Chevrolet Cobalt

ron_m · August 2005

poncho167,

With this post you were trying to humor us. Right?

While I do agree with some of your comments, many of them are way off target as far as I am concerned. Mainly the one regarding Toyota's good reliability reputation being based upon slick marketing strategy. Toyota EARNED their good reliability reputation, just like Mercedes-Benz earned their more recent POOR reliability reputation. Anyone that has followed the automobile industry for 30 years or more knows these two FACTS.

The Cobalt may turn out to be a pretty decent little car, and may even hold its value fairly well compared to some of the other GM products of the past decade or so that have plummeted in value when compared with their Asian counterparts. Although I like the Cobalt myself, I don't particularly view it as a Civic killer. If anything I view it as a Civic knockoff product. Maybe it's going to turn out to be better than the Civic? Only time will tell. But I sort of doubt it. Again, I do like the Cobalt sedan and would even consider purchasing a third model year Cobalt LT.

I have no axe to grind with the Big 3 domestic automakers. It would make me very happy to see the three of them be considered among the world's top five automakers in style, technology, initial build quality and downstream reliability. But I am also realistic, and this isn't going to happen anytime soon. If ever. I do applaud GM for the job that they have done with both the Buick and Cadillac product lines. Both of these badges consistently do well in quality polls.

Regarding the overpriced BMWs and Lexus badged products, only the BMW would be considered overpriced by me. At least Lexus makes a high quality product. Sure they have their share of problems as all automobile manufacturers do. But overall they are extremely high quality cars and SUVs on average. The initial quality polls and downstream reliability statistics clearly prove this. Toyota Motor Co. has more stringent quality standards in place for their suppliers when it comes to their Lexus product line parts.

I've owned really, really good domestics and imports over the years. So far the most reliable vehicles that I have ever owned were both made by Toyota Motor Co. One was a Toyota built in 1985 and the other is my current 2002 Lexus. They were and are absolutely bulletproof from a mechanical, electrical and trim/finish standpoint. And I had a 1977 Pontiac TransAm that was basically bulletproof for the most part. It gave very little trouble over 8 years of ownership after having purchased it brand new in June of '77. The most problematic vehicle that I have ever purchased brand new was a 2002 Chevy TrailBlazer LTZ. Transmission failed at 9,000 miles of operation. My 1999 Chevy Blazer LS (2-door) was a pretty good vehicle--although the tranny did slip on occassion after having driven the vehicle on mountain roads for an hour or more. Mr. Goodwrench never did offer up an explanation or solution for that issue. Oh, and it did have the extremely loud, sporadic roaring noise from the fan clutch that several GM pickup trucks and SUVs are well known for.

I agree with your comment pertaining to maintenance being important. No car will be any good if you neglect it. You are spot on there!

Ron M.

bigdaddycoats · August 2005

per 2006 information guide.

LS: 2780 / 1261

LT: 2793 / 1267

LTZ: 2905 / 1318

SS: 2871 / 1302

vanman1 · August 2005

While I agree that Toyota has earned it's reputation, I think it's reputation now exceeds the reality of it's quality level vs. other makes. Many other car makers can match or exceed Toyota quality now and their cars are for the most part dull and boring.

poncho167 · August 2005

I agree to your rebuttal to my questions about resale and reliability, but I will still stick with my marketing and perception of quality, etc.

Marketing plays a big part in automobile sales, products, etc. Uneducated people (a lot of America) tend to believe what they see and hear (recent presidential elections) and are too lazy or gullible. Oldsmobiles "Not your fathers Oldsmobile" was one of the biggest marketing blunders of recent memory. Olds had a great line of cars, but were perceived as for old people, and the rest is history.

Look at the marketing for the Nissan Xterra. The vehicle was new just a few years ago. They came out with its proven ruggedness campaign with pictures of it driving in mountains and mud. Or how about the Toyota Tacoma falling off a mountain. Believe it or not some people think it actually survived intact. Dodge is real famous with it's deception. Most powerful line of trucks (look at the fine print at the bottom of the commercial), based on 3-year-old information. Volvo safest car even though a couple of Buicks proved equal. Mercedes is known world-wide as the safest. Previous Kia Sportage-"Conquered the Dakar Rally." Sure it did. I saw the race live-on-TV everyday and Kia did have Sportages there to race, but of the 10 or so race prepped models they had there, none of them finished, or even came close. All of them had engine failures caused by the extreme stress of racing conditions in this oven like environment. Not a very durible engine compared to the others. Some only made it a few miles from the start line.

