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Comments
I test drove a Camry and noticed the same hestiation so won't be going there. I think Acura is my next choice to check.
I can't fathom Toyota/Lexus' motivation, but suspect its engineering its cars to suite the EPA and DOE test cycles. It can't change ECM programming to improve drivability without incurring the U.S. government's wrath. Owners are therefore bafflegabbed and stonewalled. Unchecked, it will diminish Lexus’ reputation for quality and integrity.
I've had my Acura for almost a year. So far there have been no problems. The dealer has been very good, but all it has had to do is routine but expensive maintenance. There is no equivalent to the Lexus Owners' Club. Other than engineering and building a very good car, Acura makes no effort to have purchasers feel important or special. I think this is regrettable, but it's not my company.
Lexus owners can make themselves feel much better by looking in on the Mercedes, BMW and Audi forums. Their owners are really having problems, and they paid as much or more for their car!
I really bugs me whenever I hear a comment like this. I've owned both, of the same generation, and they are not alike at all inside or out. The ES is much superior all over.
Here's what Edmunds has to say about the relationship between the Lexus ES and the Toyota Camry.
"The history of the ES can be traced to Lexus' first year, 1990, when the ES 250 debuted. It was marketed as an "Executive Sedan," though we're pretty sure that executives saw it for what it was: a thinly veiled Toyota Camry with a price premium. Admittedly, the ES 250 was a stopgap plan for Lexus, and an improved ES 300 arrived in 1992. Though again based on a Camry platform, this one had much more distinctive styling, and remained popular for many years. The ES was last redesigned in 2002. The latest version is again similar to the Camry (also redone in 2002), though its appointments reflect the high levels of comfort, convenience and refinement that have become trademarks of Lexus luxury."
(http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/lexus/es330/100401983/researchlanding.html)
If the ES and Camry were less similar, if they didn't share power trains for example, the ES would be much more costly. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
My point is that for a premium price one should reasonably expect to receive a superior product and be afforded first class after sales service. This is not happening according to numerous correspondents here.
As far as Lexus' response to complaints of its transmission, yes, I too am stunned by it. I can't believe that they'd make it perform that way and strenuously hesitate to offer a "fix". I suspect that they simply meant the docile ES to have a transmission that expects a docile driver, but then why don't they admit that instead of blaming the driver? (As I see it, if you want performance, you're supposed to get an IS or GS.)
I have the previous generation ES, and the only problem is a delay most of the time when I press on the gas after lifting off -- it feels like waiting for a manual clutch to engage. Other than that, I have no problems and therefore cannot justify replacing this beast, and that really bugs me.
Counting down the days until our lease is over.
I have filed another complaint with Lexus's customer "service" department, and continue to get their standard stonewalling: assurances that they aim to satisfy, promises to look into the problem, promises that they will call me back, etc. And of course the phone never rings. What a joke.
I share the comments of others that it is disappointing that the major car reviewers -- even Consumer Reports! -- do not mention this transmission problem. It may not affect every ES330, but it clearly affects a lot of them, and even if it is 10% of all ES330s sold (or whatever percentage), it is clear from all of the posts on this site and many other Internet sites that it is prevalent and serious enough to warrant at least a passing mention. Even Edmunds can't be trusted to provide the unvarnished truth.
The ES330 is, of course, wonderful in many ways. The ride is comfortable, the gas mileage decent, the interior beautiful and functional. But that's not enough. Having a serious transmission problem and then stonewalling customers who bring it to their attention and demand a solution definitely isn't worthy of a car company with the tag line of "the passionate pursuit of perfection."
We may be a statistical blip and may be, to Toyota, an acceptable margin of error that doesn't make much impact on their fat profit margins, but I and many, many others will not go away.
Lexus/Toyota managers: if you are reading this, I can tell you that I am doing everything in my power to negatively affect your reputation. I tell anyone and everyone I know -- friends, family, business associates, neighbors -- about my experiences with this lousy car and my experiences with YOU. At least two people have chosen NOT to buy one of your cars based on my bad experiences with you. It is my hope and expectation that, at some point soon, you will wake up and take care of the multitude of problems you have created with this transmission.
I've called Lexus customer service to complain also. I just called on 9/6/05 and I'm still waiting for a call back. Looks like I will be waiting for a while.
What can we do? Is it possible to prepare a list of owners (VIN #) experiencing the same thing? Do you think Lexus cares? It wouldn't hurt to try something.
