Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

1…6869717374…111

Comments

  • rparisrparis Member Posts: 368
    Thanks-What is A plan?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The plan for Ford employees, retirees and their families to buy at very near cost.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The 3-bar grille will carry into a few other vehicles as well that you wouldn't expect it to, but in a less obvious way....

    My '07 Mustang better not have it! :surprise: ;)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Actually, A plan is only for current employees. Retirees get Z plan.
  • green2gogreen2go Member Posts: 14
    OK, they didn't exactly say that. But did anyone notice that they included the Fusion SEL V6 in a list of sport sedans, some of which were tested for the issue (on page 47)? The Fusion outscored the Mercedes-Benz C230, Infiniti G35, Nissan Maxima, Acura TSX, Cadillac CTS and others. The Acura TL, Lexus IS 250 and BMW 325i and others scored higher, but all of the higher-scoring vehicles cost 5 to 10K more! CR doesn't yet recommend the Fusion because it's a new model, but if mine is typical, it's going to score very well for reliability.
  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I guess that is about as close of an endorsement you'll get out of CR for a domestic sedan.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    While I don't like their reliability ratings process I do think their head to head comparisons are generally very objective (sometimes too objective ignoring some important subjective attributes). Was the Mazda6 included?
  • green2gogreen2go Member Posts: 14
    The Mazda6 wasn't included...not sure what they consider a "sports sedan."
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The Mazda6 wasn't included...not sure what they consider a "sports sedan."

    Me neither. Considering the Fusion has countless similarities to the Mazda6, and they share the Mazda MZR 2.3 and the Duratec30. The Mazda is definalty a sports sedan, heck, it's in their name, "Mazda6 sports sedan"...Zoom-Zoom
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    You mean except for in years past when they rated the Ford Focus as the best small car (once its reliability improved). Oh wait, no, I'm sure you must have a good excuse as to why CR picked this vehicle, they are just so biased......

    ~alpha
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    They havent tested a Mazda 6 sedan since the automatics were upgraded....

    ~alpha
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Sounds like your DEALER screwed you and put a low priority on your A plan order.

    NEVER GO TO THEM AGAIN.

    Mark
  • sturm_rugersturm_ruger Member Posts: 27
    Now the question for some of us is, will Ford offer a manual transmission with the 3.5L in the Fusion. Since Ford wouldn't even offer a stick with the 3.0, and since there will be no SVT Fusion, I'm not encouraged. The Honda Accord V6 can be had in EX trim level with a six-speed manual in either sedan or coupe body styles. If Ford is really serious about competing with Honda, it needs to give potential V6 Fusion buyers the option of shifting for themselves.
  • rparisrparis Member Posts: 368
    Does anyone know how long it usually takes for a customer to receive a car after it is built?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The 3.5L will be available on a manual...BUT, no word on which vehicles receive that arrangement. As it stands, everything released at first with the 3.5L, will not have a manual option. It's not till later, that on a few vehicles, it'll be offered.

    The take rate on manual tranny's on V6 powered sedans in this segment isn't very high. For some models, it barely reaches 5% then the question becomes, is it economically feasable.
  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I don't know enough anything about auto manufacturing but with these new flexible plants that mfg's are touting, why couldn't they offer a manual transmission and then just build them on an as-needed basis? I'm sure there is a lot more to it than that, but if a dealer didn't have to worrying about having a car with a stick sitting on his lot for 60 days, then it could be a win-win for people who want to buy a v6 w/ a manual and dealers who don't want to store them.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Firstly, the manual transmission will have to be designed. One that can be retrofitted into the space where an automatic will reside. One that can handle the torque capacity of the engine, and other items to be considered as well. So in that equation, you have a few millions invested

    Your not charging any extra for manual, so the offset cost would need to be dug up in another way. Probably a special "sports" package and tack on a premium to it.

    Then at the factory side, you have a bit more complexity to attend to, because it's another checkbox, to fullfill in an order.

