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Buy American?

From the looks of my subject line, I might look
like a hypocrite cause I am a damn proud "owner",
okay more like driver of a 99 Ford F-150. I am not
really targetting the actual American made
products, but rather the "have to buy American"
group. America is a country based on democracy and
capitalism, which gives the consumers the power to
choose a better quality product. I am not saying
that foreign trucks are always better, my F-150 is
only 4 months, nearing 20K and always loaded near
max and occasionally over and powered by a
struggling V-6, yet so far no major problems (knock
on wood), compared with my former love, a 96
Tacoma which has a problem of taillights
mysteriosly cutting out. I am not saying otherwise
also. But why give us the reason to buy American
because we live in America, why put the Japanese in
the bad light by saying they spit in America's
face? Aren't you(you know who you are) in the same
manner spitting in the Japanese's face? How about
the reason that the profits go to Japan. For one
thing, part of the profits goes to the people
selling/building the trucks here, the other part
rightfully goes back to the company which happens
to be in Japan. We live in a free market system, a
system that America supposably embraces but is
hypocrited(is that even a word?) by the "have to
buy American". We shouldn't buy American because
its American, we should buy it because it is a
product that fits our needs that happen to be
American. This kind of attitude gives Americans a
bad name (in another topic, what makes an American
an American, I really don't know) making them look
snobbish, arrogant, brutish, show-off rather than
patriotic or country loyal. This also makes
Americans a double standard, they are the first
ones to praise USA for it being the best blah blah,
yet the first ones to complain about its problems
(go listen on talk radio). I live here in the US,
but I am a Filipino. I love this country more than
my own because I think its in better condition than
the Philippines, but I don't live in a fantasy
world where America is perfect. I uphold most
American values that make sense except the
supernationalistic pride, (I especially hate
watching the "US vs the World" gymnastics) which
makes fun and put down other countries. Just to
make sure that people don't accuse me of
anti-American product, here is what I would be
buying if I have money.

Full size heavy duty = Ford F-250 PSD or Ford
F-150 7.7K Baby diesel(American)
Compact = Nissan Frontier (love that deep bed)
(Japanese)
Sedan = Honda Accord (Japanese)
Minivan = Dodge Grand Caravan (American)

Leo dC
Tagged:
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Comments

  • I agree with you 100%. The American economy is what it is because it allows people to choose what is the best value. The "Buy American" crowd are usually people that are employed (or have family members that are employed) by the U.S. auto makers. I buy the best value for what I need and if it happens to be American it makes me glad and proud to buy it, but if it's Japanese, European, etc. it makes me proud that I'm free to choose and smart enough not to buy into the UAW's "Buy American" crap.
    If everyone bought American without regard to quality and value, the U.S. Auto workers would all
    be making double of what their already ridiculously high salary is, and we'd be driving rust buckets that fall apart after a few months driving. We'd also have to have 10 year loans on cars, because they'd cost about double what they do now. "Buy Best Value" is the only way to keep America strong.

    -powerisfun

    P.S. I realize that some of that last paragraph is exaggeration, but the point is still correct.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Posts: 1,021
    Japanese as a govt practice unfair competition...
    One of the most prejudiced societies in the world...

    I still buy Japanese products when I have to, but they don't play fair!
  • davids1davids1 Posts: 411
    but makes you feel good when you can compete as well as we do when the playing field is definitely not level. Power, sounds like you are talking about the American made cars of the early eighties. Competition makes everybody produce better merchandise. If not, you die, or get bailed out like Iacocca's Chrysler.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Playing fair??? Like when Reagan threw down some of the highest tariffs on foreign motorcycles to bail out the pathetic Harley-Davidson? A relatively small company got that kind of treatment because it was a perfect photo-op for the teflon prez. Oooh, looky at me! I saved the last american m-cycle company!!
    Playing fair?? Crying about cheaper lumber from Canada? Crying about cheaper beef from Australia? There are many examples of the same bunk played by our own country.
    This is the name of the international economic game.
    Cut the bull. Buy what you feel is needed. High quality with a lesser emphasis on price for myself. It depends on what I need and want--not what country it originated in.

