Hello guys, I live up in Ft McMurray, Alberta and have imported vehicles from the US, when I lived in Abbotsford, BC....
Quote "Warranty coverage is applicable to any vehicle registered and normally operated within the United States, Alaska and Canada.If the vehicle is relocated outside the United States, Alaska, or Canada, The local dealership may not provide warranty service because the local Toyota distributor may have no obligation to provide warranty service to your vehicle.
Notice it says in underline applicable to any vehicle in US, Alaska & Canada if relocated outside.... In the case of a 92 MR2 I bought, in 94 they did validate the warranty but in some cases I did have to wait a bit for parts not normally stocked by the dealer.
As for the concerns over ....
Additionally, your Toyota vehicle may not comply with the regulatory and / or environmental requirements of certain countries. please contact the local Toyota distributor applicable to your area for more information.
You can go to a Transport Canada website and see what needs to happen to bring your car into Canada from the US in terms or modifications or if it is possible at all. The URL is Transport Canada
As I understand the only thing ALL car dealers do not want people to do is buy a new car in either country turn around and sell it in the other country. I asked @ Valley Toyota in Chilliwack, BC and they said they do check names against a black list of people who import and then turn around and sell new models in the other country, and they will be fined by Toyota if they are caught, in the reverse of selling a car to myself to take to the US to sell. However I cannot remember the time line for being "new" is as I was told as my MR2 was not "new" I could do with it what I wanted.
On the Smart Shopper message board there is a discussion on importing U.S. vehicles into Canada (and one on the reverse arrangement) that covers warranty issues, taxes, importing requirements, etc. for various makes. FWIW there is a post there that says U.S. Toyotas do have warranty coverage in Canada. However, I would confirm this with Toyota Canada and not go by what Toyota U.S. says.
Netwon, that is very useful information, thank you. I hope you'll drop by the Smart Shopper discussion that has been mentioned and make a similar post there. It will reach beyond the Avalon audience and be very helpful to the community overall.
Time share?! After paying BC prices for my Avalon you think I have money lying around for a timeshare! Sorry havalongavalon. You'll have to count me out.
By the way after 3 days in the shop I think they may have finally fixed my rear parcel shelf rattle. They sent my Avalon to the body shop. It had something to do with a pinch weld. If their fix doesn't work they are threatening to pull out my rear window and reweld it. Sorry about the simple explanation. That is what they told me. It has been rattle free in that area for the entire day.
In the meantime they rented me a Toyota Matrix. No offense to Matrix owner's but man I have a renewed appreciation for my Avalon if that is possible.
I took my first long drive (~ 600 miles RT) going up through Colville and Rossland to Trail and Castlegar and back through Boundary. The roads were absolutely terrible, however, not one rattle! Averaged 31 mpg on the trip from Spokane and back. Terrific ride!!
I had the same problem. I parked the car for about 3 hours and the battery went dead. I put it on a charger and all the lights came on instantly but the car wouldn't start till a charge built up. The dealer replaced the battery and the car has been fine. Shortly after, I got 10 beeps every time I started the car. Dealer was stumped but finally tracked it to a malfunctioning LR door lock. They didn't know if the two were related. They said some batteries are bad even when new.
About once every 6 months, my A/C will stert to blow hot air. I fiddle with the switches and it goes back to normal. Never bothered to tell the dealer cause it's no big deal.
My ES 330 only has 20K miles and has been trouble-free, I just like to change cars every couple of years. Thanks to Lexus resale value, I can get the Avalon for only about $4.K out of pocket.
Quality aside, I think you get more of everything for your money with the Avalon (except trunk space, that is), e.g., stronger engine, better looking exterior and interior, much more room in the back seat, etc. Mine is being built today and will be delivered later this month.
I looked closely at Chrysler 300C, Hyundai Azera, Lexus ES 350 and Buick Lucerne before choosing an Avalon Limited. I narrowed that list down to the Avalon, Lucerne and Lexus,then made a decision matrix in Excel listing the 14 features that are most important to me and weighted each one for importance. Avalon came out the clear winner, with Lucerne running second. When I looked only at the features rated first and second in importance, Avalon tied with Lexus. FYI, those features are: - Feels good when you drive it - Good resale value - Good body design - Good navigation system - "The prestige factor" when driving it (call me shallow)
After wading through the thousands of posts here and noting reported problems with the Avalon tranny and rattles, I still think I made the right choice. My only concern now, however, are reports that the Ltd. seats may be uncomfortable due to the cooling fan. If that proves to be true, I plan to have an auto upholstery shop add more padding.
I have a nav in the Lexus and am getting one in the Avalon, too. Beyond the usual stuff, I'm having body side molding installed and I plan to add a back-up camera and back-up sensors after I get the car.
Good luck with you purchase decision. I hope we'll both be happy.
