours. Letting it sit and idle for the 30 - 45 seconds allows the system to refill the torque converter and whatever else drains when sitting overnight. I got this info from a local Dodge dealer. I do this religiously and it makes such a difference in the performance of the trans. It is much smoother and hooks up properly in 5th.
I am able to get the trans to hook up in 5th at 53mph and sometimes a little less but it will stay in 5th as low as 49 mph with the proviso that you are using the cruise control.
One last thing. Change your diesel fuel. Get one with a cetane of at least 45. Locally Shell sells a 45 cetane fuel.
Oil Change - Based on oil analysis of Rotella Synthetic and Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W40 in other diesel engines with EGR I can not recommend changing oil early. Oil was still good at 10,000 miles per oil analysis in TDI engines. 6250 miles of schedule B is conservative in my judgement. Maybe not if you use the 5W30 Mobil oil though.
I work where they make the frames. We have special engine mount brackets made
for the diesel engine. Thats how I know.
Awesome - I'm going to be looking more closely at the Wranglers. Maybe I'll see one. I know Mahindra made a diesel Jeep in India for years. Maybe they export the frames to another country.
I'll be looking for other diesel Liberties too. I have yet to see anyone driving another diesel Liberty and I've had mine since February. People, I think we are all rare specimans.
What happened to Penske? Did he die and will it to Daimler Chrysler? :confuse:
You bet we're rare. You can see it on the people's faces. SUV's smaller than an armored vehicle just aren't supposed to have diesels. It upsets the natural order. It challenges long-held false logic. Poor some biodiesel in it so it doesn't stink up the place. That really makes them wonder what happened to the world.
You have a vehicle that will haul four people and there belongings anywhere, pull as much as a mid-sized truck and still get 22-23 MPG. Most people just don't understand. Could it, would it, should be called a "CRD thing"?
LK
Thanks and good luck! LK
"In 2000 VM Motori, together with Detroit Diesel Corporation, became part of the DaimlerChrysler Group. In 2003 the share packet of the Company was defined as follows: 51% Penske Group and 49% DailmerChrysler Group." link
Part of the confusion probably stems from the fact that Detroit Diesel was partly a Penske Group company at one time, but it's now a subsidiary of DC. (link). Not to mention that Detroit Diesel was originally founded by GM.
Or so the net says - Moparbad may have better information that what I can dig up.
Or maybe no one really cares, except Roger. :shades:
Steve, Host
You are correct that Penske still owns 51% of DDC Cento.
Detroit Diesel Corporation (DDC) buys VM Motori in 1995, OEM automotive sales account for 75% of income. Cherokee (#1 in SUV's) and Voyager (#1 in mini-vans) become a major customer for VM in major deal with Chrysler. 2000 saw change again with the purchase of DDC by DaimlerChrysler AG. In 2003 Penske Corporation purchased a 51% stake, and today the company is co-owned by Penske and DaimlerChrysler (49% stake), and produces diesel engines for a variety of auto makers.
Bottom line, the CRD engine is made in Cento, Italy. I've never been to Cento, although I've been to Trieste where VM Motori used to have a manufacturing plant before they entered the automotive engine business.
Now wait a minute - that's your 1100 centos?
(sorry, a little Roman numeral joke for Tidester there).
Penske Group companies look to be worth about 11 billion by the way.
Steve, Host
LoL! But ... "cento" is Italian for 100 so I guess "DDC Cento" would have to be 1100X100 = 110,000.
(Unfortunately, "D" is one of those symbols you're not allowed to repeat -- now back to our regularly scheduled program!)
tidester, host
The whole thing about the fuel being poor quality is ringing truer every day. Especially when you think about the fact that in Europe, diesel passenger cars are common and here they are not. The demand for quality fuel for diesel passanger cars is much greater there. Hopefully things will come around here in north america.
2) Also, does anyone know what the ratings are in Europe? :confuse:
3)Has anyone found any websites offering aftermarket items "specifically" for the CRD? :confuse:
1. The minimum cetane requirement in Canada and the U.S. for on-road diesel is 40. In California, it is 47 or 48 depending on refiner size. Smaller refiner gets to make 47 cetane.
2. In the European Union, a minimum cetane of 51 is required.
See the link to the article below
link title
1. Stuttering or missing, sagging performance are all related to the cetane number of the fuel. With the majority of refiners selling 40 cetane fuel, there lies some of the performance issues including lower than expected fuel economy. The more I read and learn, the more I realize that the engine in the CRD is designed to run on 50+ cetane fuel, and not the crap they sell here. Yes, you can get away with 40 cetane, but at the loss of performance and fuel economy and increased emissions.
2. EGR problems are related to the sulfur content of domestic and Canadian diesel fuels. The burning of sulfur yields sulfur dioxide and a little sulfur trioxide. When mixed with water, they produce sulfurous acid and sulfuric acid, both very corrosive substances as we all know. These acids also attack the exhaust system , the cylinder walls , rings, etc. The sulfur burn by products also poison the catalytic converter and increase particulate emissions. These particulates can eventually clog the converter, leading to other issues.
So what do we do?
1. Find a higher cetane fuel. Locally in Montgomery County MD, Shell sells a 45 cetane fuel. Add some cetane improver to that so hopefully you end up with a cetane of 50+. If you cannot find Shell, just add the cetane improver or buy a fuel where you know the cetane is greater than or equal to 50. I would even suggest posting places where the cetane of the fuel is known to be 45 or better.