    Roc
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    BTW: I didn't explain the two examples I used. The beef from Australia has a HEAVY tariff placed on it so American meat is more affordable. Lumber prices fluctuate wildly because of American loggers interests. This month Canadian lumber is allowed in at one rate, the next? A higher one.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    is more important to the United States Economy than the Automotive market.

    Just about every biz somehow can be linked to the auto industry some how...some way their sales have a link to the auto industry.

    It's the heart of this Country....and especially if you are in Michigan like me.

    As I've said many time before...I don't care what bull they put in your ear about having factorys here...blahh blahh..yada yada.....

    Anyone who buys Foreign here in the U.S. should be living overseas as well.

    Enough about this.

    I've stated this before in several topics.

    I must take this out of my placemarks now..

    Good luck arguing.

    - Tim
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Tim,
    By your philosophy, everything in your home must be made in the USA? Just wondering.........
  • Shut off your T.V.,V.C.R.,Camcorder.Burn your clothes,too,HYPOCRITE!!!
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    I think your view is slanted because you live in Michigan. That's like saying, because I live in Northen California, everything is related to the computer industry, and it feels like it. I just know better.

    What percent of our GNP does the auto market make up? My guess is 4% (excluding auto accessories like fuel and tires).

    I would also like to know whether you're willing to pay more for food to support farmers who are threatened by over production?

    Your thoughts really seem to support the abolishment of free trade, and letting markets decide who profits and who fails. These are the very things that keep your standard of living high.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    the movie with Michael Keaton and Geddy Watanabe. I thought it was a perfect example of American "build quality" at the time. If we did not have foreign competition, we would be at the mercy of the Big Three...no quality, higher prices. I'm sure we all remember the Volare, the K cars. Where was American build quality headed for? The foreign competition literally forced the American auto industry to get their act together in terms of quality control. Just my opinion.
  • doudisdoudis Posts: 45
    Ok so Toyota makes a fairly relaible car. Ok Sony make nice radios. Ok so Mitsubishi makes....well who cares. Yes it is next to impossible to only buy American in todays world economy. Yes the [non-permissible content removed] do a decent job of producing electronics. The point is we are Americans. Are you people so short sighted that you forgot that just 50 years ago they were brutally murdering and torturing your Grandfathers and Uncles etc. Same goes for you German and Italian buying folks. Yes I'm holding a grudge. Yes I think Japan should have been the 51st State. No I am not prejudice. No I don't think we should be punishing them or anything remotly like that. I just think we should help them as little as possible. Buy American you'll sleep better. If not why don't you move there and see how welcome you are. I think that your whole prespective would change rather quickly.
  • 2sly4u2sly4u Posts: 28
    I know first hand that Americans are hated in Japan. They won't even look at you in passing. They especially don't like the American soldiers on the military bases in Japan. I can't even count how many protests took place at the front gates of the bases while I was there in 87 and again in 89. They hold grudges so why shouldn't we?

    Maybe Japan did force some quality control in the US. However, if the US hadn't spoon fed them after the war, giving them all the tax breaks and freebes to come over and start businesses, etc to build back their economy, our economy wouldn't be WORSE than theirs is right now. Japan owns most of our banks and insurance companies. What industry holds more money and roots to our economy? That's right, banks and insurance companies. We American's can only blame ourselves. We kicked their [non-permissible content removed] and then gave them the US economy to help them, because of a war that they were responsible for.

    I have bought one import small pickup. Yes, it was a reliable truck, but way too much money. I regret having bought it now.