Ummm, I agree with most everything you say -but if I were you, I would really check out Avalon's nav system if you think it's good. It is (in my humble opinion) difficult to use because of it's "joystick" type button needed to control the cursor. You cannot touch the screen to quickly enter data, (unlike my Solara convertible which is good since you can quickly enter data -even phone number searches that apparently are not available in the Avalon). So it becomes quite a chore do do simple executions.
For example, if you enter an address number and make a mistake, you'll have to "move" your cursor all the way to the right and target the delete button and delete your wrong entry. At least it would have been nice if you could scroll to the left to get to the right side (similarly to entering your name in video game console, if you know what I mean).
It does have voice commands though, but so far I find that a little limited. You can't enter addresses with the voice command either, so you're stuck with the "button" to do so.
As much as I love the Avalon nav, I wouldn't call it good. I still love my Avalon, but have these mixed emotions about the nav system -of which I expected better.
However, I do wish you good luck with your new car -it is a good one.
Actually, it's just a guess. But the dealer told me that it is "scheduled to go to ground transport" on Monday, so I assumed it was being built the previous work day.
Thanks for your input. The bottom line is that I want a nav and Toyota's is the only game in town for a factory built-in.
Actually, one reason I was serious about a Lucerne was the new OnStar voice nav called Turn-by-turn. No screen, all voice input with excellent recognition by the software. Minimum distraction while driving. Costs about $35/month, but that's still cheaper for a 2-3 year car owner than buying a screen type.
First let me explain that I am currently in North Africa. This morning my wife went outside to pick up the news paper and she notices that flashing lights are happening in our garage. The Avalon, 06 Limited w/3000 miles and 6 months old, has been sitting in the garage since I left home 3 weeks ago. My wife reads the manual and pushes back in the hazard flasher and obviously the flashing stops. She explained to me that we now a little red car lighted on the instrument panel. I think this must be the service reminder.
As I do not have access to the manual is this normal? I have never heard of emergency flashers starting up on their on. Would leaving the key fob in the car have anything to do with this?
First post. Found this forum after I purchased an '06 Avalon XL four months ago. Got to test drive an ES 350 yesterday. Some observations:
1. Cowl on ES 350 is higher. Similar to GS series. View from the Avalon is more expansive. 2. A-pillar feels close to your head. Not so in the Avalon. 3. Rear seat legroom significantly less than Avalon. Narrower feeling, too. Did not notice any rear seat reading lamps. Seemed to have 2 LEDs for ambient lighting, but could not find any switches. 4. No rear door pockets on ES. 5. Same trunk hinges as Avalon. Trunk pass through parts looked identical. 6. I've experienced the transmission hesitation with my Avalon that has been the subject of extensive discussion in this forum. Funny, when I test drove the Avalon months before purchase, I had not noticed it. I tried to recreate the situations in the ES 350 that cause hesitation in the Avalon, such as accelerating after speed bumps. I felt no such hesitation in the ES 350's six-speed, although the car overall felt a tad more sluggish than my Avalon. 7. Noticed only one DC outlet in console and it seemed even less accessible than in Avalon. MP3 plug not readily apparent. The console had less usable space, although a small drawer for change to the left of the steering column is nice. Door pockets in front did not tilt out. 8. Trunk & gas door switches illuminated in the ES 350. Instrument panel lighting switch was not. 9. Seats in ES 350 felt more comfortable. A better fit. I find the front seats in the '06 Avalon less comfortable than my previous '95 Avalon. Too hard, too flat, no lateral support. 10. Electric tilt/telescope adjustment signicantly better in ES 350. 11. Passenger seat adjustment superior to the Avalon XL or even the Limited. 12. Didn't notice any significant difference in NVH between the 2 cars.
I've come to appreciate the information exchanged on the forum. It is more useful to focus on pooling knowledge and experience than on sniping. My thanks to all that take the time to write. I've enjoyed reading. I hope now to be a more engaged participant.
re: "I'm sure it will be impossible to get a new ES350 at much below MSRP..."
Before I decided on the Avalon, the Sales Manager who sold me my current ES330 offered me a new $40,800 ES350 last week at a $2,000 discount. Said I wouldn't be able to get that anywhere else. I tend to believe him. I did try another dealer, who told me I'd probably have to wait until they had "15 unsold ES350s around" before he could try to match that.
Re: How did you purchase the Avalon for $300 over invoice and how do you know what invoice price is?
The only way to be certain about your deal is to start from the ground up instead of from the top down, i.e., how much over invoice is it? Go to Edmunds.com and you can find out what the invoice price is. Note that this is not really what it costs the dealer. The factory gives the dealer a “holdback” that is usually 2% of the base MSRP for Toyotas. The dealer considers this item sacred and will not give any of to you. Beyond that, the dealer may get other factory incentives.
