I really like the Tundra but have to laugh at the "Have we gone too far" media campaign. Really disappointed by the lack of 4 wheel discs. From what I can tell even the $600 anti-lock option is still rear drum. 4 wheel discs are standard on the Sierra/Silverados. I will buy the Tundra as a light duty, car-like alternative to a full size truck or SUV. They really should drop the pretense of competing with the big 3 and focus on their real target market. "Have we gone too far?" No, but you are getting closer.
z71bill, That Silverado you love is STILL a Chevy. No matter how you try to spice it up...it will always be a Chevy. That is the problem with it.
thessick, As long as the Tundra stops in a shorter distance than all of the big three, does it really matter what kind of brakes it has? As long as it works, I wouldn't care if two giant Flintstone feet dropped out of the bottom of the Tundra when I step on the brake pedal.
While at the Mall Sunday we saw four different Tundras within 2 minutes. Please stop buying Tundras! I'm being threatened by the possibility of a stop light race with another Tundra, and I'll have no superiority over it like I do with the weak 3 trucks.
I promise not to bash your Tundra - at least on this post - so answer a question for me and please be honest. If any other Tundra owners want to answer that would be OK too!!
What I am trying to determine- is it the brand (Toyota Chevy whatever)that is so important to you? Are you comparing the trucks or the brands? I can understand if you are brand loyal - lots of people are.
If Chevy would have came out with the Tundra as its full size pick up for 2000 - I mean the exact truck - same options, choices (or lack of choices) dependability & price and Toyota would have produced the Silverado line up -again exact same truck except it would have the little globe thing instead of the bow tie. Which truck would you want???
I can honestly say I would be driving the Toyota Silverado. It was the truck itself that made my decision - not the brand.
Would you be driving the Chevy Tundra or the Toyota Silverado?
If Chevy made an exact duplicate of the Tundra I would not purchase one. I personally feel that GM still make inferior products. That is based solely on my past experiences with GM products. My Tundra is the first 'foreign' auto I have purchase and I love it.
I'm just kidding Bill. I don't seriously think your related to that backwoods dimwit. Your Chevy Tundra question is interesting but sort of faulty. If Chevy made the exact same truck and was a company I could depend on, just like Toyota, for their quality, dependability and engineering They certainly would have my business. If, however, It was the real chevy company, not the fantasy chevy co., building the Tundra....I'd pass. I don't think the siverado is a horrible truck, but the quality, consistency and dependability is lacking. The rest of my family buys chevys and fords. Everytime they have to replace their broken down heaps (at @ 80,000 and after numerous repairs)they swear they'll get a toyota next time. Unfortunately they're lured back to the domestics by the rebates and low interest rates. They save a few bucks up front while I get my money back by longevity and dependable service. My '78 2wd has 380,000 miles on it and I still haul 1500 lbs worth of hanggliders, pilots and their gear up the steep rugged mountain trails. When I was a kid I used drive it around the motocross track, racing the dirtbikes (that's some serious abuse, poor truck!)My friends '84 4x4 has 280,000 on it (he wants a new Tundra, but is waiting for his engine to finally quit and it shows no sign of giving up the ghost). So, to answer your question...yes to the real Toyota co. built silverado (after they redesigned the flaws out of it, of course), and no to the poorly built Chevy Tundra. Back to reality, I have the best of both worlds. The truck I like, built by a quality company. That's a big win-win for Tundra owners!
Several people have already answered your question but I will put mine response in also. Based on my experience with Chevys(several since 1982) and my experience with Toyotas, I would not buy the Tundra if it were made by Chevrolet. Quality and reliablitiy mean ALOT to me! I like the idea of a Toyota Silverado....now that would be a NICE truck. Imagine all those Silverado goodies actually working for YEARS! Oh well, this is not a perfect world. My Tundra(TOYOTA!) is pretty close.
Once again, bashing because the Tundra is an inferior truck. 2 engines offered? how many drive trains? suspensions? transmissions? rearends configurations does the Tundra come in? I read in a 4x4 mag that most Tundra buyers will be previous Tacoma owners who want a bit more space?? How much more space? The Tundra compares only with the lower models offered by GM/Ford/Dodge, that says it all.
Question I have is if Toyotas last so long, why aren't a few of you driving some of those 'great' older ones? (hehe!) See all the reports of shaking seats and steering wheel shimmys, vibrations, weak horns and crappy stereos in the other Tundra topics. No trailer hitch? Who could ask for anything more?