    I won't buy another one. I will push my Chevy before I buy another import!
    As far as the Ford guy's, they're used to pushing their trucks so it won't make a difference to them! ha ha ha! LOL!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    to know my vehicle's service manager by his first name. In 1986 I gave up on American "quality" and traded my 1986 Cutlass Supreme for a 1986 Maxima. In 1991 the Maxima was traded for a '91 300 ZX twin turbo (impractical) so traded for a '91 Acura Legend. During the Maxima to Legend, I did not meet any of the Service Managers nor did the vehicles spend any time in the shop for warranty. In 1993 I thought that I should support the same as the Federal Goverment's "Buy American Act" and leased a 1993 Lincoln Mark VIII. First year build spent a total of 45 days in shop for warranty work. I got to know the Service Manager and Lincoln service rep on a first name basis. The only things that kept it from lemon law was that they provided me with a Mark VIII loaner and it was on a two year lease. Figured in '95 to give it one more try and leased a '95 Mark VIII. A totally new set of problems kept the vehicle in shop for 36 days. I could only blame myself for picking another "Ford". In '97 Lincoln lease ended and figured to try GM so I picked up a '97.5 Regal GS. Fortunately for me it spent only 17 days in the shop and had to be towed in only once. In '99 still buying American with my 2000 Silverado 5.3 Xcab SB with wind noise, rough idle, clunking and have called my dealer's Service Manager so many descriptive names when he denies that anything is wrong with the truck.

    Would someone call me stupid or a loyal American for supporting the American automotive industry and increasing the stress in my life?
  • 2sly4u2sly4u Posts: 28
    I understand your stress, but that is the dealer you are working with, not the manufacturer. I don't know why you have had such a bad string of American vehicles. I have had over 15 years of new American vehicles, mostly Ford. Did not have any problems until Ford went South with their new model trucks. Until then, no problems, not even squeaks, rattles, or other annoyances.

    I currently have a 99 Silverado that had a few very minor problems with it, all rectified now and I am 100% satisfied with it now. I too had bought from a dealer that had a great sales dept., but a terrible service dept. I have since chosen a different dealership for my service needs and got my truck taken care of very quickly and with very courteous service.

    It all depends on the dealer. The Toyota dealer I bought my Toyota Tacoma from had a much worse service dept than my latest experience with the Chevy dealer. I had the 19k mile head gasket replacement problem. My selling Toyota dealer said it would be 3 months to get my truck because of all the others waiting for the same problem. They said they would give me a Tercel to drive. Gee thanks, and I am suppose to pull a boat with a Tercel??? Thats the reason I bought the truck! I argued till I was blue in the face. Made no difference. Toyota Corporate would not step in and help either. I finally got so pissed off that I "had it towed" to another dealer and they got it done in about 3 weeks. They did rent me another Tacoma (although it was a wimpy 4 banger), but the moral being that the other dealer made all the difference in the world and they were only about 10 miles away from each other.

    Don't blame the vehicle make for something a poor dealer did. As far as getting the problem cars, it sounds as if you are just prone to get lemons. I have never known anyone with as bad of luck as you with any make of vehicle.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    My '93 Lincoln was a first year model so problems were to be expected, but not on the second one. I could only figure that it was a Ford. I have to admit that the people at Lincoln really took care of their customers as I always had an identical loaner. Needless to say, I never exceeded the mileage allocation of the lease. The Regal 97.5 was also a first year model and a search of the TSB's printed three pages if my memory serves me correctly. I had initially bought a '99 Silverado and dumped it with 300 miles on it. Had too many problems to mention. Dealer took it back no questions asked when I picked out a '00 that cost $5000 more. He resold the '99 as new. I had asked the Sales Manager for the name of the person that bought it (just to see his reaction). Needless to say, he became extremely disturbed.

    American build quality has greatly improved since the 70's and 80's and still needs improvement. When friends ask how I like the Silverado, I tell them that it is a great truck and would be an awesome truck if it didn't have the weird sounds (clunking, wind) and the loser of a Service Manager.

    Unfortunately, there are only two other Chevy dealerships in my area and they are just as bad which is why I didn't buy my truck from them. It appears that my only other option is to go and see the GMC dealer. Hopefully, they are better.
  • barlitzbarlitz Posts: 752
    American is the only way for me,I was made in America, I breath American free air, I see America's beautiful lands,I date an American beautiful woman and I work for an American Union and I am proud of it.Don't like it then get the hell out of this country.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    Amen brother!

    - Tim
  • 2sly4u2sly4u Posts: 28
    I see we agree on at least one thing!
  • barlitzbarlitz Posts: 752
    All kidding aside,the USA is the best country in the world and we all should be proud to live here and I think its a good idea to support your country.
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    What do you think of our American government?