    Then, we analyze who the buyer might be. Some manufacturer's who offer a V6/Manual package on a sedan in this segment, might not be doing it just to make a customer happy (although it looks that way). There's other reasons... Most common...Maybe not having a sportier car in their lineup, therefore give them this combination to somewhat make up for it. Maybe they have a contract with a tranny builder and they need to allocate certain numbers of units.

    Then after processing this, research what the purchase rate will be. In many vehicles in this segment, it's really just under 5%. Depending upon units sold, will the manufacturer recoupe the offset cost of offering it? What is the resale value to the owner having this combination since most favor automatic?

    The I-4/Manual combination is more favorable. And this stems from traditional marketing where it maximizes fuel efficiency, and most importantly, it raises CAFE credits to the manufacturer. Therefore the higher take rate on those which works overall.
  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I knew it couldn't be that easy to just "offer" a manual transmission. It seems that putting it on the assembly line is probably the least expensive part of the process compared to the engineering and development.

    I've always been more of a stick guy and for the most part, still am. Then I moved to Seattle. Good Lord does the traffic suck!

    Also, with auto transmissions becoming better and more efficient, I'm less worried about the loss of power and mpg's. I would still love to see something like Audi's DSG become more mainstream...seems to offer the best of both worlds. No clutch pedal to worry about but no torque converter either.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The short answer is it's not the manufacturing costs or assembly line issues (you don't need a flexible assembly line to use a different drivetrain), it's the R&D costs and the certification costs. Each combination of engine and transmission has to be EPA tested and (I think) crash tested and that's where the biggest costs are.

    The reason a lot of brands can offer manuals here in the US is that they sell so many of them in Europe. The Lincoln LS offered a manual mainly because it was planned to be sold in Europe. The take rate on manuals ended up being less than 2% for which dealers were partly to blame, but even BMW doesn't sell a huge percentage of manuals in their sedans.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    Currently doesnt the Mazda6 use a manual transmission with the 3L duratech engine. Im sure its almost the same as the fusion verison, although it only makes 215 hp. Can this transmission not be used with the fusion?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    It does and it probably could, but Detroit always knows better what's good for you (so does Toyota, Lexus, VW and many others) - no manual for you!

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I knew I was overlooking something. So, in an instance like this, where they already have a stick/v-6 combination that has already been proven to work together, why at least make it an option to people who want to get one? With the current manufacturing capabilities why not make make it an order only option so those who want to shift their own gears can order one straight from the factory.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    actually i would say judging by detroit's sales figures of late they dont know whats good for the american consumer. Maybe they should start thinking outside the box, instead of doing what everybody else does.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Since the 3.0L is scheduled to be replaced by the 3.5L within 12-18 months my guess is they didn't want to spend the resources to develop that combination given the likely low percentage of sales. There could also be supply issues with the tranny itself. You must guarantee you can meet the demand before you even start engineering it.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    Also judging by what edmunds says about the upcoming Mazda6 it will most likely have the new 3.5L V6, and i assume will continue to use a manual tranny. (Hopefully)And i totally agree about the demand situation, maybe only mazda6 will recieve that option again.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I absolutely love the Mazda6. That is why I own one. I am patiently waiting to see how it turns out. I like the Fusion, but I don't like that it doesn't come in a manu-shift. Give me the manu-shift and the 3.5 and then we are talking.
  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I can buy the supply issue, maybe they only have enough to cover the mz6. But haven't they already paid for the engineering costs by developing the exact same combination for the Mazda6?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    As a Mazda 6 owner, I can pretty much guarantee that Mazda will still offer a manual with the 3.5L. Although only about 5 percent of mid-size sedan drivers specify the manual, there's a significant higher percentage of Mazda 6 V6 drivers that specify manuals (don't remember the exact number, but I think it's over 15%), partly because they're one of the few that offer it, and partly because it's almost expected from repeated Mazda customers. Even the Mazda 5 offers a manual!

    Why did I buy a 6 instead of waiting for the Fusion last year? Simple, Mazda offers a manual with the 3L. My wife is considering the Milan next year, but she's discouraged that she can only get a manual with the 4-cyl, but she wants the 3L. For us, manu-matics don't cut it. If it doesn't have three pedals, it's not considered.

