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Yes, we are so lucky to have such a large variety of beautiful decidious trees instead of having only dull conifers like the poor unfortunates in the Pacific NW. But I digress.
The missus and I drove into a car dealer to make an OTD take-it-or-shove-it offer to buy a new car, and were delightfully surprised when they accepted.
However, the mood inside the showroom soon became very tense and menacing when the salesman ... (to be continued).
I do recall the pleasure I had filling out the survey and giving them a bunch of zeros, but that's about it.
Trying to pull a trick like that sure warrants a CSI zero in my book.
I called ABC Motors and told them I saw, from NissanUSA.com, that they had the exact vehicle I wanted in their inventory. I wanted to verify its existance and work out a price. The salesman said he was looking at the car out on the lot and that he could give me 1% over invoice plus a $100 doc fee. I told him I'd discuss the price with my wife and call him back. I called 5 minutes later and told him I was on my way.
I packed the kids up (6 months old and 18 months old) and the wife and I took a 25 mile drive. When we got there, I found my salesman.
“Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry Mr. Customer... someone just sold your car!”
I didn’t buy this for two seconds. Anywho, to make a long story short, I found another vehicle in my second color choice. The rest of my experience with Mr. Sure I’m Staring Right At It was pleasant. The process was smooth, though a little slower than I would have liked, given how it still took hours even though there was no negotiating.
F$I is a different story. This guy, despite my politest and forthright efforts, was bent on pounding the extra warranty, GAP, etc. He walked me through 5 or 6 warranty offerings, and I declined all of them. On the last one, he said “here, I’ll add this in there and the price of the car will be $20 less”. “How did you make it less?” I asked. “Through the structure of the deal.”
I’m irritated now.
“No kidding. HOW?”
This goes back and forth and he finally gives up and drops the whole issue, but only after saying “okay, well if you want to pay extra for the car...”. I get the price we agreed on with no mop ‘n glow.
Well, the CSI arrives yesterday and I’m in a quandery as to how to fill it out. I’m a pleasant person and tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt. In my Salesman’s case, I’m fine with giving him all top marks. The F$I guy, on the otherhand, is getting “Very Good” across the board, with the exception of “Good” for “Treating you with respect”. Franky, I feel that my marks are quite generous, even though anything less than “excellent” is a failure.
Now, my CSI specifically asks if it’s the Salesperson or a separate F$I guy who handled the financing. This leads to believe that he, the salesman, won’t be penalized for his F$I guy’s wrongdoings. Is this correct? How do the salesfolk out there feel about this?
I didn't respond to your other story, but this bit concerning the power of attorney cracked me up:
I don't know what this thing is, but we don't take these here."
"What do you mean you don't 'take these'? It's not a coupon for a free car. It's a legal document giving me the right to act on my wife's behalf."
I think of that every now and again, and it makes me laugh.
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Oh well, it makes for a good story!
Recently, I was looking at a car and the salesperson was pressuring me to buy then (did not work). I pointed out I need to show the car to my wife first. The sales person said that she does not need to be a party, as I qualify for financing on my own. I asked if they would cover any legal fees and other expenses.
While I declined all of the various warranty packs, I liked how the F&I guy went over it. He had a printed sheet of each available warranty type, cost and what it my payment would be based on my amount financed. It also showed(which I already knew) the monthly payment based on the note alone.
While it was already predetermined that I would not get the warranty, I listened anyway, figuring he was just doing his job by going over all of the options. Plus he was no nonsense and quite polite to boot.
They also asked me to bring in the survey and they would fill up my tank. Heck, I plan on giving them the highest marks anyway, so why not get some free gas?
Maybe I'm reading too much into these surveys, but I guess I see them as the one thing we - the buyers - are actually in control of. It's the one chance you have to penalize/reward the dealership for their performance. It's the one thing that keeps them 'in check'. In my case, I'm happy to reward my salesman for a decent experience, while I'm also happy (and feel somewhat vindicated) to highlight the F$I guy's wrongdoings. It's a chance to tell the dealership, "hey, if you want peddle these add-ons at all costs, then fine... but it WILL cost you".
Maybe it's a bit juvenille, but I can tell myself, "hey, he didn't get away with treating me like a fool, afterall".
Happens all of the time. We have never done this buy we are measured against other stores that do.
They're penalized for not "buying" their CSI scores. The result? You can count on a better experience there, but ABC Screamin' Motors gets the inventory.
They're penalized for not lowballing their customers. The result? Customer shops their price to ABC Screamin' Motors, gets lowballed, decides to buy, gets slammed with $1k in fees, but doesn't walk because he's too tired and worn out by that point.