I was thinking of purchasing another Lexus..I'm I crazy!!!
Sounds like you need a new transmission or an individual vehicle repair.
Thanks for your help
I believe that the Lexus tranny issue has been going on for three or four years...what is happening here?
With that thought in mind has any one tried one of the various HP "boost" systems(***) that modify the IAT (Intake Air temperature) signal? These systems seem to falsify the IAT signal in a way that results in running a richer mixture than the optimum insofar as lower emissions levels are concerned.
Seemingly the same effect as using a higher octane in that the engine would be less likely to knock or ping.
***:
[url=http://www.hurricane-horsepower.com]http://www.hurricane-horsepower.com[/url]
Or search on Ebay or google for:
"progressive tuner"
Some months ago, I had a 2005 ES loaner for a day, and I made a point of looking for "transmission issues". I drove ~140 km and thought I noticed the transmission having trouble at times figuring out what gear to be in when I pushed. (Was that it?)But a month later, I had another 2005 ES loaner for a couple of hours, and the "transmission issues" were not on my mind, and after 20 km, I realised that I hadn't noticed any problems at all. The car was just so wonderfully smooth and quiet. Is this just an issue with some of them or do you need to push to notice?
1) slow down to about 10-15 mph then accelerate...you will probably notice about a 2 second delay after you accelerate and then the car with lurch forward and accelerate. This is very noticable in heavy stop and go traffic especially when the freeway backs up.
2)Get the car up to about 60 on the freeway the press the accelerator all the way to the floor as if you needed to pass something or get out of the way fast...you'll notice a good 2-3 second delay before the car accelerates at all.
The dealers are aware of this problem but lexus still considers it "Normal" so there is not much that can be done....I've been told to use premium gas but that seems to make things worse...I've had less hesitation with tanks of 87 octane.
Want my advice....get a new XLE V6 Camry....will still cost less than a used lexus, you get a full 3 yr warranty and the drivetrain works better
At this time I am quite sure that not every DBW V6/5-speed transaxle equipped Toyota/Lexus vehicle is prone to exhibiting the problem, maybe as few as 10%. But the problem is, seems to be, that even that 10% will not always replicate the problem reliably.
But even this ES (a 1999) has what you describe. It’s like it has a manual clutch that gets disengaged every time you let up on the gas. The next time you put your foot down, you almost always have to wait (up to only one second) for something to happen, and it feels just like a manual clutch engaging. And those few times when there is no delay, I’m caught by surprise.
I even remember test driving my first ES three years ago. I came to a familiar corner, hits the brakes, turned in, pressed the gas on exit, and there was nothing for a good second, and I wondered what was going on. Then, all of a sudden, the car just took off.
I still liked the car, so I bought one anyway, but that must’ve contributed to the fact that I’m much less aggressive now with the accelerator, and didn’t notice it on the new car unless I looked for it. I do remember one time with the long drive in the current ES where I pressed down and waited, and the transmission seemed like it went into one gear, decided against it, and then engaged another. That was very off-putting.
But I see this as Lexus’ way of making this car as smooth as possible, which is the goal of this model. (For smoothness, they want minimal engine braking, so they disengage the clutch as much and as quickly as possible the moment you let up.) They have two cars the same size, the ES and the GS, and if you want performance, you get the GS. But then they equipped and priced the two cars differently, and they’ve wound up with people who want performance (or responsiveness) but who can’t (or won’t) afford a GS.
The smart (and simple) thing for Lexus to do is simply add a switch, much like the adjustable suspension switch, that lets the driver decide how he wants the transmission to behave, and give up on this dumb notion of a “learning transmission”. They need to accept BMW’s finding that you can’t guess what the driver wants -- BMW even offers the driver 11 settings! Hey, if they want to compete with BMW, they need to think like BMW (or at least smarten up!).
Buuuuuuuut, it’s hard to give up on the brand. I can’t ignore what you’re all saying about the current ES, so I’m considering a used GS.
First of all, the Lexus ES is no BMW. Lexus never intended to compete with BMW with the FWD ES. The target demographic was 40 something white collar workers who make close to six figure salary who want to move up to something that is more luxurious than a V6 Camry. Judging by the sales figure, they have succeeded. Now, if you want a Lexus that drives like a BMW get the upcoming IS350. With a 306 HP engine and a six speed auto, that is one heck of a car. I am sure there will be absolutely no hesitation with that car
"Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"
Yes, Toyota/Lexus has acknowledged a problem *may* occur by issueing that TSB.
