Toyota Prius

bhill2 · September 2003

If the demand for the Prius holds up or even increases, Toyota and other manufacturers are likely to shorten their timelines for other hybrid vehicles. This would allow more choices sooner, as well as providing all of the other benefits of having more hybrid vehicles on the road. For those who want specifically a Prius, it will eventually reduce the competition (although not for a while.)

mrvadeboncoeur · September 2003

some more reviews have come in:
test drive: http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=577
review: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_- id=828
review: http://www.carcast.com/cc/automarketplace/marketplace/full_articl- e.cfm?article_id=1758&d_template=db%3AVenturacounty&d_reg- ion_code=Ventura%20County%20Star&picExists=T&marketplace_- id=280

john1701a · September 2003

Configuration analysis is extremely time-consuming. Lab testing is just a lengthy. Warranty & Reptuation concerns require no shortcuts to be taken.

In your opinion, when do you think the other automakers will have a product good enough to compete with the HSD?

HSD = Hybrid Synergy Drive, the hybrid system in the 2004 Prius that will also be used in 2 other vehicles next year.

JOHN

3c3 · September 2003

Is the key powered by battery or RF energy?

oldfox · October 2003

Thanks John for the info re: Smart Entry system-that cleared it up for me.
Now how about those fog lamps. Do you know if they can be ordered as a stand alone item? Also what do they mean by colored door handles and antenna?

T.

john1701a · October 2003

> fog lamps

The large black plastic piece in front on the bottom of a 2004 Prius without factory lamps may not provide a place to add some afterward. You're just going to have to wait and find out.

> colored door handles

They're painted, just like the door. So they blend right in.

> and antenna?

Sorry, I don't even understand that reference.

JOHN

geo2004 · October 2003

We're in the Burlington,VT area. Our local Toyota dealer tells us there are about 20 people on the waiting list for the 04 Prius. He does not expect to see one on the lot before March. Any suggestions where one may be available before March in VT, upper NY state, or NH? Thanks!

john1701a · October 2003

He's right. They won't be available on the lot for quite awhile. But that shouldn't make any difference to you. Just rent one for a day.

The TRAC (Toyota Rent A Car) models will be available in just 2 to 3 weeks. Give that a try. Then once you're hooked (it only takes a few minutes to become overwhelmed with desire), place your order... which should arrive before March.

JOHN

john1701a · October 2003

The TRAC models themselves will be for sale in a few months. It's standard practice to sell them before too many miles accumulate. So a few times a year they start again with new ones. That opens up a market for used & discounted 2004 models.

JOHN

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

Typical TRAC (Toyota Rent A Car) vehicles are on
the program for 4 months, then they're able to be
sold.

I have heard of some dealers that have worked out
the ability to have a higher turnaround on their
TRAC program, down to as little as 2 months.

If you find a dealer with a TRAC (aka demo unit),
ask when it comes available for sale if you like it!

My husband's Prius is due in this month (October)
at Westboro Toyota (MA), along with a few TRAC
vehicles for the dealership and other Pioneer orders.
So other dealerships should see TRAC Prius soon,
if they ordered any.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

http://www.forbes.com/business/newswire/2003/10/02/rtr1097450.htm- l

vanden · October 2003

This is the first I've heard of TRAC.

If I want to rent an '04 Prius to try it, do I do that through a Toyota dealership? Does every dealership offer this?

I'm worrying that with the high demand, test drives may be hard to come by.

boxfan · October 2003

vanden-Try http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/trac/

You can find a local dealer that has rentals from the website. I'm looking forward to renting one, if it's possible. I don't think test drives are ever long enough to decide if you like a car--the seats may be comfortable for the first 15 minutes but could kill you later. My wife and I rented a Taurus wagon for a week while we were thinking about buying one (we needed a car anyway), and then decided not to buy it. We looked into renting a Sienna from a Toyota dealership at a time, and I think it was something like $90 for a day. That's an expensive test drive, but when you're going to be spending $20K or more, it seems worth it.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

thanks for posting the link for me.