I could go on and on, but what's the point. I've had two bad shopping experiences, two average ones, and one slightly above average one. I have a great deal of respect for the shops and salespeople who put forth the effort to do things the way they're meant to be done. The guys who are buying CSI scores are just undercutting their efforts. To make matters worse, the same customers who complain about salespeople in general are oftentimes the same ones rewarding shoddy practices.
End rant.
Full page screamer ads continue because some shoppers flock to these places. And, you are dead on. Even after realizing they were tricked they are too tired from the ordeal. They simply cave in and buy the car.
Just like my friend, Prophet said.
You might as well rant against the weather being hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It ain't gonna change, so buy a bathing suit for the summer and a coat for the winter and enjoy every day of life you have.
Can I use that.? ........ )
Terry.
Bob
There is much reason to rant! I know I could accept it, but I derive a bit of pleasure from crying about it .
But in all seriousness, I used to be a salesperson. I was pretty terrible at it. I sold computers and was pressured by my boss to sell extended warranties. While I'm certain that sellings PC's is far different from (and easier than) selling cars, I do feel for the good guys...
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I don't want to hammer the sales person, he has been informative and helpful, as was the sales mgr. The F&I person apparently learned quickly from my prior purchase in Aug and didn't try to sell me anything at all, not didn't even try to pass a bougus finance rate on me.
BUT, We bought the car Jan 4, It's nearly 2 months and we don't have out license plate / tag (this was an additional car). That's way too long, and my wife can't get on the base with a temp tag. So that is frosting my keyster. No explanation, other than they had some problems with their "tag person"
Then, there was the 3 weeks the car spent in the service dept because GM apparently mis-wired all the spare parts headliners (this car had a headliner replaced with the 1st owner) and the service dept actually tried to blow off a very obvious indication that something was wrong. This problem SHOULD have been noticed by the dealer in pre-delivery inspection by the way.
Then there was the scratch in the door when I picked it up, and of course the OnStar that was no longer working too. then there was the amatuer buffing contest that they held on my door when they refinished it. Then the excuses about how it only needed waxing, ect.
So, buying experience, largely fine, service experience largely a nightmare (coupled with overcharging me on one of my other cars at the same time), where the heck do I go on the CPO survey, they have specific questions on survey regarding service.
I let the svc manager have it, and he never even apologized, so I took it to the General Mgr, told him a couple of simple apologies would have gone a LONG way (on the CTS) and blasted the service folks for overchagrging me on my Eldorado.
They got the headliner wiring corrected (turns out EVERY GM spare was miswired) and the broken OnStar (that they broke) fixed. The amature buffing was also supposedly corrected, but I'm at FT Belvoir and can't verify yet - and I'm still torqued that the door was messed up in the first place). I made sure the svc mgr saw the hatchet job on my door before I left - he was shocked, I really think he didn't realize how bad it was initially. At least he had NO doubt as th what was wrong.
My wife got free loaner cars (this is her car) for all this, so that's a plus. We were also offerred 2 complimentary oil changes (CTS' require synthetic oil so these will be costly) as well as a credit for the difference in overchaging on my other car. So I appreciate their trying to make things right, it's just that this would have been a whole lot simpler if the service folks didn't try to argue with me like I didn't know a certain body part from another certain body part as far as cars go.
What I guess I'll do is wait to see that door when I get back home. If I can't tell it was refinished, I'm inclined to give them excellent marks because od their efforts to correct iytems that I brought to their attention.
Still waiting on the permanent tag though...
Do you guys thin I'm being too easy, or too harsh???
Terry.
Took it to my body & paint friend, he confirmed that it's not my imagination, also noticed some overspray too!
I asked if he could do it right, he said sure, so I'm going to talk with Service Mgr, General Mgr today about their demonstrated lack of ability to correctly refinish a black car door.
I'm still carrying around the survey in my briefcase!
I bet you would pay $500 for a Timex .......
Terry.
I had the convertible top replaced (under warranty) and the dealer farmed it out to a top shop. When I got the car back, the back windows had been scratched BADLY. I picked it up late, after hours, so I had to call them back the next morning. I wasn't mad about it at that point, I was just calling to find out how and when they were gonna fix it. The service guy tells me that he didn't see any scratches and that any damage that the car had must have been done by me before I dropped it off. I can't stand car damage and I fix the bad things that happen and that car had no damage when I left it.