    If Mazda wants to retain ANY customers, they'll offer the manual (hopefully a 6-speed) with the 3.5L, so the development costs are covered. Theres NO reason why the Fusion/Milan shouldn't offer a manual. Not now, and not when the 3.5L becomes available.

    Does anyone from Ford read this board? Are you listening? I highly doubt the Five Hundred would have much demand with a manual (although I'd drive it), but if Ford wants to retain market share, and perhaps entice new customers, then BRING ON THE MANUAL! ;)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Theres NO reason why the Fusion/Milan shouldn't offer a manual.

    a) it still costs $$$ to certify a new drivetrain even if it already exists in another vehicle. It's not free.

    b) the take rate for a v6 manual Fusion won't be anywhere near 15% - more like 5%. At those rates the business case isn't a slam dunk.

    c) there's still a slight supplier issue - can they supply the extra trannies

    That's hardly NO reason. Not saying it's impossible or even difficult but it's not a slam dunk.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Gee EVEN if there was a V6 Manual combo. Wouldnt you still rather have a Mazda 6?

    I never owned a slush box before but learn to drive on my parents.

    Now that i'm 34, in NJ, I have to ask myself. Do I really waot to shift for myself when there are now Automatics out that do it so well?

    Mark
  • volk1volk1 Member Posts: 5
    I would add that to add a manual transmission option would add a fair amout of additional complexity to the build process. Ford has cleverly (in my opinion) streamlined the Fusion options in order to enhance build quality and line speed. So far, it has worked.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "Currently doesnt the Mazda6 use a manual transmission with the 3L duratech engine. Im sure its almost the same as the fusion verison, although it only makes 215 hp. Can this transmission not be used with the fusion?"

    Yes, although THAT manual can't handle the torque output of the 3.5L. A new Manual transmission will be needed, and certifying it as well as what Akirby stated.
  • jaysashjaysash Member Posts: 7
    I've heard that they are going to re-make the fusion sometime soon? Anyone hear about this?

    http://www.ford-fusion.org/
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I haven't heard that anywhere. In fact the Fusion styling cues will be showing up on other Ford products. Not likely they'll be changing it soon, although 2007 is supposed to have a sporty model (appearance only).
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Give it the manu-matic. One tranny certification. It is the best of both worlds. Splits it right in the middle.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Not really. Having owned an automanual (and used it) and being a big fan of them, I can also tell you that it's no substitute for a manual transmission. It's a nice way to get extra control of your automatic tranny but it's not the same.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Who told you it was getting redone? Depends on this "source". The vehicle will receive upgrades in the next year (AWD), after that (3.5L and Hybrid), but in no ways would I classify it as "redone".
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    The manu-matic is not a substitute for a manual but it gives you the best blend of the two, no question about it. I like an automatic because I live in traffic. I also am a manual fan because it puts the control right in the grasp of my hands.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    A manually shiftable automatic is not a substitute for a manual and a clutchless manual is not a substitute for an automatic. Sort of the same way a cell phone is not a substitute for a good digital camera. I want an automatic for daily driving and the manual shift mode definitely makes it more fun and more useful, but I want a manual for my future mustang convertible.
  • sixheadsixhead Member Posts: 8
    I would be surprised if '07 Fusion didn't have a 'Manumatic' option. If I'm not mistaken, the current model year is the only one that will have the current Aisin transmission. Next year's model is supposed to have the Ford/GM joint venture 6 speed Auto.

    I can't see Ford spending the $ on the design, tooling, etc... in order to incorporate the Manu-shift for a one year solution.
  • yoribe2yoribe2 Member Posts: 65
    I rented a Fusion with a 4-cyl automatic last week. It's a 5-speed A/T but does not have an overdrive button or a "2" position for downshifting when overtaking or when going up a hill. Transmission response was rather delayed during these maneuvers and I wish the transmission shifter had an O/D button or a "2" position so the driver can have some degree of control over the shifting.