Some dealers will deduct the TRAC rental fee from
the price of the car, should you decide to buy one
because of the extended test drive! doesn't hurt
to ask...

however, I think the TRAC vehicles tend to be
short-term rentals (a day or so), as they're usually
the units that are given out when someone has their
car in for a lengthy service/repair.

not all dealerships have TRACs. Heck, most dealers
haven't even been trained on the 2004s yet! best
bet - call around to try scheduling things. check
out the various internet sites, maybe you'll find
someone on the Pioneer list that'll let you take
theirs for a short spin. (First deliveries are
around Oct. 17.)

nippononly · October 2003

from my local TRAC dealer on a semi-regular basis, and I was in there the other day, so I asked the woman who runs it when she expected to have '04 Prius - her answer? January. Have to wait a while to try out this new one, if that dealership is any indication. :-(

I happen to be stopping by another TRAC dealership tonight to see a friend, so I will ask there as well.

With Prius even more than with most cars,I would strongly recommend renting one for a weekend and driving off a tank of gas to get to know it, before committing to purchase.

geo2004 · October 2003

Thank you for posting about TRAC. We are looking into it, also web-searching dealerships in our area regarding inventory and waiting lists.
Based on previous yr's models, how can we expect the Prius 04 to operate on snow-covered roads? What kind of snow tires are recommended? Can it hold 17 inch tires? (I'm thinking *not.)How does the Prius hold the road under windy conditions? We're really eager for a test drive. We are new to Toyota. The Prius would be a 2nd car, in addition to our '96 Accord wagon.

john1701a · October 2003

> how can we expect the Prius 04 to operate on snow-covered roads?

I'm looking forward to a very uneventful Winter #4. The first 3 in Minnesota with the 2001 Prius and all-season tires were ho-hum. All the driving was controlled & predictable. This year I'll have a 2004 Prius with VSC (Vehicle Stability Control), so driving will be even better.

> What kind of snow tires are recommended?

Blizzak is a favorite of owners. But now that the tires are 15", there are quite a few more choices available.

> Can it hold 17 inch tires?

Why? And I doubt it.

> How does the Prius hold the road under windy conditions?

CLASSIC: The tall profile allows the wind to hit it, but the body is so aerodynamic that it just slips through. So it doesn't effect driving.

NEW: With an improved Cd (to that of a Corvette!), I wouldn't expect to feel anything anymore.

JOHN

eman5 · October 2003

John, do you think the 04 Prius will tolerate repeated 20 minute stretches of idling with the a/c running in southeast Texas heat and humidity?

john1701a · October 2003

I don't see why it couldn't. Prius runs cool in the first place. The fact that it shuts off the engine from time to time actually gives it an edge over traditional vehicles.

JOHN

paul34b · October 2003

Why doesn't the North American version of the 2004 Prius offer the Intelligent Parking Assist (IPA)? Are we just better at parallel parking so we don't need the automation or might we see this in the next year or two?

orangelebaron · October 2003

The impresion I got is that it's not totally foolproof and the NHTSA or/and Toyota is concerned that it might actually be a liability in regards to a pedestrian walking between cars and getting injured because of the driver letting the car take over and the car not responding properly.
I myself think it's a bad idea. If you can't park a car between two others... then you need to learn how.

Here's a link:
http://www.autoworld.com.my/emzine/review/viewarticle.asp?awRevie- wId=1509&awCatId=RT.ATC.CAR.FS

jchan2 · October 2003

There is a big liability issue with that. I don't see why they couldn't stick a big warning sign in the rear window and say: CAUTION: THIS CAR IS EQUIPPED WITH INTELLIGENT PARK ASSIST. BE CAREFUL AROUND THE VEHICLE. WATCH. LOOK TO SEE THAT THIS CAR WILL NOT HIT YOU IF YOU ARE DUMB ENOUGH TO CROSS THE STREET WITHOUT A CROSSWALK. There. The lawyers can approve mine word for word or they could change it.

