Saab 9-2X

Kirstie_H · January 2004

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that they only showed the one style - probably the coolest-looking style - for the interior at the show. I would bet they've anticipated some of the responses from folks who have kids, and will offer other, more practical, seats.

jchan2 · January 2004

seats would be nice.

badjura · February 2004

Well, coming from Subaru, they should be durable anyway

harlequin1971 · February 2004

about the seats. Not that I know anything, but I would assume that in the least, you will have different "choices" in seat combinations depending on trims and exterior color choices. Personally, I would like a light metalic blue exterior with black leather and medium blue inserts

jchan2 · February 2004

a dark blue exterior on a tan leather interior (or gray)

harlequin1971 · February 2004

I love the dark blues as well..but in Phoenix, a dark car is a poor choice. My Black BMW with the weak AC lasted just over a year before I called it quits and sold it.

jchan2 · February 2004

work for me.

badjura · February 2004

Wonder if the seats are going to be any softer than in the Subie - felt like I was sitting on a wood bench last year when i was in the Outback...

jchan2 · February 2004

I don't know if they redesigned the seats.

badjura · February 2004

Picked this up off an auto show website: "Its like a Subaru Impreza with a little bit of plastic surgery. Sure, theres a Saab logo on the steering wheel, but the ignitions right next to that steering wheel. In fact, the entire interior is very Subie. Sure, its headlights look pretty similar to the rest of the current Saabs, but just above it, on the hood, theres an air scoop a la, dare I say, Subaru. And that scoop is there to help cool the turbo-charged 4-cylinder boxer engine. Oh yeah, and it has all wheel drive. Its a Subaru, through and through. Luckily, they dont seem to be charging too much of a premium; fully loaded, it should be around $25,000, and a non-turbo version should be about $20,000 "

6thbeatle · February 2004

yuck. the artist renderings were sexy, but the car in the metal is a real mixed bag affair, and one of the bags is the kind the airline flight attendant gives you...

badjura · February 2004

Bag of peanuts! mixed nuts? lol
Gonna have to see this in person, but I like the pics and video so far

jchan2 · February 2004

almond nuts when I fly.

ateixeira · February 2004

I've seen it in person and it looks good, plus it was getting a good amount of attention.

-juice

6thbeatle · February 2004

maybe it looks better in the metal. i guess i'll have to wait and see, but for now, it's crossed off my shopping list with a pencil.

jchan2 · February 2004

looks fine to me. (plus it'll be affordable and reliable)

badjura · February 2004

Anybody have any new insight?

jchan2 · February 2004

wait a few months- Saab will load us all down with all the info we would want!

sebastian1980 · February 2004

I will be waiting to see what Saab does with the interior. I saw the one they had here at the auto show and thought it looked pretty good. I have looked at the Imprezas before and really liked to car. I just hated the interior. It seemed really cheap. If Saab can make some improvements on this, I will certainly be very interested.

harlequin1971 · February 2004

take an Impreza and actually make the inside look good (luxurious) and you have a much more interesting car...thanks for thinking of us Saab.

vcjumper · February 2004

Centre console is forester parts, but seats look different from available Subarus.

ateixeira · February 2004

Yup, center console and climate control, plus the door panels look like those from the Forester.

The steering wheel is from the WRX STi, a nice 3 spoke design. Only the center cap differs.

-juice

6thbeatle · February 2004

i'm kinda disappointed by the interior. saab kept on saying it would be more upscale than the subie but i just don't see it yet. it still looks too black plasticky and moody in a bad way.

ateixeira · February 2004

I could not get inside; I've only seen pics.

Compared to the Impreza, the Forester's materials are softer and have more padding. It's not a night and day difference, but it is noticeable. They use a black, dimpled material that is soft to the touch, kind of like what Acura uses in the RSX.

-juice

sebastian1980 · February 2004

I peeked inside the one here. I am not too familiar with the forester, but the interior was way better than the impreza. I do agree that it is still not as good as it could be. I had hoped GM would have fished around in the Saab parts bin since the exterior is not going to be drastically different.

ateixeira · February 2004

The 9-2x will be unique in offering the all-weather package and the moonroof in the wagon. WRX still doesn't offer those. Some Subaru dealers are less than happy about that.

