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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Ethom4321,

    If you can change you own oil you can change the front differential. The front differential has two plugs, one on the bottom and one on the side that determines the oil fill level. Of course, you have to remove the front bottom engine cover to get at the differential. Most parts stores sell cheap plastic pumps that will fit into your oil container for pumping oil into a differential or standard transmission.

    The rear might be a little harder. You can buy a suction pump for around $15 to suck out the oil or you can remove the cover. You cannot get all of the old oil out with the suction a pump but you can get most of it. The advantage to this method is that if it is not leaking before the fluid change it will not leak after.

    If you remove the cover you can wash the cover and wipe out the crud that sometimes collects in the bottom of the diff. I'm not sure, but it looks like my rear cover is installed with red RTV sealer and not a gasket. Which is good because gaskets on differentials tend to leak and RTV tends to not leak.

    If it is RTV, you will have to clean off the old material and wash the mating surfaces with a solvent. Then put a neat 1/8 - 3/16 inch bead in the center of the mating surface of the cover going around the inside of the bolt holes. You don't want any globs of this stuff running around the inside of the diff. You must install it within 5 minutes of applying the RTV. Stick a couple of bolts through some holes and start them and slide cover into place. If you place the cover before you install any bolts you don't want it sliding all over the place before you put in the bolts. Also, you need to know the torque so you don't warp the cover. You don't need a lot of torque with RTV.

    If the diff uses a gasket, everyone knows how to install a gasket. A little stick em on the cover to hold the gasket and torque it into place.

    As to when to change the diff fluid, I do it when I have time which may be longer than when the manual says and I always go back with synthetic so it doesn't matter so much when. My son-in-law finally changed the fluids in the differentials on my daughter's '99 GC at 115,000 miles and they still seem to be okay. He put in synthetic oil so he doesn't have to do it so often. :D
  • bvcrdbvcrd Member Posts: 196
    What about the additive that needs to go in? Friction Modifier?
  • brsheldonbrsheldon Member Posts: 1
    I picked up my red CRD on April 27 2006, it was a sport 4X4 model with a basic option package. It drove nice, had lots of power, and got 30 mpg on one trip going 70-75 mph. On May 21 while taking a senic wooded two lane a large tree fell on the front, hood and roof. The liberty was totaled with only 1800 miles on it. Nice while I had it. :cry:
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    No engine light comes on in my case because I have an older version of the Bosch controller.
    The mileage difference was greater than 10% specifically with the K&N filter. It was much less in % comparing to the original and to the Mann+Hummel filter I have now. Mann+Hummel provide proffessional filters here for construction equipment, so I'm not afraid of dust getting in.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Hi Siberia,
    When I said under light load, I ment engine load versus it's full output capacity. I didn't think 'gas peddal' because there is a brain between the accelerator pedal and the engine nowdays!
    I'm happy for you that you are getting a better feeling of how this thing works and behaves. This will give you a clear position next time you will be facing a dealer :shades:
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Take the example of an old gasser:
    -the egr opens the flow of exhaust gas everytime the vacuum sensing line connected before/after the intake flap of the gas engine comes to a matching pressure/spring force of the actuator.
    This is done continuously by the common rail calculator today. And additionally it sends out post-injection fuel when the combustion is finished to keep the catalyser at the proper temperature.
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    The first of last month I start driving the CRD like a rented mule. and I drove it like that for two weeks, then the last two weeks I drove it like an old lady. This what I found. the tranny on the first two week shifted very high, on all the gears, 5th was on the 62 or 63 range. then on the last two week the shifting for the first week was real bad, every time it shift it clunck even on reverse,then on the last two days of the second week things smooth out and now 5th is back to 53, and the clunck is gone, it is very smooth now. ?. Is the computer smart?, is the computer change things by our way of driving?. please explain, or maybe is my brain &$%#@*(&!. :surprise:
  • rkernbobrkernbob Member Posts: 11
    Yeah... VM has a few more levers than the old gasers though. I'm not sure how much of a lever it is but the turbo is clamed to be a variable geometry turbo VGT. So they can decrease boost or increase exhaust pressure to try to help flow EGR. As for the post injection, yeah they're probably using a post but how does that apply to trans shudder? As you said this would be after combustion and therefore probably doesn't change torque output very much. Also, they aren't necessarily just trying to keep the catlyst at a certain temperature. The post is likely being used to drive emissions. They're using a pilot as well for noise purposes according to DCx marketing. Would be nice if we could turn some of that off!
  • steve05steve05 Member Posts: 52
    Mann&Hummel: They make filter equipment also - I'm working on a new V-6 engine plant in Flint for GM and M&H makes ALL the filter gallery equipment for the machine floor. (Coolant to the actual machining, well, machines, goes round trip and gets all its filtering done by these large (house-sized) filtering machines.

