It should be reassuring that Toyota spokesman John Hanson acknowledged that Toyota is aware that the Avalon's transmission lurch is especially noticeable in low-speed crawls during rush hour, and that the low-speed problem "is all software."
So, we have two low-speed problems:
An occasional lurch while crawling, and Toyota's tardiness to fix this faulty software.
C'mon, Toyota. This has been identified as a problem for well over 1 year, now! Get on it, please!
I am significantly taller than my wife, so the memory seats and smart key made it worth the extra money to buy the Limited. I also like the HID headlights. BTW, I have had none of the annoyances that other owners have talked about. It seems to be luck of the draw. Until last January, I had bought only GM products. My 2003 Pontiac Montana has, at last count, 4 recalls and 136 TSBs. The van has been in for numerous squeaks and rattles, with three trips required for most fixes. So far I love this 06 Avalon. Quiet, smooth, and powerful. I drove the Lucerne and really liked it too, but terrible MPG and the turning radius of a battleship made the Limited an easy choice.
motownusa Sorry you misunderstood, but I was refering to Toyota loosing more customers than they are already loosing because of the Avalon. With the 2008 updates, it seems that Ford will be particularly well positioned to take away those customers. Have you also noticed that Chevy has been beating the Camry on quality for several years (the Camry and Avalon are the same car underneath)?
Curious to know exactly who this Jim Hanson is - his comments being the first official (if he is 'official') admission that the problem even exists, that I know of. You would think that this should be a relatively easy fix - reprogramming the appropriate chip[s] may take some time and money (Toyota sure has a lot of that), but the chip itself and the labor to put in in, should be a snap.
And you are right - 'get on it Toyota' - and maybe folks like Alan don't run into brick walls, claiming that the car does exactly what it can do. Even though I personally do not find anything terribly wrong with the way the tranny acts, the fact is that it does behave abnormally at lower speeds - something that Toyota is loathe to admit. I was sure happy that Alan managed to get his history of problems/frustrations published - it's good for us and good for Toyota! Don't know if anything will ever come of this - but to alan_s - thanks.
MY '95 Avalon has 170,000+ miles on the clock, and this "Sunday go to meetin'"car needs to be replaced soon, just as a matter of prudent necesssity. I am, however, troubled by the loss of reliability standing as per Consumer Reports, dropping off to just plain "average". If I wanted an "average" car, I'd buy a Ford, Chevrolet, etc...I know first-year models have their "teething" problems, but we are now at the THIRD year of this machine, and Toyota still doesn't get it!! As the beloved Casey Stengel once said, "Isn't there anybody here who can play this here game?" What does it take for Corporate Toyota to call in people who are responsible for these festering problems, present them with the list of deficiencies, and say, "Fix these NOW, or find another place to work!" Is there no pride at the Kentucky plant, or have the expectations for quality finally been allowed to slide back to those of American corporations? I, for one, am going to wait and see if pride returns to Toyota!
huh? The Avalon was completely new only 14 months ago and was not related at all to anything before it - a completely new design, engine, tranny - the works. It is now the Camry that borrows a bit on the Avalon, not the other way around - although the new Camry is smaller. I do own a very early (02-05 and #4000 of about 90000 built) Avalon, and despite some minor problems still think it is the best car I've ever owned. IMO the 06 or 07 Avalon should be better in this regard (teething) as it would be with any manufacturer. FYI the vast majority of Camrys and Avalons have been built in Ky. for years so I don't think you can pin this on US manufacture - more likely because it is a completely new design which sold 3 times the previous year's volume. Again, IMO, a far superior design to any pre 2005 Avalon but we'll see if it holds up as well as apparently your '95 has.
By my count, other than info only bulletins, there have been 5-6 Technical Service Bulletins regarding the '05-'06 Avalon, and most of them are for really minor problems that are not widespread. I don't have the time to do the research but I wonder how many TSB's have been issued for the 500 or the Buick? I find it odd that a major publication decides Toyota has major quality issues because Alan S never liked the transmission on his Avalon. Over 120,000 units built and maybe a handful of complaints. Even the Consumer Reports reliability report was based on a relatively small sampling of subscribers.