What I am again focusing at is that good and bad marketing can play a big roll in a persons perception of quality, and goes along way to helping an automobile or consumer product from being successfull. Unfortunately now-a-days one should live skeptically to avoid being mislead.

poncho167 · August 2005

I never really thought of that, that makes a lot of sense. It's interesting that a dull bland car like a Camery or Accord sells so well based on reputation, perception alone, even when it's not the most reliable (though up there) car in its class.

exalteddragon1 · August 2005

the cobalt and ion were dead last and the rsx was first.

They basically trashed the conbalt, even though their own review a few issues before loved the car.

poncho167 · August 2005

Interesting. Was the Acura comparably priced with the Cobalt SS and Neon? What other cars did they test?

bigdaddycoats · August 2005

Place and price -

1. RSX $24,240
2. WRX 26,364
3. SRT4 ACR 24,085
4. Cobalt SS Supercharged 24,580 (2006)
5. ION Red Line 22,115 (2006)

Road and Track also has a comparison with the Cobalt and the RSX - They picked the Cobalt by a very, very narrow margin.

exalteddragon1 · August 2005

a link to this? I can't find it on line. thanks.

bigdaddycoats · August 2005

No link yet. These are all from the Sept. issues just now hitting the shelves.

micweb · August 2005

In the YMMY (your mileage may vary) department, in the September Road & Track, the Cobalt SS is rated higher than the Acura RSX Type A.

micweb · August 2005

The Cobalt Coupe looks a lot better than the Sedan. I see one parked on the street everyday.

frustrated8 · August 2005

to micweb....probably the reason you see them parked on the street every day is because they don't run!

m1miata · August 2005

Perception of quality you say? It is all in the marketing? NOT! I owned Oldsmobiles and none were as good as the Japanese ones I have owned. As for the stupid ad which stated, " this is not your fathers Oldsmobile" yes is was a disaster, as much as it was the truth. The old Oldsmobiles were different and better. My dad owned a '72 Olds Cutlass, and that was a pretty cool car. It would overheat under certain conditions like all American cars did back when, but overall it was a beauty and pretty much trouble free. The reason people believe in Japan cars being more trouble free is that they or a friend or relative owned one, two, three or more of those cars and had little if no trouble with them. This is not a myth dreamt up by some ad wizard, it is reality. As far as the steel used in the bodies of Japan cars in the '80's it is rather poor, and many rusted. The 1990's Japan car seem to do better in that regard. What people want most though is to have a car which starts and runs along everyday without fail, and that is what Japan cars have done over the years. They get good and sometimes great gas mileage, steering is usually tight, and the overall car feel is not floaty like some American dinosaurs. The US makes were slow in responding to the challenge, and seemed to be happy with saying they were catching up. This is not good. GM seems to be in the FOLLOW mode for years now. If you are not trying to lead, then simply get out of the way. Chrysler is at least trying to lead. Ford is still in a state of confusion, I think. They own a lot of good name plates now, but may be driving them under - who knows? VW has great marketing and buggy cars. The word is out, and thus people are shying away from VW until they make trouble free cars. The ads over the years have been great at VW. People were less impressed to find out their car used oil, or the windows fell out. Marketing only goes so far. Even a cool looking car, and by gosh a New Beetle looks cool, is not going to sell if people are not happy and tell others on the street, in chat rooms, and such they are not happy. Recall the ad, " What's a Matador? " - now that was funny ;-))
Loren

ro22tol · August 2005

I have been looking for a car for my teenage son to drive. We had a hail storm last week and the local chevrolet dealer has 4 base colalts that they have reduced in price. My price would be:

MSRP $14,225
Employee price $12501
Hail discount $4500
GM card discount $1,000
My 85 gm truck coupon, good for another $500

Final price $6,501

Hail damage is mild to moderate, but no broken glass or palstic. I would plan on not fixing it, so I don't have to worry to much about it sitting in the high school parking lot. I would only carry liability insurance.

Your thoughts and opinions please.

bigdaddycoats · August 2005

A brand new car for only $6500 - can't go wrong with that. So there will be dings, so what. Mechanically it will be fine. Seems like a good deal.

fish8 · August 2005

Just consider that it is only cosmetic damage. if you and your son can live with that, BUY THE CAR. Sounds like a great deal.

poncho167 · August 2005

Sorry, I still don' agree. Marketing and perception are everything. Here in Illinois Toyota spends a tremendous amount of money on marketing/advertising their cars/trucks on TV during the day and night. At almost every commercial break there is a Toyota or Nissan commercial, with a few other brands once in a while. Toyota gets a lot of their customers with these commercials. Spring sale, labor day sale, summer sale, fall sale, model close out sale, end of the year sale, winter sale. It goes on and on. People fall for that. Consumers are highly influenced by what they see on these commercials. I can tell you that I used to sell cars at Mazda, Nissan, and Chevrolet, and worked at Toyota as well. Very good fit & finish, but as far as sales go, there really is never a sale to speak. It's just like any other day, it's all in marketing.