Once I knew what model and options I wanted, I contacted several nearby Toyota dealers and asked to speak with the Sales Manager – you can often do this by email, too. My suggestion is that you try to deal with the sales manager or the Internet sales manager, if possible, since salesmen are not in a position to commit to anything without their approval. I told the manager I was ready to buy now and the model and options I wanted. I then asked if he would sell me the car at $300 over the invoice price, whatever that came to (also assuming that there were no hidden add-ons for paperwork, document handling, etc.)
The car I purchased MSRP's at $37,294. Invoice is $33,594, for a difference of $3,700. My price is thus $33,894, plus $218 license and registration. No sales tax in Oregon. I'm very happy with that, although I suppose I could have bargained for a lower markup knowing that the dealer still makes at least a 2% holdback over invoice no matter what. Buy, hey, I believe that a car purchase must be fair for all concerned.
After we agreed on the deal, I decided I wanted the body side moldings and the dealer added them to the options list for the port people to install. As I recall, they are only about $195. I can’t tell you how they look yet, since the car won’t be delivered for 3 or 4 weeks. For a picture, try doing a Google search using "Toyota Avalon Body Side Moldings" or some such words.
Just dropped in to say bye to my forum buddies. Yesterday I was almost hit by another car when my Avalon hesitated and then surged as I tried to quickly merge into fast traffic. That was the last straw. Today I traded it in on a superior piece of machinery from Japan's number 2 automaker. In a moment of temporary insanity, I had briefly considered a Lexus ES350, but with the new 6-speed transmission failures evident in the Camry, I quickly came to my senses as I can't place further confidence in Toyota. Regretfully, I've had a horrible experience with the Avalon :lemon: and after 11 Toyotas, it is now time to move on to something else. Toyota's Customer Service talks nice but does nothing. The only positive thing I can say is that the Avalon held it's value and I didn't lose a dime on it. I hope the rest of you have better luck with your Avalons.
Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with your Avalon. I haven't experienced the big hesitation thing you have. I did have trouble in the beginning when it seemed to shift a bit rough but I was one of those who benefited from the move your seat ahead, adjust your foot on the gas pedal fixes, and haven't had any trouble since. Don't even think about it. What did you actually trade your Avalon for. I can't remember what you were looking at.
Sad to say, I've been following your issues on this forum for quite some time. What would happen if everyone who experiences or has experienced similar incidents reported it to the NHTSA at
When I raised the issue with my dealer at warranty service, the official response was "Vehicle operating as designed". Does that then make it a safety-related design defect?
Hi Alan, I'm one of the those who have followed your sad story and I would like to say that I understand your frustration and disappointment. I believe that you got one of those unfortunate automobiles that was assembled poorly and where everything combined to go wrong. Fortunately, that has never happened to me after 40 some cars, but it sure hit you.
Where we differ, however, is that you seem to believe that Toyota just doesn't make quality products. The two years I have owned my Lexus lead me to believe otherwise. You got a lemon, but I believe that is the exception rather than the rule and that it can happen to any manufacturer. I sincerely hope that I am right and that you are wrong, since I am scheduled to take delivery of my new Avalon Limited in the next few weeks. Time will tell and if all does go to pot, at least we can fall back on the excellent resale value you mentioned.
I wish you the best of luck with your new car and no hard feelings for your efforts to keep us all informed.
My company ordered a Blizzard Pearl XL for me on 1/30/06. At the time the lease company said it would be 16-18 weeks.
Just got a leeter form the lease cokmpany dated 4/17 that my vehicle is "released for shipment" (shipped?). At that it should be at the dealer in 10-21 days.
Loks like 11 weeks to build and 12-14 until delivery.
Still haven't had any luck finding wiper refills for my 2006 Avalon Limited. I appreciate the replies posted but still - no joy. Went to 2 of the 3 Toyota dealers here in town. Both had none in stock and confessed to me that their parts system only has the full blade assembly for the driver side - $33 retail. The parts manager at one of the Toyota dealerships confided that they've had no call for them until I arrived. The major parts retailers in town don't even have the 05 or 06 Avalon in their books. Employees there came out to look at the blade and had this amazed look on their faces. Comments such as "never seen one like that before" were numerous and they even called all their buddies out to take a look. Turned into a "lets see the inside" and "lets see under the hood" type of showcase. At any rate, here I am, faced with either replacing the entire blade for $33 or waiting til someone produces an OEM wiper refill. It isn't like this is a part that you may or may not need in the lifetime of the car. Everyone's gonna need a pair occasionally......
I too have followed your post and could feel your stress and disappointment. It was good to read that you didn't have to take a loss. That may not be a happy ending but it's not a bad one either.
Wish you the best of luck on your replacement (Honda / Acura?).
I just took my Limited on 600mile trip seems to operate more smoothly. Had 4 Men with gear and all were happy and impressed. I believe the system must have learned something. Got over 33 mpg on the way...
As do others here I wish you the best with a new make. Your problems apparently are very real and an answer is needed. Good to see you had many acceptable Toyotas in the past. My experience has been positive with both a '99 XL and an '03 XL.