Searched the local market and the web for Bosch Aerotwin wiper blades. None of the local automative parts dealers stock them. Even Bosch's own site doesn't list their blades for the Avalon. They have other Toyota's listed with OEM parts. The wife presently has the car but if I remember correctly, the driver's side is 28 inches and the passenger side is 24 inches. Looking on the web, VW has 28 inch Bosch OEM blades. Guess I'm off to my VW dealer......
I found the same thing when I looked yesterday. I also checked the Bosch Icon blades and there aren't any for the Avalon but there are some for my '01 Buick. Autozone had the blades, but not any for the Avalon.
Go to www.mycarstats.com and you can see the TSBs and complaints on about any car. Most complaints on The Avalon were about the problem that was solved by moving the foot on the accerator pedal before anyone knew about this solution.
For the benefit of the folks cruising the forum who are thinking about a new Avalon, I offer my experience so far. (None of this should be construed as reducing any belief that some may be suffering...) I purchased a 2006 Avalon Limited in September 2005, in the most superior color of Silver Pine Mica. It has every option they offered including Navigation system. Some of the options have been very well received by me, with the possible exception of the Nav system. I intend to try and learn more about Nav before taking a big trip in June, therefore I will reserve final judgement until I get more experience with it.
I have a little over 9000 miles, and the total overall experience has been as close to perfect as you can get with an automobile. I have no unexplained rattles, no leaks, no balky transmission, no problems at all. Never has been back to the dealer for anything. I have had the oil changed a couple of times at my local shop, and the tires rotated once. No service issues at all.
Some of the options have already entered "must have" status for me, like XM satellite radio and laser cruise control. I also loved the remote-start key fob this past winter, and it worked without fail. The memory seats, the high-intensity headlights, rear sunshade, turn signal indicators in the rear view mirrors are just icing on the cake. Many may not see the value of these but folks are different. For me the Limited offered these and I don't regret any of them.
There are some things that annoy me a bit, like dealing with the dreaded "I Agree..." Nav screen every time you start the car. And the radio/climate control screen should be redesigned in my opinion. But all in all, the vehicle is absolutely first-rate and I would buy it again in a heartbeat! I am sorry that some are suffering with some issues, and I hope that they continue to work with their dealer to achieve (some) satisfaction.
As stated above, my experience has been as close to perfect as I think you can hope to get with a vehicle. I am extremely satisfied and look forward to years of ownership. Thanks for listening... Mike
I was in a similar position as you are. I purchased a '95 Avalon off-lease. It was phenomenal. I kept thinking, did they build it this so well in its introduction year because it was a watershed for Toyota. At 120,000 miles and throughout my ownership it was bulletproof. I wanted to replace it primarily for safety improvements. I was concerned that I'd be giving up something good. Frankly, it's the first car I was sad to trade in. Toyota quality for me wasn't mythic. It was real. Yes, it is time for Toyota to step up to the plate, resolve the "algorithms", and keep the good will of repeat and future customers.
I am having a similar experience so far as well. I have only had the car a month but so far I am extremely happy. No trans issues, no rattles, etc. Before my 2003 Av went off lease I started reading this forum and was a little nervous about buying one. After I drove the competition (Lucerne, 500, 300, Maxima, TL) I ran back to Toyota. IMO nothing comes close. The only thing I can say bad about the car is it isn't as quiet as my 03 (probably the tires) and I could do without the cover on the radio. As for features, my XLS is equipped enough for me. I didn't want NAV and really don't think I would miss anything on the Limited except maybe the rain sensing wipers (if they work as designed). Just my two cents.
I could not agree more. I purchased my 2006 Limited in late January and now have almost 4000 miles on it. No rattles, no hesitation, no problems. Period.
I also agree that that NAV system needs work. The controller is too fussy and the voice recognition seems to be there for comic effect most of the time. However, I WOULD buy the NAV again. I've used a 3rd party NAV system and while it worked better in some ways -- it was a pain to deal with the dash clutter, wires, and loss of a power outlet.
