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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?
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Comments
Why, because its got a small trunk?
A V8/Magnaride SRX (which I have also driven) is confidence inspring on any road, be it straight or twisty. The STS should be even better, given its lower center of gravity.
The new Caddys have really got it nailed when it comes to the ride/handing compromise.
These were corners I'd expect a true sports sedan to handle without a quibble. It couldn't handle them because it's not a sports sedan.
The car was shown at speed with and without the ESP functioning on a test track. Likewise the car was shown on some twisty public roads with narration that compared the car with BMW and Audi (the bimmer named dropped, 7 series, the Audi name A8).
The car "journalists" often remark about these Germans as Premium or Luxury Sports Sedans.
The comparison to cars at this price point was said something like this, "if you weren't told, you might consider this 300C to be in a much more expensive class of cars -- it handles THAT good!" [sic]
I KNOW this must pain many of us who have been thinking it has to be a Bimmer or Audi or even a new STS to be able to be considered "in this class."
It would seem that the comparison between a fully decked STS and 300C is all but inevitable. The recent test of a 300C and a Pontiac and a Ford (V8 comparo) had the 300C in a class of its own -- in this test. The first thing that sprang to mind was "how would the 300C do against the STS." If the 300C comes in second -- as one would imagine, hope even, perhaps -- it will still win at a $20K price advantage.
The SRT-8 may be rough and tumble -- just makes me wonder how Chryco did it or where the $20K extra is in the STS.
Despite all this, I want the STS to succeed -- currently, it will not get my vote, my $. I think the A6, the RL and yes, the lowly 300C make a very compelling case all for some $10K to $20K less.
however I really need a trunk that will transport
two full golf bags. Being retired, my wife and I
do travel and golf. I am now concerned about the
trunk space. I contacted Cadillac and they assured me that I would have no problem transporting two golf bags in the trunk. Oh well,
I should be able to see one soon.
Plus, I saw a Bunch of them (300 C) at Thrifty Car Rental!. There is no way I am driving a common Rental for 5 years which I paid $40 K plus for.
You bet the STS will never fill Thrifty parking lots with stripped down versions. Which will be sold after 7 months at the annual discout sale at the local stadium.
Over 3300 have been built so far.
I am not certain that the car rental fleet argument is convincing, but I do understand the sentiment. The Cadillac interior, above, wins hands down. The exterior shots, for me, are not compelling one way or the other.
Perhaps, again -- for me, the key issue is that the option packages do not permit one to choose his/her groupings.
Perhaps if I could order the car with magnaride, sat nav and AWD and not have to take the kitchen sink, I would feel more inclined to consider one of these new STS's. My recent test drive of an SRX has certainly made me have respect for the brand -- perhaps, perhaps the marketing approach vis a vis the option packages has just thrown me for a loop.
I subscribe to Cargo magazine and the STS is compared with the new Audi A6. But, the thing is, I can equip an A6 like I want it for $51,550 and it has AWD -- I can only seem to get the STS with AWD if I also accept about $10,000 of other options.
Having said (explained or qualifed) all this, I still think there will be a comparison test in at least one or more US Auto Magazine between the STS and 300C.
It's just a hunch -- I could be wrong (and often am).
It's just a hunch -- I could be wrong (and often am).
That will happen. In an attempt to label them 'domestics', yet they are world class sedans
'Joe sixpack'does not know that. They see a rental; they think it’s a rental.
I have been put into Buicks and Toyotas and some really low end sub compacts too when I needed a car and few were left. Once or twice I had some very nice SUV's offered by -- ENTERPRISE! for Pete's sake.
What about a 300 being in a fleet rental somehow makes it "unworthy?"
Now, I read my words and I think somehow I am unintentionally "dissing" the Cadillac. And, I don't mean to. I, as some of you know who have read my postings, have had over 2 dozen Audis, including an A8. I have enjoyed these cars because I felt they were "high value" German sedans. As I, for once, decided to "broaden my horizons" by looking beyond Germany and beyond Audi, I have test driven several BMW's, Volvo's, Mercedes', Audi's, Acura's and even a Cadillac SRX. All the cars I drove were between $37 and $50+K -- my current car was just south of $50K -- an Audi allroad.