However, a TSB doesn't mean it's a universal problem affecting all of a given make/model.
The intent of a TSB is to advise a fix for a given symptom or condition--if it occurs.
A TSB does not indicate a "Problem" is designed into a given make/model, and it certainly doesn't mean that everyone who owns a given make or model can expect the condition to occur.
You also suggest a Lemon Law litigation after 4 visits to the dealer--right from the git go. Guns blazing isn't always the right approach.
Given that a fix is available if a problem occurs, plus--given this is the way DBW trannys feel not only on Toyota products but common to others as well--advising Lemon Law option straight away is premature.
I think the right advice would have been just to take it back and get the dealer to try again because switching to high test gasoline didn't get satisfaction. Perhaps try another dealer. Try contacting the manufacturer direct. See if it occurs in another unit of the same make and model.
Fixating on Lemon Law litigation could very easily turn out to be a disaster.
You did suggest two, but I believe it may have been wiser and more prudent for you to suggest other alternatives before pulling the trigger on Lemon Law.
This individual is a long way from a "last resort" alternative.
The initial TSB was available in the spring of 2003, was it not?
And does the TSB, in any form whatsoever, indicate a limited application, certain vin#'s, build date, etc?
Anyone wonder what the car rental agencies are doing about this?
And you're correct in that this TSB isn't limited to a specific time, application, etc.
But any TSB is well short of a recall as you know. Furthermore, any TSB is not in any way indicative of a systemic problem with an entire product line, in spite of inferences to the contrary by some.
All things considered though, I still think it's premature to jump into Lemon Law so quickly.
700 miles, one trip to a dealer, then go direct to Lemon Law? Unwise in my opinion.
Below is the link to the TSB as found on www.alldata.com for the Lexus ES330. I suggest you print this out and go back to your dealer or go to a new dealer.
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Lexus/1112342400000_1112770800000_TC004R-03/41.html
After every update, I've found that the problem went away - for about 500 miles. If Lexus would just go back to the default and disable the learning, I'd be happy.
There are some aspects of your personal driving habits that some of the newer vehicles adapt too, adjust certain parameters.
But every one of these learned traits goes through a BRAIN WIPE when the ignition is turned off.
How can it be any other way, otherwise the car rental companies would need a special procedure to follow each time a car was returned.
It is my understanding that within 60 seconds of when you start the car in motion the system has roughly categorized you into one of four driving styles/types. within the next 120 seconds it further resolves, refines, your driving style into one of sixteen categories.
Thereafter it keeps only a three minute memory of your activities and will revise your driving style/type again and again if necessary.
Now, having said that, there are certain parameters, unique to each car, and only to the car, that are "learned" on the fly. One of these being the idle air bypass control solenoid. Over time the car learns the proper PWM duty cycle for this solenoid based on the downstream feedback from the oxygen sensor and the fuel feed level required to maintain the factory designated engine idle speed.
The ES owes its smooth, elegant ride in part to its revised five-speed automatic Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i) that gives you smoother shifting and effortless acceleration. Improved grade logic holds the transmission in lower gear when going downhill, decreasing the amount of braking necessary so there's less brake wear
Could this be the reason for improved performance ?
What do u think WWest ?
That statement appears to be an oblique way of saying that the new transaxles exhibit more reluctance to upshifting during closed throttle coastdown circumstances.
Hopefully that will constitute a final fix for the engine/throttle hesitation symptom.
But I would guess that ther are not yet enough 2006 vehicles in the hands of owners to be able to say with certainty.
The fact that they continue to do this leads me to believe that the 2007 will not be any better without one of these parameters (power, gas mileage or size, or cost) being changed in an undesirable direction. Specifically, the problem will still be there if we keep the increased size, reduced gas mileage, increased power, and price of the 2006.
I realized that no amount of "reprogramming" is going to make this car "feel" like an old-style vehicle. So I am learning to live with it.
I don't use the "D" drive mode much. I put the car in 4th most of the time and pop into "D" when I want to engage the 5-speed at cruising speeds. I think that the car goes into overdrive much to soon, which feels like less power.
I use premium gas. Yeah, I know, it's expensive, but this car really wants it, and it does make a difference.
I don't use the AUTO mode for air conditioning. I think the AC system drains too much power. I rarely put the blower on high.
These 3 things have made my interactions with the car better. It's not a BMW or a Porsche. It's a comfortable car not a performance vehicle.