"Yeah, retard the timing and lose Hp, efficiency and basically waste gasoline. What an option, buy the cheaper gas and just more of it."
Actually, there isn't much if any difference between timing advance with 87 vs. 91 octane. I've datalogged both using OBDII software. My seat of the pants and the data suggests (although there aren't enough datapoints to tell for sure), that octane does matter for transitional events like during shifts and when you first press the accelerator. There isn't any difference between the two during WOT acceleration and at steady speed cruise, which explains why there doesn't seem to be a difference in observed mileage between the two either.
I have no complaints with mine. Admittedly, like most OEM tires (run-flats or not), their projected life expectancy isn't great. But I'm not one of those people who expects and demands 60,000 miles from a set of tires.
And cheer up-- at least you can replace these with conventional tires. Not so with the proprietary PAX system that non-AWD Odyssey Touring buyers get burdened with.
Based on what I've read in these forums, Toyota should probably get AWD buyers to sign a disclaimer acknowledging that 1) The van comes with no spare; 2) run-flat tires are expensive to replace; and 3) not every Gomer Pyle tire shop in every town in America stocks them.
"Missed the boat with 20.0 gallon? If it has great mileage you don't need much more. I agree bigger is better, but 'missed the boat' is not the right word... and if Toyota missed it, Honda missed it too with the Ody, which also have just 20.0 gallon."
My message was (an admittedly lame attempt at) a joke. .0 gallons of gas probably won't give you much peace of mind on long trips. Short ones, maybe...
Bottom line for those 04/05 Sienna owners who want to fuel up with regular. Send Toyota an email to get conformation that engine warrantee is not voided if regular gas is used. I doubt very highly that Toyota will consent to such practice in writing.
Like I said in my previous post, 99% of the time there is no difference, but for that 1% of the time you are doing no good. Sort of like a diet of junk food. Eventually it will catch up to you.
I've seen what preignition can do to an engine and it's not pretty.
The owner's manual very clearly states 87 octane is the minimum octane and is acceptable. 91 is mentioned for "improved performance." Knock sensors are there to prevent damage during that 1% of a time. The ECU pulls back timing to prevent pre-ignition. You aren't damaging your engine by using 87 octane.
Also, even if you religiously use "premium", you're using 87 octane at times because selling 87 octane as "premium" is far from unheard of by unscrupulous gas station owners.
Both Ody and Sienna use similar pre-ignition prevention systems. Actually both engine are designed to run on regular or premium. With premium both record an HP boost. Marketing exec's then decide how to promote their respective products. (HP ratings etc...)
I think the advertised capacity is 20 gallons, but it holds more than that. I get about 21 gallons in if I run it to the fuel light coming on, and once got 21.8 or .9 when I drove around for awhile with the light on.
The expert you need is a trustworhty experienced lawyer. Don't threaten. Don't communcate with the dealership by yourself. Get represetation. Does your state have a lemon law? If so, get a lawyer who has experience in invoking it.
Did you read the December Magazine of Car & Driver?
"This van had one curious, inexplicable anomaly: After 40,000 miles, its ability to accelerate has faded. 0-to-60 mph went from 7.4 seconds when new - to 8.1 seconds, 0-to-100 mph from 22.9 to 24.9; and the quarter-mile run was off by 0.5 seconds..."
Overall they like the van, despite a few shortcomings, like power sliding doors which runs extremely slow, and some other grips.
Can't find that article online, but is in the December issue "Long-Term test - Toyota Sienna XLE". (pg. 154)
Call me stupid, but I can't find the owner's manual on my Toyota Sienna. How do you close the rear winglet windows? The automatic windows buttons only work the windows of the doors (front & back), but no button for the rear. I have tried to close them manually, but can't manage to close them. Is there a trick?
All 2004 Sienna owners should contact their dealers regarding the following factory recalls: #40-I RADIATOR FAILURE, radiator needs to be repplaced ASAP. #40-H POWER STEERING HOSE LEAK, hose needs to be replaced
According to my service rep both of these should be performed ASAP
Living in northern NJ, I was thinking of replacing the BS Turanza EL 225/60/R17 tires with ones for better snow/ice traction. I have a Highlander for when its bad, so these tires can be all season. The only good tire that I can find on Tire Rack is the Goodyear Fortera HL in that size. Anyone use these tires and what is their opinion on traction, noise, wear?
