Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

stewart3 · December 2005

I just installed Yakima ski racks on my 05 OB Wagon Installed onto the Factory cross bars. The wind noise is very bad. Does anyone have a similar experience and heard a fix for this ? Thx

dbiker · December 2005

A couple of months ago I observed that the rear tires on my 05 VDC were essentially worn out after 15000 miles. I had little praise for the Potenza tire that were OEM.

The dealer has determined that the allignment was very bad on the read and somewhat bad on the front, a situation that came at delivery. They have replaced all 4 with identical tires. Thank you to Subaru for standing behind their product.

DB

dbiker · December 2005

I am curious about what is happening when the computer of my 05 VDC is said to "learn" how I drive. Can I "teach" it to behave properly? Can I "tempt" it with treats or "punish" it with castor oil?

I drove it on a long (3300) mile road trip this fall and notice that it got remarkably better miles per gallon than it had been getting on similar roads at home. I attributed this to the learning process and I would like to keep the car's IQ in the upper range.

Does anyone (Craig) know what's really going on under the hood?

DB

cptplt · December 2005

Karl, sorry I missed the post.
I have had the Nokian WR on a Ford Windstar for 2 1/2 years now with maybe 30000 miles on these tires, run all year round with Wrs, have probably half tread still. they did seem to wear rather quickly the first year then settled down.The Windstar is obviously a lot heavier than an OB!
I have the older NRW on my Legacy for winter only and they still have half tread after 3 seasons.
Have just put WRs on the Tribeca, too soon to tell.
I had the CS on a Winnebago for 2 years all year round, those wore a lot in the first year (it really freaked me out at first) and then seemed to slow down. Seems to be a peculiar trait of Nokians.
I think if you drive them till they are down to legal minimum tread, they probably will last 50K if you are not a "rough" driver. But they may not be adequate for snow travel before then. Hope that helps.
They are not as good as hardcore ice tires like Blizzaks in winter but are far better in the dry and in the summer are very decent compared to stock all seasons.

cptplt · December 2005

http://www.iihs.org/news/2005/pr110205.html

way to go Subaru!!

or maybe this is old news, so why is it on the radio waves today??

c_hunter · December 2005

I bet the mpg boost was just due to the continuous long distances traveled. I have a 30 mile (each way) daily commute on the highway and normally get about 20 mpg in my OB XT. On longer trips, at similar speeds, I almost always get 24-25 mpg. The car just seems to do better on one long trip as opposed to several short ones. With fewer stops and starts, it makes sense.

The only learning I am aware of happens in the transmission and ECU (engine). The transmission will tune it's shifting style to match your demands, though it's less of an issue with the 5EAT and it's many modes. The engine's ECU varies timing depending on driving style and fuel. It tries to advance the timing, but backs off when knock is detected. And that's where premium fuel helps. From what I understand, the ECU attempts to make the timing adjustment frequently while the engine is running (probably every few seconds or so, but I don't know the exact interval).

On the WRX, there was a well known way to trick the ECU into maxxing out the timing -- it involved a reset, and then gently boosting the turbo while in third gear with the e-brake set (this just happened to be a safe way to do it, nothing magical about the combination). The other way was to immediately drive it like you stole it. Both of these tricks would only be sustained if you ran premium fuel in order to support the advnaced timing without spark knock. If the engine knocked for any reason, the ECU would retard the timing.

Craig

c_hunter · December 2005

I have Yakima crossbars and ski racks, and don't notice much of a wind noise problem. At least not bad enough to jump out at me. But honestly, I normally have racks of some sort on year-round and may just not notice it anymore. The only rack noise issue I am aware of happens with bare crossbars, which may make a humming noise. This can be alleviated by wrapping a bungie around the crossbar, barber-pole style.

One other thing to note -- though I have new crossbars, the ski fixtures are about 15 years old. I imagine you have newer ones? Maybe there's a difference in the styles.

Craig

cptplt · December 2005

so what differences are there between a OB Ltd and a Legacy Ltd besides the height/body etc. Looking at cars101 is giving me a headache!
I need a new car to replace the 98 GT and which my daughter can then use in 2 years, would prefer a Legacy with VDC which doesn't exist. So if I go sans VDC its a 4 banger, no way is she getting more than 10hp/year of her age! Which is why she ain't getting the WRX! Besides her cello don't fit in that anymore anyway!

zman3 · December 2005

Thanks. That actually helps a lot.

The WR's are expensive enough where I would not buy them as winter snow tires, I would run them all year round. I had not heard much feedback on the tread wear rating of 50K and whether that was realistic or not. Most people seem to use them as winter tires and I am not sure I can justify the price. On the other hand, I am not real crazy about the handling of Blizzak's on dry roads. In Minneapolis the majority of winter days have clear roads with plenty of bad days intermixed.

Thanks again.

Karl

ateixeira · December 2005

Ken: I actually poke a hole in the bottom of the filter, to drain it. It still dribbles a bit, though.

The Miata's is side mounted on the side of the engine block (worst place possible for it) so I use a diaper, of all things, to catch the oil that inevitably spills out.

-juice

lilengineerboy · December 2005

So I meant to post this earlier, but over Thanksgiving, and then this last weekend we finally got some snow. Not a huge amount, but a few inches, which was enough to make the roads goofy and our sub-division really messy.
Man, the Subie was a rock. I have only been living in the midwest for a few years, and we've only had the Legacy a few months, but that was definitely the most comfortable I have ever felt driving in snow. And that was even with the somewhat lacking RE-92s.
I realize that it doesn't help you stop, but even just getting started on something slippery and having stability when driving over sub-optimal surfaces was so much easier.
I have been following the snow tire thread, I am thinking about trying to score some WRX/Legacy wheels off eBay and putting snows on them, just to make sure the car has every advantage possible.
I really can't get over the difference between the Subaru and our FWD car.

uberwagon · December 2005

hey-- I am selling a set of 03 GT 16in alloys w/
205 55 16 Michelin Artic Alpins w/ approx. 4k mi
$395.00

I just got a 05 GT wagon and 16in rims will not fit!!

stickguy · December 2005

Dealer called yesterday about the incoming car I had tagged. Have an offer on the table for a Legacy 2.5i SE 5 speed.

MSRP is $23,200 (has a few trim options), and I was offered it for ~$200 below invoice, or $21,050. Deduct the 1K rebate, and I would be at $20,050.

Can't argue with the price, just have to check it out to see if it offers exactly what I want. Other problem is that the one they have is not a color I like (black, I wanted blue).

Will go take a closer look on Friday and see how it feels.

ateixeira · December 2005

$20k for an SE, heck yeah...that model is very well equipped for that price. Keep us posted?

-juice

jchu · December 2005

My 05 OBXT has some rattling sound behind the dashboard sometimes when driving, it wont affect the performance though, but kind of annoying. I have the car checked by dealer, but it was always couldnt duplicate. Dose anyone has the same problem?

JC

rob_m · December 2005

There have been reports of the fuel lines rattling on the Legacy GT's. Dealer fix is to zip tie the lines together, and that will stop the rattling. Hope this helps! Rob M.

raybear · December 2005

Did the dealer present it as $200 below and give you the price as $21,050 or did you reach that conclusion yourself? I'm asking because you're off by about $1000 on the low side. Subaru doesn't have a $2200 profit loaded into the Legacy, that looks like the total with holdback.

stickguy · December 2005

according to Edmunds, there is just about 2K spread on that car. The deal was presented (I think) as 2% below invoice, which would be ~$400, but I believe there was also advertising fee tacked on.

I didn't actualy make the deal as invoice - anything. A friend had gotten that offer (the 2%), and they said they were doing the same for me.

In any case, I know the MSRP and the selling price, which is just about 2.2K below sticker, before the rebate.

I don't care what they say it is as related to invoice, I just care that it is a good deal that satisfies me. But, they sure ain't making much on the deal, but they made the offer to me, so who am I to argue.

xnewman1 · December 2005

The Legacy SE is SO MUCH BETTER than the base model. I live in New England and the car is so popular up here, they don't even make the base model here. And at $20K for a 5 speed, you are getting about $1.10 for every $1 you're spending. What other car can promise that?

kens · December 2005

I believe the ECU timing advance would work with any engine. As Craig mentioned, the ECU is constantly learning and updating it's information. How your engine responds is some weighted average of historical data and current data.

When the ECU is reset, there is no historical data so what it learns becomes it's current setting. Immediately after the ECU is reset and the engine brought to operating temperature, it's primed to "learn" as much as possible.

By subjecting your car to a load at not-too high of an RPM, the ECU will try and deliver as much power as possible by advancing timing. With the turbo cars, ECU is able to produce maximum boost in gears 3 and and above, hence the process mentioned with the WRX.

I've tried it on my Legacy GT and it really does work. In my case, I manually chose 3rd gear on my 5EAT and kept the engine at around 3-4K RPM going up a hill.