    I'm not knocking you, just curious.
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    I was raised very patriotic, with good morals and respect for those who are wiser and have earned it, and to believe (and I do) that this is the greatest country on the face of the earth.

    However, I have to admit that my faith has slipped. We have a government that continues to let things slip away and decrease our rights. The control the governments has on ones life today has increased dramatically. It won't be long until guns are banned. Every jurisdiction in the world wants it's fingers in you and to control what you can do and when you can do it (city, county, state and federal). Our government has given away and will continue to give away our natural resources & our hard earned money, all in the name of helping the weak in the world, whether they are individuals or whole countries. The ideas that created this country are SLOWLY being eroded and flushed down the toilet. Especially with the decline in Communism, this country thinks it can afford to be even more liberal and politically correct, because it doesn't have to be as tough now that what it percieved as the 'major threat' is gone.

    I for one, don't have enought time in this life to wait for things to turn around as I think it will get worse before it gets better. I used to be the type of person that would buy the most expensize item in a given group because I felt 'you got what you paid for'. I used to believe in buying things from the small vendor in town to keep out the giant Walmart and Costco. I used to try to buy American to keep our dollars at home. I used to try and buy lifes necessities like gas and food from the very small town where I live, to keep them in business, even though it costs more.

    Sadly enough, after having my rights and freedoms infringed on, my money taken to support the weak, made to pay extra taxes so some lucky few could get nice tax breaks and loopholes, forced to give more to support the governments of coutries that killed my ancestors and will proceed to steal my retirement when I need it, I've thrown in the towel. Know one is looking out for me. I only see people around me with their hand out, trying to take the most and give the least.

    I'm 31 and feel young to be broken so young. I know a lot of you will say 'you're weak too, you're like the rest of them'. How many times do you need to be knocked down before you fight back or run?
  • I admit, wasn't born here (in the US) but I lived here for the past 8 years. I [non-permissible content removed] and complain about the problems here in the US because there are problems here in the US, that's a fact, anyone disagree? However, compared to my native country, the US is atleast 10 times better in my experience. I love the diversity here (if I want to get the feel of being in the Philippines again, all I have to do is go to "Flip Town", Daly City, hehehe) so its not boring. Living conditions aren't perfect but more livable, people are spoiled but somewhat more dignified, blah-blah-blah pretty much the only thing I see that is worse here than in the Philippines is how the older folks are treated and how the youngin's are raised, IMHO that is a topic in itself. I love my native country, and I love my new country, but don't expect me to love their warts. I will continue to moan and groan about whatever ugliness they have cause its more comforting that way. I will also not going to buy American just because its American. We live in a world market now, money just goes everywhere. We buy Toyota, we help pay for some factory worker's kid's tuition somewhere in Indiana. We buy Ford, we help pay for some guy's burrito in Mexico. Buying American isn't buying American anymore, that's one of my points. Me being a Flip, I should hold a grudge to the [non-permissible content removed] since they invaded my country in 41, but I don't, that's history and I won't account someone who's ancestor happens to maim and kill my ancestors. If I was to hold grudges to invaders, Americans would be one of them (Thanks to McKinley) but again I don't, that's in the past. We should forgive, although we should never, ever forget.

    Leo dC
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    I would be supporting someone in Indiana, I should have traded my '99 Silverado for a '00 Tindra.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    That come here and live...but do nothing but [non-permissible content removed] about the US and say how great their home land is...while buying imports cars....uhhhhhhhh

    Don't get me started on that type or worm...