At this point, I would definitely buy this car again. But, I'm one of those that drives a car 10 years so I'll report my long term road test in 2016!
fscmmcsi - you either need to do a little more research or share whatever it is you are smoking: Car recalls TSBs 2005 500 1 22 2005 Lacrosse 1 40 2005 Avalon 1 11 2005 Camry 1 18 2005 Malibu 0 78 2005 Impala 0 45 2005 Accord 4 80 2005 Maxima 1 10 2005 Altima 0 17 2005 Sonata 0 4 2005 300 4 42 The Sonata, Accord, and Altima are not truly 1st year models. And the surprises should be the Accord and the Sonata but certainly not that the 'Detroit' iron still lags. And, thanks to Volvo, the 500 is Ford's best effort in years and likely the best choice from an inferior group. Keep waiting on this imaginary new engine, then you can have even more problems - at least the 3.0 has been around long enough for even Ford to get the kinks out of.
I must agree, I have limited and have followed the forum. My car has been rock solid. I looked at Infinity M35, boy for 50K+ car it has issues...low mpg, high reving engine in place of our low reving engine. Other issues with the car as well. I was unsure after my BMW, but it is right on and great value. Others can go ahead and pay 15K more for same stuff!!
I purchased my 2005 avalon xls last june (2005). I have put in 17000 miles on it and I would like to say that it is a really wonderful car. It is very fast, very quiet, with a wonderful ride and has pretty good handling It is better than a lexus Rx 330 and almost as good as the Lexus LS 430. If you are looking for a nice car without the great looks of a BMW, Mercedes or Lexus (and without the premium price) I think that it is the best deal you can find. I see a lot of Toyota bashing on this site and I can only sympathize with these people. I also own a 2001 Sequoia with 116000 miles on it. Again I wouuld only trade it in for the next sequoia.
Hey! For that amount of moola, I'd beat up my grandmother! I owned an '85 Cressida for ten years, and my present Avalon is now eleven, and I've loved both of them. Does the fact that these cars are a completely new design, radically different, etc. excuse Toyota from problems two years down the line from their introduction?
dandydon2: Good luck with the Avalon Nav Systtem----it can't hold a candle to the Lexus--I'm soooooo sorry I got it. A $700 Garmin would be much better!! Other than the Nav--I love the Avalon--what a machine. I looked at the ES 330--too tight--G35--too noisy and rough riding--TL--again too smal and then the Lucerne--another GREAT car--my biggest worry--1st year reliability. Goo luck with your Avy! Bob
The recals are one item re design gliches but the , I use the word "cheap", regarding the covers around the front parking lights and the laser areas. I had the dealer do the toyota fix and they wobble still. I wash and wax my car and when you do these things you notice many things. Some people who do little "at home work" don't get close enough to notice the "irritations" that others do.
Overall the car is a good car but they had sales and they ran them through the assembly line. I believe this is one reason the little things that the toyota flagship car is, what it is. I really had higher expectations with this car.
The comment by John Hansen re "irritation more than anything else" was was a dumb statement comming from toyota, regarding their best toyota line car. If he want's to call them irritations, I wonder how many irritations he would be proud to live with. I am irritated about some things , including the navigation system, but what can I do about?
I think the average car owner buys a car and want's to proud of his car. I like my car but I am not proud of it.
I owned a 66 Mustang convertable and was proud of that car.
No, of course not - but you need to understand that the 'problem' that remains not addressed and the one that is largely the subject of the article and Mr. Hanson's comments, is NOT mechanical. It simply has to do with a silly software program that control how the transmission operates, some folks (Alan certainly) find it objectionable, the most of the rest of us not nearly so much. And understand that many, many other cars (the 500 6 speed, the VW Tiptronic, about anything MB makes, Lexus, the 300 etc.) also have some strange 'algorithms' that lead to some unusual tranny behavior. And, I don't think any of these mfgrs. consider this to be a defect either - which is what surprised me about Mr. Hanson's comments. If Toyota does end up issuing some sort of TSB on the ECU for the transmission behavior (which I think is doubtful) I would be willing to bet there will be a tradeoff off in the mpg dept. - IF we elect to have the chip reprogrammed or replaced given the option. Bottom line is not the time frame involved here, but a recognition from the mfgr. that the problem even exists. Toyota and many Avalon owners may contend that it doesn't.
Whether the current programming of the Avalon transmission is a "defect" or not may be a subjective issue, hence Toyota may legitimately elect not to change it. What is definitely NOT subjective is that if you don't step on the Avalon's accelerator pedal just right, the car doesn't behave properly. This can and should be fixed.