I am desperately trying to be "open minded" -- I will drive the Acura RL, the Audi A6 and the AWD Chrysler 300C -- these cars will range in price from $40K to south of $52K.
The criteria -- for me -- include AWD and ESP or its equivalent. Certain other premium/sporty/luxury features also are at the top of my list of "must haves."
The STS, WAS (past tense) high on my list. I read with great interest and anticipation about the STS. Yet, when I configured the car as I would want it and checked off the AWD option -- POW! the price shot up above $60K. My Audi A8 was, before discount, over $71K. I ask myself, "where is the VALUE" in the STS at nearly $62K -- even though I have no objection to the price (mostly) with all the gimcracks and do-dads that you can get on the car. I want to customize my STS or 300C or A6 or RL -- or not have to pay an arm and a leg for stuff that I may not use or benefit from. The RL is almost in the same league as the Cadillac insofar as the RL "makes" you get it with the kitchen sink.
This is an issue of wanting the car equipped as I want it, not limited to an "option package" which although perhaps fairly priced, has features that I don't really want even if they are gimmies.
I am NOT suggesting that I think the Chryco car is "as good as" the Cadillac. I am merely suggesting to GM (who perhaps monitors these blogs) that the customer should be able to "cherry pick" the features and options in a "more granular" fashion.
Finally, the 300C by all accounts is NOT a bad car.
My bias--thus far--would appear to be: Audi A6, Acura RL and a distant third the 300C followed by the STS (because of its apparently inflexible configurations).
I intend to test drive all three of these cars, thus far I have only had the opportunity to sit in a new A6.
wheel compared to my 01 Seville. I opened the trunk and was very disappointed. Car was too much
a CTS for the price. After waiting all year to see and drive the car, I was disappointed overall. Sitting on the lot was a 04 Seville, loaded. Has everything the 05 STS has including
more room all around. I now own it and feel good
about my decision.
The loaded STS is $9K less than an Audi A8.... I believe you just asked and answered the value question.
Any complaints about the CTS/SRX interiors don't apply here... this thing is really nice inside. It had the aluminum trim, very tastefully done. Controls are very straightforward - no Euro technofoolery here. Seats are nicely bolstered and adjust every which way, including lumbar.
Don't need a key to start it, just walk up, door unlocks. Put your foot on the brake and push a button, it starts. Very trick.
The STS does drive like a big CTS and that's good. They're got the ride/handling compromise nailed again. It's nimble for a fairly big car without a ride penalty.... we got on a curvy road and I was flinging it around. I did try the AutoStick, not sure I'd ever use it much as the automatic is very good.
The trunk is not really wide but is deep with a very low opening so little lifting is required to put things in. It's not Town Car big, but it's not small, either.
Bottom line, this is one of the best cars I've ever test driven and this was a base STS. The V8/AWD/Magnaride ones have got to be fantastic.
Setting the whole rental car issue aside, however, the fact remains that the Cadillac STS will have more "prestige" than the 300C. That a base 300 can be had for $24K prevents even a fully loaded, ~$40K AWD 300C from competing with the cachet a base STS will carry.
Having said that, I really like both vehicles, and hope the STS is as successful for Cadillac as the 300 has been for Chrysler.
-- Mark
I saw my first V8 this PM - at my local dealer.
The Sticker shows 17 / 26.
- Ray
Moderately impressed with the 26 . . .
improvement. Inside room, trunk space, more choices on options leading to AWD. As a loyal Cadillac owner, I was a little disappointed in the overall vehicle.
-Paul
1SE
Coming from: Most recently = 12,000 miles in a 2003 Lincoln LS V8 Sport – 3.9L / 280 HP V8 w/ 5 speed auto-manual and similar weight.
I drove it for about 15 miles – over very familiar streets and a stretch of Interstate near where I live.
First, since this was a 1SE with no other options (only 2 V8 STSs that my closest dealer has received were identical except for color.) and if I purchased one, it will likely be a 1SG, with the “Performance Handling Package” = Michelin P255/45R18 Pilot Sport (Sport Package) on 8” wide rims = Free Flow RPO: QAF.