At least those few items that some Tundra owners have reported are still not nearly as bad as defective ABS brakes, transmission problems at 50k miles and other ailments that GM products (and other Big 3) are prone to. Face it, GM still makes poor quality products. You GM people just will not admit to it.
Give it up. You CAN'T win. GM quality is vastly inferior to Toyota. You don't really want to discuss vibrations and rattles do you? A weak horn and so so stereo is no reason to bash a vehicle(and since when did Chevy get stereos to write home about?). I can beat you in a stoplight race. I can stop faster than you. My ride is smoother than yours. I'm also sure my resale value will be greater than yours. Your vehicle WILL need more repairs than mine. My Tundra's fit and finish is better than yours. Why even bother to argue? You lose.
Yes you are right Toyotas do break. I had to change the dome light bulb in my 94 4-runner a couple of times, the first time I bought the bulb at a Lexus dealership (it was closer then the Toyota dealer) and you are right, the damn thing was expensive, cost me $3. But guess what auto parts stores carry stuff for Toyota's too. Got a 2 pack of bulbs for something like $1. Don't know about the cost of any other parts. But things like brake pads, batteries, oil filters, and air filters (why would anybody waste money on disposable filters when K&N is around? ) can be bought at auto parts stores as well, I know cause I've bought them there. As for rotors, plug wires and coils, I don't know if the replacement parts were OEM or not, but I always take my vehicles to whereever someone has a tuneup special. Guess what, they don't charge me anymore then they do for Chevy's Dodges or Fords. Sorry to disappoint you guy, but I've never had any mechanical failures in either of my other Toyotas, so I'll take your word that parts will cost a lot there.
It's not that I'm brand loyal, I've owned Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki motorcycles and I plan on buying a Suzuki. none of those brands has ever left me feeling pissed off about my purchase, unfortunatly Ford, Chevy and Chrysler have. I've made my decision to stick with Toyota for no other reason then they have proven themselves to me. And as far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters.
I think some people get caught up in hype and the gotta have syndrome. The reason vehicles have 4 wheel discs is for stopping power. No then, in a sports car were the weight distribuion is usually around 50/50, having rear discs makes a lot of sense. Now on a truck where you have a very lopsided distribution, what's the point. Now then, if you don't have that rediculous foot massager called ABS, you can prove this to yourself. Try some serious braking and see if the rear wheels don't lock up long before the front. What's the point of having overkill?
I planned on keeping my first 4-Runner for quite a while, but the one thing I didn't like about it was it didn't have shift on the fly 4WD, so I bought the 2nd one kinda stupid since I didn't even put it in 4WD the last couple years I owned it. What can I say, I'm an impulsive buyer. I planned on keeping that one for quite a while, but then I decided to get into motorcycle racing. Well, it's kind of hard to put a motorcycle in the back of a SUV. So is your Siverado the only Chevy you've ever owned?
LAST MONTH I PURCHSED A TOYOTA TUNDRA LIMITED 4X4. I HAVE 2000 MILES ON IT. SO FAR NO PROBLEMS. TRUCK IS AWESOME. YOU WON'T GO WRONG SIMPLY THE BEST NO MATTER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE MAY SAY.
Sounds like a good trip - 700 miles is a long way to go to ride your bike. I got rid of my dirt bike and got a Yamaha Virago 750, I wish I had went for the 1100.
Be honest how could your 5'10" 180# back seat passengers have been comfortable riding in the back of your Tundra for 10 hours. I am not even 5'8" and only weigh 175 and I could not ride back there for more than 10 minutes without feeling cramped. Do you think maybe they just didn't want to hurt your feeling? Or maybe they were in the bed.
Bought a new Tundra 4x4 Access Cab last month and have been using it to haul my sons 2 Quads up and down mountain ranges in Pa. If you can afford a truck that costs about $29000 fully loaded this is the one for you. It is the best riding, quietest, rugged truck you can buy. The 8 cylinder engine has power and the cabin is so quiet when on the highway you would think it is a car. If I were Chevy, Ford or Dodge, I would be nervous.
I assumed you were hauling dirt bikes - to get to some trails/hills. I live in Houston and it is exciting enough to cruise down I45 - I do get passed up by some crazy kids on sport bikes - I can be going 75-80mph and they sneek up on me from behind. I will admit a few times they scared the H_ll out of me. They must be going 120+ MPH. I am old enough to not do this anymore and still young enough to realize they are saying lets blow by this old geezer and scare the sh_t out of him. Even if I wanted to chase them down I couldn't My little 750 tops out at 112MPH. One of these days I will get the unwanted task of helping to scrap these kids off the pavement.