2. The sulfur issue will not go away until sometime in 2006, so we are stuck. For those of you who live in CA, you should have access to their low sulfur ARCO "EC" diesel fuel. As for the acid problem, change your oil more frequently than recommended in the owners manual, especially if you are using the 0W-40 oil. I recommend a 5W-40 oil like the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV, or Shell Rotella, Valvoline Blue Extreme, Amsoil 5W-40. All have the CI-4 detergency rating and a very high TBN. Once the ULS diesel is being sold nationwide, then the 0W-40 oil should be fine and the EGR issues that some of you are facing should go away.
Your findings give great credence to the DC product development & sales district manager I spoke with here in South Carolina. He is from Australia and his comment that the only place they have had issues with EGR and performance issues is here in North America. His belief was that it was due to the low quality of fuel available here. We do have crap for fuel! I will be using a cetane booster to try and eliminate/minimize the symptoms I have been having.
Thanks, once again for your investigation and your response.
When I suggest an additive for diesel fuel to improve cetane, improve lubricity, add biocide (in the appropriate situation), anti-gel (when appropriate) the reaction varies from agreement to questions to ridicule.
I'll continue using an additives to deal with poor quality fuel and protect expensive injection systems.
My gas vehicles receive no additives. No reason to add them and most additives are as effective as snake oil.
Yes, anomious (I believe it was you who stated) they got our money.
The sour taste in my mouth is still there and my "marketing misfire" statement months ago seems to have won out. CRD's here but not there, not dealing here, begging customers elsewhere to please take them off the lot. Commander hemi's are held at the factory to replace the trans filters but does DC care about us - no.
We can pay $110 to get the filter changed.
...(2) Depress the fuel primer 20 consequetive times then open the bleeder screw on top of the housing to dispel trapped air..."
Most recently GM's issuing of two TSB's...in their Cummins engines." (sic)
"Right now we are getting calls out of Texas of fuel being contaminated by asphaltines in the Mexican crude it is derived from, and our additive will not reverse or correct that!"
Stanadyne 2005/04/27
Coming back from OK (getting 22mpg with tx shell and power service on cruise at 65 for the trip up), fueled up at a Conoco and sped back to tx and got 28 mpg, a record.
Now I just bought my second tank of Mobil and got 24.5 of pure grocery getting miles. I went and bought the gallon of CRC Fuel Supplement at napa to mix with my power service to use it up and switched to mobil at the same time. I believe though, that I still have my original egr because of the power service and 4 bottles of the good synthetic Red Line Catalyst that I have used.
(It appeared to be bad old 80-90w even though built with the trailer package) Metal filings were very few and the ring gear was meshing correctly, evidenced by the wear marks.
From Grubbs parts department learned that the old 80-90w grease has to be eaten by the dealerships - 75-140 seems to be the recommended lube for front and rear differentials. The new limited slip additive may or may not be added on the assembly line and contrary to the manual - 2 bottles are to be used since the new lube is not the old thick stuff that use to be used.
I used a machinist's brass brush to remove the old orange "gasket material" from the rear differential ( I later found out the mechanic's use brake spray). And I used the Jeep light gray RTC to seal the rear. This is the material I found on the front differential. The front differential lube was clear and clean and appeared to be the good 75-140w syn.
I was advised that with the syn lube in back, I might notice a slight delay in the Trak-Lok clutches engaging.
Shell: 45
Mobil/Exxon: 41 - 43
Chevron/Texaco: 40 (48 in CA)
ARCO: ULSD in CA 54
AMOCO: 45
Redline and Amsoil make some good stuff. I am using the cetane improver from Amsoil presently and it has detergents for injector cleanliness. Higher cetane gives you a better burn.
As long as the refiners continue to deliver marginal diesel fuel to consumers, EGR and other performance issues will continue to arise.
There is a direct impact. By increasing the cetane the combustion process is more complete and this reduces soot and egr fouling.
Hybrid and Diesel SUV Roundup (Inside Line)
Steve, Host
In our future hydrogen economy, the CRD will emit relatively little soot, if diesel produced from H+ or even natural gas is made widely available. And we won't need to retrofit hydrogen storage tanks in our rigs. :lemon:
I'm reading a lot about EGR problems and it sounds like this might be related to fuel sold in the U.S. I also hear that a quick fix is to "blow the engine's nose" by stomping on the gas and running the piss out of it.
How is it that sailboats and motorboats that travel all over the world can idle along at a purr day after day after day? Set me straight!
The "nose blowing" is not a fix, but a preventive measure. Since the cetane of domestic diesel is in the low 40's, high sulfur and European diesel is 51+ and ULS, in there lies the problem. Lower cetane fuels do not burn as readily or as completely as higher cetane fuels, thus producing more soot/particulate. The level of sulfur in domestic diesel contributes to the particulate issue and creates corrosive acids within the engine and within the exhaust system including the EGR valve. When domestic diesel goes ULS sometime in 2006, the EGR issue and some of the particulate issue should easy to a fair degree. I do not see domestic refiners increasing the cetane, or so I have heard. In CA, ARCO makes a diesel that is ULS and has a cetane of 54. I would love to get my hands on some of that. In the meantime, I will blow the nose of the EGR and add an ashless cetane improver to do what I can to keep my CRD happy and healthy.
1. Mobil 0-40 sucks, Mobil 0-40 is great
2. You must change oil early, no is ok for 25k miles
3. Only a plus oil is ok for the CRD, Plus oil not needed
4. Break in by taking it easy first 500mi, No stomp on it
5. Worry about EGR, EGR replaced under warranty-no problem
6. Intakes will clog at 50k mi, Intakes will be fine
7. Use additives its the only thing saving your engine-Don't need additives
8. Get a PROVENT now, don't need it on turbo
9. Etc (you get the idea)
So, my point is-other than following DC recommended procedures, what is the "average" driver (me) who has limited knowledge/skills to do-what advice do you follow?