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Comments
Real trucks have inline 6 cylinder engines in them.
Guru
PS. To the guy with the inline 6 fetish, go ahead and buy a Dodge, and when the truck falls apart you can keep that great engine as a backup generator for your house, and use the body/ chassis for a playground attraction in the yard.
guru
You are quoting GM propaganda at the moment. There has been no "independent" test of the Duramax yet. Second off--it isn't Cummins fault that they had to de-tune their engine; rather it's Dodge's (and GM with NVG) who can't seem to make a proper tranny for that beast. Only Ford has the overall package right now.
guru,
Peterbuilt? Yeah....maybe to an indy but ask any trucker and they'll tell you that their dream is a Kenworth. Same parent but different philosophy of building trucks. Nothing wrong with Freightliner or Western Star as well but Kenworth is the benchmark.
Hopefully, the Duramax will be the great engine that many are anticipating, but it won't be heads and tails above what Ford will have available. If Chevy wants to get in line with Ford and Dodge who have been leapfrogging over each other every few years with performance gains in their diesels, all I can say is welcome aboard. It's about time.
guru
What of NVG transmissions now? Will Dodge use them exclusively now?
Roger
Wildman
One question: Who do you work for? Is it Detroit Diesel as claimed before or is it now Allison?
Roc (Okay--it was a two-parter)
Steve, can you get me an address, website, or something for these prices, as ours are allot higher. But, maybe these are apples and oranges.
I have been the 6.5 site, I'm impressed, but have reservations about aluminum heads on a diesel. It has been tried before, and they went back to iron.
The prospect of a very quiet diesel is appealing, if it still has power.
Wildman
With the new diesels looking like they are going to be cranking out over 300hp and delivery mid to upper 500s in torque, I'm pretty sure my next truck purchase in 4-6 years will be a diesel. As long as you can get beyond the initial out-of-pocket investment, most of the advantages of the gas engines are starting to disappear.
It seems like all the diesels will be about the same size, this should make comparisons real easy. Like Brutus said, this will be good for everybody. 500 ft lbs of torque seems like a low figure. It doesn't take much to get the Cummins above 600, especially on the 24 valve.
Wildman
Said the transmission itself was a heavy, yet simple design. Very modular, easy to work on. He said the unit probably weighed about 300 lbs. He said the design was leveraged so that heavier versions could be used for higher duty constraints, which would be the model 2000 and 2400 (??), likely used in the 3500HD, then the 2-ton series.
Overall he said he was very impressed with the transmission. His shop runs lots of F450/550s and Chevy 3500 HDs. All his trucks are equipped much like my fathers: tool body, crane, air compressor, acetelyne tanks, tools, adding up to a GVW of ~13000. He has trouble with all Ford automatic trans, most of them lasting less than 80K miles. A little better luck with the GM automatics, lasting little over 100K. They put close to 50K miles per year per truck, so they see how durable these trucks are in a short time. Generally, automatics can’t take the weight that they run with these trucks. They have several manual transmission also, but they have become no less expensive to run. The manual transmissions last a little over twice as long as the automatics, but replacing a manual trans is super expensive (over $5K for GM and Ford).
My point is, that the Allison is expected to by far outlast both current manual and automatic transmissions. He saw the Allison list price only: he said it was about $5000. This is the outright, from factory purchase. This puts the transmission option for GM trucks in the $2000-2500 range. Twice as expensive, but you’re buying a transmission, that for the first time in trucks, should outlast the rest of the truck, maybe even engine! To get a current factory HD automatic over 200K miles is costing them between 4-5K. Plus the engine is very easy to work on, so if one gear or clutch pack burns or wears out, it is quickly and easily replaced. Don’t expect the replacement parts to be cheap, at all, though!
For his company, the Allison/Duramax combo is a godsend. His trucks are only getting about 7 mpg out of their V10s and 454s. they are getting about 9-10 mpg out of their Powerstrokes, along with very high maintenance cost.
Not sure that average Joe-Schmo can benefit from these high-cost, heavy duty powertrains. I’ve preached that for a while around here .
Also he said the design has the capability of adding a sixth speed, like a super OD.
What have you seen on price? my uncle saw a list price of $5000. We just assumed from that figure that option price would be around 2 grand. Do you think less than $1500?
What's your take on the longevity, similar to mine?
Like I said this is a great transmission it will have over a year of production under "It's Belt" when you or I go to buy one. I think GM should have done this a long time a go.
You said the trans may outlast the truck. I have no doubt it will last twice as long as anything out on the market today.....
The entire package that Chevrolet/GMC are going to offer will kick Ford on there cans.
I know for a Fact the only limiting factor in HP/Torque of the GM engines for 2001 is the Transmissions. But Allison has always under rated there transmissions for the first couple of years. Then when they feel good about the product they let the Horses run wild.
SteveO
www.eieck.com/public/index.html
Do a search for 2001HD Sierra it should give you about 8 to 10 pictures of the trucks.
I could not take my eyes off of the pictures.
GM will sell the heck out of the trucks.
SteveO
SteveO
Thanks
If anyone is interested in the Performance of the Duramax and Allison pickup the March edition of FourWheeler Magazine. FW was at the Pulloff in October that www.TheDieselPage.com held to show the Power of the New Diesel..
www.chevrolet.com/duramax/index2.htm
Lots more to come.....
SteveO
1. Why use piston "splash" cooling instead of use oil passage from crankshaft to connecting rods to piston pins to piston oil galley?
2. Will breathing be improved if both intake valves are on the inside of V and exhaust valves on the outside?
3. I didn't see any cylinder lining. Can the block be rebored?
4. (I don't remember correctly) Somewhere I read that Duramax 6600 has service life of 200K but Isuzu 4.7 (Duramax 4700?) has 300K. What is the difference in design?
I don't know much about engines especially diesels but like to know more about it.
Correction: Should be Isuzu 4.8L
the piston it cools and lubricates the piston. Then as the oil comes out it splashs on the other components. Isuzu feels this is the best means of cooling.
2. The Duramax uses a "Modified Cross Flow" for the intake and exhaust valves. They are slightly offset and a Bridge is used to activate both valves at the same time. It gives the Intake and Exhaust a swirl effect, helping to improve combustion.
3. It is a "Parent Bore"(No Liners) design and can be rebored.
4. The specifications from GM to Isuzu where for an engine with at LEAST a 200K useful life. The Duramax meets and Exceeds those specifications.
SteveO