I checked the Valeo site. They have a wiper that LOOKS like the Avalon but is not listed past 2004. I wrote them an email to ask about the newer Avalons. Will post an answer when I get it.
I haven't looking into wiper blades by Valeo. This, while trivial, is very irritating. All I want is refills for the wiper blades. Can't believe Toyota wants to sell me the entire arm. The darn thing pops right off. And I can't believe I'm the first one who has a bad wiper blade. The 2006 Avalon is the same car as the 2005. Somebody out there has worn out wiper blades and replaced them. Wonder if they all just replaced arm and all. What a waste.
Call 800-527-2781, it's the number for Richardson Toyota in Texas and have them look up the drivers (around $23) and passengers (around $14) blades only. I purchased a pair a couple of weeks ago. Their website mistakenly orders the metal arm for the drivers side if you fill out the on-line form so I recommend calling them.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't just replace the wiper/rubber part like you can on most cars. You must replace the wiper blade assembly which causes the cost to be higher. This is because of the internal spring.
Thanks for your input re the nav. Discouraging info, but at least I have two year's worth of experience with these things and pretty much know how to use the features. If that's the only downside of Avalon, I can live with that for the two years I usually keep a car. My new Av is on a rail car somewhere heading west right now and I can hardly wait until it gets here.
Initially, the Buick Lucerne V8 was my first car choice. In fact, I even had one on order a couple of months ago, until I cancelled it. I continue to believe that it is a very good car and will prove to be a sales success. From what I read in terms of days on the lot (18), it already is.
However, the uncertainties surrounding General Motors' financial and labor situations alone are enough to make me hold off buying a GM product until they are resolved. If Delphi decides to abrogate their union contract and the UAW goes through with it's promise to strike, GM could be shut down for several weeks and might even be forced into bankruptcy. I understand that is unlikely to happen, since it would be in neither party's best interests. Still, I felt that I was unable to take that risk and jeopardize a significant “investment” that would undoubtedly be reduced in value if worst came to worst.
A note for other readers of this forum: I wrote a letter this week to the President & COO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, telling him of my concerns about the reported quality problems with Avalon, referring to the Automotive News article and numerous posts in this discussion. I explained that I was looking for more than just reassurance that all is well and that I have nothing to worry about in making this $38,000 expenditure. I told him that what I really want are specifics; that I would like to know in specific terms how Toyota is now or already has, addressed these problems. Do they represent teething problems on a first year model redesign for the 2005 car? Or are these same issues still unresolved and could they well show up in the automobile that will soon be delivered to me. I’ll let you all know what I find out.
I see that you're an Oregonian. I received my '06 Limited through Portland (for ultimate delivery to Pasco) and experienced a three week delay because of some damage to the car's bumper enroute to Portland. The "Port of Portland" Toyota people did a poor repair job on the bumper and I'm now pressing to get the bumper replaced at their cost. Look the car over very well before you accept it!
what you are thinking should be a refill, is actually what Toyota is trying to sell you (should be about $50). Those 'darn' things that pop off as you say - fifty bucks! just replaced mine. And despite the cost, love the blade design and they seem to do a bit better job than what we all grew up with.
Thanks for the tip on checking the car carefully before taking delivery. I hope that your bumper problem was an isolated incident, but I will take your advice. I have been in touch with the Service Manager at Lithia Toyota in Springfield regarding setting the door and trunk lock/unlock options and he is proving to be most helpful.
dandydon2: Good luck with the new Avalon---I truly love our Limited--its just the Nav I'm very disappointed with. My bad--i just figured Toyota--Lexus same Nav--duh?!! Look forward to your comments after ya get your Avy! I'm 62 and its REAL hard to keep from "puttin the pedal to the metal"--this car can MOVE!! Good luck! Bob
Implying that me or anyone else uses or would use illegal drugs is not a good way to make a point (FYI - I am the type who will not hesitate to call the police on anyone using such things - I have done it before and will do it again whenever I see such things).
Did anyone else see the Fusion vs Camry review in a major newspaper today. Bad fit and finish on the Camry, too few features for the price... Fusion wins.