    ALSO: NEW STICKER AT THE PUMP: "NOT TO BE USED IN ANY 2007 VEHICLE OPERATING ON ANY PUBLIC ROADWAY." Interesting.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    What about the additive that needs to go in? Friction Modifier?

    I don't know, Bvcrd. Is friction modifier needed with Amsoil? I have never used a friction modifier with synthetic gear oil in a limited slip differential. The last synthetic I used said on the container that it was approved for that category. Someone who knows about Amsoil should answer. Winter2?
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Hi Caribou1,

    I am pretty sure I have always clearly understood your meaning. However, I am not so sure about the clarity of my writing.

    I have done my own repair work for the past 44 years including engine rebuilding, transmission (auto and manual), differential, transfer case and multiple carburetors setups. I have even successfully built and tuned a couple of blown alcohol engines. When cars became computerized I was kind of left behind, partly because I didn't have to do much anymore and I could afford new or newer cars.

    When the diesel Liberty came along I was thinking diesels are so simple, "A caveman could do it!" I am still laughing at myself about that one.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Can you say where this data came from?

    Hi Rkernbob,

    The source of the data that you requested is:

    http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/EE/282.pdf

    If you read the paper you will find that the readings below EGR 2% were due to “normal leakage” of the valve. The 4,000 RPM readings were taken with the EGR turned off so the zero EGR readings are not relevant to our discussion. I am not trying to resurrect the discussion just following up to your question. Absent actual data from a 2.8 L CRD that has an EGR valve that’s actually working properly … :)
  • lewilewi Member Posts: 4
    Hello everyone,
    I am a newbie here, just picked up my 2006 CRD 2 days ago. I really like it so far. I am a civil construction inspector and drive about 150 - 200 miles a day, in conditions ranging from highway to foot deep mud. I am curious what the "PS" mentioned in this thread is, some sort of additive I presume?

    lewi
  • biodieselmanbiodieselman Member Posts: 41
    On my last visit the dealer hinted at the possibility of the EGR valve sending mixed signal to the turbo which might cause the shuddering sensation as it intermittently boosted then shut down. After I get a new EGR on my Liberty, I will let you guys know if it went away.
    P.S. I never noticed the sensation when I was running a tank ful of biodiesel B5. Evidently,it lubed the fuel system and ran cleaner than it did on the petrol diesel,
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    Welcome, Lewi.
    PS is a cetane booster additive that you can get at truck stops. (there are others)
    Thought is that our CRD Libby's are designed to use the Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel when it comes out this Fall. ULSD will have higher cetane rating (like 48 as compared to the 42 or so we see now). Some discussion says some of the problems seen in engine fuel economy and performance can be fixed by boosting cetane to the 48 that the ULSD will have. Cetane rating is a measure of how promptly the fuel burns when injected. The more prompt, the higher the number. It affects when the piston see's it max downward pressure, like adjusting the timing.
    ULSD is supposed to have 1% to 2% less BTUs per gallon AND ripping the last of the sulfur out means the lubricity will be low (lower than the diesel engine manufacturer's assn required 3100 SLBOCLE and 520 HFRR). If the ULSD comes to your area via pipe line, the lubricity additive will be added by the local distributor (one hopes). The diesel Guru at Southwest Research Inst said the biocide that we use in out diesels at work also is a very good lubricity additive. So we are calibrating the lubricity function of Bio-Bor JF that our chemists put in the fuel. A little Bio-Diesel improves lubricity too. Bio-diesel doesn't store too well so we don't use it for our stand-by diesels.

