Thanks for the reply Ken. Thats just the info I was looking for. I'll let you all know how it goes. We're not looking to buy for another few months. I just a crazy researcher I guess.
If you don't mind spending extra money, you can get the cladding painted by a body shop. My bro has an allroad and a good shop in So Cal would paint it for $600. I'm sure you can get the Outback painted for less.
That's one of my options. I'm also curious betweeb the Legacy GT and OB XT which is easier to get in and out of for my mom, as I driver her around the city quite a bit. I have time before I have to make up my mind, as I'm aiming for January (providing I can wait that long).
Definitely Outback. I love that about my Forester, the higher seat is cake to get into. Turn and sit, that's it.
When I sprained my back is was *painful* to lower myself into my wife's Legacy. Getting into the Forester was a piece of cake.
I'm sure the Outback will be much better there as well. You don't want it too high, like some SUVs, but Forester has it just right. Outback probably, too.
Drive a FXT. GT or OBXT and a H6 on the same day. For most folks after a back to back test drive it's pretty clear cut. The H6 is a nice ride for sure but the 2.5T is something else. If you fall in love with that motor, you'll always be wishing you had it. I doubt if it cuts the other way. I though the H6 would make almost as happy till I tried it, but it's not nearly as much fun. Of course if you want MT, it's easier still to decide.
Cant speak for VDC, if they made it an option or standard on the XT, your problem goes away. Sure it will happen one day.
I have an H6 now, and it sure is a nice relaxed version of the Outback. Were I to buy an 05, however, I'd probably go with the XT model and a 5-spd. I think it would be a lot of fun, and if I don't give up too much refinement compared to the H6 that would be even better. If we had to get an auto trans car, so that my wife could drive it, I'd probably spring for the LL Bean / H6 since the cost difference between that and an automatic XT is not a whole lot. So for me, it really comes down to which kind of transmission I want. If they had an H6 with the 5-spd, that would probably blow my mind!
The VDC system is actually a combination of electronic and mechanical AWD (VTD -- uses planetary gears and an electronic clutch pack) plus stability control. It's a very high-tech system that provides the ultimate in driving safety. The VDC system has sensors that monitor a number of inputs including the motion of the vehicle and the way you're trying to steer the vehicle. If VDC senses that the car is not doing what you want it to (ie. oversteer with rear sliding out on a turn), it will first try and move torque between the front and rear axles and correct under/oversteer. If that doesn't work, it can brake individual wheels to correct the vehicle motion. Other systems on the market simply go to the latter action.
The MT AWD system uses a mechanical system that will only move torque to the axle that is not slipping after the slippage occurs.
Is VDC worth it? From the videos that I've seen on Subaru of Japan's website (that I can no longer find), the difference is significant. They showed an OB wagon with VDC on and off trying to complete a slalom on simulated low traction surface. The VDC-on vehicle drove through it without any problems. The VDC-off vehicle fishtailed through every turn.
Dan and Craig, As I was writing that message last night it was absolutely pouring here in Bellevue. So...I jumped up and went out to check it out. It was only a slight drizzle by then (whatever a slight drizzle is here in the PNW).
Anyway, I didn't notice a lot of water coming down into the door area when I opened it. I sat for a couple minutes and got back out, still maybe only a couple drips, but definitely not a cup full. I don't know, maybe it was raining harder when you tried it Dan?
I'll definitely keep this in mind and report back, but I really didn't notice much of a problem.
I swear I saw an 00-04 model OB with those plexi rain guards to prevent rain from coming in when you have your window open a crack. I remember it clearly....a dark blue OB. It drove past me in the Home Depot parking lot. They were not as large as normal rain guards to allow sufficient clearance for the window....so in fact, they were not nearly as bulky (at least they did not seem so to me) as what you might find on a framed door. Still some may not find them aesthetically pleasing.
Not sure whether these will be available for 05s (although I suspect eventually they will) but could this solve the elusive water problem?
Whether or not you will be successful, I am sure that your personal endeavors to try to identify/solve this elusive problem will be appreciated by all - me for sure.
I have an Audi A4 (2002). It has 4 inches of ground clearance and the seat is very low. When my back is acting up (about 50% of the time), getting in my Audi is a pain. Literally!