Before the year is over I will probably buy a new car and there are only a few on my list, Avalon included. But the problems with the transmission are obvious and will be a factor as will be a l-o-n-g test drive. Thanks for the input.
Would like to hear whether Limited owners really feel they got their money's worth for the extra $2,500+ compared to the XLS model - or, if you had it to do over, would you have pocketed the savings and been just as satisfied with the XLS model? (I'm trying to decide whether the extra cost is worth it or not.) Thx!
try anythingtoyota.com - a dealer in Houston - keeps a very large inventory, does discount the parts, and ships nationally. and yep, have yet to find anything, even regular maintainence items, avalaible 3rd party yet. Did have the same experience at my local dealer, they have no idea of what parts fit the car!
I have an '05 Limited. Wouldn't have it any other way. I love ALL the features. Besides the performance, the amenities are what makes the car - to me. To each his/her own :shades: .
Wife and I both drive our 2005 Avalon regularly, so for us, the memory seat was essential. We have 2000 Avalon XLS with seat memory, and couldn't live without it. So - that forced us to the Limited.
But, I also like the laser-assisted cruise control. Other goodies seem less important, but you do get used to having all the toys. I've never regretted buying too much car.
Automotive News has a lead article on the lack of quality in the 2005 and up Avalon in today's issue (May 1). For those of you who have read it, what do you think?
Looks like Automotive news follows these discussions and decided that Alan's sad story might represent a new trend in quality for Toyota. Since I'm not a subscriber, I could only read the first few lines of the story. Is there anything new there and does the author provide any other sources?
got to be one in the same - and good for him. Even Toyota needs a lesson every now and again, alan_s certainly gave them their chances over the last several months. Hope he is enjoying his new 'M'.
LOS ANGELES -- Alan Seider has owned 11 Toyotas since 1982, but his 2006 Avalon likely will be his last.
He says quality glitches have bedeviled his Toyota sedan, which he has driven less than 6,000 miles since he bought it last July. His dealer could not solve the car's problems. Toyota headquarters stonewalled his appeals, he says.
"There have been significant throttle control and transmission hesitation issues," says Seider, 45, a computer consultant from Roswell, Ga. "I've isolated 15 different rattles in the body work."
Seider is far from alone. Internet chat rooms such as Edmunds.com Town Hall are littered with complaints from Toyota loyalists about the redesigned Avalon, which went on sale in February 2005.
The Avalon's launch problems point to a larger issue. To meet demand, Toyota has added factories in North America and thousands of new employees. Executives are worried that Toyota's rapid growth may dilute its quality standards.
Toyota and Lexus divisions still exceed industry averages in various studies that measure quality. Toyota predicts that the Avalon will score well in J.D. Power and Associates' Initial Quality Study, to be released in June.
But the quality gap is closing. And Toyota recalls have spiked in the last two years.
Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.
The Avalon is the Toyota brand's most-expensive car, starting at $27,355 including destination charges. The redesigned 2005 model was embraced by consumers; Toyota sold 95,318 Avalons last year in the United States, up from 36,460 in 2004. Avalon sales peaked in 2000 at 104,078 units. It is assembled at Toyota's Georgetown, Ky., plant, alongside the Camry and Camry Solara.
It's a car-buying axiom that one should never buy a car in its first year of production, before the bugs are worked out. But in recent years Toyota and Honda largely disproved that old saw, delivering nearly bulletproof vehicles from Job 1.
Now the Avalon redesign is showing that even mighty Toyota can slip up.
Kevin Clingenpeel, a 37-year-old insurance litigator from Fort Mill, S.C., loved his Avalon for the first 2,000 miles. Then the transmission shifts became erratic, especially in cold weather. The engine developed a persistent knock, which could not be cured by changing grades of gasoline or by using a fuel-injector cleaner.
"I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota.
Clingenpeel says his dealer gave the car "a wink and a nod" when he brought it in three times for repairs. Clingenpeel then appealed to Toyota headquarters to send out a district service manager. Toyota refused. Now Clingenpeel is looking to sell the car.
"It's sad because there's a nice car hiding behind all this," Clingenpeel said. "But this is not up to snuff from what I would consider from Toyota."
The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.
While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.
Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.
"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else."
But Hanson acknowledged that Toyota has been concerned with the initial wave of quality problems for the car. Toyota's priority has been to find and remedy problems, get the fixes to the production line, and issue technical service bulletins so dealers can fix the faults on vehicles already on the road.
"The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.
The Avalon's transmission lurch is especially noticeable in low-speed crawls during rush hour, Hanson said. Previous Avalons had problems shifting smoothly at high speed with high engine revs. Toyota fixed the high-speed lurch by changing software algorithms, but the adjustment caused a low-speed lurch.
The low-speed problem "is all software," Hanson says.