    What is the build date on your new CRD Libby? Sounds like it's going to have it's work cut out for it.
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    I've seen Dow Molykote "Z" power (molybdinum-Disulphide) put in differentials, and gear boxes to reduce gear tooth wear.
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    amsoil has a slip lock additive not needed with severe gear 75-90-or 75-140 may be useful in ford cars and trucks with limited slip probably not needed in anything else
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    siberia: Well my last mileage was 24.4 mpg. That was about 2.4 mpg better. Remember I love in a hill area and use FT 4x4 about 25% of the time. The engine has a unique feel compared to before, not a bad feel. I am less aware of having to check the rpm's. The first PCM was a Bosh as well, but it had a different outside shape to it. I called and the cost of a new PCM is about $350. US, so there is no reason for DCX to balk at this being replaced, should others have similar issues.
    After going to the Mobil oil web site, it said I should use 5-40w. I called the communication dept of Mobil. I asked them, when DCX says to use 0-40w and VM Motori says 5-40w in less than 10C and 10-40 over 10C, and the Mobil site says 5-40w, what do they think? One rep said to stick with 0-40w as DCX says, and the other rep said 5-40w is better by far. The last rep said that the 0w stays 0w only for such a very brief time that it is not worth the advantage of the 5-40w has. I can't believe DCX has such a different opinion over V M Motori and Mobil! However everyone expressed not to go over the 10w as this would effect the engine negatively over time. So what's a person to do? Well I am pretty much convinced any good syn. 5-40w oil will do fine.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    nescosmo: On the diesel pumps here, there are 3"x5" stickers. They say that this is a low sulfer fuel, not intended for use in vehicle's for the years 2007 and above. The attendant said someone just put these up and did not know what it means. There is no difference in the way the CRD runs as far as I can tell, and this is my third fill up with the low sulfer fuel. So far.....there's been problem with the EGR either. If this fuel caused problems with the injector pump who would have to repair it? I can't imagine DCX not fixing the pump as long as it's under warranty. What's your thoughts?

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    steve05: Our sticker's say the exact opposite! I am wondering is someone made the wording wrong at the Cemex stations? Notice any difference in how it runs after the low sulfer fuel?

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    lewi: Here is the best advice anyone can give you, I give it freely. Get a 100,000 mile 5 year $0. ded. Chrysler Service Contract. You will thank me someday, should run no more than $1,700. or find a dealer who will sell it to you for there a bouts. Good luck.

    Farout
  • lewilewi Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the info.
    My CRD was built 2/06.
    Yeh, I use vehicles up pretty fast. 150,000 miles every 3 years or so (hard miles too).
  • iammetalmaniammetalman Member Posts: 4
    Low sulfur is what we have had since, I don't know, the 80's maybe. Ultra low sulfur is the new fuel that is now starting to show up.
    Low sulfur is not to be used in 2007 and newer diesels. They (will) require ultra low sulfur.
  • crdblazrcrdblazr Member Posts: 12
    Over the last week I made an effort to accelerate as lightly as possible to find the lowest shift points on my CRD. Here is what I found:

    2nd - 20 mph
    3rd - 36 mph
    4th - 53 mph
    5th - 65 mph

    No matter what I do I can't get it into 5th lockup at any less than 65 mph. But once it is there, I can turn on cruise and back off to about 58 mph without dropping into 4th.

    I'll keep trying to see if it changes due to "computer learning" or something. In other experiments, I found that the lowest speed my cruise control supports is 32.5 mph.
  • smokinclattersmokinclatter Member Posts: 40
    same thing just happened to mine. the dealer is replacing the turbo. they say it was leaking oil and interfeared with the EGR. 7 days for parts.it had a shutter just as the key was turned off.
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Crdblazr....Hve you ever thought about the differencial ratio maybe the ratio make the tranny shift different. What is your dif ration?.
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Farout... The Mobil station where I fill said the same but the ulsd with low lubricity is a problem. Pump price is high and it will fail out of the warranty, and you can't replaced only the pump because the job is involve..
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    To give you a funny comparison about the egr, shifting and post injection stuff that have to go along together:
    Imagine walking in a park on a warm day with a heavy dog on leash. You buy yourself an ice-cream and comes time to pay: you have to handle the dog and the cone in one hand, the wallet in the other.
    You have 3 variables:
    -the dog doesn't always obey
    -the ice-cream melts
    -the right coins don't always show up

    When the time comes to pay or shift gear the dog has to obey => egr really stays closed, the emissions control cycle has to be in a 'ready/done' state (ice-cream still in the cone) and finally when the throttle sensor is not just about at the beginning of it's travel the final transaction can occur.