jchan2 · October 2003

fine with me.

geo2004 · October 2003

We're trying to learn as much as possible about driving a hybrid. We hear that if the Prius is not driven for about 2 wks, the warranty may not be honored. Is this truth or heresay? What happens when the Prius is not driven for an extended period of time? What are the best strategies for getting one sooner, not later? Is it recommended to get on a waiting list? If so, do you accept whatever package and color comes along, or should you pre-order a specific package and color? Thanks for any suggestions.

john1701a · October 2003

> We hear that if the Prius is not driven for about 2 wks,
> the warranty may not be honored. Is this truth or heresay?

At first, I was really upset about this fiction. I knew it wasn't the slightest bit true, yet the belief grew anyway. Now that I've seen a rumor grow from scratch, it's rather intriguing. Will it actually become a full-blown misconception now, or will it just be one of those stories you hear about?

> What are the best strategies for getting one sooner, not later?

If you want a NEW 2004: find a dealer you can trust, then place an order.

If you want a USED 2004: find a dealer you can trust, then request to buy their TRAC model as soon as they are done with it (usually about 4 months).

JOHN

eandlcubed · October 2003

i heard the system doesn't use sonar sensing so if a a dog or anyone suddenly appeared in its path, the car doesn't sense it. but i think the biggest issue is the states is land of litigation. sorry:( ...it took mercedes two years later to bring to the states adaptive cruise control on their s-class. maybe it is good in a sense. let them work out the bugs first.

eandlcubed · October 2003

that does sound like a misconception (urban legend?). i don't see any rational reason for it. i own a 2002 prius and have parked it for over 3 weeks and it starts and drives just fine.
as for the rattle on the new '04 as review in "automobile" magazine, i think it is common on preproduction model. my '02 does occasionally rattle near the glove box area but only on really rough roads. i don't store anything else in there but the car manual and few napkins.

dupie · October 2003

John: Have you read any thing about a Green Expo to be in Minnesota in the near future? I had an "E" mail about the Green Expo in Ill. this week. Supposedly on it's way to Minnesota.
Dupie

little_pogi · October 2003

According to a 04' Prius sales brochure I got today from a local dealer, the following are listed:
Basic-36 months/36k miles (all components other than normal wear and maint. items)
Powertrain-60 months/60k miles (engine, transmission/tansaxle, FWD, seatbelts, airbags)
Hybrid-related Components - 8 yrs/100k miles (HV battery, batt ctrl module, hybrid ctrl module, inverter with converter assy). It says the batt expected life is 150k miles based on lab bench testing.
Accessories- 12months regardless of mileage.

Accessories listed were:
Rear bumper applique (whatever that is)
Wheel locks
Auto-dimming rearview mirror with unv. transmitter
Ashtray
Carpeted fllor mat/trunk mat
Cargo net
Toyota VIP RS3200 system upgrade
Glass breakage sensor
6-disc in-dash CD changer
Frist Aid Kit

It also shows 9 package options.

buffagm · October 2003

hey everyone, I havent really kept track of this thread in a while(lsats), I've heard news that the demand of the 04 Prius is expected to exceed the inital supply. Any truth to this? If I order a car in the next couple of weeks do I have a chance to pick it up with the the next 2 months? Thanks for the replies.

jeep2jetta · October 2003

...I think someone had mentioned previously but I was wondering about the roof top antenna on the new Prius. I wonder why Toyota had gone this route instead of a retractable or "in-windshield" design like on my MR2 (in-windshield and retractable). Does anyone know if this antenna is removable/un-screw for when going through a carwash, etc...? Lately, I have seen roof top antenna designs poping up from other manufacturers and personally I think they are ugly. Back in the '80s they were the rage, especially those ugly, mobile phone antennas that people stuck to the roof of their cars even if they did not have a mobile phone installed.

I also noticed that in a few pictures I have seen, the trunk area floor can be lifted up to reveal a hidden storage area, it looks quite large. So, does anyone know where they put the spare tire? Is it one of those "crank and lower" type of mechanism underneath the car?