Some customers are voting with their feet. In Seider's case, he replaced his wife's Toyota Sienna minivan with a Honda Pilot. He doubts he will replace the Avalon with another Toyota.
Said Seider: "I am so disappointed in Toyota. I've had previous first-year vehicles, but nothing like this ever happened. Toyota's build quality has declined in recent years, and there seems to be nothing the dealer can do. Toyota has reached a size that they've lost sight of the individual customer."
Good thing Mr. & Mrs. Seider did not buy another Sienna - I did buy a loaded 2005 Sienna and had to sell it soon after due to a steering column tilted to one side which caused me bad neck and upper back pain. Despite my bad experience, I thought about an Avalon and the Buick Lucerne, but neither has a big enough trunk to be my work car, so I was considering a RAV4, but this article has ended any thoughs I might have about buying another Toyota or Lexus. Once the updated 2008 Five Hundred and Montego with the new appearance, new 265HP 250 Ft. Lbs V6 and new 6 speed automatic are on dealer lots, Toyota will be loosing even more customers to Ford.
Toyota will be loosing even more customers to Ford.
Since when has Toyota been losing customers to Ford ? Your statements is absurd and hilarious at the same time. You could put a jet engine in the 500 and most people still would prefer an Avalon over the 500.
that would be if Ford stays in business long enough make it to the 08 model year. That engine has been promised ever since the 500 came to market, is still supposedly years away, and the 500 hasn't even been able to pick up all those lost Hertz Taurus 'sales'. Toyota has picked up gobs of market share over the last several years (primarily from the 'Big 3') to the point that it is now the world's largest CARmaker and may as this article notes be simply expanding too fast. But, if Toyota is going to suffer from some lost sales for whatever reason, it won't likely be to the benefit of the 'US' Brands - can you say - Nissan, Honda, Hyundai etc. and possibly some Chinese brands due in this country about the same time that Ford can finally get around to making a decent small engine. GM, of course, in worse shape.
Comments
I live up in Ft McMurray, Alberta and have imported vehicles from the US, when I lived in Abbotsford, BC....
Quote "Warranty coverage is applicable to any vehicle registered and normally operated within the United States,
Alaska and Canada.If the vehicle is relocated outside the United States, Alaska, or Canada, The local dealership may not provide warranty service because the local Toyota distributor may have no obligation to provide warranty service to your vehicle.
Notice it says in underline applicable to any vehicle in US, Alaska & Canada if relocated outside....
In the case of a 92 MR2 I bought, in 94 they did validate the warranty but in some cases I did have to wait a bit for parts not normally stocked by the dealer.
As for the concerns over ....
Additionally, your Toyota vehicle may not comply with the regulatory and / or environmental requirements of certain countries. please contact the local Toyota distributor applicable to your area for more information.
You can go to a Transport Canada website and see what needs to happen to bring your car into Canada from the US in terms or modifications or if it is possible at all. The URL is Transport Canada
As I understand the only thing ALL car dealers do not want people to do is buy a new car in either country turn around and sell it in the other country. I asked @ Valley Toyota in Chilliwack, BC and they said they do check names against a black list of people who import and then turn around and sell new models in the other country, and they will be fined by Toyota if they are caught, in the reverse of selling a car to myself to take to the US to sell. However I cannot remember the time line for being "new" is as I was told as my MR2 was not "new" I could do with it what I wanted.
Hope that helps sorry for the long post,
Netwon
Here's the link: Importing Car into Canada from US.
Thanks!
Thank you again, gladiator99, for starting us on this quest!
havalongavalon
By the way after 3 days in the shop I think they may have finally fixed my rear parcel shelf rattle. They sent my Avalon to the body shop. It had something to do with a pinch weld. If their fix doesn't work they are threatening to pull out my rear window and reweld it. Sorry about the simple explanation. That is what they told me. It has been rattle free in that area for the entire day.
In the meantime they rented me a Toyota Matrix. No offense to Matrix owner's but man I have a renewed appreciation for my Avalon if that is possible.
MelBC
My ES 330 only has 20K miles and has been trouble-free, I just like to change cars every couple of years. Thanks to Lexus resale value, I can get the Avalon for only about $4.K out of pocket.
Quality aside, I think you get more of everything for your money with the Avalon (except trunk space, that is), e.g., stronger engine, better looking exterior and interior, much more room in the back seat, etc. Mine is being built today and will be delivered later this month.
I looked closely at Chrysler 300C, Hyundai Azera, Lexus ES 350 and Buick Lucerne before choosing an Avalon Limited. I narrowed that list down to the Avalon, Lucerne and Lexus,then made a decision matrix in Excel listing the 14 features that are most important to me and weighted each one for importance. Avalon came out the clear winner, with Lucerne running second. When I looked only at the features rated first and second in importance, Avalon tied with Lexus. FYI, those features are:
- Feels good when you drive it
- Good resale value
- Good body design
- Good navigation system
- "The prestige factor" when driving it (call me shallow)
After wading through the thousands of posts here and noting reported problems with the Avalon tranny and rattles, I still think I made the right choice. My only concern now, however, are reports that the Ltd. seats may be uncomfortable due to the cooling fan. If that proves to be true, I plan to have an auto upholstery shop add more padding.