    I drive a 2003 Accord but I am smitten by the Fusion's styling! :blush:
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    After driving an Audi and VW with Tiptronics and a Volvo with a Geartronic, I've decided that manumatics are like kissing your sister.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    What do you mean its like kissing your sister? Is your sister ugly?

    Oh you mean kissing ones own sister....

    Sorry just playing

    Mark
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    there was a long time ago when people were saying that AUTO trans were stupid and pure excess, also, "like kissing your sister."

    The fact is:

    1.) Almost all of the competition offers this option.
    2.) Most ppl cannot afford 2 cars, 1 manual, 1 auto
    3.) Manual alone is not an option for most people in cities
    4.) Shifting an suto like a manual is fun, it offers more control than a conventional auto and is easier to live with in cities (since you can switch the mode off).
    5.) Just b/c some of you here don't like it does not eman that the vast majority of the buying public agrees
    6.) Adjusting what Ford has now to be a manumatic is mostly a programming change, very little hardware needs to be alterred. It is such a big miss that ford did this. ESPECIALLY since you canot get a V6 fusion with a manual.

    Look, i know pure anual is great and fun, but in cities and for most people, it is not a good everyday option when better things are available.

    The G6 is gonna wipe the floor with the fusion unless ford does something. The new 252hp DOHC v6 with 6 speed manumatic is gonna be tough competition.
  • bokonon1bokonon1 Member Posts: 10
    Does anyone know when the 2007 models of the Fusion and Milan are going to be released?
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    AAA lists some interesting competitors for this car..
    May 2006 issue of Car&Travel..

    http://www.aaany.com/automotive/buying_leasing/test_drives/2006/story.asp?xml=20- - - - 06_ford_fusion.xml&SrcID=05&ID=01
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    http://www.donlen.com/buildstart_ford.asp
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The G6 is gonna wipe the floor with the fusion unless ford does something. The new 252hp DOHC v6 with 6 speed manumatic is gonna be tough competition.

    You're kidding me, right?

    Have you ever sat inside or driven a G6? There are some SERIOUS flaws that no high-power V6 and manu-matic can ever solve. The handling is a joke, body roll is outrageous, and the steering just doesn't feel as connected to the road as the Fusion/Milan does. The G6's brakes can't hold a candle to the F/M, and the chassis is pathetic for ANY 4-door sedan.

    The interior? Yeah, right... GM has improved the interiors on many of their offerings, including the Yukon/Tahoe, but those designers were obviously out sick the day the G6 was designed. Cheap plastic EVERYWHERE. The switchgear looks and feels cheap, the seats are uncomfortable, and the materials (both cloth and leather) don't look to last longer than 6 months.

    Sorry, but I used to buy Pontiac, them being the only GM division that I liked.

    Not anymore...
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    when the new one comes out you should sit in it and give it a test drive. one of the reasons for body roll is weight. With the new engine the car should weigh a bit less, and all that power along with more effecient managment of the engine should give it a better feel.

    I'm not sure which model you sat in, but for 2007 most G6's will have hydraulic steering which gives better road feel.

    I'm not saying the fusion or milan is a bad car, im just bumed out it has no manumatic, it takes so much of the fun away. When you pull out of traffic and find a small stretch of hyway you can play with, its so cool to have the option of switching in to manual shift mode and enjoying yourself, only then to be able to come back to reality when traffic hits.

    I'm upset at both cars for not offering a nav system or at least HIDs. I thought for sure Ford would be differentiating all of there mercury vehicles with HID headlights just like in the montego, but I hoped for too much.

    All of these cars are good though, and now the G6 is officially less lacking than the Fusion/Milan. Meybe Ford will fix that, since by all accounts the fusion does seem to have the advantage on chassis, but I'm not sure.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    one of the reasons for body roll is weight

    No, the reason for body roll is suspension tuning, regardless of weight (within the limits of a normal sedan at least).

    Reducing weight won't reduce body roll without a change in the suspension.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles