Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
I now use snows without studs and find them excellent, even up my very steep driveway with up to 7-8 inches of light snow. Tim
Probably I'll buy a portable GPS after christmas, when some good sale cames out. Later she might want to use it when driving somewhere new, but then she has to use it on my terms.
Our '02 MPV averages 20 mpg, with 16 in the cold winter and 23 on the highway. It has hit 25 on a couple highway trips as well.
Both vehicles get well within their range of MPG using the ethanol reformulated fuel around here. FWIW.
-Brian
I didn't see anything obvious on www.cars101.com, other than some weight difference.
Thanks in advance.
Ken
Craig
And yes, I would think the LL Bean and XT handle the same.
Bob
The SE comes in two unique colors I believe. The one I saw was Seacrest, which is a light silver green. It's a very nice color.
Bob
I've often wondered what the difference in ground clearance is too. It's just 0.3" difference according to www.cars101.com.
This settings are confirmed from the japanese Subaru site, but maby the US built has some differences?
Bob
CRaig
I own a 2006 legacy wagon (non turbo)but find on the highway no matter how much I fiddled with the sound system I can never get it to sound good without my wife complaining it was to load and I would have to agree. We began to pay more attention and found that we were always adjusting the volume as we went to work – suburbs – highway – city streets. Funny thing is we do not adjust the volume in our 99 Subaru wagon and can still hear the radio at highway speeds though it is a bit diminished.
The science part: I have a sound pressure meter so measured the radio volume we use in the 99 and using the meter adjusted the volume of the ‘06 radio to the same level. On our next drive to work we found at highway speeds we could barely hear the radio.
On the next trip to work I brought the sound pressure level meter and found that at 70 MPH my new car had a sound pressure level or ~70dba at head level between the heads of the front seat passengers. This is better than my 99 as it is ~74dba but dba or db a-weighted only samples the frequency range of human voice. I did another measurement using dbc or c-weighted (closer to the range of human hearing) and found the sound pressure level to be greater than 90 dbc and as high as 95bdc. The old 99 wagon is between 84 and 88db, which is a big difference in sound level.
My guess is the car is creating low frequency noise that is hard to identify but is drowning out the radio.
I returned my car to the dealer and they are not sure what to make of this. They claim no one has ever complained, so I have to ask.
Have others noticed the need to raise the radio volume level with speed. Maybe you experience a numbing feeling in you ear somewhat like when you are in an airplane. Maybe you find there is a need for more bass or the treble needs set below 0.
Craig
Speaking of Penn Subaru, I was not impressed with this dealer one bit. It's located in a industrial section of Baltimore, very much a "blue-collar" area. In addition the dealership looks like one of those seedy used car dealers you often see in low-income areas. I sure hope this is just a temporary location, because it sure does not fit Subaru's "image."
I can appreciate SOA wanting to "ring" Baltimore with dealers, but I seriously wonder if this area will attract many customers.
Bob
Can your meter produce an SPL spectrum? That would be the most useful, and might allow you to hone in on specific harmonics that are causing the problem. In addition, running at several different speeds and doing a little math would allow you to determine if the noises are speed sensitive.
I guess one final thing I should note is that I tend to run at high volume (13-17 on the scale) when listening to music, and that might be much higher than most people go to. With music, I tend to set it at the loud level and leave it there regardless of speed. It's really only talk-radio / NPR where I would vary the volume with speed.
Craig
Craig
GPS - what about a small unit like the Garmin i series? It fits in your pocket. Even my c series is not that big, just hide it under your seat.
-juice
While I do not have any objective data as yours, I've found my 05 Legacy GT wagon to be very quiet inside at highway cruising speeds compared to other cars I've driven and owned. I don't seem to have any issues hearing the stereo while on the highway. Typically, I have my volume set at 8-10 for most CDs.
I think the Legacy and OB all get the same amount of sound proofing. Perhaps the noise comes from the tires?
Ken
Mark
I haven't test-driven them yet, but probably next week we will. My main fear is that coming out of a leased Saab 9-3 Linear, I might not like the handling of the Outbacks. That might lead me to the Legacy GT, but I like the higher ground clearance and look of the Outbacks more (not to mention the GT doesn't have the audio controls either).
Craig
One suggestion: see if you can arange to have the dealer have all 3 types of vehicles available for you to test drive.
Good luck!
Mark
Oh no! Are you planning on leaving the dark side? Say it isn't so!
Have you considered getting a Cobb Accessport and running an economy map for those long trips? The $640 price tag is probably a lot less than the depreciation hit plus new sales tax you would incur, plus you would also get to play with the performance maps too. Of course, this will probably affect your warranty, but just another option.