-juice

jchan2 · February 2004

I like it better than the WRX.

harlequin1971 · February 2004

...it is a Caddie/Hummer/Saab dealer

think they will have any clue how to market and sell the 9-2X?

I asked the guy when we could expect to see one,

"Well Saab's factory takes the whole month of August off, mandatory. Plan another 60 days for shipping, and I would guess the safe bet would be not until October."

I didn't have the desire to correct him that the 9-2X was being built in Japan, not Sweden (Finland) so, the month-off excuse was his first tip off that he didn't bother to let facts interurupt a good story....

Second bad taste was left when I looked at a 9-3 and noticed their $995 "Desert Protection" package (sealant/rustproofing) and a $775 "Security Chip" option.

Gimme a break. Why not just post the ADM and call it what it is, an attempt to suck a few more dollars out of the sheep.

I don't think they will be getting my business. And if they are the sales force for Phoenix's 9-2s, I think my patience may be rewarded with an upscale WRX with a better warranty at prices below the Subaru.

Saab, I hope you read this. That dealership is another in a long line of poor Saab network dealers. Still haven't found a Saab dealer that makes its sales force learn anything about the cars.

jchan2 · February 2004

Caddie/Hummer/Saab dealer will have fun trying to sell that 9-7X too!

epp1 · February 2004

...and not just because I'm an '02 Rex wagon owner. The auto show presentation from Saab's president and crew was very weak. All Saab did was rebadge a car they had nothing to do with in order to recruit prospective younger buyers.

Some may say shrewd on their part, but design you own dang car. The Suby vs. any other Saab are not comparable in any way - internals, performance parameters, intended use, etc. Like a punk rocker amongst a bunch of concert pianists.

Sure, they made it look more "Saab", which is fine, but call a spade a spade. They introduce it as a new model. Other than the minor aesthetics - lights, smoother hatch fairing, etc. - they've done nothing to the car but publicly take credit as though they've "designed" it in concert with spirit of Saab (puke).

Lame, lame, lame. I just hope they don't pimp and relabel the new Legacy GT as another "Saab" innovation.

I've never understood why people buy a Saab. Not particularly good looking (vs. a BMW, MB, Volvo, etc.), great performing (BMW) or unusually safe (vs. Volvo, MB). Very average in many categories except for the price, which is on the high side.

Sean

jchan2 · February 2004

Well, having never owned a Saab, I can't really comment on your comment, epp1, but I can say this. Saab owners have always been different. They appreciate the good traits about the car, the safety (it's second only to a Volvo or BMW) And most of all, they appreciate being different. Back, a long time ago BEFORE GM bought Saab, Saab cars were known as sporty cars (and they might still be, haven't driven a Saab in a long time)A Saab owner wants to be different from his collegues at the office who drive Mercedeses, BMWs, Volvos, Infinitis and Lexuses. He just plain wants to be different. And today, Saabs are cheaper than Volvos. The 9-3 Linear starts at a lower price than the S60, the 9-2X will start at a lower price than the S40, and the 9-5 is cheaper than an S80. So, Saab is now less expensive price wise.

ateixeira · March 2004

So Sean, can you tell us how you feel about Saabs? ;-)

They do have a couple of things in common: quirky reputation, niche manufacturer, and an aviation background.

-juice

ateixeira · March 2004

So Sean, can you tell us how you feel about Saabs? ;-)

They do have a couple of things in common: quirky reputation, niche manufacturer, and an aviation background.

-juice

anythngbutgm · March 2004

How about following it up with a slogan "Saab, the state of independence" Letsee, a 9-3 based on a Malibu, a future 9-7 based on a Trailblazer, and now a 9-2 based on s Subaru.

So much for independence...

ateixeira · March 2004

They also say "where all cars are turbocharged...", and I though they should only have offered the 9-2x in a turbo format.

Of course the 9-7 spoils that any way.

-juice

jchan2 · March 2004

I'm sure that slogan and ad campaign will be dropped with the introduction of the new 9-2X and 9-7X.

ateixeira · March 2004

Yeah, but I like to see brand consistency and character, and they're removing that. Pretty soon Saab will just be everyone else's stuff rebadged. That's a shame. Let the name signify something.