When I tried the Legacy, it was better, but still a bit low. Getting in the Outback is easier and less strain on the back. That's one of it's best features, IMO.
we had just had a real gully-washer! The rain came down in buckets.
The only reason that I mentioned the water problem (besides the fact that it irritated me) was that it was consistent on both sides of 2005 OB that I was looking at and it did not appear to be a problem with the 2004.
A couple of drips would be no problem. A cup full is an issue.
Interesting stuff.
We'll figure it out sometime. The right conditions will pop up again.
Here in Australia, the 05 OB has an accessory called "slimline weather shields". These are rain guards that sit around where the top of the door frame and are about 1-inch long.
What I can't work out from the photo in the accessory guide is how this works when you have frameless windows. I don't think they sit within the door frame itself (because there is none), so it must hang from the A-pillar/roof. Presumably it sits high enough not to "foul" the door when it opens.
The actual design purpose is so you can drive with the windows open during a downpour, without getting wet. Not sure it solves the door opening issue.
I can't see the accessory section on the US website, but in the guide it has a part no E3610AG010, and a grand cost of A$266.65 (probably about US$180).
Convertible? Doubtful, though I wish they'd build the B9 Scrambler. Thing is, their strongest markets are in the snow belt, not Florida or SoCal, the strong convertible markets.
Dan: you can delete your duplicate posts if you want. Just click on Recent Msgs, then click the Delete button for each one.
Aussie: thanks for the part number, that's a great start.
In the past SoA has not offered those due to noise issues, apparently they think US consumers are pickier about wind noise. But now they might have to offer it.
Thanks Aussie. From what I could tell, the weather shields you refer to were affixed (presume with some very strong two-way tape) to the black trim on the A-Pillar and roof, as you suggest. I recall a previous poster indicating that this trim was a rubber coated piece of aluminum, which suggests it may have sufficient strength to support the accessory.
Not sure about wind-noise, but I guess it depends on your priorities.
Checked with a local Canadian Tire Store, and they can special order for my 00 OB for C$68. Product is VentShade by Lund and made of reinforced acrylic. There may be other companies manu similar products. The following is the link to the Lund website which allows customers to search the part # by vehicle make, model and year:
This is partly why I bought an Outback instead of another Forester (although a great car!). Even though the Forester has more head room, there is more leg room in the Outback and it's easier to just sit down and swing my legs in (I'm 5'10"). Also, it's MUCH easier for grandma and my parents to get in and out of the Outback (grandma's got a horribly bad back/hip, but she's a very sharp 94!).
I also looked seriously at the Toyota Highlander and Honda Pilot, but the seat heights were just too high. Other vehicles I considered were all either too big, too small, too cheapo-looking, or just plain ugly.The Outback has a very nice combination of decent leg room, seat height, good looks and still with the ground clearance we all seem to crave. How DO they do it??? :-)
Mazda 6 wagon, Subaru legacy wagon or Chev Malibu Maxx?
Compare these for a long time, which one is better in longterm? Personally I prefer a stick, so Maybe just M6 and legacy left here. I just curious why the OHV on Maxx have better MPG? is that a funny stuff? And why these wagon offering 1500-2500 cash rebate in states now but zero in Canada?
Also, i might consider the 05 jetta TDI Wagon once it offer a stronger engin, maybe the one use on Passat currently. But can't find any detail information about it.
I also considered the 6. But I feel the Legacy GT wagon offers more in all departments. Yes it cost more, but I think it's worth it. It the best value for 250hp/250 ft/lbs tourque and is AWD.
Some say the 6 looks better, but the GT flys better.
The interior if the Legacy is much nicer than the 6. The quality of material is ALOT better inside the 05 Legacy. The build is more refined and feels and looks more upmarket. Many people here compare it too the Passat.
I just purchased a new Subaru at Chilson Subaru in Eau Claire Wisconsin. I would recommend the dealership highly for price, service and an overall good experience. They are the class of a not very classy business John
like a big job - but I'm pleased they are replacing both as a complete kit vs. refolding the bags. By doing this, along with the QC checks afterwards, you don't have to worry about it not being done properly and bumps/wrinkles in the headliner. I saw one being replaced in our shop and it was nicely done. There was no evidence of the work when it was completed. I'm glad they did not let cost be a factor in the repair method. But your right - it is pretty intensive!