Ken

owenbc · December 2005

I have a 05 OB-XT and have noticed a bottoming out in the rear with only 100 pounds of load in the back. Any recommendations on after market shocks?

saedave · December 2005

Only 100 lbs? My 2005 Outback VDC does not bottom out with reasonable driving and over 500 pounds distributed fairly evenly with the rear seats folded flat. Reckless abandon over speed bumps so loaded will do it however.

ateixeira · December 2005

Was this mentioned in this thread yet? Did you see that IIHS listed the 06 Legacy as one of the top 10 safest cars, and one of only two mid-sizers to get a Gold rating?

Pretty cool.

-juice

jholtan · December 2005

I have an 06 Outback Limited. since I bought it a month ago, the front right hand speaker rattles with low bass. I was trying to figure out if it was the speaker itself or some loose connection within the door.

I did a test with the balance and fader while listening to 'walk the line' While moving all sound to each one of the speakers, I was amazed that ALL bass came out of the front right speaker. Absolutely zero bass in the other 3 speakers.

Has anyone else noticed this or is there some setting I need to make?

stickguy · December 2005

received my latest issue of AUtomobile magazine yesterday (the "snob" one of the mainstream monthly car rags). They did there annual all-star selections (6 in total I think), and the LEgacy was one of them. Pretty impressive sonisdering what the rest of them were (Evo, 3 series, etc.).

They particularly liked the GT, big surprise there.

blunote · December 2005

You might try another piece of music from a different CD. The bass part may have been panned hard right in the recording studio, in which case the bass part will only come from the right side of the stereo field. If your new selection has the bass part panned towards the center (or left side) and you still experience the same problem then I would take it in to your dealer. Good luck!

movedor · December 2005

I was looking at getting one of those Garmin units to attach to the console, but frankly, I don't like the power cord laying around and the need to hide the GPS every time we park out.

I know Subary's NAV costs more, but the integration is worth the price for me.

Anyone knows if it is possible to order and install the Subaru's GPS unit on the 2006 Outback 2.5i Ltd?
Where do I look for it? What parts do I need to buy? Does anyone has the service manual to tell how complex is to install myself?

raybear · December 2005

You will have to change the entire console in order to get the Nav unit installed. There may be aftermarket options that cut a hole into it and replace the radio with a nav/radio combo....I've seen that done for the Forester but of course it's a lot easier.

ateixeira · December 2005

You may be stuck, on the 06 I believe the controls are integrated with the HVAC.

On the 2.5i SE, they are not, so you could fit any in-dash unit that is DIN or Double-DIN sized.

-juice

tsy · December 2005

From what I know it's cost prohibitive. You'd probably break even by buying a higher model with the nav in place.

You'd think it'd be easy but apparently it's not.

The advantage of the aftermarket units is that you can take it from car to car (especially useful if you travel and use rental cars) Also you can preprogram routes on your computer and then download them into the nav. Much more cumbersome on even the best built in nav systems out there (of which Subaru's is not- IMHO)
Plus, it's much less expensive.

tom

ateixeira · December 2005

I wonder if my Garmin c320 would fit in the opening in the middle of the Legacy's dash. You might need a remote GPS antennae, though.

I did see one custom solution in a Forester, they used the storage bin at the top and made a surround like the one used for that optional guage pack.

-juice

aaykay · December 2005

You will not be able to install the factory NAV, unless your car came with it. Factory NAVs have dead reckoning technology built in (unlike aftermarket NAVs), which helps the GPS to keep tracking, even without satellite signals....like when moving through a tunnel, between large buildings, big trees, wooded areas etc. That is because the factory NAV is integrated into the controls of the car...thus losing out on portability. The aftermarket NAVs are portable, which is a very big plus for many folks and also a lot cheaper; even though it continually needs satellite signals to function.

tsy · December 2005

Actually Garmin has a unit with Dead Reckoning. All you need is a compass (built in to all units) and a way to measure distance- the odometer. It's not a do it yourself project though. You need to have it professionally installed.

tom

samiam_68 · December 2005

I think the Cobra units have built in gyroscopes, so no need for speed and steering sensor hook up.

movedor · December 2005

Oh well, I think aftermarket is the way to go...

Is there at least an easy way to get a power outlet installed inside the "dashboard storage compartment"?
Can I do it myself?
I was thinking with an outlet in there cable mess could be minimized.

bat1161 · December 2005

One method to control cable mess that I use is a 3 outlet surge protector for the power outlet inside the arm extension. Everything plugs into one spot, so as to make things nice and neat. Picked it up at Radio Shack about a year or two ago.

Mark

stickguy · December 2005

Finally had a chance to drive a 5 speed SE. Nice driving car. The power seat is a nice upgrade from the base car manual seat. I was fiddling a bit, but it seems like I could find a good driving position. The seat itself seemed comfortable, with good shape on the back (and lumbar support).