I have a nav in the Lexus and am getting one in the Avalon, too. Beyond the usual stuff, I'm having body side molding installed and I plan to add a back-up camera and back-up sensors after I get the car.
Good luck with you purchase decision. I hope we'll both be happy.
Dandydon2
Ummm, I agree with most everything you say -but if I were you, I would really check out Avalon's nav system if you think it's good. It is (in my humble opinion) difficult to use because of it's "joystick" type button needed to control the cursor. You cannot touch the screen to quickly enter data, (unlike my Solara convertible which is good since you can quickly enter data -even phone number searches that apparently are not available in the Avalon). So it becomes quite a chore do do simple executions.
For example, if you enter an address number and make a mistake, you'll have to "move" your cursor all the way to the right and target the delete button and delete your wrong entry. At least it would have been nice if you could scroll to the left to get to the right side (similarly to entering your name in video game console, if you know what I mean).
It does have voice commands though, but so far I find that a little limited. You can't enter addresses with the voice command either, so you're stuck with the "button" to do so.
As much as I love the Avalon nav, I wouldn't call it good.
I still love my Avalon, but have these mixed emotions about the nav system -of which I expected better.
However, I do wish you good luck with your new car -it is a good one.
-Pete
Actually, it's just a guess. But the dealer told me that it is "scheduled to go to ground transport" on Monday, so I assumed it was being built the previous work day.
Thanks for your input. The bottom line is that I want a nav and Toyota's is the only game in town for a factory built-in.
Actually, one reason I was serious about a Lucerne was the new OnStar voice nav called Turn-by-turn. No screen, all voice input with excellent recognition by the software. Minimum distraction while driving. Costs about $35/month, but that's still cheaper for a 2-3 year car owner than buying a screen type.
Don
As I do not have access to the manual is this normal? I have never heard of emergency flashers starting up on their on. Would leaving the key fob in the car have anything to do with this?
Any help would be appreciated
1. Cowl on ES 350 is higher. Similar to GS series. View from the Avalon is more expansive.
2. A-pillar feels close to your head. Not so in the Avalon.
3. Rear seat legroom significantly less than Avalon. Narrower feeling, too. Did not notice any rear seat reading lamps. Seemed to have 2 LEDs for ambient lighting, but could not find any switches.
4. No rear door pockets on ES.
5. Same trunk hinges as Avalon. Trunk pass through parts looked identical.
6. I've experienced the transmission hesitation with my Avalon that has been the subject of extensive discussion in this forum. Funny, when I test drove the Avalon months before purchase, I had not noticed it. I tried to recreate the situations in the ES 350 that cause hesitation in the Avalon, such as accelerating after speed bumps. I felt no such hesitation in the ES 350's six-speed, although the car overall felt a tad more sluggish than my Avalon.
7. Noticed only one DC outlet in console and it seemed even less accessible than in Avalon. MP3 plug not readily apparent. The console had less usable space, although a small drawer for change to the left of the steering column is nice. Door pockets in front did not tilt out.
8. Trunk & gas door switches illuminated in the ES 350. Instrument panel lighting switch was not.
9. Seats in ES 350 felt more comfortable. A better fit. I find the front seats in the '06 Avalon less comfortable than my previous '95 Avalon. Too hard, too flat, no lateral support.
10. Electric tilt/telescope adjustment signicantly better in ES 350.
11. Passenger seat adjustment superior to the Avalon XL or even the Limited.
12. Didn't notice any significant difference in NVH between the 2 cars.
I've come to appreciate the information exchanged on the forum. It is more useful to focus on pooling knowledge and experience than on sniping. My thanks to all that take the time to write. I've enjoyed reading. I hope now to be a more engaged participant.
Before I decided on the Avalon, the Sales Manager who sold me my current ES330 offered me a new $40,800 ES350 last week at a $2,000 discount. Said I wouldn't be able to get that anywhere else. I tend to believe him. I did try another dealer, who told me I'd probably have to wait until they had "15 unsold ES350s around" before he could try to match that.
That happened to me with a Chrysler 300. Problem was that I had manually switched the interior lights on without realizing it when cleaning the dash.
Also happened with my ES330. In that case, I had left one door slightly ajar and the dome light remained on.
The only way to be certain about your deal is to start from the ground up instead of from the top down, i.e., how much over invoice is it? Go to Edmunds.com and you can find out what the invoice price is. Note that this is not really what it costs the dealer. The factory gives the dealer a “holdback” that is usually 2% of the base MSRP for Toyotas. The dealer considers this item sacred and will not give any of to you. Beyond that, the dealer may get other factory incentives.