I called a few of the customers affected today. We're calling the customers directly (the Management team in our dept) before they get the letters to explain the issue. I'm amazed at how nice people are being about the issue. They seem to understand that these things can happen and they are appreciative of SOA taking these steps along with the fact that the bags meet Fed. specs but that our specs are a little higher. Gives one faith in human-kind. It was a good experience for me anyway.
Patti, thanks so much for the response. I have a Volkswagen and know firsthand that my dealership sells cars without dealing with recall issues. The new Legacy looks great!
John - Congratulations on your purchase! Which model did you buy? Will be interested in updates
With Subaru Dealerships - my experience is that they tend to be more friendly, helpful, and all-around better than many of the other "non premium" dealerships. This includes after the purchase as well.
I agree with you Kevin. I have been extremely impressed with my dealership. Although, sales department is important, its short term. My primary concern is after-sales service. The service center at my dealership has gone out its way many times. This is a primary reason why I am going back to Subaru.
Sat in an Outback today. Seemed nice, well done dash, comfy seats, plenty of room front/rear.
Did get to experience the water drip since it has been raining since yesterday. GOt a little on my arm sitting up front, and when I opened the rear door, some dripped on the back seat (the bottom bolster part). Certainly not a cup, but enough to be annoying.
The water collects on the trim above where the window hits, and for some reason drips off when you open the door. Since the doors curve in a fair amount, you get the drips.
I think that's the second time someone mentions the Outback's shaky suspension, as said in the 'USA Today write up'. Could it be true? Its it the raised suspension for extra ground clearance. Does it matter though? It's a truck
'But the turbo four vibrates remarkably at idle, cackles and grumbles at low speed instead of whirs and sings, and stutters and jerks during moderate acceleration. The hesitancy isn't evident during easy or full-on acceleration in the turbo four,'
The above statement made in the USA Today write up is the one that concerns me the most. Can this be true? Or is that guy used to driving a Lexus. Can someone with an '05 Outback XT comment on these concerns?
I am a little spooked by the USA Today review, as I am about to put in an order for an '05 Outback XT next week. Would greatly appreciate comments from owners/drivers. Thanks.
Yes, I have updated the Subaru Outback links (same ones I have posted here). The old Forester links are still there, but may be sorely out-of-date. Feel free to peruse them at: http://members.cox.net/kamartin/index.html.
Links for both pages are on the left. Enjoy! -KarenM-
PS: please feel free to post or email me corrections/omissions/deletions, etc. I'll try to update them as often as possible.
Regarding the bouncy rear suspension, I didn't find it bouncy, but in some fast transition, breaking manuevers, I found it bit unsettled. I.e, in one case, I went across two lanes of traffic and then breaked sharply to get off an interstate at a particular exit. It was safe, but felt a little "shaky". I wondered if it needed stronger shocks.
Regarding the engine, I found the XT engine to be pretty smooth. I didn't notice any problems. I'll pay more attention next time.
Just go take one for a nice long test drive, and see for yourself. Sometimes you have to take the reviews with a grain of salt. You might read 2 different ones, and not think they drove the same car.
Juice and Bob on the board here probably spent as much time driving them as the USA today guy did anyway.
I have test driven the Legacy GT and the Outback 3.0 R and like them both, but no chance yet on the OBXT. It is not yet available in this part of Canada (near Toronto). I'm buying it anyway "sight unseen" based on (a) experiences with the GT and 3.0 R (b) the Crew's enthusiasm as expressed on this board and (c) the press reviews so far (except for USA Today). Well, we can't all be wrong! I 'm going for the Atlantic Blue w' black leather. Will post more after taking delivery, hopefully by the end of this month. BTW, the new cars are very "hot" here and I am not the first one buying "sight unseen".
should remember that the tires are routinely over inflated so they don't flatspot while sitting on the lot. air 'em down to the proper psi and then take a ride. that may make the ride more of what you expect.
