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I'd posted in February that my 2003 ES300 (with a little over 30k miles) suddenly died as I was driving it -- that is, the engine was still running & electrical system apparently working, but when i stepped on the gas it did nothing -- the engine didn't even rev, it was like the signal was not getting to the engine to give it gas. I could push the pedal to the floor, but it was useless. I coasted to a stop, had it towed to the dealer, where they replaced the -entire- ECM computer (under warranty, thank god.. this would be a multi-kilobuck repair otherwise.) They weren't particularly apologitic, but did say it was "very rare" for the computer to suffer this kind of failure.
Fast-forward to this morning, only a few months later. I was driving on I-95 in South Florida (if you've ever driven it, you know its like the Indy 500 but with people who really shouldn't be driving). As I was getting onto the highway (the on-ramp), again the same thing happened -- the gas pedal stopped responding to inputs. Thankfully, i was able to coast over to the shoulder & I left the car there to be towed (no way was I going to sit on the shoulder there! talk about a sitting duck..)
The car is being towed to the dealer now. I feel that this is a major safety issue, as I could easily have been killed. I no longer feel confident in the car -- even if they replace the computer again, how do I know this won't happen again? This car needs to go.
Who can I report this to, either at Lexus or the NHTSA? I suspect that the dealer that its going to (the one that replaced the computer) won't really care too much about my plight; they are the highest-volume Lexus dealer i the world, and customer service isn't their big strength.
I find all of this terribly disappointing; my 10 year old bucket-of-bolts Subaru is at this point a more reliable car than the Lexus, which was supposed to be a much more "Special" ride.
Any help would be appreciated.
The frustrating issue you are going to have to deal with is that your problem is intermittant. Whenever you can't repeat a problem on demand, it is difficult for any service tech to diagnose and repair the problem. It is difficult to prove to anyone that there is a problem.
Hopefully, Lexus will give you a new car, without requiring proof that you can repeat the symptom should you continue to have the problem and should Lexus be unable how to fix your car. Some posters on this forum have been given new cars, even though the new car did not alleviate their problems to the degree I'd expect a new car to alleviate yours.
If I were you, I'd "squawk" the problem in as many forums (NTHSA, Lexus customer service, various dealers) as you know about. Unfortunately, I don't see much alternative other than to continue to complain to the Lexus dealers, beginning with the one you purchased your vehicle from. Hopefully, one of their service departments can fix your car under warranty.
You can also take the "Lemon Law" route. Posters who have recieved new cars mostly did so in response to Lemon Law complaints.
Prior to the TSB implementation, i could repeat the problem at 40 mph by pulling back from the gas and then reapplying the gas quickly, as which time there would be delay before gas would get to the engine. Also, I'd have the problem intermittantly at other speeds, but mainly when trying to accelerate.
Now, I get intermittent shuddering at all speeds and the 40 mph problem is the same as before. The shuddering, although intermittent, is much more frequent than before I had the fix. And I don't have to be accelerating or decelerating to get the problem.
I have shuddering consistently when I come to a stop, regardless of the speed I am going just before beginning to slow for the stop. Also, I have some shuddering at highway speeds even when I am not accelerating.
I will post back if I find anything further. I am hoping that I will adapt my driving style to this "fixed" condition, like I did prior to having had the fix. If things get better, I'll let you all know, but as of right now, I'd advise against having the fix.
Click this
There is an immediately noticeable difference from the old program. I like it. No hesitations or shifting lags. The shifting rpms appear to be a bit higher than before especially when accelerating rapidly. Also, when going up a long steep grade, it has a tendency to downshift more easily and frequently than before. I slid the shifter to the left in 4th and it seemed to eliminate the downshift. Mileage appears to be unchanged at 20 around town and +25 on highway. I may buy the car at lease end after all!
Should I still be concerned that the transmission problem is unfixable?
I have 2 relatives that have an ES...