You must live in California where most of the imports sell.

I know of way more people who have had bad luck with imports than domestics. Maybe because there aren't as many imports in the Midwest as out in California. But the fact of the matter is that most cars and trucks on the market now-a-days are built so much better than years past, and will conceivably last 200,000 miles if properly maintained. Toyota lost their quality edge because everyone has caught up to or acceded them in this catagory. Now they sell bland cars because of a perception of quality is still there, and it is. Cobalt is a somewhat of a bland car also, but a very good one at that.

If you are so infatuated with import cars why don't you stick to those forums, just a thought.

poncho167 · August 2005

You may want to inquire at Dent Busters about ding removals. They are usually able to get most of them out and they offer muli-ding discount.

My pickup truck as well as tens of thousands of cars in my area absorbed much damage 3-years-ago by hail, but my vehicle is over 10-years-old, so I didn't worry about it.

alternator · August 2005

A brand new Cobalt (with some hail damage) for that price? What a break for you ------ and your son should be absolutely ecstatic!

exalteddragon1 · August 2005

send us a picture so we can actually see how bad it is.

but for that price, you should pick em up right away!

especially if its a coupe

bigdaddycoats · August 2005

what dealer?

gvsunurse · August 2005

I did not negotiate below employee price for everyone - not sure if I mentioned that I get employee price regardless, so that did save some fees or something - as compared to those without it. I had a trade in and did not get all that I owed for it - but got the most for it from the dealership I bought it from just over a year ago. There comes a point where it's worth to go to a dealership that treats their customers well, even if it costs more. I think it's been pretty tough to negotiate below employee price since it's being offered to everyone - and other incentives have suffered as a result. None of the dealers wanted more than employee price - www.gmfamilyfirst.com allows you to build the car you want and gives you employee price so I was able to check that out.

alemieux · August 2005

my automatic chevy cobalt has 8000 miles on it, it has been having a bad leak under the glove box on the passenger side, i'm pretty sure it's from the AC, i took the car in monday to have the leak fixed, and i picked it up this morning and it's still leaking, and i've noticed that when the car is turned hard to the left and acclerating at them same time, it looks like someone is shooting a water gun onto my floor. there is a huge puddle on the floor board, i want to know what it's from and i want to know how hard is it to fix this leak??? but i know that the lemon law is that if you have a problem with your car and you have to get that same problem fixed 3x, then it's considered a lemon, but i don't know if they reimburse you or give you a replacement car, i'm not sure. but i'm taking the car back in tomorrow and we'll see from there if it's fixed or not. if someone else has this problem and has gotten it fixed, please let me know if there's any hope.

richards38 · August 2005

If it's clear water (not radiator coolant) that's pouring onto the floor of the car, it's condensation from the air conditioner that isn't draining properly.

You must have this fixed so mold doesn't grow and cause the car to stink.

The dealer is incompetent if this isn't fixed immediately because it's so obvious what the problem is................Richard

poncho167 · August 2005

There was a post a few pages back from an owner with a wet passenger floor. It turned out it was a drain hose from her power sunroof that wasn't connected.

frustrated8 · August 2005

My car was flooding on the drivers side and the passenger side. The driver side was because the evaporator pan split at the seam so they had to re-seal that. Then it was still pouring in on the passenger side so I took it back and they had to re-seal the ditch roof molding.

It is once again in the shop for the 8th time. The lemon law has been filed. In Florida if your car has been in the shop for the same problem 3 times or in the shop for 15 cumulative days for a variety of problems you can file. Although you can file after 15 days you must have a total of 30 cumulative days before the lemon law takes affect. I'm on the 20th day and only have 4100 miles on the car. The lemon law states that they have to give you a new car or refund your money less a reasonable usage charge. I plan on fighting the reasonable usage charge since I haven't had reasonable usage of the car.

I'm trying to keep a positive attitude.....so when I get my refund I'm going straight to the Toyota dealer!!!!! I'm done w/American made cars. :lemon:

poncho167 · August 2005

This isn't really an American car problem because you are just as likely to have a problem with a Japanese car, Korean, etc. This was a freak thing and one shouldn't jump ship based on that, though I can understand your frustration.