-juice

Kirstie_H · March 2004

I'm a little bummed about that too, juice. I love Saabs, and I love Subarus. But I like them both because of their unique styles. I feel like the Saab is just being taken away.

jchan2 · March 2004

I agree. I always preferred Saab over Volvo because there was something different about Saabs. Now, it'll be gone, and there's nothing left but a rebadged TrailBlazer, WRX and a 9-3 based off the Malibu. I hope Subaru stays different, because Saab is going away. (Unless the upcoming 9-3X is a real show stopper, otherwise, Saab will never be the same)

harlequin1971 · March 2004

Are we witnessing a point in time where the Saab brand is just that, a brand? A point in time where Saab enters the ranks of Mercury and Dodge as the "mimic" of big brother's other offerings?

The 9-3 may be based on the same platform as the Malibu, but how much is shared? A platform is just that, a starting block, right?

I am not crazy about the dilution of the Saab character, but then, the Saab I owned in 91-92 had too much character, bad character. As much as I loved that car, it was like asking Anna Nicole Smith to act to ask that car to stay in one piece.

I stopped by the local Hummer/Cadillac/Saab dealership and while I was completely unimpressed with the dealer, I was impressed with the 9-3 I sat in. In fact, I wanted to try the promotional dial in from the Saab, but the brain surgeons on the lot couldn't even point out which Saab was set up for the game. By their attitudes, I don't think they even cared...that is why Saab doesn't sell well in most of America, IMO...

I sold Saabs in 1991 (imagine that) for a dealer that really didn't care about them. It was the black sheep of the model floor. Seems almost every dealer I have ever visited (a limited scope to be sure) is similar, a group of salespeople who have barely taken the time to learn anything about the vehicles and would rather step you over to a different car then sell a Saab.

Are the previous generation 9-3s worth the price? I love the hatchback shape (bought the 9-3 lookalike Elantra GT) and the general Saab aesthetics. Maybe a 3year old Vector would be a better bet than a revamped 9-2? Still, I have to think that the 9-2, using Subaru running gear and internals, is going to be the most reliable vehicle ever sold under the Saab marque.

That to me is the good side of this trade off. Saab loses a piece of its soul and in trade gains a better list of vehicles to offer. One thing is for sure, if GM hadn't stepped in, we would be talking about how much we miss Saab, not how much we don't like them using other maker's cars as templates.

harlequin1971 · March 2004

in case Saab is reading:

I sat in the Saab 9-3 Aero. I loved it, the key fob, the leather inserts, the dash (always keep that airplane dash), the whole package looked very nice. The dealer was not helpful. No offer to test drive it, no real help at all. I am sure the OnStar game is used to track customer interests, but I had little option but to sit in a Hummer (which I abhore) or a fuddy Caddilac DeVille (which I would never buy) to play the game. That is messed up.

I have driven every generation of Saab 9-3(900)s since the '86 Saab 900S I owned. I left that dealer quite unhappy with the experience. Had me thinking that I might rather buy the Subaru from the dealer down the street then buy the 9-2X from those clowns.

Just one guy's experience...but it is a shame. Maybe a spin around the block might have had me lusting for the 9-3 and upcoming 9-2...now, it is just a bad taste in my mouth that has me reconsidering the Mustang, the Audi A3, and the BMW 1-series offerings.

ateixeira · March 2004

It's funny how we feel, just keep in mind Saab just had a record year in 2003. What do we know, eh?

GM owns something like 22% of FHI, Subaru's parent company. But Subaru has stayed independent. They're giving GM some WRXs to sell, and borrowed an Opel minivan to sell in Japan as the Traviq.

But...they refused to use a GM platform for their new 7 seater. So they are at least standing up to GM. I bet GM wanted them to sell yet another TrailBlazer/Ascender/GMC/Buick/Olds/9-7x clone.

Subaru won that fight. Let's see if they can keep doing that.