Once I knew what model and options I wanted, I contacted several nearby Toyota dealers and asked to speak with the Sales Manager – you can often do this by email, too. My suggestion is that you try to deal with the sales manager or the Internet sales manager, if possible, since salesmen are not in a position to commit to anything without their approval. I told the manager I was ready to buy now and the model and options I wanted. I then asked if he would sell me the car at $300 over the invoice price, whatever that came to (also assuming that there were no hidden add-ons for paperwork, document handling, etc.)
The car I purchased MSRP's at $37,294. Invoice is $33,594, for a difference of $3,700. My price is thus $33,894, plus $218 license and registration. No sales tax in Oregon. I'm very happy with that, although I suppose I could have bargained for a lower markup knowing that the dealer still makes at least a 2% holdback over invoice no matter what. Buy, hey, I believe that a car purchase must be fair for all concerned.
After we agreed on the deal, I decided I wanted the body side moldings and the dealer added them to the options list for the port people to install. As I recall, they are only about $195. I can’t tell you how they look yet, since the car won’t be delivered for 3 or 4 weeks. For a picture, try doing a Google search using "Toyota Avalon Body Side Moldings" or some such words.
Don
$597 later I had working A/C again. Ouch!!
Yesterday I was almost hit by another car when my Avalon hesitated and then surged as I tried to quickly merge into fast traffic. That was the last straw. Today I traded it in on a superior piece of machinery from Japan's number 2 automaker. In a moment of temporary insanity, I had briefly considered a Lexus ES350, but with the new 6-speed transmission failures evident in the Camry, I quickly came to my senses as I can't place further confidence in Toyota.
Regretfully, I've had a horrible experience with the Avalon :lemon: and after 11 Toyotas, it is now time to move on to something else. Toyota's Customer Service talks nice but does nothing. The only positive thing I can say is that the Avalon held it's value and I didn't lose a dime on it.
I hope the rest of you have better luck with your Avalons.
Either the condenser is of shoddy build, or Toyota needs to put some type of mesh or something to preclude it happening.
It certainly appears it is a design flaw in the Avalon to me.
I carted the damaged condenser home, so I will take some pictures and attempt to post them on this forum to show the problem.
I fought with Toyota for two days attempting to get some relief ($$$) to no avail.
The only thing they would say was that should Toyota have a "campaign" on said vehicle I may be able to get reimbursed.
My first post here regarding this issue was so fraught with emotion (mine) that they had to remove it.
Sorry for you, but glad to hear mine is not an isolated case. Perhaps Toyota will listen.
When a vehicle invoices for about 38K you would think the company would back up their products with more than mere rhetoric.
Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with your Avalon. I haven't experienced the big hesitation thing you have. I did have trouble in the beginning when it seemed to shift a bit rough but I was one of those who benefited from the move your seat ahead, adjust your foot on the gas pedal fixes, and haven't had any trouble since. Don't even think about it. What did you actually trade your Avalon for. I can't remember what you were looking at.
MelBC
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
When I raised the issue with my dealer at warranty service, the official response was "Vehicle operating as designed". Does that then make it a safety-related design defect?
I'm one of the those who have followed your sad story and I would like to say that I understand your frustration and disappointment. I believe that you got one of those unfortunate automobiles that was assembled poorly and where everything combined to go wrong. Fortunately, that has never happened to me after 40 some cars, but it sure hit you.
Where we differ, however, is that you seem to believe that Toyota just doesn't make quality products. The two years I have owned my Lexus lead me to believe otherwise. You got a lemon, but I believe that is the exception rather than the rule and that it can happen to any manufacturer. I sincerely hope that I am right and that you are wrong, since I am scheduled to take delivery of my new Avalon Limited in the next few weeks. Time will tell and if all does go to pot, at least we can fall back on the excellent resale value you mentioned.
I wish you the best of luck with your new car and no hard feelings for your efforts to keep us all informed.
Dandydon2
My company ordered a Blizzard Pearl XL for me on 1/30/06.
At the time the lease company said it would be 16-18 weeks.
Just got a leeter form the lease cokmpany dated 4/17 that my vehicle is "released for shipment" (shipped?). At that it should be at the dealer in 10-21 days.
Loks like 11 weeks to build and 12-14 until delivery.
At any rate, here I am, faced with either replacing the entire blade for $33 or waiting til someone produces an OEM wiper refill. It isn't like this is a part that you may or may not need in the lifetime of the car. Everyone's gonna need a pair occasionally......
I too have followed your post and could feel your stress and disappointment. It was good to read that you didn't have to take a loss. That may not be a happy ending but it's not a bad one either.
Wish you the best of luck on your replacement (Honda / Acura?).
ET
Before the year is over I will probably buy a new car and there are only a few on my list, Avalon included. But the problems with the transmission are obvious and will be a factor as will be a l-o-n-g test drive. Thanks for the input.
and yep, have yet to find anything, even regular maintainence items, avalaible 3rd party yet. Did have the same experience at my local dealer, they have no idea of what parts fit the car!