I guess you are right about the back seat of a Tundra being more comfortable that a sport bike. Also after riding a sport bike for a few hours it may actually feel good to sit up at a perfectly straight 90 degree angle.
I haven't been posting here very frequently, but last Saturday night I saw a spectacle that I could barely believe. It was one of the few days I didn't have my little Sony digital camera with me...
On the Manchester Expressway, next to the flightline of LAX International Airport, I was taking my normal route home from work and encountered dead-stopped traffic behind a thick black cloud of smoke. At first, I thought it might be a light commuter jet that somehow missed the runway and augered in. Keeping me from taking a shortcut through the emergency lane around the snarled traffic were a paramedic truck and a big Westchester F.D. hook and ladder rig racing to the scene.
After about ten minutes, the CHP and LAX airport police started moving traffic through the far left lane. Finally, it was my turn to get to see what the commotion was about...
.. on the right shoulder was the smoking remnants of a late-model Chevy 2500 4x4 with the cab burned down to the the shiny, sooty metal where it had been completely engulfed in flames just minutes before. The rear-end of the truck looked just fine, though.
I am happy to say that the driver wasn't at personal loss, as this Chevy was a company truck owned by a local plumbing company, I believe, telling by the bed frame rack full of pipes and so forth.
Oh, one of the few times I didn't have my camera, something like this has to happen. Sorry, no pictures for you all. I really regret it.
While passing by, I made sure my outside air vents were closed so as not to ruin my new truck smell with molten plastic fumes from the totalled Chevy on the side of the highway.
... Mebbe he was doin too much hawl, and it done broke?
So by these numbers then we can deduce that the Ford is the only true full size p/u since it has a larger cargo volume, is wider, has a longer and wider bed then Chevy, Toyota, or Dodge right? So Chevy, Dodge and Toyota are wanna be's. OK I accept that. Now then, what's your point?
Speed and acceleration are compelling features for sports cars. But for trucks? Well it counts there too, IF you are the leader, numero uno, big #1. A specialty truck, say the F150 Lightning, Syclone, Typhoon etc.
If the Tundra is quicker than a Ram, but slower than a Dakota R/T, what is proved? That light makes might? Not for trucks that work, in my opinion. But fine for you if you bought it to race other trucks, and don't mind losing some.
YOU did NOT answer my question concerning the written specs for a full size truck!!!! (see #122)
What do you not understand? Do you know what an analogy is?
You were the one who mentioned this "wanna be stuff".
The article states, "Enter Tundra. A pickup infinitesimally smaller than the Big Three on the outside and in the back seat, but in the same league for critical dimensions in the fron seat, cargo loading, payload, and the similar-size-engine towing capacity. Cleanly install a V-8 that puts others to shame, and, abracadabra, a real pickup."
Popular Mechanics chose Silverado over Tundra as best pickup. Doesn't mean diddly.
But "Cleanly install a V-8 that puts others to shame, and abracadabra, a real pickup." ???
A "real pickup" seen through the eyes of a "real car-magazine-editor." Doesn't mean diddly. And doesn't put the other engines to shame, in any case. Gets worse EPA gas mileage for city and highway driving compared to the big GM engine, propelling a bigger, heavier truck.
My analogies in #122 are very relavent and to the point.
For that matter, why didn't YOU answer the question, "what is the criteria necessary to be a full size truck"? Could it be that there is none? Could your perception be wrong? Typing sound-bites of the quote I mentioned in the article only prove that you are in denial that the Tundra is a real truck. Thinking your truck is best just because it's a few inches bigger means nothing to me. It's still a GM product!
FYI, the magazine was TRUCK TREND, not Motor Trend. Your good buddy Vince brought it up, I just responded to the rublue2 mentality.
Oh, no not Truck Trend. Then they must just like small trucks right?? NOT!!! Lets just get real and come to the realization that Toyota has finally started building a truck that can be all that we need. Most of the time I drive my truck it is empty and I am the only occupant in the vehicle. Therefor what is important to me is comfort, acceleration, smoothness, no squeaks, and good braking. Looks like the Tundra is my truck.
To reply to your query, about what makes a full size truck is pointless. We've been there. Done that. I take for granted it's full size for you.