So - I tried to focused on the items / attributes that would likely be very similar on a 1SG. And not on things that would be changed.
Trans. – smooth up and downshifts. Somewhat better shift quality than I have now. No odd behavior there, except . . .
In a test, I left it in the Manual Gate, in 5th gear, when coming to a full stop. It still displayed M5 – but when I pulled away, it had clearly, really put itself back into full automatic mode? Display stayed the same. Seems very odd.
I heard sliding noises (apparently coming from the 2 / 4 intersecting slide cover pieces that keep anything from falling down into the console shift mechanism??) on every movement of the lever forward or back for a ‘manual’ shift. Perhaps an adjustment could fix this? (Mine has always been silent.)
Ride without MagnaRide – very similar to my 2003 Lincoln LS8 Sport. Not bad, but not as smooth over patched asphalt as I had hoped. But again, I am waiting for 1 with MagnaRide (1SG or 1SF, sunroof, etc.) to drive for comparison. I am hoping that the MagnaRide will allow an STS with the 18” wheels to ride at least as well as my LS on 17s.
Engine – Very quiet. Too quiet for my taste – Actually, not the engine, but rather the dual exhaust is too quiet for me. I prefer to hear at least some of that unique V8 heterodyne beat. I’d expect to either replace the rear mufflers with something like MagnaFlows or have a full ‘CatBack’ system like Corsa’s put on shortly after purchase. But that’s just me.
Perhaps someone can help me here –
My understanding of optional / available axle ratios is:
V-6: 3.42.
V-8: 2.73, 3.23, 3.42.
AWD V-8: 3.23 only.
The brochure shows the 3.42 as included with the 1SG. Does this mean that all other (non-1SG) V8 STSs coming with the 2.73? Or at least all ‘V8 Base’ and 1SEs?
This would potentially explain the relatively high EPA highway number of 26 – and the fact that many who have driven the news STS state that it does not feel like 320 hp / sub-6 sec. 0-60. I would have to agree, the acceleration (both ‘off the line’ and highway merge) was not what I had expected.
That 2.73 ratio would take away substantial acceleration – but allow low rpm at cruise. (2.73 to 3.42 = approx. 20% less torque multiplication!!!!) Particularly if 1SG is limited to a very small percentage of total V8 production, perhaps that allows a higher (weighted) EPA average? Will the EPA ratings listed on a 1SG be different than other V8s? Has anyone seen a 1SG sticker? Interesting. . .
My dealer notified me, via email after I left, that he expects a 1SG this Friday. Perhaps I can answer a few of my own questions, if it actually arrives on schedule.
Interesting drive.
- Ray
STS V8 is still on my ‘short list’ for whenever I feel that my LS needs replacement . . .
Could you have a go at describing the 'roominess' of the drivers seat, and any thoughts on the ergonomics? Much thanks.
- Gene
Still waiting to find out what Ray is still waiting to find out........
1) Seats were comfortable; ergonomics were great. The car is a beauty.
2) The car rode a little harsher than expected (comparing it to the E-320).
3) The steering was not as direct as I would have expected. The car seemed to wander requiring numerous steering corrections (unlike BMW's 3 series).
4) And the engine didn't seem to have the power of an American V-8. Will drive the V-6 next time.
5) I discovered that the V-8 has a higher EPA highway rating than the V-6! This may be due to the gear ratios.......
Well, the different final drive gear (1SF = 3.23 vs. 1SE = 2.73 = approx. 15 - 18% more “mechanical advantage”) makes this a MUCH more responsive and sporty feeling vehicle. It was immediately noticeable.
This change is equal to something over half a typical ‘gear step’. Meaning: In 3rd, with 3.23, a 1SF would pull almost like a 1SE does in 2nd with 2.73. Etc. Almost. Point being that I do not claim to have a precisely calibrated “butt dyno” – but the difference in acceleration available was immediately apparent to me. With this ratio, the STS V8 now truly feels the way that I expected - from a vehicle where published tests indicate a sub- 6 second 0-60 and low 14s quarter.
(My current Lincoln LS V8 has been independently established as capable of a mid-6 second 0-60 and 14.7-ish quarter.)