Wife and I both drive our 2005 Avalon regularly, so for us, the memory seat was essential. We have 2000 Avalon XLS with seat memory, and couldn't live without it. So - that forced us to the Limited.
But, I also like the laser-assisted cruise control. Other goodies seem less important, but you do get used to having all the toys. I've never regretted buying too much car.
Max
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage?ws=uf
Looks like Automotive news follows these discussions and decided that Alan's sad story might represent a new trend in quality for Toyota. Since I'm not a subscriber, I could only read the first few lines of the story. Is there anything new there and does the author provide any other sources?
Hope he is enjoying his new 'M'.
LOS ANGELES -- Alan Seider has owned 11 Toyotas since 1982, but his 2006 Avalon likely will be his last.
He says quality glitches have bedeviled his Toyota sedan, which he has driven less than 6,000 miles since he bought it last July. His dealer could not solve the car's problems. Toyota headquarters stonewalled his appeals, he says.
"There have been significant throttle control and transmission hesitation issues," says Seider, 45, a computer consultant from Roswell, Ga. "I've isolated 15 different rattles in the body work."
Seider is far from alone. Internet chat rooms such as Edmunds.com Town Hall are littered with complaints from Toyota loyalists about the redesigned Avalon, which went on sale in February 2005.
The Avalon's launch problems point to a larger issue. To meet demand, Toyota has added factories in North America and thousands of new employees. Executives are worried that Toyota's rapid growth may dilute its quality standards.
Toyota and Lexus divisions still exceed industry averages in various studies that measure quality. Toyota predicts that the Avalon will score well in J.D. Power and Associates' Initial Quality Study, to be released in June.
But the quality gap is closing. And Toyota recalls have spiked in the last two years.
Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.
The Avalon is the Toyota brand's most-expensive car, starting at $27,355 including destination charges. The redesigned 2005 model was embraced by consumers; Toyota sold 95,318 Avalons last year in the United States, up from 36,460 in 2004. Avalon sales peaked in 2000 at 104,078 units. It is assembled at Toyota's Georgetown, Ky., plant, alongside the Camry and Camry Solara.
It's a car-buying axiom that one should never buy a car in its first year of production, before the bugs are worked out. But in recent years Toyota and Honda largely disproved that old saw, delivering nearly bulletproof vehicles from Job 1.
Now the Avalon redesign is showing that even mighty Toyota can slip up.
Kevin Clingenpeel, a 37-year-old insurance litigator from Fort Mill, S.C., loved his Avalon for the first 2,000 miles. Then the transmission shifts became erratic, especially in cold weather. The engine developed a persistent knock, which could not be cured by changing grades of gasoline or by using a fuel-injector cleaner.
"I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota.
Clingenpeel says his dealer gave the car "a wink and a nod" when he brought it in three times for repairs. Clingenpeel then appealed to Toyota headquarters to send out a district service manager. Toyota refused. Now Clingenpeel is looking to sell the car.
"It's sad because there's a nice car hiding behind all this," Clingenpeel said. "But this is not up to snuff from what I would consider from Toyota."
The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.
While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.
Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.
"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else."
But Hanson acknowledged that Toyota has been concerned with the initial wave of quality problems for the car. Toyota's priority has been to find and remedy problems, get the fixes to the production line, and issue technical service bulletins so dealers can fix the faults on vehicles already on the road.
"The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.
The Avalon's transmission lurch is especially noticeable in low-speed crawls during rush hour, Hanson said. Previous Avalons had problems shifting smoothly at high speed with high engine revs. Toyota fixed the high-speed lurch by changing software algorithms, but the adjustment caused a low-speed lurch.
The low-speed problem "is all software," Hanson says.
Some customers are voting with their feet. In Seider's case, he replaced his wife's Toyota Sienna minivan with a Honda Pilot. He doubts he will replace the Avalon with another Toyota.
Said Seider: "I am so disappointed in Toyota. I've had previous first-year vehicles, but nothing like this ever happened. Toyota's build quality has declined in recent years, and there seems to be nothing the dealer can do. Toyota has reached a size that they've lost sight of the individual customer."
Since when has Toyota been losing customers to Ford ? Your statements is absurd and hilarious at the same time. You could put a jet engine in the 500 and most people still would prefer an Avalon over the 500.
Toyota has picked up gobs of market share over the last several years (primarily from the 'Big 3') to the point that it is now the world's largest CARmaker and may as this article notes be simply expanding too fast. But, if Toyota is going to suffer from some lost sales for whatever reason, it won't likely be to the benefit of the 'US' Brands - can you say - Nissan, Honda, Hyundai etc. and possibly some Chinese brands due in this country about the same time that Ford can finally get around to making a decent small engine. GM, of course, in worse shape.