Ken
I had the GT out for a couple of hours and thought the car very quiet with a bit of road noise from the /45 series tires.
I now am wondering if the turbo changes the exhaust note while the 2.5I resonates more. If the car is running and I am in the drivers seat and someone opens the rear of the wagon there is a lower frequency fludder. My single exhaust 99 wagon does not do this.
Has any one else noticed this? :confuse:
In the previous generation OB, the VDC model got extra soundproofing to augment the McIntosh sound system but it was never openly advertised.
Ken
It's okay as long as Toyota will make a strong commitment to SAFETY (6 standard airbags on Legacy/Outback & Honda Civic/Accord vs 2 standard airbags on almost all Camry models).
Legacy/Outback might get hybrid technology from Prius.
http://www.whas11.com/sharedcontent/autos/topstories2/112805ccwcAutosToyotaprodu- - ction.1f3b0e8f.html
Under the latest expansion plans, the world's No. 2 automaker has asked Fuji Heavy Industries, maker of Subaru autos, to start building Toyotas in 2007 at a Lafayette, Indiana, factory operated by Fuji's wholly owned subsidiary, Subaru of Indiana Automotive, the Asahi newspaper reported Wednesday, without citing sources.
Company representatives were not available for comment Wednesday, a national holiday in Japan.
Ann McConnell, a spokeswoman for Subaru of Indiana, said Fuji Heavy Industries and Toyota Motor Corp. have been in discussions, but that there has been no word of a decision yet.
There are five to six candidate models for production, the newspaper said, with the number manufactured annually to gradually increase to 100,000 vehicles. Earlier reports have suggested that Toyota might produce hybrid vehicles at the Fuji plant.
The Indiana plant produced nearly 120,000 Subaru models last year.
It wasn't immediately clear if Subaru production would be reduced or what the factory's total vehicle output would be.
Fuji teamed up with Toyota in October after ending a five-year tie-up with GM, which sold its 20 percent in the Japanese company. Toyota, based in Toyota City in central Japan, bought a 8.7 percent stake from GM for about $315 million to become Fuji's top shareholder.
I looked into the Cobb Accessport a while back, and decided it was not worth the $640 gamble. There is little or no data/info on that economy mode (in contrast to the various power stage modes, where there is a lot of data and experience). Basically, all I know is that they turn off the boost controller and increase the timing under light load conditions. The MPG/range benefits are a big unknown, as is the driveability impact. That would have been a great solution though, if there were some real world MPG data.
I test drove an OB 2.5i SE today -- the local dealer had a green one just like Bob was describing. It's a very nice car, and for $1500 it gives a couple features I would want from the pricier $2500 limited package. I don't really care about Nav, but don't mind it either. The 2.5i rides and handles about the same as my OB XT Ltd, though it seemed a little quieter/softer due to the cloth interior. Heard the same damn tire noise that the Potenzas make on my OB XT (same tire in the 06 2.5i now). Power was adequate most of the time (left the trans in sport mode) but when I went to merge on the highway the car was a real dog (in fact, I missed an open slot in traffic and had to wait for another opening). I immediately missed the turbo engine, which would have launched me right into traffic without an issue.
Makes me wonder -- if I have to flog a 2.5i model, the MPG might not be as great as the window sticker asserts.
I know a manual trans 2.5i would be a little better, but auto is a better all around solution for me. Another oddity is that you can't get a black interior on monotone Outbacks anymore, unless you get black exterior. All the other mono colors come with the taupe interior, which is too light for my tastes (I am sure the cloth would get dirty quick; leather might be safer). The only other way to get a black interior is with the two-tone Outbacks, which are not as appealing. I guess I was lucky to get the mono-gold Outback with black leather in 05, as it's a sharp color combination. I have no idea why they would drop color combos like that!
So I keep coming back to the notion that the OB XT just needs a bigger gas tank. I don't mind the MPG or the cost of fuel, but range is the killer. At a combined 20-21 mpg, a 15.9 gallon tank is just too small! Short of strapping spare gas tanks on the roof, I don't know of a good solution to the problem. Actually, even that is a poor option with a full rack of skis!
It's a pity Subaru doesn't offer the H6 engine in the previous generation Outback -- to me, that was a "just right" engine for the car, and it got great gas mileage.
Craig
I had thought this service was basically an oil change, tire rotation, and brake inspection... $289 seems like an INSANE price for this.
Am I missing something here? Should I take my business elsewhere?