First relative has a 2003 ES - has transmission problems
Second relative has a 2004 ES - NO transmission problems.
Thanks for the help!
My car shifts better than prior to the upgrade, but not "perfect". By perfect I use my old '95 Toyota Avalon 4sp auto as a comparison. The ES still seems hesitant during stop and go, but doesn't jerk like it did prior to the upgrade. The shift points are clearly higher, meaning that when rapidly accelerating from a stop the engine will reach as high as 4000 rpm prior to shifting into 3rd and 4th. It seems that the engine races during these accelerations, but I don't mind that as much as the pre-upgrade "jerkiness". I feel that the transmission is still "learning" my driving style as it seems to be a little better now than when I first drove it after the upgrade. (Reason for hope).
On the other hand; while mine was being serviced, I drove a '05 ES 330 dealer loaner that had all the characteristic jerkiness, hesitation and "gear-seaking" behavior that mine did prior the the upgrade.
Read into my comments as you will.
Frankly, I really prefer driving my summer roadster ( Honda s2000 ). At least I understand this car when it "jerks" a little !!!
However, after I drove it a few hundred miles and it adapted to my driving style, it was much better. The hesitation is greatly improved (although not completely eliminated) and the hard shifting is almost gone.
I STILL do not think that this is the shifting you'd expect on a $35 K luxury car, but it's far, far better than it was before the upgrade - and will probably continue to improve as I get a few hundred more miles.
Definitely worth doing if you're unhappy with the shifting of your car.
The deal they offered me (over the phone) was $1000 off a new GS because I told them I didn't want another ES. I laughed at that offer and told them that I would fill out the paper work for the IL Lemon Law and we could handle it through the attorneys. (www.ag.state.il.us/consumers/lemonlaw.html) I also stated that I want to proceed with a face to face meeting with the LRR. It amazes me that they aren't willing to stand up and face their problems. They pitch customer service and satisfaction but shrug problems off by saying we can't help you. This is a safety issue with me more than the frustration that it happens everyday that I drive. Has anyone else been successful in getting their money back or getting the car traded in for a new one, :mad: at the cost that the car, at the time of purchase? My car is 10 months old and has 6200 miles on it. HELP!!!
-Ruby1
http://www.mycgiserver.com/~nonlinear/TSB.pdf
This is the situation, and my feelings after driving my '03ES for about 2000 miles after the latest ECM flash. I'm really not as happy as I was when it was first done.
It all comes down to a trade-off that the Lexus technician's did to try to improve the shifting quality.
Today, I was driving on a parkway for hours in stop & go traffic, and instead of the hesitation and lurching happening at about 5mph, it now happens at about 20mph......plus there is a slight clunking when decelerating(downshifting) that I never felt before this ECM flash. Also, I don't like the shift points when accelerating normally.....they're much too high, and I think the fuel economy has to suffer because of this higher engine RPM. I feel that the car will no longer achieve 'ULEV' status!
I don't think that Lexus can undo this last flash, and I reached a point where I'm ready to get rid of this car, even though I'm happy about everything else. This is my 3rd. ES and I was 100% pleased with my '91 and '94 models. The BIG problem I'm having is to find another car that is as good as a Lexus.
I know I have to calm down after this horrific traffic today, but the thought of having to live with this type of crappy performance in the future is driving me crazy!
Any suggestions without anybody telling me it's because of the electronic throttle, I'll be all ears.
Since almost everyone I talk to is pleased with the fix, it makes me wonder if it is something else they did during my 30,000 mile maintenance that is causing the problem Could it be that they did not adjust the idle correctly or somethig, I wonder? I don't like to say this is part of the transmission issue because I don't know and it could be misleading.
Oh, well I guess I will have to take it back to see if they can figure out what the issue is.
MINE IS NOT TRANSMISSION IT IS GAS FUEL MIXTURE .