I can't speak yet but I just ordered a set for my '01 MDX Touring after researching a number of sites and reading lots of posts around the net. Was tempted to stay with the Michelin Cross Terrains but wanted better traction & ride and everything I read indicated it would be better. They should be in next week and I am looking forward to giving them a nice test.
I received a letter from Toyota on 11/11/04. My 04 Sienna also needed radiator replacement, but the letter stated I had till 2007 to get the work done. I took it to the dealer today and had the radiator replaced. The power steering return line had to be ordered.
Does anybody know if you can get the extra middle seat aftermarket and it can be put into an xle?
Aren't their spots on the floor to move the end seat to the middle? They sure wouldn't advertise this because then no one would buy a reg. 8 passenger. Any ideas?
"Does anybody know if you can get the extra middle seat aftermarket and it can be put into an xle?"
No. The floor configuration on the 7 and 8 seat versions is different. You can't just buy the seat and "plug it in." An 8-seater XLE Limited is supposed to come out in the 05 model year (per numerous Toyota documents posted on the "big" Sienna website). I'm not sure if an 8 seater XLE is in the works or not.
According to Autosite.com, Sienna sales calendar ytd 2004 through end of October are 135,728 vs same period a year earlier of 78,231. Certainly a big increase, but not totally unexpected since most of 2003 sales would have been the older and underwhelming design.
Combined Chrysler T&C plus Dodge Caravan calendar ytd is 310,563 vs 305,665 for the same time period in 2003, showing that the stow and go feature has positively added some to their sales figures, or at least stemmed their downward trend.
Odyssey is down a few thousand, due to increased competition and of course their design was getting stale until the introduction of their 2005 redesign this fall, which hasn't been on the market long enough to positively impact their sales.
50,000 additional units sounds like a bunch of overtime! Toyota is riding pretty high in most markets right now. And it sounds like the Sienna is almost half the Indiana plant production:
"Toyota initially estimated the Princeton plant, which now builds the Tundra, Sequioa and Sienna, would employ 1,300 jobs and build 100,000 vehicles per year. The plant now directly employs 4,629 workers and produces 300,000 vehicles annually"
I will pick up my new Sienna XLE Tuesday and plan to only use 87 octane fuel even though premium is recommended.
My two most recent daily drivers (which I purchased new) both called for premium and I drove each 150K+ miles on 87 with no problems. The first was a 89 Taurus SHO. The second a 97 Avalon XLS that was just rear-ended by two inattentive drivers on the interstate and totalled. The only reason I'm in the market for new transportation.
In my experience, buying premium is a waste of money.
FYI: My XLE AWD knocks and pings with 87 octane. I know this doesn't cause any harm to the engine, but I'm a bit O/C, and the noise drives me crazy. I use premium.
There is a voluntary service campaign underway. Toyota's letter states that the failures occur under extreme cold. Call ahead as the dealer may need to order the parts
The owner's manual very clearly states 87 octane is the minimum required octane. Premium is recommended for "improved performance." You are not damaging your engine by using 87 octane.
If you're hearing audible pinging with 87, I'd bring it into the dealer. You shouldn't hear that with a properly functioning knock sensor, and I never hear any pinging with 87 octane.
Since I live at Bay Area, CA. The whether here is not very cold and not very hot. I will wait to do the recall job till it closes to 2007, thus I can save the cost to flush the power steering fluid and radiator fluid. My van is 2004 LE bought at 2003 August. What do you guys say?
Well, they probably didn't FLUSH the entire system, but I'm not sure how one replaces a radiator and power steering hose without changing those fluids.
My LE has tow prep package, thus it has heavy duty radiator. Does the recall use same radiator to replace normal radiator and heavy duty radiator? or differently?
My husband took our 2004 Sienna in on Friday for an oil change and the power steering recall. When I went to drive the vehicle a few hours later, I opened the door and was overwhelmed by the smell of gasoline or oil in the interior of the car. I could smell it from several feet away. We called the dealer, and they said it could be fumes sucked in from the engine because they may have had to clean the engine with a brake cleaner after doing the work. They suggested driving it around to burn off the smell. My husband has now driven it around for about 3-4 hours. The smell has diminished a lot, but it is still there. It is clearly not coming from the engine at this point as the interior smells even after the car has been sitting all night. This is extremely upseting to me as I am 8 months pregnant and will not get in a car that smells like that. At this point, we may be bringing the baby home in our Nissan Sentra.