I paid cash for my Silverado. I can drive anything I want. It's not an excuse to be impractical. I would consider a Toyota. But when I look at those thin seats and the bland cloth interior of the Tundra, I'm turned off. The T100 may have set the stage for this. A Red Tundra Limited w/leather (like Jcm1 saw) is appealing, but an even bigger waste of money. Whether you want to think of Tundra as the smallest full size, or the largest mid size makes no difference. But for me, I've had smaller. I wanted bigger. No regrets.
Quad, You are THE man!! No doubt about it. You better get out of here fast though. The first symptoms of Tundra Envy are unsolicited and irrelevant comments by domestic truck owners. You are displaying these symptoms! Doctors confirm this is tell-tale a sign of buyer's remorse(first stage of Tundra Envy). Since you can drive anything you want, maybe you should push that Chevy over to the local Toyota dealer...give them the Chevy and about $27,000 and get you a NICE truck. It may not be too late. Good luck.
I've been reading these posts strictly for entertainment when it struck me that dialogue between the Chevy and Toyota folks was like deja vu all over again. Sort of reminds me of my wife when she's pre-menstrual. It sure doesn't take too much to set her off, just like it doesn't take too much to set the Toyota guys off. Just an observation.
P.S. Toyota folks. Be secure in knowing that you probably have a darn good truck, and don't take some of the jabs so frigin personal!
Wow, I hit the hornets nest with one big stick! Toyota is comparing the Tundra to full size trucks, not me. Toyota set the stage by comparing the Tundra to full size trucks, thus setting the standard of comparison. Also compared the Tundra to all the lower end models of Ford/Dodge/GM. If you are into 0-60 times, lets through the Lighting, Cyclone or R/T into the picture and see how Tundra stands up? Like I posted earlier, I belive the Tundra is aimed more at the Dodge Dakota crowd. And it was MOTOR TREND I got those number from not TRUCK TREND. I believe all the hoopla will stop when Toyota quits comparing the Tundra to full size trucks of Ford/GM/Dodge.
I would like to answer your repeated question - Where is the definition of full size truck written - ....Look at the Toyota marketing literature...this is the only place you will find the Tundra called a true full size truck. Every other publication also says .. but the Tundra is much smaller than all the other full size trucks.
Whatever the Gods from Toyota say is full size is full size.......
The Tundra is a good mid-sized truck, but if you can not see that it is much smaller than Ford, Dodge & GM 1/2 ton trucks you need to get your eyes checked...
Jealous?? Nope, not of a truck that doesn't even come with a limited slip rearend, and not from a bunch of people who don't even know what a limited slip rearend is at that! It goes to show you what type of owner really buys the Tundra. I'm done, I have other fish to fry. By the way, I am an offroading type of person. I have been doint this for almost 17 years now. I know trucks pretty well I would say. The only thing Toyota has going for it is the locker rearend it puts on their Tacoma. Enjoy your truck, but please stay out of the mountains/trails.
What kind of comment is that? "A bunch of people that dont even know what a limited slip rear end is". Of course we do. It just may not be as important to some of us. All I can say is that I would indeed purchase my Tundra all over again. Personally I think it is much better even without the limited slip than anything the Big 3 puts out especially Chevy. GM products are the biggest pieces of junk made. See ya later....
I guess it's good we have a variety to choose from.Little,big,fast,slow,it would be strange world if everyone drove same kind,maby the color would be different.Competition keeps us all doing our best.Opinions are like elbows most people have two.Toyota has proven to a lot of folks that they build quality vehicles,sure have to me.All trucks come with owners manual,tells rated capacity,if you use it no problems.Don't overload get bigger truck,some times the big ones break.Have fun in your truck.Have a good day.
The basic principal of American Government is this....
"That government is best, which governs least."
For those of you who have forgotten, or never had you CIVICS classes, I'd suggest you revisit these fundamentals.
This is YOUR community! It is entirely a VOLUNTARY association. You are NOT required to respond to ANYTHING or ANYONE. If someone misbehaves, ignore them until they straighten up. This is called "norming" and a community "norms" itself. The alternative is regimentation.
If the misbehavior rises to the necessary level of egregious behavior, I can:
a.) delete the post,
b.) freeze the topic for a week to give everyone time to "cool off",.... or if necessary
c.) ask the Online Community Manager to "block" a user from the site. Including tracking the miscreant down to his/her ISP and requesting THEIR assistance in dealing with the problem.