I live about an hour and a half from the dealership, he knew that and probably suspected that I would drop it. Not a chance. I locked my shop and headed to the dealer the moment I got off the phone with him. When I get there, he decides that he had seen the scratches but he remembers them being there when I dropped the car off to him a few days before. I reminded him that I had used the after hours drop off for the car and had not dropped it off to him or anyone else. How exactly would the average driver scratch their back windows like that (inside and out)? I went in to the parts guy and told him I needed new back windows for my car because the top shop had scratched them and he agreed to take care of it.
Robert, the service guy, called me the next day at work whining and asking me not to "trash him" on the survey I would be getting. I told him my intent was not to trash him but I would be honest and that my priority was to get my windows fixed. My windows ended up being on back-order and by the time they arrived, Robert was mysteriously gone from the dealership. The new service guy mentioned the survey only to ask that I hold it until they got the car fixed to my satisfaction. I obliged. I did trash Robert for trying to lie his way out of it, but I commended the dealership for making it right in the end. I had no further problems with the dealership!!
My area phone company has implemented a customer service technique that I like a lot, and think it would be beneficial to auto dealerships rather than begging for a good rating after the work's done. When I call the customer service line and get a rep on the phone, the first thing they say is, "Hi, thank you for choosing ABC phone company, my name is XX. What can I do to make you a very satisfied customer today?" That helps establish the customer's expectations before the service. Now, my expectations may not be reasonable, but they can tell me that, and what I can expect.
Before the call ends, they ask if I could rate my experience with them as "very satisfactory," and if, not, how can they make it so. If nothing else, it shows me that they're trying to earn the rating rather than beg it off me at the end when I'm irked.
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He even tried to make me collect from the top shop for new windows. I informed him that I didn't hire them, it was their choice to use them and it would be up to the dealer to collect from them - I was collecting from the dealer. They play their odds in hoping they are dealing with someone who won't make a scene to get things fixed. Wrong odds with me.
A strange thing here, the internet manager quoted me a "higher" price then the floor salesman by almost $400.? What's the reasoning there. I copied the e-mail from the internet guy and have the paper and prices from the salesman that I will bring in when she's ready. Just very curious to me. What say the guru on this particular situation. And are the Jetta Value Editions selling for invoice or less?
Thanks for your help Terry. I think the wife just wants to trade the '01 Altima GXE Ltd. Ed. into Gunther VW here in Coconut Creek Florida, as we've never sold a car ourselves. I would like to try to sell it, think I could ask $6k and be happy to walk away with $5k greenies, as I will be negotiable if I can save a thousand or so from the dealers low ball price.
My mechanic also told me many folks are interested in a well maintained Japanese brand around the $5k to $6k range with the 78k miles the Alty has on it now that has all the paperwork saved and doesn't mind 2 scratches on the hood and 1 unpainted side view mirror. I did do all the appropriate maintanance at about the 60k mark and had the mechanic find all the leaks and actually fix them...he's quite the master at that! Just got the a/c fixed 2 weeks ago, a small part that ended up costing $131., but it had to be done. The car rides very well and the interior is not bad really, about 85% clean, but the mats have seen better days. But like I said, will ask $6k and be flexible and would feel on top of the world to walk away with $5k greenbacks in my hand. The person will be getting a nice clean, well maintained ride with good sneakers, 1 brand new also.
So O Great One, what sayith the Oracle of Car Buying and Selling? No ego involved here Terry, just want it gone for the best price and want to pick up the new ride for a great price with a fair profit for the dealer, as he has to make a living to just like I do. Do me right...and I'll do you right!!!
The Sandman
(Been having alot of rain down here near Lauderdale. How you fairing up in Orlando?)
I always give him all 10s, so I get treated well there next time - and it works great. But you'd think the company would catch them in their games....and stop them. The 5 star dealer awards are really quite a joke when the surveys are all rigged...
A vehicle comes in with a minor scratch or ding and the dealer pays for the work or the customer wants it repainted .. the new vehicle has an air conditioning switch to goes bye bye in 150 miles and the dealer takes the heat and the outcome of the situation ... a great source of problems for dealers is, the guy with shaky credit and the dealer finally gets the guy done after 5 banks have turned him down and they have to switch him to a less expensive vehicle because he's been "conditioned" by the lender -- or you got the guy that's been to 4 stores and will cry and whimper until he beats some dealer out of another $100, gets perfect service and still sends in a bad survey ...... and the whole time, the dealer is looking to be at $97%+ in customer satisfaction .. there is alot more that goes on in dealerships that "consumers" don't tell their friends and family ..l.o.l....
The system is broke, and has been for a loooong time ... if they want 100%, then have the manufacturers send us 100% vehicles with no problems and make sure they approve anyone with a pulse ...... Thats reality.!
Terry.