    By temporarely removing this valve, I got rid of the dog and get the ice-cream cone for free. My tranny shifts immediately and locks either after a few seconds going uphill and instantly when going downhill. There are sensors checking for speed that delay locking when the speed is lower just after shifting and allow the converter to raise the speed again to the matching setpoint. I can quickly lift my foot (left toe) off the pedal and my truck will respond the same way. It will lock instantly.
    Enjoy your ice-cream :blush:
  • 05crdjeep05crdjeep Member Posts: 59
    Great metaphor. :P
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The B5 also has a higher cetane rating than straight diesel fuel and that helps the engine run better.

    When I add extra cetane improver to a fill up, the engine runs a bit quieter and much smoother. These engines are designed to run on EU standard diesel fuel with a cetane of 51 or better. Domestic diesel is 40 to 43 cetane (most of it). There are some that are 45 to 46, while the ULSD made by BP in CA has a cetane of at least 48.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    DaimlerChrysler Stopping Production of Diesel Jeep Liberty SUV (Yahoo)

    "It's still a strong seller, it's got great benefits to it -- better fuel economy, more towing power ... but emissions standards for 2007 became more stringent."

    Sounds like it's going to become a real collector's item.

    Steve, Host
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I have an inside source that stated they would be back in 2008. Could they be wrong?
  • stbstb Member Posts: 31
    Date: June 2006 Miles: 16,000
    Those that have been following our long term test of this 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD know we love diesel SUVs. Still the combination of higher than gasoline diesel fuel prices and less than spectacular mileage have left us in limbo about the Liberty CRD. Well, maybe that worm is turning. Diesel fuel has moderated in price in many parts of the country. Plus, our around town average of 21.9 miles per gallon is over 10% more efficient than a V6 gas Liberty. And on a recent long highway trip we managed a superb 28 miles per gallon. So, even though all of this may not be enough to warrant the CRD's premium price, at least we can feel good about not spending as much money on oil to get where we need to go.

    Otherwise, everything else about the Liberty has been to our liking. After 16,000 miles it's been trouble free. The back seat is not the roomiest, even for a couple of child seats, but the Liberty handles both roads and off-roads expertly well.
  • stbstb Member Posts: 31
    I believe the 2005 CRD comes with a 7 year ioo,ooo mile warrantee.
  • stbstb Member Posts: 31
    Warranty
    Powertrain - Miles=70000
    Outer Body Rust Through - Miles=100000
    Months=36
    Outer Body Rust Through - Months=60
    Powertrain - Months=84
    Miles=36000
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, the Yahoo story just focused on next year, so anything is possible after that.

    Steve, Host
  • manleymanley Member Posts: 72
    I remimber some people were talking about the rear break groan a while back. Mine has gotten worse and worse as I drive it. It has gotten loader and lasts a lot longer than it used to. My dealer just says that this is something that i have to live with. It is kinda embassing when my buddies at work climb in to go to lunch and it moans and groans like its 15yr old. Its only got about 4500 miles on it.

    Does anyone know how to fix this problem.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Keep in mind the Liberty is nearing the end of it's current model cycle. It is not unexpected that Jeep is not introducing a new diesel engine to meet the 2007 emissions in the current KJ series.

    2008 Jeep Liberty
    Due for a complete redesign in model year 2008 ("KK" series)
    Production starts August 2007


    I suspect that the 2008 Liberty will offer a diesel engine option when it is introduced in 2007 or will offer a diesel with short amount of time after it's introduction.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Chrysler is said to be evaluating several diesel options for the next-generation model."

    Diesel Swap: Jeep Drops Liberty CRD in Wake of Grand Cherokee Offering (Inside Line)

    Steve, Host
  • dieselfumes1dieselfumes1 Member Posts: 26
    I had this problem...notice I said "had". Your Dealer needs to check the bulletins. A fix for this came out a couple of weeks ago for the '06. It works! They replaced my brake pads and added a strap to hold the pads out slightly so they don't rub when cold.
  • towwmetowwme Member Posts: 52
    I wouldn't say that we are being orphaned. DC doesn't want you to have a chose between a Liberty CRD or a GC Diesel, they make a greater "profit" on the GC. I'm sure they are hoping that we the CRD owner; trade-in for a GC Diesel. Face it, DC didn't make the CRD or any other vehicle if they wouldn't make money. They could offer the CRD without breaking a sweat if they wanted to, and I would argue that point with the president of DC. If DC can do it for the GC they could do it for the Liberty. I am sure MB has another Diesel that would fit in the Liberty or they could just make changes to the VM Diesel. It's not like they didn't know emission changes were coming, its the government. :shades:
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    winter2: I think there will be a cold day in #*^^ when we see another diesel in a Liberty!
    If only 11,000 CRD's were made in 05 & 06, and DCX made 8,333 in 05 that means 2667 were made for 06. I am really feeling DCX not only used us as a test market, but dumped on us!
    I think we should get a massive write in action asking DCX to extend our warranties, to say 150,000 miles, or give us a bonus check to use on trading off our test market Jeeps, say within 24 months. I do believe we have been royally had!
    I am sick to think of the payments yet to be made on this "test market Liberty", we were falsely led to believe would be a long lasting endeavor by DCX. There must be something we can do! Anyone got any ideas?