One issue was getting clearance under the wheel, for sliding in and out, but I think that was mostly because I had the front of the seat all the way up when I finished the ride.

handles real nice. Non of the front end sliding you get used to on an FWD car. Very responsive too.

Seemed to cruise nicely at higher speeds. I hit 70 on a back road (didn't mean to. Honest), and it was very calm. RPMS seemed to be at about 2,800 at 70, but it was a quick check. Certainly more relaxed than my Scion.

The shifter was a bit long in the throws (especailly over to 5th), but I plan to get the STi shifter if I get the car. Played with one in the showroom, and the shift pattern seemed nice and tight and precise.

Good visibility out too, something else I'm not used to with my tC.

now just have to decide if it is worth the $$ to move from my tC into a new set of wheels.

At least the price (19.8k for an SE 5 speed) is attractive.

theooutback · December 2005

Here's an update to my earlier update on my tire quest for my '06 Outback.

To briefly recount: I had tried Goodyear TripleTreds and found the ride to be jarring. These were then replaced with Goodyear Comfort Treds. Much softer ride, but the car was much less responsive and not as much fun to drive.

I have had Bridgestone Turanza LS-Vs put on and this is combination that I've been looking for: better wet performance, fantastic handling, and the ride is nice as well.

In my earlier posts, some recommended the Turanza right off. Thanks to these folks - it was those recommendations that stuck with me and moved me to the Turanza as the likely tire for what I was looking for.

Hopefully my tire test drives will benefit others looking for a great tire for the Outback.

fjukes · December 2005

Your dad's 60 and can't keep his foot out of it? I have the same problem with my 05 Leggy GT (auto) and I'm 75. 'Course I also get to work out on my '04 S2000 (stick of course). Aside from dreadful lag from red lights (in standard D) the GT is incredublby fast and smooth with it - more so in sport mode. Say hi to your dad for me and tell him to hang in there. Frank Ward, Toledo OH

dougb10 · December 2005

Hi Theo,
Glad to hear you like the Turanza's....we still can't get over the improvement from the original Potenza's. We really are enjoying our '05 Outback Limited and have had zero problems in the first year of ownership.
We intend to keep it for many years...hope it is as reliable as the previous '97 outback.

Doug

rob999 · December 2005

Outback XT / Legacy GT owners: what do you get for "real world" highway gas mileage?

rob_m · December 2005

05 LGT mostly highway. All summer was 23/24. Winter (15 inches of snow) and colder weather (0 degrees the last two mornings) it seems to be dropping. I got 20 on my last tank. Rob M.

just_phil · December 2005

I've got a GT, my commute is 35 highway/7 suburban miles. I get around 23 mpg, with my running average at 23.1. It goes up to 24 when I go on a long run, and comes down to 20 for all local driving (suburban).

kens · December 2005

Legacy GT Ltd wagon 5EAT here:

Daily commute 30 miles highway averaging 75-80mph/5 miles local roads

California gas

-Summer average: 23-24 mpg, best 26 mpg

-Winter average:20-21 mpg, best 22 mpg

Ken

stickguy · December 2005

diffrent car.

Any real world results for a non-turbo stick shift (if anyone actually owns one of them!) regualar sedan?

beanboy · December 2005

24-25mpg at 75-80mph

26-27mpg at 55-65mph

movedor · December 2005

My wife said cables is not longer the problem. Removing the device every time she leaves the car is. She said she already to worry too many things (kids, shopping list, yadda, yadda...), she won't be taking the GPS out every time, and I don't want to see our brand new Outback robbed or vandalized for a $500 GPS.

Back to square one. I guess this means no GPS for now.

Thanks for the suggestions any ways.

kat95 · December 2005

If I chose not to stud my snow tires does it make a diffence in perfomance? Will the non-studded tires be good in snow and ice? Thanks for input.

zman3 · December 2005

Kind of a general question there, but I'll add my $0.02.

It all depends on where you live. Will it make a difference? Yeah, probably. Do you need studs? Probably not. I have never had an issue with an AWD Subaru with snow tires (non studded). I have never come close to getting stuck. I also haven't driven in 20 inches of snow however.

Many places studs are illegal.

My opinion, not knowing where you live: If you are concerned, get a good set of snow tires and call it a day.

locke2c · December 2005

Good advice. Modern snow tires have made studs unnecessary except for motorsport competition or extreme backroads / offroad use. Normal commuters have absolutely no need for them.

Studless snow tires are TONS better than the best all-season.

~Colin

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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