My rear air in my Navigator will work intermittantly, sometimes blows hot. I've had it in before, and the tech says, no codes, it's working like it's designed to do, to which I reply, "so it's designed to occasionally blow hot when you call for cold?"
I have finally isolated the failing switch, and took it in demonstrate it to the service advisor, who agreed, it ain't right. But if you wiggle this one switch, presto, waves of icy air flow freely from the roof. Ergo, I conclude - that switch needs replacement. But the tech maintains, that switch does nothing to control the flow of coolant to the rear unit, so it can't happen. Finally, I put the tech in the back seat, and demonstrated the phenomenon 3 times - he still maintains it can't happen, but he admits is is happening. He's going to do some research for me. I wish he'd just replace the darn switch that I have to wiggle..... I think eventually, he will.
Anyway, I'll still give them a good survey though - because I understand that machines break, and techs study diagrams, and these are pretty complex issues. As long as they'll work with me, I'm a happy guy. I have a very good dealer - he has taken great care of my sales and service needs for 15 years. Being reasonable and kind to them, because they are people too, has always worked for me.
Back three times, driving different cars, endless questions and cold and unfriendly the whole time. Finally settled on a Civic and proceeded to grind me on price for TWO HOURS! One of those guys who thought I should "throw in" accessories, waive our 35.00 doc fee. He made every aspect of the transaction long drawn out and miserable.
His comment? " the process took too long...I was at the dealership for THREE HOURS!!" Naturally he showed up, unannounced on a busy Saturday.
I hope I never see him again.
What a miserable way to go through life...
In my case, I just want a deal I can live with. All that petty badgering just makes for some very bad feelings during after sale service. I have an old friend of many years that has become one of those awful buyers that most dealerships would like to just send to the competition. I haven't found the careful words yet to answer him when he tells me how puzzled he is at how poorly he feels he is treated after the sale. It's a touchy subject when someone fails to understand the consequences of their own behavior!
If you see one of those miserable clowns, why don't you evict him?
I'm thinking if I had a small used lot and a guy started to grind, I'd dicker for 5-10 minutes and then send him packing... there really is not that much to talk about... here the car, there the $$, it works or it don't...
And the bad survey on top of a skinny deal makes the whole thing a loser for you. My guess is it s the dealership management that decides if their salespeople ought to have the power to boot people... and I'm thinking while the green pea shouldn't, guys like you ought to be able to drive their own deals, no?
It's an aspect of car sales that I know is very real, but that has always baffled me.
-Mathias
And, I mean that. One sale isn't going to affect my lifestyle one bit. If my customers aren't happy when they leave, I don't want the sale.
Without fail, every bad survey I've ever received has been from a grinder or from someone who tried to outsmart me and failed at that.
Just smug satisfaction, I guess, that they "won" in the end.
Is either person being a jerk?
Now if he offered $9800, that'd be different.
But to "bargain" over 50 cents or $10 on a $10k purchase is silly.
-Mathias
I had a similar experience in the insurance business. The company sent me a "lead" from the brother of a policyholder. He bought the policy all right, but beyond the first quarterly premium, he never paid again and lapsed the policy. That affected my persistency for the quarter and cost me $4K in bonuses. If I had the time, I would have been way ahead if I had paid the premiums ($800) for the balance of the year - I'd have gotten 70% back ($560) as first-year compensation, so my net outlay would have been 30% ($240).
Such a manuever would be improbable these days as many companies do not accept an agent's or agency's check as premium payment. Some don't even accept money orders. Only cashier's checks or the insured's personal checks.
I don't view dealerships as "the enemy." Consequently, I get a few "perks" - free loaner cars even for routine service, wash-and-vac, discount on parts. And some people wonder why ..........
The bottom line is that some deals are just not worth it.
In my case, One brand got mixed results (A for sales, F for service), another brand got F, period (sales flat out lied, service damaged the car). In either case no grinding was involved.
Still, very bad that people misrepresent via survey.
-Mathias
Before 1995 surveys did not bother me, but I bought the wife a new 1994 Saturn and filled out all surveys that came in the mailbox..Then I bought myself a 1995 Saturn. When the first survey came, I thought: Here we go again, survey after survey, and I did not fill it out. Instead I wrote across the front page in BOLD PRINT.... Do not send any more surveys.... If there are any problems with this car
I will let YOU know, if not you will never hear from me.
I never received another survey, and I never contacted them because I kept that
car seven trouble free years.
If the manufacturers would contact new owners and give contact phone # to let them know if you have a problem with the product, or the dealership. This would
not bother the happy consumer, and let unhappy ones have an outlet. Should make GOOD dealers happy also.
Bill