    - Tim
  • hall2hall2 Posts: 40
    Santa and the Soldier...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,
    >>>>>> HE LIVED ALL ALONE,
    >>>>>> IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF
    >>>>>> PLASTER AND STONE.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY
    >>>>>> WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,
    >>>>>> AND TO SEE JUST WHO
    >>>>>> IN THIS HOME DID LIVE.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
    >>>>>> A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
    >>>>>> NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
    >>>>>> NOT EVEN A TREE.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
    >>>>>> JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
    >>>>>> ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
    >>>>>> OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
    >>>>>> AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
    >>>>>> A SOBER THOUGHT
    >>>>>> CAME THROUGH MY MIND.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
    >>>>>> IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
    >>>>>> I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,
    >>>>>> ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,
    >>>>>> SILENT, ALONE,
    >>>>>> CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
    >>>>>> IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
    >>>>>> THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
    >>>>>> NOT HOW I PICTURED
    >>>>>> A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> WAS THIS THE HERO
    >>>>>> OF WHOM I'D JUST READ?
    >>>>>> CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,
    >>>>>> THE FLOOR FOR A BED?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I REALIZED THE FAMILIES
    >>>>>> THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,
    >>>>>> OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS
    >>>>>> WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> SOON ROUND THE WORLD,
    >>>>>> THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,
    >>>>>> AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE
    >>>>>> A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM
    >>>>>> EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,
    >>>>>> BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,
    >>>>>> LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I COULDN'T HELP WONDER
    >>>>>> HOW MANY LAY ALONE,
    >>>>>> ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE
    >>>>>> IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THE VERY THOUGHT
    >>>>>> BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,
    >>>>>> I DROPPED TO MY KNEES
    >>>>>> AND STARTED TO CRY.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THE SOLDIER AWAKENED
    >>>>>> AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,
    >>>>>> "SANTA DON'T CRY,
    >>>>>> THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE;
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
    >>>>>> I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,
    >>>>>> MY LIFE IS MY GOD,
    >>>>>> MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER
    >>>>>> AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,
    >>>>>> I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,
    >>>>>> I CONTINUED TO WEEP.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,
    >>>>>> SO SILENT AND STILL
    >>>>>> AND WE BOTH SHIVERED
    >>>>>> FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE
    >>>>>> ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,
    >>>>>> THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR
    >>>>>> SO WILLING TO FIGHT.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,
    >>>>>> WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,
    >>>>>> WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,
    >>>>>> IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,
    >>>>>> AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT.
    >>>>>> "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,
    >>>>>> AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa Japan. The following is his request. I think it is reasonable.....
    PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many people as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our U.S. service men and women for our being able to celebrate these festivities.
  • I don't care where you all come from, I don't care what you think about individual countries.

    Today of all days, a plea to all, a more personal plea than you will ever know -

    Regardless of who was right, regardless of who was wrong - please, never forget any of them.
  • gwmooregwmoore Posts: 230
    My most respectful Veterans Day thoughts to those who offered the ultimate sacrifice.

    Although memorial parades and festivals have become fewer, and Veterans Day has become more related to a day away from work or school, I, for one, fully appreciate what our veterans have done for us.

    It makes me sick that the courage and work ethic of so many of our citizens, the ethics that America was once so famous for, have been replaced by the sick weakness of those who think their life is so hard that they want to randomly kill as many others along with themselves at shopping malls, places of work, churches, and schools. I don't think our veterans would be impressed by the plight of Harris, Klebold, Kinkel, whoever the sick freak was at Starbucks in the Southeast Mall this morning, and the like. The American revolotionaries, pioneers (think of the Donner Party), slaves, and soldiers that endured and prevailed would not be impressed by our stupid complaints and troubles.

    Let's respect our veterans by cherishing our freedoms, upholding our constitution and its ammendments , appreciating our lifestyle, and especially today, remembering our soldiers. Live our lives with honor, and honor our nation.

    And back to our topic, what could be more American than a true American Pickup?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Has anyone paid attention to where your trucks are actually built? Chevy Ford and Dodge have truck plants in the US, Canada and Mexico. Nissan builds in Georgia and Toyota only builds trucks in California and Indiana. How much are you really helping the US economy to buy a truck with Mexican or Canadian labor?

    Granted that Toyota and Nissan use some overseas parts, but the majority of the parts and final assembly is done by Americans. The line is not real crisp now and we are not living in the 1950's anymore. You can make a purchase decision on a number of objective factors such as quality of build, comfort, features, power, warranty and others. To use the "buy American" argument is to betray yourself as a person with no rational line of reasoning. It is a mute point in today's world.
  • afs11afs11 Posts: 87
    Helping American labour???

    Listen pal, US products go all over the world too!
    Are you forgetting that? I live in Canada & we import alot of US products. Canada is the USA's biggest trading parter.

    This is a two way street! Just because the USA lets some get away with unfair trade, don't blame us Canadians. Your country should be very grateful to have a great neighbour to the north!
    Most Canadians are very grateful to have you as our friends.
  • doudisdoudis Posts: 45
    I think I read earlier that something like 90% of the Toys parts are imported. Why do you think Toy builds it here. Pretty simple I think. It's to draw in suckers such as yourself who think if it's built here thats good enough for me. No I'm not happy with those cheap bastards at GM, Ford etc either going north and especially south of the border for cheap labor. I'm for the American workers not the fat cats, screw them. God knows they do it to us. Shame on you import buyers espically today of all days. Rest in peace veterens and thank you ever so much. Everything we have, had, or ever will have we owe to you.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    My apologies if I offended a Northern brother. I was not trying to imply that there is anything wrong with building cars in Canada. I was merely pointing out that many Americans get very worked up on the topic of "American made" while ignoring the fact that many Japanese label cars and trucks are more American than the domestics.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    You caught me in an exaggeration. I just checked the label on the Tacoma and Tundra. The Tunrda has 35% of its parts from North America and 50% from Japan. The Tacoma is 40% to 55% and just for comparison sake, I checked a Sienna minivan which is 60% US and 30% [non-permissible content removed]. All of these products are assembled inside our borders for domestic sale and exported abroad.

    With all due respect to our veterans (and much is due), I would love somebody to explain the patriotism behind paying money I earn for inferior quality products. I am well aware that US quality standards have been raised but it doen't take a rocket scientist to see that they still don't get it.

    As far as what company is more dedicated to the US economy, how many new factories have the domestics built in the last 15 years? Toyota has built 3 in the US and 1 in Canada plus they just completed an engine factory in West Virginia (this plant exports engines to Japan and builds the engines for all the Camrys sold in the US). Ask the people of Kentucky, West VA, Indiana and California who is more dedicated to the US worker. How many plants have been moved beyond our borders by the big 3 in the past 15 years?

    I agree that we owe a debt to our veterans. They died for our freedom but not for xenophobia. We do them a disservice to claim that because they fought in far away lands that we must buy inferior products. Waiving the flag to promote a car company is a disgrace.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    Silverado was built in Pontiac,Michigan....

    Is that canada??

    - Tim
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Thanks for lightening the mood. I nearly certain that Pontiac Michigan is not in Canada. Check a map and let me know.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    my truck has so many problems....manufactured in Fort Wayne. '00 Silverado 5 new General tires today.
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    Japan builds vehicles here to get around the import tariff. I suspect the labor in Indiana may be cheaper than in Japan (don't try and draw a conclusion here, there isn't one).

    Every company mentioned in this topic is a GLOBAL company, buying, building and selling their product in many of the worlds nations. Even the profits do not necessarily stay in the country of a manufacturers origin. Stock owners are not limited to the country where they are traded.

    Once, commerce shared political borders. Those days are going quick. If any effort is needed on this subject it's to get every country to open its markets to free trade.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    The Marshall plan was devised to help bolster the US economy. We needed exports to survive and still do. This country has always had exports and alway will. Name me one country in history that hasn't used exports for growth.
    As a natural-born citizen, it is my God and Contitutional RIGHT to [non-permissible content removed]. Who challenges this? WHO? If you do, then you know nothing of this country. The president and PC thinkers are what is wrong with this country, not which truck you buy. What a bunch of naive people.....
    I was a Marine and now a roofer (which some feel is the same line of work) and own many US-made trucks. I also own other products that weren't American origin--which has never bothered me.
    Jingoism never works when dollars are at issue. If you feel better because it says:DODGE and made in Mexico then so be it. Just make sure you don't wear you're Pakistan-made shirt to bed.
    Practice what you preach and then I'll respect you. There are options to foreign-made items--even if unseemingly possible. Trust me. Curtis Mathes ring a bell??? Until then, give it a rest.

    Now stop looking through that Korean-made monitor!!! ;)
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    your----not you're
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    That Korean made monitor "line" is mine Roc.