I would HIGHLY recommend that anyone looking for acceleration as part of the performance equation at least drive a 1SF or 1SG before deciding on a 1SE – or deciding to purchase a different vehicle. It was that dramatic a difference, to me!
Other observations.
MagnaRide: The tire pressures (according to the monitoring system) were 37 to 41 cold. And with these pressures, it rode approx. like my LS with 34. Good, but not great. Since my LS also has 50 series Michelins – and more ride biased than handling biased - I had expected a bit better. The Michelins (oddly, 255 / 45s on the rear of the 1SF) chosen are clearly not ultimate street handling tires like the QAF Pilot Sports would be.
Sunroof: Obviously, the 1SE did not have one. The 1SF w/roof appears to have just enough clearance for me. Just. And I am only 6’ even. The wind noise from the roof in the full ‘vent’ position was well managed and quite reasonable.
Indicated RPM at 60 approx. 2050-2100 at 70 approx. 2300. It was, I’ll admit, difficult to obtain steady readings in the 5 or 6 miles I drove on the busy Atlanta area Interstate this AM. I was also unable to obtain a reasonably accurate instant MPG reading on the Driver Info. Center due to constant traffic. Oh, well.
The front seats felt a bit odd to me. I felt like I was sitting with the center section too far forward? Or the sides were not far enough forward – to provide me with lateral support. I made certain that the lumbar support was as far back as possible. Cooled seats worked well.
Odd that even at the $58K level the STS does not offer adjustable foot pedals.
I guess that’s all.
I find, in 2 brief test drives, the STS in V8 / 1SF form to be a very attractive car.
Just my $0.02.
- Ray
Ready to try a Jaguar S-Type R (much more HP!!) next . . .
I do not know how 3 configurations with THAT large a change in final drive ratio could all achieve 26 MPG on the highway EPA mileage test.
And the 24 number for the V6 (3.42 ratio) throws even more interesting light on the situation.
But in this case, I don’t know exactly what all the (legal?) issues are so far as publishing such information on the window sticker.
- Ray
Remembering that the AWD version (3.23 ratio) has achieved (?) a ‘gas guzzler’ rating . . .
Performance is a major factor for me - but the compromises made to achieve thrilling acceleration in the 300C SRT-8 may be just a bit too extreme for me.
19 MPG highway is a bit less than I'd hoped for as well.
But everyone has their own comfort level with the compromises involved. Some may love the 1SE version of the STS.
- Ray
Still in favor of the HP 'race' . . .
-Paul
And BTW, Cadillac quality is more than a match for Lexus, these newer cars are built like no other American cars before, and it shows.
The LS430 appeals to slow old people who would otherwise buy a DTS or Town Car, IMO.
And in style, unlike the 430 which is too busy trying to be a Mercedes, the STS cannot be mistaken for anything other than a Cadillac, and in this market, at this price point, this advantage cannot be understated.
Good looking car. 50.3K sticker with the low end option. It did not have moon roof, which I always buy. To get this I would have to move up to the second option that added $11K to the base price of $47K and change. Only other option was to get a local shop to install at $1500, don't like that.
Dealer said they had big orders on the way with no real backlog to fill. Said they are ready to deal now. Left me with the impression that I could get the car for $45K. Think I want to look at the new Acura RL coming out in mid Oct for same price. Resale on the Acura should be better, however I was impressed on how far Cadillac has come. If you insist on buying American, then this would be a car to highly consider.
- from Arifleet 3 or 4 weeks ago.
It looks like this restriction MAY have been lifted.
- Ray
Also needing a hole in the roof . . .
I say blown or unblown is OK and based on how the engine is made and how the power curve, er, "curves" -- I respect 'em both!
The older Sevilles used to have four speed automatics, and had either 3.15s (SLS) or 3.71s (STS.)
Also, being as this new five speed is different than the older four speed, what are its ratios?
Thanks in advance.
The Seville with the base (275 hp) engine had a 3.11:1 axle and 0.68 overdrive. With the 5 speed, the 2.73:1 axle and 0.76 overdrive give about the same overdrive ratio. Low gear is nearly the same too. The 3.42:1 axle gives nearly the same gearing as the old STS 3.71:1 axle ratio, both for low and overdrive.