-juice

badjura · March 2004

I guess when it comes down to it most buyers either don't know or don't care who is making what. Those type of folk don't read or contibute to these boards. A slick marketing campaign could sell a whole lot of 9-2's...

jchan2 · March 2004

Having a Saab version of the upcoming Subaru crossover would not be a bad thing, if Saab put enough of its unique DNA into it. The dealership atmosphere sometimes has a lot to do with car sales. I have never been down to the local Saab dealer, but I will, someday, just to see how the sales force holds up. In fact, I sold my old car to the Saab dealer manager's son. Small world, eh?

harlequin1971 · March 2004

I doubt many parts are shared between the Malibu and the Saab 9-3...that is a point I was making, in a rounded way.

They do use the same platform, but then, so does the Mitsubishi Lancer and the Lancer Evolution.

So does the Impreza and the Impreza WRX STi.

Both are the same "model" bnut about as varied a take on sameness as you can get. Saab still can do their thing with a GM platform. In fact, they have been better able to do their thing since GM took over, seeing that the monies can be spent on things other than platforms.

Figure a "platform" needs to sell in the millions to pay back the R&D costs, etc...and it becomes clear why more and more companies want to share platforms, engines, suspensions, transmissions.

But, when we get to the current 9-2X that is coming, it is clearly the Mercury-esque clone of a Subaru model...that is sad...but I will save most of my judgement until the next generation WRXs and 9-2s come out...then we will see if they are twins, or just merely brothers from the same family. Meanwhile, a pretty WRX is still one heck of a car, whatever tag is on the hood, and far better to wear a Saab tag than a Chevy one, IMHO.

jchan2 · March 2004

I agree. Saab has been able to do much more with the Epsilon platform than with whatever GM gave them in the past. I do think the next 9-2X will be designed mostly by Saab though.

harlequin1971 · March 2004

When they came into the US market, their cars used Japanese engines and trannies (bad ones) and borrowed designs from the scrap floors of other manufacturers...

Even today, Hyundais are little more than knock-offs of more expensive cars. They now make their own engines and trannies, but those engines and trannies are not the world leaders in economy or power.

Hyundai's large cars look like Jaguars.
Hyundai's Elantra GT looks like a slightly smaller 9-3 (previous generation).
The Tibby looks like a Ferrari merged with a Mustang.
The Santa Fe looks like a CRV merged with a RX300.

Does that make Hyundai a bad maker, or bad cars? No, I don't think so...derivative styling and reverse engineering helped them gain a foothold and build momentum. We haven't seen the best from Hyundai yet...that is still to come.

I think that as long as Saab is given the chance to remain different, we will still see a company that makes a car for the "other" guy...the one who isn't happy to just buy a 3-series or an Accord and be done with it.

epp1 · March 2004

No analogies can be drawn here - it is the proverbial apple versus the orange. Hyundai is what it is - a valued priced imitator of successful brands. They take bits and pieces of what has worked for others, put them in a blender and voila - a Hyundai. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think they make some attractive cars at very good prices.

That said, they do not market Hyundai "innovation", "culture" or "independence" a la Saab. That costs money - marketing, engineers, R&D, etc. It is the lack of all this at Hyundai that lets them be such a value.

Saab can have all the "other" buyers they want. Just calling them out for purporting to be something they are not in the context of the 9-2x. If they would have said "...and for 2004 we rebadged the WRX to attract younger buyers into the Saab-fold...", then fine by me. However, they market it as though they designed it in intense collaboration with FHI when all they really did is just buy some different sheet metal and seating surfaces...guts are pure Suby.

I stand by my original thesis - the 9-2x is extraordinarily lame.

Sean

ateixeira · March 2004

I think if Saab had just moved the key itself, a lot more people would have bought the idea that it was a Saab.

-juice

harlequin1971 · March 2004

I stand by my original thesis - the 9-2x is extraordinarily lame.

True, but can you write a real script for Saab that doesn't make them sound like they just re-skinned a WRX?

No one wants to hear that. Not the dealers, not the people at Subaru and certainly not the buying public. Saab shouldn't bury too much credit into the "all-new" 9-2X...but they do have to act like it is theirs...because, it is theirs.

I just hope that most people think like you, then I can be patient and snag a dressy WRX for pennies when the resale doesn't support the model after release...getting a 1-year old 9-2X at 75% MSRP sounds really good to me right now.

Saab 9-2X

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