As for the new Ford 3.5 V6, there is nothing immaginary about it. It is coming soon, first in the MKZ, Edge, and MKX late this year, then in the Five Hundred, Montego, Freestyle, Mazda CX-9 (and probably others) early next year. Ford already offers AWD, something Toyota does not even offer on the Lexus ES350 version of the Camry and Avalon. The 2008 Fords apparently will also offer additional features, such as heated rear seats.
I live in southern California, and drive past Toyota's enormous warehouse every month or two. You can be sure that it is stocked with more than fan belts, filters, and brake pads. Plenty of other parts fail on Toyota vehicles.
Toyota has a choice. They may act to correct the problems with their cars and with their dealer service, or they will loose more and more formerly loyal customers.
Oh wow!!! I had no clue he was talking about those rubber refills..... Yea, I don't think it'll work with ours. I haven't bought them in years though! Lot of cheap blades out there (unfournately not for these "spring less" ones...)
well, there is, at least, one good thing about the DT 3.0 that Ford HAD to put into the 500 and Fusion - after 15 years or so, it has become somewhat reliable (guess you don't remember what a disaster it was initially). And your ballyhooed 3.5 that should be mated to that outstanding 6 speed AT (CVTs not the choice for higher HP/torque) that has more drivability issues than any Toyota tranny ever thought of having - read some road tests and reviews. And yes, I drove the 500 - it is a spacious, comfortable car and really a solid improvement in fit/finish AND unbelieveably handicapped by a rough as a cob engine with no power and a 6 speed trans. that doesn't seem to know how it handle what it doesn't have. Ford lost a few billion trying to sell cars in this country, GM did much worse - and the reason for this is that they really are offering superior products and are simply getting a bad rap?!! So continue to hang your hat on something that doesn't exist yet and assume that Ford won't having teething problems for the first time in history with something new 18 or 24 months from now. Then you would be hallucinating. As far as reliability/quality issues go - you either believe the numbers or you don't. And you either have a sense of humor or you don't
The Ford Duratech 3.0 24 Valve DOHC was introduced in 1996 in Taurus. It is not 15 years old and was never a "disaster" and has never had any significant reliability issues.
Might I also remind you the Ford Five Hundred is in a much lower price range than Avalon, can be purchased in base configuration for less than $20K real world pricing.
If I was to buy a Toyota product, for the life of me I would much prefer the new 2007 Camry. Much less expensive and about all you are losing is a bit of interior room. Camry has at least as big a trunk as Avalon with less overall vehicle length. Plus you gain the fold down rear seats on all but the SE and hopefully lose the shifting problems that have appeared to be fairly widespread on Toyota 5 speed automatics.
Toyota Motor Sales USA contacted me today. Even though I have disposed of the Avalon in question, Toyota has provided me with a very generous goodwill offer in consideration of the difficulties I encountered. I would like to publicly thank Toyota, who I believe are sincere in their efforts to service and retain their customers. While I was previously very disillusioned with Toyota, their recent efforts have gone a long way in restoring my confidence.
I just drove to Florida and aback in a 2000 Avalon that is flawless I also drove a Fusion this week and was very disappointed. it is cheap looking and drove like a rental which it is. It was a 4. My other car a Honda Accord will run circles around the Fusion. I am going to look at the Lincoln Zephyr when they make a few of them also Buick Lucerne. Toyota Avalon is and will be my first choice.
You might also be interested to know that I was the other person interviewed for the Automotive News article. I was also contacted by Toyota on Tuesday and they have scheduled an appointment with the Southeast Toyota rep to look at all my issues with the car. Of course the outcome remains to be seen but at least the folks I have spoken to have acknowledged the tranny and engine noise as ongoing problems known to Toyota. Given my past experience with Toyota in dealing with a sludged Sienna van, I feel fairly confident they will work this out as well.
Comments
So, we have two low-speed problems:
An occasional lurch while crawling, and
Toyota's tardiness to fix this faulty software.
C'mon, Toyota. This has been identified as a problem for well over 1 year, now! Get on it, please!
havalongavalon
And you are right - 'get on it Toyota' - and maybe folks like Alan don't run into brick walls, claiming that the car does exactly what it can do. Even though I personally do not find anything terribly wrong with the way the tranny acts, the fact is that it does behave abnormally at lower speeds - something that Toyota is loathe to admit. I was sure happy that Alan managed to get his history of problems/frustrations published - it's good for us and good for Toyota!