After perusing the brochure for the Legacy I picked up today (spent part of the morning on dealer row test-sitting), I realized that the only way to get a moonroof was to get the limited. Plus, no radio controls on the steering wheel, and no Homelink (2 things I really got used to on my wifes '99 Quest, so not exactly cutting edge features).
For those of us that require a moonroof, not a good thing. And for the $$ they re asking, some of the other niceties are expected.
Stickguy, The three 05' legacys that I have seen ( in Minnesota ) all had sunroofs in them. But to have one put in aftermarket, I was told would cost more than if you got one factory. I would guess that when more GT's hit the market you will find more with roofs in them...
I'm seriously considering either a 2004 OB 35th Ann w/Auto or a 2005 OB LL Bean... both with H6-3.0 engines of course. The first is for "value" as I think I can get one for about $23,000. The second is more for "luxury" and I think I can get this for about $31,000 (if I wait a few months).
Can either of these (or any other OB Wagon) be driven on the sandy beaches of Cape Cod without getting stuck?
Also, could someone please explain the "dumping water" problem I keep seeing mentioned here? Is it only on the new '05 models?
Finally, they had one at a dealer! Had tried the Bean a few weeks ago. There was no MT to try for the GT.
The GT/auto seems less smooth from a stoplight than the Bean/auto. I didn't try to redline it, and this wasn't a back to back test, but the Bean seemed to accelerate faster from stop. This was not in the sportshift mode though. I think it has to do with the upshifts and gearing of the GT. Does anyone know if it starts off in 2nd gear when its in the D mode?
There was a strange noise with the GT too, I think it was the square crossbars on this particular one.
Cloth GT seats seemed similar in comfort to the leather Bean ones. I have never been a fan of leather anyway but the bolsters etc in both seem fine for me. I actually like this new cloth material they are using.Too bad you need leather to get the sunroof. Without the woofer under the front seat, there was more than sufficient foot room in the back this time. Also seemed like I could get more comfortable in the front seat with the GT with the seat further forward than on the Bean. Could the non powered seats be that different?
I do not like the HVAC or radio controls, you have to look at them to really use them, in the old models, you could do it by feel more as it was all buttons.
The 05s seem to look smaller sitting next to my 98! Must be some weird visual perception thing.
I don't know what people are talking about moaning about the looks of the bumpers!
Yep, definitely a GT LTD when the time comes. Will give my 98 to my daughter in a year or two. She has her eye on the WRX but ain't no way a 16yr old needs more than 10hp/year of her age! My first car had 90hp! If she thinks she is getting one with 220 she can walk, or drive Moms minivan!!
Comments
Thank you all,
Joa
But your right, the 2 tone is nice.
Mark
When I sprained my back is was *painful* to lower myself into my wife's Legacy. Getting into the Forester was a piece of cake.
I'm sure the Outback will be much better there as well. You don't want it too high, like some SUVs, but Forester has it just right. Outback probably, too.
-juice
Cant speak for VDC, if they made it an option or standard on the XT, your problem goes away. Sure it will happen one day.
JP
Craig
The MT AWD system uses a mechanical system that will only move torque to the axle that is not slipping after the slippage occurs.
Is VDC worth it? From the videos that I've seen on Subaru of Japan's website (that I can no longer find), the difference is significant. They showed an OB wagon with VDC on and off trying to complete a slalom on simulated low traction surface. The VDC-on vehicle drove through it without any problems. The VDC-off vehicle fishtailed through every turn.
Only if Subaru offered VDC on ALL their models!
Ken
As I was writing that message last night it was absolutely pouring here in Bellevue. So...I jumped up and went out to check it out. It was only a slight drizzle by then (whatever a slight drizzle is here in the PNW).
Anyway, I didn't notice a lot of water coming down into the door area when I opened it. I sat for a couple minutes and got back out, still maybe only a couple drips, but definitely not a cup full. I don't know, maybe it was raining harder when you tried it Dan?
I'll definitely keep this in mind and report back, but I really didn't notice much of a problem.
-Ian
Not sure whether these will be available for 05s (although I suspect eventually they will) but could this solve the elusive water problem?