We have called the dealer a second time because we noticed that the smell seemed to be concentrated around the pwr sliding door. They said that the door was probably lubricated as part or routine maintenance, but the lube they use doesn't normally smell. My husband has cleaned the door and door hinge and all the mats, but I still smell it. Does anyone have any idea what may have happened to my van, and what I can do about it? I am not interested in something to mask the smell because my concern is that this is unhealthly and masking the smell will not solve that.
I am wondering about the recalls (radiator and power steering as discussed on this forum). I have an XLE AWD manufactured in 2/04, purchased in 3/04, 6 month check up in 9/04. Nothing has been said to me or sent to me regarding any recalls. Also, when I go the maintenance guide on Edmunds.com it lists only 1 recall: Fuel System, Gasoline: Storage: Tank Assembly for a manufacture date from June 2003-July 2003. I checked for XLE FWD also to see if that made a difference, but there was still only the 1 recall listed. Why aren't these additional recalls posted, and will I receive a letter from Toyota if a recall pertains to my car? Should I call my servicing dealer? They are 75 miles away so I can't just pop in and ask. Thanks.
You can go to Alldata.com and the NHTSA.org and look at their recall databases. Sometimes our recall list is different from theirs (although supposedly we get ours from the NHTSA).
in the XLE Sienna??? Any answers are very much appreciated. I think we have finally come to an conclusion about buying the Honda vs Sienna and Sienna is probably going to be the winner!!! Have a chronic bad back and have made mistakes with buying cars before - found the seats not supportive enough. Had an oddessey, but I am still finding the 2005 seats are not that great, Sienna's are nice but the seat cushion does not come out too far. Has this been a problem for anyone or is it o.k. Am really looking forward to not having to drive this big SUV and go back to a van.
The next day after I posted 2351 above, I got the recall notice in the mail about the power steering. With my Subaru, I got a recall notice, drove 250 miles to have it taken care of, only to get home and a week later got a different recall. I didn't want this to happen again so I called both the Toyota number listed on the letter and my servicing dealer to ask about the radiator recall. They checked my VIN against some database and both said I was not subject to the radiator recall. So I drive to Medford Friday to have the power steering taken care of. They said they order the parts as appointments are scheduled. They do not keep them on hand so you cannot drop in. You have to make an appointment. It was 20 degrees out this AM so I will not drive until then. Nobody seemed to know what "extremely cold temperatures" meant.
Unfortunately, no. And this has been one of my (few) 'de-contenting' complaints about the new (2004+) Sienna. I've owned both models, and the previous generation had a large, illuminated ignition switch on the dash (where it belongs). The new model has a smaller and un-lit ignition incorporated into the steering column, just like a Chevy Cavalier.
Another de-contenting gripe: Vanity mirror(s) are much smaller and cheap-feeling than '03 model, with not-so-bright lights.
Otherwise, the van is superior to my '03 Sienna in every way. Despite these nit-piks, my '04 is a lot more van for the money than my '03 with $5K rebate.
I drove an 05 XLE yesterday and thought that the trans shifted normally, even when I was downshifting heavily, from a stop, from 30 mph and above, pushing the pedal to the floor each time. I guess they fixed the trans shifting issues from last year? Boy, did it ride and handle nice!
Well, I guess I'll have to double-check my '04. One thing's for sure: When the ignition is located on the column, the steering wheel blocks the view, so if it IS illuminated, I haven't noticed. I must lean around the wheel to see the keyhole every time I start the van. My previous (2003) Sienna had a large-diameter ignition on the dash, the circumference of which was illuminated. It had a nice, high-quality feel when you inserted the key, and could be seen from a seated position.
Comments
Actually, there isn't much if any difference between timing advance with 87 vs. 91 octane. I've datalogged both using OBDII software. My seat of the pants and the data suggests (although there aren't enough datapoints to tell for sure), that octane does matter for transitional events like during shifts and when you first press the accelerator. There isn't any difference between the two during WOT acceleration and at steady speed cruise, which explains why there doesn't seem to be a difference in observed mileage between the two either.
And cheer up-- at least you can replace these with conventional tires. Not so with the proprietary PAX system that non-AWD Odyssey Touring buyers get burdened with.
Based on what I've read in these forums, Toyota should probably get AWD buyers to sign a disclaimer acknowledging that 1) The van comes with no spare; 2) run-flat tires are expensive to replace; and 3) not every Gomer Pyle tire shop in every town in America stocks them.