Don't know if anything will ever come of this - but to alan_s - thanks.
"Nissan turns ex-Toyota manager loose on nagging quality woes."
Maybe they decided to lower quality instead.
I have a little over 9000 miles, and the total overall experience has been as close to perfect as you can get with an automobile. I have no unexplained rattles, no leaks, no balky transmission, no problems at all. Never has been back to the dealer for anything. I have had the oil changed a couple of times at my local shop, and the tires rotated once. No service issues at all.
Some of the options have already entered "must have" status for me, like XM satellite radio and laser cruise control. I also loved the remote-start key fob this past winter, and it worked without fail. The memory seats, the high-intensity headlights, rear sunshade, turn signal indicators in the rear view mirrors are just icing on the cake. Many may not see the value of these but folks are different. For me the Limited offered these and I don't regret any of them.
There are some things that annoy me a bit, like dealing with the dreaded "I Agree..." Nav screen every time you start the car. And the radio/climate control screen should be redesigned in my opinion. But all in all, the vehicle is absolutely first-rate and I would buy it again in a heartbeat! I am sorry that some are suffering with some issues, and I hope that they continue to work with their dealer to achieve (some) satisfaction.
As stated above, my experience has been as close to perfect as I think you can hope to get with a vehicle. I am extremely satisfied and look forward to years of ownership. Thanks for listening... Mike
I was in a similar position as you are. I purchased a '95 Avalon off-lease. It was phenomenal. I kept thinking, did they build it this so well in its introduction year because it was a watershed for Toyota. At 120,000 miles and throughout my ownership it was bulletproof. I wanted to replace it primarily for safety improvements. I was concerned that I'd be giving up something good. Frankly, it's the first car I was sad to trade in. Toyota quality for me wasn't mythic. It was real. Yes, it is time for Toyota to step up to the plate, resolve the "algorithms", and keep the good will of repeat and future customers.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I also agree that that NAV system needs work. The controller is too fussy and the voice recognition seems to be there for comic effect most of the time. However, I WOULD buy the NAV again. I've used a 3rd party NAV system and while it worked better in some ways -- it was a pain to deal with the dash clutter, wires, and loss of a power outlet.
At this point, I would definitely buy this car again. But, I'm one of those that drives a car 10 years so I'll report my long term road test in 2016!
Car recalls TSBs
2005 500 1 22
2005 Lacrosse 1 40
2005 Avalon 1 11
2005 Camry 1 18
2005 Malibu 0 78
2005 Impala 0 45
2005 Accord 4 80
2005 Maxima 1 10
2005 Altima 0 17
2005 Sonata 0 4
2005 300 4 42
The Sonata, Accord, and Altima are not truly 1st year models.
And the surprises should be the Accord and the Sonata but certainly not that the 'Detroit' iron still lags. And, thanks to Volvo, the 500 is Ford's best effort in years and likely the best choice from an inferior group. Keep waiting on this imaginary new engine, then you can have even more problems - at least the 3.0 has been around long enough for even Ford to get the kinks out of.
Bob
Overall the car is a good car but they had sales and they ran them through the assembly line. I believe this is one reason the little things that the toyota flagship car is, what it is. I really had higher expectations with this car.
The comment by John Hansen re "irritation more than anything else" was was a dumb statement comming from toyota, regarding their best toyota line car. If he want's to call them irritations, I wonder how many irritations he would be proud to live with. I am irritated about some things , including the navigation system, but what can I do about?
I think the average car owner buys a car and want's to proud of his car. I like my car but I am not proud of it.
I owned a 66 Mustang convertable and was proud of that car.
Enough said--ange1
If Toyota does end up issuing some sort of TSB on the ECU for the transmission behavior (which I think is doubtful) I would be willing to bet there will be a tradeoff off in the mpg dept. - IF we elect to have the chip reprogrammed or replaced given the option.
Bottom line is not the time frame involved here, but a recognition from the mfgr. that the problem even exists. Toyota and many Avalon owners may contend that it doesn't.
This, while trivial, is very irritating. All I want is refills for the wiper blades. Can't believe Toyota wants to sell me the entire arm. The darn thing pops right off. And I can't believe I'm the first one who has a bad wiper blade. The 2006 Avalon is the same car as the 2005. Somebody out there has worn out wiper blades and replaced them. Wonder if they all just replaced arm and all. What a waste.