Believe me, I have seen a lot of bad new cars being a former car saleman at Mazda, Nissan, and Chevrolet. I also worked at another Chevy dealer, Nissan, and Toyota dealer, and cars are pretty much the same. I know of just as many people unsatisfied with their import, if not more, than a Chevrolet.

vanman1 · August 2005

Our office admin traded her Saturn SL for a new Corolla last year. The A/C stinks like rotten eggs and the dealer can't fix it. Talk about a :lemon: . I think it's her last Toyota. Goes to show there is no perfect cars.

frustrated8 · August 2005

My last car was a 1988 Toyota Corolla. Car before that was a Nissan Sentra. The Sentra was totaled in a wreck. The Corolla is still running around town w/no problems. My Cobalt is my first American made car. I know that not all American made cars have the problems that I'm having w/my Cobalt. I just got a lemon! I was always planning on buying a new Toyota Corolla but a good friend of mine knows the general manager at the Chevrolet dealship where I bought my car and he convinced me that American made cars are just as good as foriegn made cars. I believed him. And, I know, he was not trying to deceive me. I have just always preferred foreign made cars and plan on going back to them once I get my money back.

What State do you live in? Do you know anything about the Lemon Law?

poncho167 · August 2005

In Illinois the lemon law is five problems of the same kind in the first year of ownership, or thirty-or-more consecutive days in the dealership service department.

vanman1 · August 2005

Have you called GM head office at all?

frustrated8 · August 2005

Yes, I even have a case file. But once I told them I was planning on filing the Lemon Law, they dropped me like a hot potato!!

My car was in the shop for five days last week and they claimed that they couldn't find anything wrong. When I went to pick it up I showed the guy that they had not fixed it and showed him the problem so its due to go back in on Monday. I explained to him three times what the problem was but he must not have been listening.

Now I have another problem. Yesterday we had to take my grandson to the airport and the AC is leaking again on the passenger side and there was so much condensation coming out of the vents that it was pouring down the dash!

Only 10 more days in the shop and I can file w/the BBB. Hopefully and probably by the end of the month!

vanman1 · August 2005

All I can say is your shop is incompetent. Aside from the A/C are there any other issues with the car now?

Have you tried another GM dealer?

frustrated8 · August 2005

The evaporator pan split open at the seam and flooded the driver's side. They re-sealed that. Then they had to re-seal the ditch roof molding. The gas gauge wasn't reading properly so they had to remove the gas tank and fix that problem. I'm on the 4th radio. I now have the up-level radio but that died the other day. When my doors are ajar the "door ajar" warning light doesn't come on. My brake light was coming on while driving down the road. They fixed that. The car intermittently loses power. They haven't been able to find that problem. The check engine light was coming on. They said that had to do w/ the AC. They fixed that. I'm sure there are other things that I just don't remember at the moment.

There has been way too many problems. Especially since I only have 4300 miles. I paid cash for the car. I just want my money back!!! :lemon:

The car has 4300 miles and will be going to the shop for the 9th time tomorrow. I haven't tried another dealer because they are too far away.

richards38 · August 2005

Have you checked to see if there's a Lemon Law in your state?

It's usually best to buy any newly-designed car (especially from GM) after it's been in production for about a year.

The Cobalt is a decent car, but should be much improved after enough time has passed to fix the early problems that are almost always present.............Richard

maritime · August 2005

I've been driving a 2005 Cobalt sedan this weekend with the intention of purchasing it today; however, we discovered this weekend that the car is leaking "water" or something under the passenger side dash - just under and behind the glovebox. Have no idea what it could be - condensation/leaking from the air conditioner? Also, it was raining this weekend but continued to leak even when it wasn't actually raining. So..... Not sure I will be buying the Cobalt today - or, any other day.....

m1miata · August 2005

Oh no, this is deja vu all over again! Sounds like my days with new Oldsmobiles, where you took the car back in say eight times when new. Later on, once rebuilt, it usually slowed down to a strange occurrence, only now-and-then. You do meet new friends, as in knowing the service managers on a first name basis.

What's good? Well...
The Cobalt does have a pretty powerful engine for its class. The new Civic 2006 will have 140HP, so the game will get more difficult, once again, for GM. The new engine Honda developed will get gas mileage like a 1.5 liter, but perform like a larger engine when needed, to move the car out at speed. Will this new engine have any quirks --- who know's. Personally, I would wait a couple years, but Honda has a pretty good track record. Next comes the Cobalt and Civic side-by-side testing in a few months. Should be interesting. The Cobalt engine has pretty good HP. The Civic will have a new body, as well as, the new engine, so the game is going to get much tougher for the 2006 model year for Chevy / GM.