The latter is only done for the most serious of infractions.
Don't like what someone says or how they say it? Don't respond!
Front Porch Philosopher SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Ok, please quit buying Tundras so that supply will go up and I will be able to get one in January at or below Invoice. Thank you for your support in this most urgent matter.
I just visited this forum as part of my consideration for a Dakota, Toyota, or Nissan P/U purchase (my V8 Explorer lease is up in December). I am a member and frequent poster to a Cobra owners web site, where things sometimes get lively, but always civil and usually useful.
Whats the deal here? I have found little that would serve someone who's looking for meaningful information against which a purchase decision could be made.
Just an observation from one who "popped in" looking for objective information. WHEW!!! Best be looking elsewhere.
Comments
"Have we gone too far?" No, but you are getting closer.
That Silverado you love is STILL a Chevy. No matter how you try to spice it up...it will always be a Chevy. That is the problem with it.
thessick,
As long as the Tundra stops in a shorter distance than all of the big three, does it really matter what kind of brakes it has? As long as it works, I wouldn't care if two giant Flintstone feet dropped out of the bottom of the Tundra when I step on the brake pedal.
What I am trying to determine- is it the brand (Toyota Chevy whatever)that is so important to you? Are you comparing the trucks or the brands? I can understand if you are brand loyal - lots of people are.
If Chevy would have came out with the Tundra as its full size pick up for 2000 - I mean the exact truck - same options, choices (or lack of choices) dependability & price and Toyota would have produced the Silverado line up -again exact same truck except it would have the little globe thing instead of the bow tie. Which truck would you want???
I can honestly say I would be driving the Toyota Silverado. It was the truck itself that made my decision - not the brand.
Would you be driving the Chevy Tundra or the Toyota Silverado?
have reported are still not nearly as bad as defective ABS brakes, transmission problems at 50k miles and other ailments that GM products (and other Big 3) are prone to. Face it, GM still makes poor quality products. You GM people just will not admit to it.
An ex-GM owner (and never will be again)
It's not that I'm brand loyal, I've owned Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki motorcycles and I plan on buying a Suzuki. none of those brands has ever left me feeling pissed off about my purchase, unfortunatly Ford, Chevy and Chrysler have. I've made my decision to stick with Toyota for no other reason then they have proven themselves to me. And as far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters.
By the way, I would buy a Ford before a Chevy.
Be honest how could your 5'10" 180# back seat passengers have been comfortable riding in the back of your Tundra for 10 hours. I am not even 5'8" and only weigh 175 and I could not ride back there for more than 10 minutes without feeling cramped. Do you think maybe they just didn't want to hurt your feeling? Or maybe they were in the bed.
Ever ridden a sportbike for 10 hours? Anything is comfortable after that. :-)
I imagine they weren't complaining because they want to go back, and of course want me to drive.
I guess you are right about the back seat of a Tundra being more comfortable that a sport bike. Also after riding a sport bike for a few hours it may actually feel good to sit up at a perfectly straight 90 degree angle.
On the Manchester Expressway, next to the flightline of LAX International Airport, I was taking my normal route home from work and encountered dead-stopped traffic behind a thick black cloud of smoke. At first, I thought it might be a light commuter jet that somehow missed the runway and augered in. Keeping me from taking a shortcut through the emergency lane around the snarled traffic were a paramedic truck and a big Westchester F.D. hook and ladder rig racing to the scene.
After about ten minutes, the CHP and LAX airport police started moving traffic through the far left lane. Finally, it was my turn to get to see what the commotion was about...
.. on the right shoulder was the smoking remnants of a late-model Chevy 2500 4x4 with the cab burned down to the the shiny, sooty metal where it had been completely engulfed in flames just minutes before. The rear-end of the truck looked just fine, though.
I am happy to say that the driver wasn't at personal loss, as this Chevy was a company truck owned by a local plumbing company, I believe, telling by the bed frame rack full of pipes and so forth.
Oh, one of the few times I didn't have my camera, something like this has to happen. Sorry, no pictures for you all. I really regret it.
While passing by, I made sure my outside air vents were closed so as not to ruin my new truck smell with molten plastic fumes from the totalled Chevy on the side of the highway.
... Mebbe he was doin too much hawl, and it done broke?