I normally do my own maintenance, but in cases where I go to the dealer, I ask for specific items. I normally pay $20 for an oil change and $40 for a tire rotation/balance here in tidewater Virginia.
Craig
What have other folks paid for maintenance at the dealer?
Liter/100Km = 10.38
Very close to Subaru Canada's spec: 10.4 (City)/7.2 (Highway)
I wonder if anybody knows the formula that converts the Canadian liter/100km into the American gas mileage.
Canadians have to choose the most expensive model (C$ 10,000 more) to get those extra airbags. What a pity!
I have an '06 Outback and have not noticed this, but my tires likely hum differently. Have you tired adjusting your EQ? I hate mid (mid equals muddy). On a graphic eliminating the offending mid-range muddiness results in a V shape. With a treble and bass set up, you add bass and treble up from zero (more treble than bass I find is better with my speakers in the Subie). I don't know if re-emphasizing the frequencies but I thought it was worth a try.
Good luck.
Theo
-juice
I bought my first Subaru, a 1996 Legacy wagon, primarily for economy and utility. It was reliable, but after a few years I wanted something with more power, more refinement, a nicer interior, and overall greater performance and luxury. When I went shopping again in 2001, Subaru wasn’t on my short list. I happened to be at a Subaru dealer helping a friend look for a used car (I recommended a Subaru) when the salesman convinced me that the 2001 LL Bean was a completely different vehicle than the ’96 Legacy wagon. I test drive proved he was right. I compared it extensively to lots of competition (Toyota Highlander, primarily) and bought the LL Bean. Subaru had anticipated my needs and met them perfectly with the LL Bean.
Fast forward to 2005 and I was ready to move on (and up) from the ’01 LL Bean. Another Outback wasn’t a serious consideration. The LL Bean was nice, but not a car I could get passionate about. In the meantime, I’d bought a new 2004 Honda S2000 as my second car, and my standards for power and handling had been raised considerably. In replacing the ’01 LL Bean, I was going to buy the vehicle I really wanted, and could spend up to $45k. I considered the BMW 325xi Touring, Audi A4 Avant, Lexus RX330, and Acura MDX. I’d read that the Outback improved with the 05 model, but I wanted performance and luxury, and was willing to pay for it. Just as in 2001, I didn’t think the Outback would satisfy me.
While waiting for an oil change for my LL Bean, I looked inside the 05 Outback and was favorably impressed by the interior quality and new features. For fun, I test drove an XT Limited with a manual transmission. Wow! This was nothing like the ’01 LL Bean. The ride quality, interior refinement, features, handling, interior noise level, exterior styling, and, of course, acceleration, were in a different league. After extensive deliberation, I narrowed the field to the XT Limited and an 06 BMW 325xi wagon, which had a sticker of $41,800.
I was predisposed to spend in the $40k range (and to try something new), but the XT Limited was just too compelling. Even if the XT and BMW 325 were the same price, it would be a close call. The XT’s interior is fully the BMW’s equal, initial quality and long-term reliability are probably better, and the Outback has known superb performance in snow. Although the BMW had superior handling, somewhat better overall feel, a six-speed transmission, and a few nice features (driver seat memory, for example), its 185 pound-feet of torque and 215 horsepower just couldn’t match the XT’s 250hp and 250 pound-feet of torque. (The XT had a further advantage in that the reduction in power at altitude—I live at 6300 feet—was negated by the turbo.) The XT was just more fun to drive. It also seemed crazy to pay a huge price premium for a vehicle with a considerably weaker engine. (The “prestige” of owning a BMW means nothing to me.) I bought an ’06 XT Ltd 5M in Atlantic Blue.
The XT Limited with a manual transmission is an absolutely brilliant vehicle, and an incredible value. I’ve got 700 miles on my 06 and continue to find things to like about it. Subaru’s continuing strategy of moving the Outback upscale, and offering a sporty version in the XT, kept me as a customer.
-juice
Craig
I was only half serious about the Accessport. I also did some searches on how much fuel is saved in economy mode and really didn't find much. Interestingly, many people have found that the performance maps often lead to better fuel economy however!
Although I haven't driven the newer 06 2.5i 4EAT, I did get a chance to drive a base 05 OB 4EAT and agree with your freeway merging observations.
I wonder if one could utilize the spare tire well for storage of spare tanks.
Ken
Also, shop around the Bay Area. I see you're going to Downtown Subaru. It's a bit further, but try Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City. I've used them before and they are open to customizing your 15K service. Even better is Santa Cruz Subaru, but that would probably be a day trip for you.
Ken
-juice