Whether or not you will be successful, I am sure that your personal endeavors to try to identify/solve this elusive problem will be appreciated by all - me for sure.
When I tried the Legacy, it was better, but still a bit low. Getting in the Outback is easier and less strain on the back. That's one of it's best features, IMO.
Regards,
Dan.
The only reason that I mentioned the water problem (besides the fact that it irritated me) was that it was consistent on both sides of 2005 OB that I was looking at and it did not appear to be a problem with the 2004.
A couple of drips would be no problem. A cup full is an issue.
Interesting stuff.
We'll figure it out sometime. The right conditions will pop up again.
Regarfds,
Dan.
-Brian
What I can't work out from the photo in the accessory guide is how this works when you have frameless windows. I don't think they sit within the door frame itself (because there is none), so it must hang from the A-pillar/roof. Presumably it sits high enough not to "foul" the door when it opens.
The actual design purpose is so you can drive with the windows open during a downpour, without getting wet. Not sure it solves the door opening issue.
I can't see the accessory section on the US website, but in the guide it has a part no E3610AG010, and a grand cost of A$266.65 (probably about US$180).
Hope this helps.
Aussie Outback
Dan: you can delete your duplicate posts if you want. Just click on Recent Msgs, then click the Delete button for each one.
Aussie: thanks for the part number, that's a great start.
In the past SoA has not offered those due to noise issues, apparently they think US consumers are pickier about wind noise. But now they might have to offer it.
Start e-mailing SoA with that Suggestion!
-juice
Not sure about wind-noise, but I guess it depends on your priorities.
Checked with a local Canadian Tire Store, and they can special order for my 00 OB for C$68. Product is VentShade by Lund and made of reinforced acrylic. There may be other companies manu similar products. The following is the link to the Lund website which allows customers to search the part # by vehicle make, model and year:
http://www.autoventshade.com/HTML/gear.html.
No pics specifically of the Subie products, and no listings yet for 2005 Subies.
I also looked seriously at the Toyota Highlander and Honda Pilot, but the seat heights were just too high. Other vehicles I considered were all either too big, too small, too cheapo-looking, or just plain ugly.The Outback has a very nice combination of decent leg room, seat height, good looks and still with the ground clearance we all seem to crave. How DO they do it??? :-)
KarenM
Compare these for a long time, which one is better in longterm?
Personally I prefer a stick, so Maybe just M6 and legacy left here.
I just curious why the OHV on Maxx have better MPG? is that a funny stuff?
And why these wagon offering 1500-2500 cash rebate in states now but zero in Canada?
Also, i might consider the 05 jetta TDI Wagon once it offer a stronger engin, maybe the one use on Passat currently. But can't find any detail information about it.
Some say the 6 looks better, but the GT flys better.
Well, it's hard to choose...
The Mazda will be quick and bang for the buck, it is tough to beat.
For gas mileage and ugliness, you can't beat the Maxx. Also, reliability is a question mark.
John
I called a few of the customers affected today. We're calling the customers directly (the Management team in our dept) before they get the letters to explain the issue. I'm amazed at how nice people are being about the issue. They seem to understand that these things can happen and they are appreciative of SOA taking these steps along with the fact that the bags meet Fed. specs but that our specs are a little higher. Gives one faith in human-kind. It was a good experience for me anyway.
Patti
Patti
With Subaru Dealerships - my experience is that they tend to be more friendly, helpful, and all-around better than many of the other "non premium" dealerships. This includes after the purchase as well.
Did get to experience the water drip since it has been raining since yesterday. GOt a little on my arm sitting up front, and when I opened the rear door, some dripped on the back seat (the bottom bolster part). Certainly not a cup, but enough to be annoying.