Thanks for your input re the nav. Discouraging info, but at least I have two year's worth of experience with these things and pretty much know how to use the features. If that's the only downside of Avalon, I can live with that for the two years I usually keep a car. My new Av is on a rail car somewhere heading west right now and I can hardly wait until it gets here.
Initially, the Buick Lucerne V8 was my first car choice. In fact, I even had one on order a couple of months ago, until I cancelled it. I continue to believe that it is a very good car and will prove to be a sales success. From what I read in terms of days on the lot (18), it already is.
However, the uncertainties surrounding General Motors' financial and labor situations alone are enough to make me hold off buying a GM product until they are resolved. If Delphi decides to abrogate their union contract and the UAW goes through with it's promise to strike, GM could be shut down for several weeks and might even be forced into bankruptcy. I understand that is unlikely to happen, since it would be in neither party's best interests. Still, I felt that I was unable to take that risk and jeopardize a significant “investment” that would undoubtedly be reduced in value if worst came to worst.
A note for other readers of this forum: I wrote a letter this week to the President & COO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, telling him of my concerns about the reported quality problems with Avalon, referring to the Automotive News article and numerous posts in this discussion. I explained that I was looking for more than just reassurance that all is well and that I have nothing to worry about in making this $38,000 expenditure. I told him that what I really want are specifics; that I would like to know in specific terms how Toyota is now or already has, addressed these problems. Do they represent teething problems on a first year model redesign for the 2005 car? Or are these same issues still unresolved and could they well show up in the automobile that will soon be delivered to me. I’ll let you all know what I find out.
Cheers,
Don
I see that you're an Oregonian. I received my '06 Limited through Portland (for ultimate delivery to Pasco) and experienced a three week delay because of some damage to the car's bumper enroute to Portland. The "Port of Portland" Toyota people did a poor repair job on the bumper and I'm now pressing to get the bumper replaced at their cost. Look the car over very well before you accept it!
just replaced mine. And despite the cost, love the blade design and they seem to do a bit better job than what we all grew up with.
Bob
Did anyone else see the Fusion vs Camry review in a major newspaper today. Bad fit and finish on the Camry, too few features for the price... Fusion wins.
As for the new Ford 3.5 V6, there is nothing immaginary about it. It is coming soon, first in the MKZ, Edge, and MKX late this year, then in the Five Hundred, Montego, Freestyle, Mazda CX-9 (and probably others) early next year. Ford already offers AWD, something Toyota does not even offer on the Lexus ES350 version of the Camry and Avalon. The 2008 Fords apparently will also offer additional features, such as heated rear seats.
I live in southern California, and drive past Toyota's enormous warehouse every month or two. You can be sure that it is stocked with more than fan belts, filters, and brake pads. Plenty of other parts fail on Toyota vehicles.
Toyota has a choice. They may act to correct the problems with their cars and with their dealer service, or they will loose more and more formerly loyal customers.
Ford lost a few billion trying to sell cars in this country, GM did much worse - and the reason for this is that they really are offering superior products and are simply getting a bad rap?!!
So continue to hang your hat on something that doesn't exist yet and assume that Ford won't having teething problems for the first time in history with something new 18 or 24 months from now. Then you would be hallucinating. As far as reliability/quality issues go - you either believe the numbers or you don't. And you either have a sense of humor or you don't
Might I also remind you the Ford Five Hundred is in a much lower price range than Avalon, can be purchased in base configuration for less than $20K real world pricing.
If I was to buy a Toyota product, for the life of me I would much prefer the new 2007 Camry. Much less expensive and about all you are losing is a bit of interior room. Camry has at least as big a trunk as Avalon with less overall vehicle length. Plus you gain the fold down rear seats on all but the SE and hopefully lose the shifting problems that have appeared to be fairly widespread on Toyota 5 speed automatics.
Even though I have disposed of the Avalon in question, Toyota has provided me with a very generous goodwill offer in consideration of the difficulties I encountered.
I would like to publicly thank Toyota, who I believe are sincere in their efforts to service and retain their customers. While I was previously very disillusioned with Toyota, their recent efforts have gone a long way in restoring my confidence.
Bob