    BTW I happen to totally agree with you.
  • My father was a Marine who saw action in the pacific during W.W.2.He was as American as you could get he loved this country and I will remember him this day.BUT...he loved his TOYOTA!!He said the reason he fought was so Americans today COULD buy whay they wan't THAT IS TRUE FREEDOM.You so called patriots that think that buying an American pick-up somehow makes you a true American are nothing but shallow,phoney wanna-be's.Buy what makes you happy and proud.I love Toyotas because they ARE great automobiles.I wish this country would make something other then junk,until they do Ill stick to the Japanese.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    Is not in Canada??

    Well I've lived in Michigan all my life...and I could swear it was Canada??

    Hmmmm

    That's odd...

    Is Fort Wayne Canada too?


    - Tim
  • You guys whose reason for buying American trucks is because your uncles and granddads were killed and tortured overseas 50 years ago ... think about this. A little more than 100 years ago, the Union Army was killing my great-granddads and great-great uncles down here in the South. Using the logic you present here, I should not buy from companies based in Detroit. So I guess we Southerners have to choose between two evils, huh? Gosh, we've even got an evil FORD TRUCK plant right here in Virginia!!! Arggghhhh!!!
  • I drive a Dodge. It was built in Michigan. I live in Canada. When living in Europe I have driven French, Italian, German and at one point Malaysian. My son drives Japanese (Suzuki). I have owned Honda motorcycles.

    I have seen conflict and I have lost close friends. My father still suffers from injuries he received in battle.

    My background is offered only to show that I have no bigotry, though maybe I have cause according to the arguments of some on this topic.

    My views on the Tundra have been well documented in other topics, I would never buy one. However this is not based upon it being built by a Japanese company. I want a truck that is built safely, and will do the job that it is designed to do. I care that my axles aren't going to collapse, I care that my wheel nuts don't shear. I don't care where they are made.

    The assembly of a truck is almost irrelevant in terms of cost, the actual person hours it takes in any modern plant is minimal. We should all be glad that foreign companies are investing in North America, we should all be glad that American companies are investing elsewhere.

    But let's remember one thing - none of the companies care about anything other than their profits. Everything else is driven by that. Japanese car companies got a tremendous amount of credit around 15 years ago for investing huge amounts of money in NE England. They built huge plants and retrained recently unemployed shipyard workers. Why did they do it - because the UK government gave them huge subsidies that are still being enjoyed to this day.

    Why do US companies invest in plants in South America - because labor is cheaper, and there are fewer union rules which make it cheaper for new initiatives to be implemented.

    If you feel more comfortable buying US then I respect that, but their appears to be huge disagreement on what is American - is it a US company regardless of where built, or is it a foreign truck built in US.

    And here's another thought that no one has yet mentioned. Both here in Canada and in the US the countries are as great as they are because of immigrants. Just look at the percentage of South American, European (myself included) and Asian immigrants in both countries. They (we) have contributed huge amounts to North America - are we any less American or Canadian just because we were born elsewhere?