MY DEALER SERVICE MGR TOLD ME THIS PROBLEM
HAS BEEN OCCURRING SINCE 2001 AND IS NOT ON THE BOARD TO REALLY FIX
IT UNTIL 2007 PROBABLY A NEW MODEL.
I EVEN RECEIVED THE SUPPOSED FIX AND 6/26/05 I HAD THE JOY OF ACTUALLY CHUGGING ACROSS AN INTERSECTION BEFORE THE THE FUEL CAUGHT UP WITH ACCELERATOR. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE ES 330 IS JUNK AND THOSE WHO SELL IT KNOWING IT HAS THIS PROBLEM ARE EXACTLY WHY THE CAR BUSINESS HAS THE STIGMA IT DOES.... WHORES.
Good luck.
If you go with the IS, you could always get the manual transmission - which would eliminate the problem entirely.
done, you must use premium gas for proper performance. Has anyone else been told this? With the price of gas going through the roof, I kind of like sticking with 87 octane!
I have noticed that my gas mileage seems to be done from an average of 20/21 to and average of 18/19. But this could be a result of my driving the car differently right now. I am trying to duplicate problem conditions to see how the car reacts. This, or course, means that I hit the gas a lot more, which does drag down the mileage. So far, I have only driven the car about 500 miles with the upgrade. I will post again after a few thousand and let you know how it is going.
Good luck with your car. I hope it works out for you.
Should I buy the 2005 ES330? Is the problem fixed? I just called a Lexus sales manager and he said, "...what transmission problem?" YIKES!!!! :mad:
Please let me know what you think. Thanks!
Go ahead and drive some 2005s. Mine has an inconsistent surge/lurch when traveling at low speeds, like below 10. That I can live with.
I must point out I am seldom in stop/go traffic.
In all honesty, there was no other car like it. I considered the G35, pretty on the exterior, yucky insides, didn't like the acura.
Good luck.
When I purchased my '94 SHO, the salesman told me that it only required 87 octane. When I read the owners manual, it said that premium gas was required. Obviously, I do not trust what any salesman tells me about a car. They are usually trying to make a sale and will say what ever needs to be said to make it.
As I understand it, the octane rating on gas is a measure of how much the gas can be compressed before it sponaneously ingites. The higher the number, the higher the gas can be compressed. Spontaneous ingition of gas is commonly referred to as knocking. The higher the compression ratio for the engine, the higher the required octane. Higher compression ratios are commonly used in engines to boost horsepower. If a lower octane is used, the engine is more likely to knock which, over time, can lead to damage to the engine.
Here is a link to a pretty easy to understand explanation of what octane is and how it works.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
I bought a 03 es300 in Feb of 2005 with 17k miles on it. It was the Dealer's loaner.
I asked for a copy of the service record and that showed 3 recalibrations had been
done on the powertrain. I have 21k on the car now and have had no noticable problem
with the transmission. My wife drives it to work daily and every other weekend we take
a trip 150 miles north of here to a place we have on a lake. Lots of hills and winding roads. No problems.
This makes me wonder what is going on. Perhaps my problem will show up later or
maybe since it was a Dealer loaner, they got most of the bugs out of the car before
they sold it to me.
One of lifes mysteries.
That was my situation ('03 ES 300 now with 28,000 mi on the clock).
I had the most recent TC004-03 firmware update done about 2700 miles ago.
It has helped with the stop and go "jerkiness" and hesitation. The shift points are higher ( higher rpm ) since the update. Some owners have described this as the car engine racing.
I agree with you that on pleasure trips at consistent highway speeds, the car operates flawlessly.
I do think that the upgrade confuses the computer. The average gas mileage figures that the computer showed before the upgrade were usually pretty accurate. Now, the computer seems to consistently show mileage 1/2 a mile or more per gallon less than actual.
All in all, I have been very pleased with the results of the upgrade. Before, I was ready to get rid of the car. Now, I think that I will own it for many years.