If the Tundra is quicker than a Ram, but slower than a Dakota R/T, what is proved? That light makes might? Not for trucks that work, in my opinion. But fine for you if you bought it to race other trucks, and don't mind losing some.
What do you not understand? Do you know what an analogy is?
You were the one who mentioned this "wanna be stuff".
The article states, "Enter Tundra. A pickup infinitesimally smaller than the Big Three on the outside and in the back seat, but in the same league for critical dimensions in the fron seat, cargo loading, payload, and the similar-size-engine towing capacity. Cleanly install a V-8 that puts others to shame, and, abracadabra, a real pickup."
Who did they chose as "America's Best Pickup"?
That is my point!!
But "Cleanly install a V-8 that puts others to shame, and abracadabra, a real pickup." ???
A "real pickup" seen through the eyes of a "real car-magazine-editor." Doesn't mean diddly.
And doesn't put the other engines to shame, in any case. Gets worse EPA gas mileage for city and highway driving compared to the big GM engine, propelling a bigger, heavier truck.
For that matter, why didn't YOU answer the question, "what is the criteria necessary to be a full size truck"? Could it be that there is none? Could your perception be wrong? Typing sound-bites of the quote I mentioned in the article only prove that you are in denial that the Tundra is a real truck. Thinking your truck is best just because it's a few inches bigger means nothing to me. It's still a GM product!
FYI, the magazine was TRUCK TREND, not Motor Trend. Your good buddy Vince brought it up, I just responded to the rublue2 mentality.
tp4unc, you are 100% right!!!!!!!!!!
I paid cash for my Silverado. I can drive anything I want. It's not an excuse to be impractical. I would consider a Toyota. But when I look at those thin seats and the bland cloth interior of the Tundra, I'm turned off. The T100 may have set the stage for this. A Red Tundra Limited w/leather (like Jcm1 saw) is appealing, but an even bigger waste of money. Whether you want to think of Tundra as the smallest full size, or the largest mid size makes no difference. But for me, I've had smaller. I wanted bigger. No regrets.
You are THE man!! No doubt about it. You better get out of here fast though. The first symptoms of Tundra Envy are unsolicited and irrelevant comments by domestic truck owners. You are displaying these symptoms! Doctors confirm this is tell-tale a sign of buyer's remorse(first stage of Tundra Envy). Since you can drive anything you want, maybe you should push that Chevy over to the local Toyota dealer...give them the Chevy and about $27,000 and get you a NICE truck. It may not be too late. Good luck.
Others,
I apologize for responding to Quad!
P.S. Toyota folks. Be secure in knowing that you probably have a darn good truck, and don't take some of the jabs so frigin personal!
You are correct. Maybe you shouldn't go away afterall. The disease will be good for you.
Whatever the Gods from Toyota say is full size is full size.......
The Tundra is a good mid-sized truck, but if you can not see that it is much smaller than Ford, Dodge & GM 1/2 ton trucks you need to get your eyes checked...
I'm done, I have other fish to fry. By the way, I am an offroading type of person. I have been doint this for almost 17 years now. I know trucks pretty well I would say. The only thing Toyota has going for it is the locker rearend it puts on their Tacoma. Enjoy your truck, but please stay out of the mountains/trails.
Big 3 puts out especially Chevy. GM products are the biggest pieces of junk made. See ya later....
"That government is best, which governs least."
For those of you who have forgotten, or never had you CIVICS classes, I'd suggest you revisit these fundamentals.
This is YOUR community! It is entirely a VOLUNTARY association. You are NOT required to respond to ANYTHING or ANYONE. If someone misbehaves, ignore them until they straighten up. This is called "norming" and a community "norms" itself. The alternative is regimentation.
If the misbehavior rises to the necessary level of egregious behavior, I can:
a.) delete the post,
b.) freeze the topic for a week to give everyone time to "cool off",.... or if necessary
c.) ask the Online Community Manager to "block" a user from the site. Including tracking the miscreant down to his/her ISP and requesting THEIR assistance in dealing with the problem.
The latter is only done for the most serious of infractions.
Don't like what someone says or how they say it?
Don't respond!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Whats the deal here? I have found little that would serve someone who's looking for meaningful information against which a purchase decision could be made.
Just an observation from one who "popped in" looking for objective information. WHEW!!! Best be looking elsewhere.
Respectfully,
and the bad attitude SOME of you are displaying here. I'd strongly suggest that you reread your participant's agreement regarding civil discourse!
This topic will remain frozen until 29 Sep 99.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host