Loren

frustrated8 · August 2005

to Vanman1: yes, I have filed the lemon law and GM actually called me today but I was in a meeting and missed the call. They told me that they had set up a final repair appt for me for Aug 23rd. I called back and got her voice mail and told her that would be fine but the car is already in the shop so why not try it now! I'm a little more hopeful right now because I filed for the cumulative days and GM did not even have to contact me for the final repair. I guess the fact that I only had 4100 miles on the car when I filed had something to do with that. Life is a learning experience and I will NEVER buy a car that is out for the first time!

to Help (Samnas) my car also did that and is now doing it again. The first time they told me they had to re-seal the roof ditch molding. It will be interesting to see what they say about it this time. Also the condensation was pouring out of the dash vents and running down my dash! Dealership said that there is nothing they can do for that since the heat index is so high here (East Central Florida) I can't believe that! I have lived in Florida most of my life and have NEVER seen that before. And I know they tell me that BS because I'm a woman and can't POSSIBLY know anything!

As before, I will keep y'all posted. :lemon:

montecobaltfan · August 2005

i can get a dodge srt 4 or SS cobalt can anyone tell me why i should pass up on the 235 hp srt 4 for a cobalt, any one, anyone

also the at redline is the same car as SS why wouldnt anyone buy redline, other than the fact it is a saturn

richards38 · August 2005

Good reason not to buy Cobalt is that it was just introduced and the likelyhood of trouble is greater now than it'll be after a year of production.

The Dodge is an old car now that will be replaced by an all-new model in a few months, so it's probably as good as a fast Neon gets, but it'll be obsolete VERY soon..........Richard

vanman1 · August 2005

ION Redline lists for $19,995 for 2006 is the best reason to look at one. Bargoon for a 205hp pocket rocket.

m1miata · August 2005

I'd buy a Mustang for $20K, or if FWD is a requirement, the Accord or G6 Coupe. The Cobalt SS is overpriced, the ION looks odd, and the Neon has zero resale. Neon would be fast though, if ya like to spin front wheels. New Civic, soon to appear, will have 140HP, and a new look. And for $20k you can get a used Corvette if you have the need for speed. Souped up econo cars have traditionally low resale, and generally look like souped up econo cars. Best Cobalt would be a base engine. :shades:

vanman1 · August 2005

I think people here are generally comparing compacts, not Mustangs and Corvettes.

montecobaltfan · August 2005

why do we have to have these messege boards and all, why cant people just go to a dealer and be man enough to say, let me test it out and go riding and may the best car tested win ur mind and soul that goes into the engine and lets you enjoy.

i bet half the people in this chat have never ridden in a cobalt, i have and it wasnt that exciting, well, the manual drive was, but the auto was awful, its just a car

alemieux · August 2005

i did test drive my cobalt, and it was perfect, it wasn't until about a month 1/2 until the leak started happening, i baught the car in april. i do have a cobalt, i've taken the car into the dealership 2 times for them to fix the leak and it's still leaking, this forum is supposed to help people with their problems in their cobalt or to talk about the fun they've have. but in my case, there's a problem, the floorboard is flooded, and it smells really bad, and it's a new car, this is not what i had bargined for when i baught a new car. and yes, it is very exciting driving my car. it might not have been for you, but this is my first brand new car i have ever baught. so yeah, now you should understand why i love my car so much, and why it's pissing me off so bad that there's a problem with it and i've only had it for 4 months. so if you don't have any information to help someone with their problem, then quit criticizing other people, and stop coming to this chat. :mad:

m1miata · August 2005

" I think people here are generally comparing compacts, not Mustangs and Corvettes. "

--end quote--

Ah yes, a compact car should have a compact price. If spending more money, you can move it on up a notch. If you want to pay big bucks for a smaller package, you can get an Acura for $20- 22K range.

vanman1 · August 2005

Given that a Corvette or a Mustang burns a lot more gas and costs more in insurance, it's not just simply a matter of size for many people.

A baby Acura is an option though it is a bit more.

montecobaltfan · August 2005

im going to sell it, nd get a SS non supercharged cobalt, and just stock it up, with a turbo and air coolent pieces

i cant decide to supercharge it or turbo, if i turboed i could get the button i had in my old volvo

gvsunurse · August 2005

So, the water leak due to a disconnected drain from the sunroof got fixed. Now, the brake light has been coming on (no...not ABS...my car does not have ABS brakes), and the seal is coming off of the glass on the sunroof! To top it off, the dealers in the area that I'm going to school SUCK, so I'm taking it back home to my preferred dealership....which is a huge inconvenience in itself. Anyone have any tips on how to get a new vehicle? So far, this car does not fall under Lemon Law...any suggestions on how to deal with this?? By the way, I'm leasing it... :confuse:

Chevrolet Cobalt

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