My message was (an admittedly lame attempt at) a joke. .0 gallons of gas probably won't give you much peace of mind on long trips. Short ones, maybe...
J6P
Like I said in my previous post, 99% of the time there is no difference, but for that 1% of the time you are doing no good. Sort of like a diet of junk food. Eventually it will catch up to you.
I've seen what preignition can do to an engine and it's not pretty.
Also, even if you religiously use "premium", you're using 87 octane at times because selling 87 octane as "premium" is far from unheard of by unscrupulous gas station owners.
Top 10 Interiors for 2005
Steve, Host
"This van had one curious, inexplicable anomaly: After 40,000 miles, its ability to accelerate has faded. 0-to-60 mph went from 7.4 seconds when new - to 8.1 seconds, 0-to-100 mph from 22.9 to 24.9; and the quarter-mile run was off by 0.5 seconds..."
Overall they like the van, despite a few shortcomings, like power sliding doors which runs extremely slow, and some other grips.
Can't find that article online, but is in the December issue "Long-Term test - Toyota Sienna XLE". (pg. 154)
Thanks.
Mark
#40-I RADIATOR FAILURE, radiator needs to be repplaced ASAP.
#40-H POWER STEERING HOSE LEAK, hose needs to be replaced
According to my service rep both of these should be performed ASAP
Aren't their spots on the floor to move the end seat to the middle? They sure wouldn't advertise this because then no one would buy a reg. 8 passenger. Any ideas?
http://www.courier-journal.com/business/news2004/09/22/D1-minivan- s22-7373.html
No. The floor configuration on the 7 and 8 seat versions is different. You can't just buy the seat and "plug it in." An 8-seater XLE Limited is supposed to come out in the 05 model year (per numerous Toyota documents posted on the "big" Sienna website). I'm not sure if an 8 seater XLE is in the works or not.
Steve, Host
Combined Chrysler T&C plus Dodge Caravan calendar ytd is 310,563 vs 305,665 for the same time period in 2003, showing that the stow and go feature has positively added some to their sales figures, or at least stemmed their downward trend.
Odyssey is down a few thousand, due to increased competition and of course their design was getting stale until the introduction of their 2005 redesign this fall, which hasn't been on the market long enough to positively impact their sales.
"Toyota initially estimated the Princeton plant, which now builds the Tundra, Sequioa and Sienna, would employ 1,300 jobs and build 100,000 vehicles per year. The plant now directly employs 4,629 workers and produces 300,000 vehicles annually"
American International Automobile Dealers Association
Steve, Host
My two most recent daily drivers (which I purchased new) both called for premium and I drove each 150K+ miles on 87 with no problems. The first was a 89 Taurus SHO. The second a 97 Avalon XLS that was just rear-ended by two inattentive drivers on the interstate and totalled. The only reason I'm in the market for new transportation.
In my experience, buying premium is a waste of money.
Even a new Porsche 996 can use regular and not knock or ping according to Porsche.
If you're hearing audible pinging with 87, I'd bring it into the dealer. You shouldn't
hear that with a properly functioning knock sensor, and I never hear any pinging with 87 octane.
The following link will take you to the trailer.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/thepacifier.html
The parking maneuver at the end of the trailer probably voids the warranty.
Enjoy
We have called the dealer a second time because we noticed that the smell seemed to be concentrated around the pwr sliding door. They said that the door was probably lubricated as part or routine maintenance, but the lube they use doesn't normally smell. My husband has cleaned the door and door hinge and all the mats, but I still smell it. Does anyone have any idea what may have happened to my van, and what I can do about it? I am not interested in something to mask the smell because my concern is that this is unhealthly and masking the smell will not solve that.
I checked for XLE FWD also to see if that made a difference, but there was still only the 1 recall listed. Why aren't these additional recalls posted, and will I receive a letter from Toyota if a recall pertains to my car? Should I call my servicing dealer? They are 75 miles away so I can't just pop in and ask. Thanks.
Steve, Host
Another de-contenting gripe: Vanity mirror(s) are much smaller and cheap-feeling than '03 model, with not-so-bright lights.
Otherwise, the van is superior to my '03 Sienna in every way. Despite these nit-piks, my '04 is a lot more van for the money than my '03 with $5K rebate.
Mark
If so, the '04 models ARE illuminated for sure. Don't know about the '05 models.
Heywood, am I wrong?