The water collects on the trim above where the window hits, and for some reason drips off when you open the door. Since the doors curve in a fair amount, you get the drips.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Ken
Voluntary Recall of 2005 Legacy Sedans and Outback Sedans: http://makeashorterlink.com/?N47925A88
2005 Subaru Outback Review (automotive.com) -- New design brings room, refinement and performance: http://makeashorterlink.com/?D18962A88
(Also notice the separate links marked: "• Intro • Walkaround • Interior • Driving Impressions • Summary & Specs)
Also on automotive.com is the similar 2005 Subaru Legacy Review -- http://makeashorterlink.com/?N1A922A88
Environmentalists say new Outback dodges rules (interesting article reprinted from Associated Press): http://makeashorterlink.com/?V6B921A88
Subaru redo: Better in so many ways (USA Today): http://makeashorterlink.com/?B3E965A88
----------------
The original reviews as posted on Edmunds.com: http://makeashorterlink.com/?S2F921A88
----------------
Ken
Does it matter though? It's a truck
'But the turbo four vibrates remarkably at idle, cackles and grumbles at low speed instead of whirs and sings, and stutters and jerks during moderate acceleration. The hesitancy isn't evident during easy or full-on acceleration in the turbo four,'
The above statement made in the USA Today write up is the one that concerns me the most. Can this be true? Or is that guy used to driving a Lexus.
Can someone with an '05 Outback XT comment on these concerns?
The ones I drove didn't stutter or jerk one bit. And I must have sampled about 6 or 8 of them total.
That may have been a heavily abused press car. NVH control is actually a strength, and a major strength, not a little one.
-juice
Links for both pages are on the left. Enjoy! -KarenM-
PS: please feel free to post or email me corrections/omissions/deletions, etc. I'll try to update them as often as possible.
Regarding the bouncy rear suspension, I didn't find it bouncy, but in some fast transition, breaking manuevers, I found it bit unsettled. I.e, in one case, I went across two lanes of traffic and then breaked sharply to get off an interstate at a particular exit. It was safe, but felt a little "shaky". I wondered if it needed stronger shocks.
Regarding the engine, I found the XT engine to be pretty smooth. I didn't notice any problems. I'll pay more attention next time.
Regards,
Dan.
Juice and Bob on the board here probably spent as much time driving them as the USA today guy did anyway.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
-Brian
For those of us that require a moonroof, not a good thing. And for the $$ they re asking, some of the other niceties are expected.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Tony T
But the first pot hole you hit, and I mean hard, you'll be glad you have all that travel. That compliance will allow it to absorb a lot of punishment.
If they drove both, the Legacy handles so well you won't help but notice the difference. It's an Outback lowered about 3", right?
-juice
I'm seriously considering either a 2004 OB 35th Ann w/Auto or a 2005 OB LL Bean... both with H6-3.0 engines of course. The first is for "value" as I think I can get one for about $23,000. The second is more for "luxury" and I think I can get this for about $31,000 (if I wait a few months).
Can either of these (or any other OB Wagon) be driven on the sandy beaches of Cape Cod without getting stuck?
Also, could someone please explain the "dumping water" problem I keep seeing mentioned here? Is it only on the new '05 models?
Yan
The GT/auto seems less smooth from a stoplight than the Bean/auto.
I didn't try to redline it, and this wasn't a back to back test, but the Bean seemed to accelerate faster from stop. This was not in the sportshift mode though. I think it has to do with the upshifts and gearing of the GT. Does anyone know if it starts off in 2nd gear when its in the D mode?
There was a strange noise with the GT too, I think it was the square crossbars on this particular one.
Cloth GT seats seemed similar in comfort to the leather Bean ones. I have never been a fan of leather anyway but the bolsters etc in both seem fine for me. I actually like this new cloth material they are using.Too bad you need leather to get the sunroof.
Without the woofer under the front seat, there was more than sufficient foot room in the back this time. Also seemed like I could get more comfortable in the front seat with the GT with the seat further forward than on the Bean. Could the non powered seats be that different?
I do not like the HVAC or radio controls, you have to look at them to really use them, in the old models, you could do it by feel more as it was all buttons.
The 05s seem to look smaller sitting next to my 98! Must be some weird visual perception thing.
I don't know what people are talking about moaning about the looks of the bumpers!
Yep, definitely a GT LTD when the time comes. Will give my 98 to my daughter in a year or two. She has her eye on the WRX but ain't no way a 16yr old needs more than 10hp/year of her age! My first car had 90hp! If she thinks she is getting one with 220 she can walk, or drive Moms minivan!!