    OK so it was nearer .05, but I feel better for it.
  • doudisdoudis Posts: 45
    Ok guys I agree that buying strictly American is next to impossible. Here something that has always stuck with me. I grew up in Detroit (Taylor, MI) so yes I'm biased. Anyway one day they were interviewing Lee Iaccoa about how the [non-permissible content removed] got to where they are in the world market. He basically said that they have spent the last 40 years or so using their resource such as scientist, manufacturing, research etc. to build products to enhance the pleasures of life, Sony Toyota etc. He further stated that in our country those recourses were directed towards building a better bomb, enhancing the military etc.!! Is this a choice we made? No I don't think so. If we didn't do what we did we'd probably still be entrenched in the cold war or worse. That interview was done in about 1980. I'm trying to accept the [non-permissible content removed] products for what they are but I just can't justify buying them as long as GM or Ford have a decent product to choose from. God bless America. You all have the right to buy whatever you want. Why do you post here? I post in an attempt to convice people to be patroitic and buy American whenever possible. Do you feel a little guilty maybe?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    There is no such thing as "American" any longer. Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda, whomever build/buy parts and aftermarket parts from vendors all over the United States and the world at that. The car industry used to play a huge role in economics, not any longer, those days are gone, long gone.
    I buy the BEST product for the money I earn. heck, I work for a Japanese company but own two "
    American" cars. I have visited Japan on several occassions for training. The Japanese people are an isolated society and they like it that way. Diversity is not their way. And yes, I have run into Japanese folks who hate Americans with a passion. But at the same time we have folks here that feel the same towards the Japanese. In the same I have run into Japanese who are polite, humble and extremely gracious. We live in the best country in the world. We have so many products to choose from its like a candy store with the car market. When Japanese come here to the U.S. they immediatly want to shop. They want to see the aisles and aisles of products to choose from.
    One country I would be afraid of, very afraid of is China. We are feeding a Giant with our dollars. A Giant I believe someday will take a swing at us. I do try, try very hard not to buy products made in China.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    doudis,
    Guilt? I don't know.....Do you have any guilt going to a discount store and buy clothing made by virtual servants with American flags but really made in America Samoa where labor laws are null and void? Our own territories are exempt from our labor laws--guilt? Do you have any guilt for buying an American truck without demanding that it's made here and not in Mexico? Canada? Does anyone here have any guilt for owning mutual funds that contain companies that make products overseas? Does your 401k plan have any guilt? Does your broker? Do you have any guilt when hooking up your trailer to your Japanese-made wiring? Any guilt yet? Any guilt in buying food from a major whore in Food processing like Archer Daniels while the independent farmer gets shafted? ANy guilt? DO you have any guilt from buying gas from a station that pays their employees 6/hour and reap huge profits but claims they can't pay 8?!!?? Does anyone have any guilt for chemicals made from resources from overseas? Hell, most of our oil is FOREIGN!!! WE SHOULD SUPPORT OUR TEXAS AND ALASKAN OILMEN!!!! WHY Give profits to the Arabs???

    Life gets complicated if one opens their eyes to a hyprocritical buying philosophy.

    doudis.....any guilt?

    Roc
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Why do we post here? Because that is the topic you silly person. Isn't the idea to exchange different views of a particular topic or do we all need to sit around waiving a flag with blinders on?
  • hall2hall2 Posts: 40
    My monitor is an IBM but it is made by SONY (Japanese). My mouse is an IBM, but it is manufacture in CHINA. Isn't IBM an American Company? I guess I'm a patriotic American since I buy American product.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    doudis,
    Of course I own "domestic" trucks--name me one company other than the big 3 to fill my needs? I own many "American" products--probably more than you. Most of my tools are American in origin as well as many of my home products.
    Did your comment get to me? Sure--Why? Well, I find it laughable that I should feel ANY guilt buying what I like, regardless of origin. By the way, it is NOT impossible to go through life and buy Foreign. Hard but not impossible for my TV--CM.
    Do I like to fight? No, not really but ignorant statements get to me and I tend to voice my opinion. I feel its the "American" way! If you saw me in real-life, most here would state that I would be the ultimate poster-boy for USA-made goods. Hell, I could be the true working-class hero done "good" for a tv movie!
    Let's see: grew up in NC rather poor and joined the Marines, realized that it sucked and followed a girl to Philly and got dumped--went to college at night (St.Joe's) while slumming during the day with a union-roofer job. (fun--that's when I started to hate unions) Got out of college and became enlightened (and empowered) to start my own firm (me and my brother) and began shingling. I busted my [non-permissible content removed] for around ten years until my buisness was big enough to help put a roof on the Mellon Bank center where I discovered my future wife. Yada Yada Yada............Look me up--it's real, unlike some others here.....

    I'm full-blooded American. I have earned every right to buy what I want--no matter of origin. To me, it's principle, I don't knock people for doing it although I tend not to myself. I don't "pick" fights, rather, I defend captialism and a free economy--which I have benefited from. I also can't stand jingoism, this is what happens when you wake up and realize that the libertarian party isn't as cooky as you once thought....

    Roc
  • mznmzn Posts: 727
    May I say a belated thank you for the kind words said about veterans? Yes, veterans are largely forgotten and as a female veteran with a service-connected disability, I can tell you that I'm positively invisible.

    carlady/roving host
This discussion has been closed.