    Farout
  • towwmetowwme Member Posts: 52
    Jeep offered a Diesel Cherokee in 1987-1988. I wrote about this before. Again it was around for (2) model years and it didn't sell well either. As DC are you really going to say that the CRD was a flop? I don't think so! It would put an end to the Diesel in this country except for HD pickups and Class 8's. They didn't make the Dodge M80 (that little pick-up) because they could sell 100,000 units. So our 11,000 units in (2)years is a failure. I am glad I got my CDR and am hoping I will get 250,000 miles out of it. Parts will be available for 10 years after production stops, then there are always the recycling yards. Buy another in a few years for a spare parts car. :surprise:
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    STB: NO! This is often repeated as a fact, but sadly it is only a someones wishful thinking. 70,000 is/was it.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    nescosmo: Not this is not all that bad! Perhaps this will cause our CRD's to crap out! Then DCX might just have to bare part of the burden for making us a "Test Market".
    The fuel sticker is odd to read and understand, why not say " this fuel is not acceptable for 2007 and beyond years! But that would be too simple!
    I once owned an NSU Prinz TTS. Got 36 mpg weighed less than 1,800 pounds and was quick and seated 4 adults fine. The EPA said it polluted too much. Soon after that the newer ones got 25 mpg and did not pollute above their standards. Now can anyone explain if one car gets 36 mpg, and a replacement gets 25 mpg how that is possible it isn't polluting more? NSU went under in early 1970, is it any wonder? Perhaps our CRD is just the same?

    Farout
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Member Posts: 107
    A farout quote, "If only 11,000 CRD's were made in 05 & 06, and DCX made 8,333 in 05 that means 2667 were made for 06. I am really feeling DCX not only used us as a test market, but dumped on us!"

    I had hoped to keep this vehicle a long time. I now have concerns about future parts availability. Jeep has problems getting parts for the units now. Parts availability will not improve as the vehicles develop age related obsolescence. I sure don't want to pay a high price and have a long wait for parts from Italy. Are there thoughts on this aspect of CRD vehicle ownership?

    On the other hand, the CRD could become a collector's item, but I doubt it.

    I finally suffer from the same ailment that many others on this forum have suffered from. My check engine light has lit and has stayed on. The dealer mumbled something about an EGR valve. The dealer has not found a confirmed source of the affliction. However, the dealer gave me a loaner so I am not suffering. How long a wait has there been for the EGR valve and/or other engine parts?

    Eleven thousand is not many. I hate the idea of having to preserve one of these soon to be vanishing breed, but I still like my Jeep.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    towwme: The cost of the new 2007 Dodge Ram Diesel is going to be a huge bunch more! Like $4,000. or more. That's not good news for anyone. If that translates over to the GC than it could add about the same there as well. If DCX wanted to insure further diesel customers in a Jeep, they would have spent more time making sure they didn't rush to dump the CRD on us "test market" consumers!
    Just wait until next September when the 2007 Liberty's come out, then look ate the car value books and see what our CRD's are worth. I am afraid to think about it. I feel we will in with the 2005 Oldsmobile class. Down the tubes I think is what they call that.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Towwme: Once Wrangler had a 4 door , Durkur or something like that, it lasted two years. However with the new Wrangler 4 door, with a 3.8 V06 this time it just might be a winner! I wonder how much I could get for my CRD on a trade? Maybe $12,000. if we are lucky?

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    willysjeep: I would not be concerned about parts, as they do keep parts for vehicles 10 years. That does not say how long it will take to get them. My dealer said an EGR takes a week if they have them in stock somewhere. I have never had a check engine light come on, however the check driver alarm often goes off in the seat next to mine. (wife sits there) The older I get the better driver she becomes.

    Farout
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