Just observations...
Tony.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

The spare tire is a "space-saver" tire (aka donut).
It lives underneath that hidden storage area that
you're talking about (which is under the carpet/floor
of the hatch area).

Some photos of a pre-production 2004 are here:
http://www.newtoyotaparts.com/04prius/

Some low-quality photos of several ACTUAL production
'04 Prius are here:
http://members.cox.net/htmlspinr/

(oops, wrong URL on last post...)

eandlcubed · October 2003

thanks mrvadeboncoeur for the great pics !! i notice that the key still has to be put in the ignition. i thoought it is keyless system? this one does not have that option?
as for the antenna, i know the "old" one can be unscrewed and i am assumed the new one will do the same.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

well, you've got the fob. keyless entry, like on
the current Prius, is the little remote lock/unlock/panic
button key fob. you can unlock the doors without using
the mechanical key, while you're walking towards the car.

on the 2004, the fob itself is put into the
"ignition switch," and not a key. no key turning
to start the car.

(if the battery dies on the fob, you can use the
mechanical key to open the doors, and the car itself
can activate/read the fob that's in the "ignition
switch" in the dash without the fob's battery.)

However, there is the Smart Entry & Smart Start
option for the 2004 Prius. The car senses that
you've got a recognized fob in your pocket, and
will unlock the doors for you (if you touch the
door button when opening it). The car
recognizes the fob that's in your pocket or purse,
and lets you hit the Start/Power button to start
the car, without having to put the fob into the
dash "ignition switch."

jeep2jetta · October 2003

...for the answers to the antenna and spare tire questions. Thanks for the great photo sites too...

eandlcubed · October 2003

thanks for the the explanation...i guess it is similar to the mercedes keyless go. however, mercedes charges an arm and a leg for it. kudos to toyota for keeping the price down on these new tech options

all we need now is the laser adaptive cruise, adaptive zenon headlights and reverse camera on the prius. are you listening toyota?

bhill2 · October 2003

I have a question that I either haven't seen an answer to or have forgotten. On the pictures of the selector that I have seen, the meaning of R, N, and D, are obvious, but what does B stand for?

jeep2jetta · October 2003

...well, from what I can tell by watching a Japanese Prius video shows that the "B" will activate the regenerative braking mode. This mode will allow you to capture energy from braking and recharge the batteries with it. It also looks like you can switch to this mode while driving (in motion). Anyone else know of a better answer? Please correct me if I am wrong.

The other item I try to figure out is the "P" button right above the selector knob/stick. It looks like it will put the car in "Park". However, also through the video, I remeber seeing once the driver has push this "P" button, she had to also physically push down a "parking brake" pedal to lock the car in parking mode; sort of like pulling the manual brake lever in a traditional car that is located between the front driver and passenger seats. Any thoughts?

One other thing, although I don't smoke, it looks like there are no ashtray or cigarette lighter in the Prius. I guess they figure environmentally minded drivers are not smokers.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

"B" is the same thing as on the 2001-2003 Prius.

Think of it as a Low gear on a traditional automatic,
or like a truck's jack brakes. There's a little
more regenerative braking (but not much), but mainly
the engine spins to help slow you down so that you
don't ride the brakes on a long steep downhill grade.

You don't want to drive around normally in "B"
mode - you won't coast very well and your MPG will
go down because of that.

the "P" button is the same as "P" on a regular
car... sets the parking pawl.

Regenerative braking occurs normally in "D" (drive)
mode, you don't have to manually select anything
to get regenerative braking...

As for an ashtray for the 2004, it's a port/dealer
installed option. PN 08171-47800

jeep2jetta · October 2003

...so, the driver would have to press the "P" button prior to setting the manual foot brake? That is what it looks like in the video. Wonder why they did not just put the "P" on the drive selector lever (above the "B" for example) instead of on a button. I would think that it would be more intuitive since it sort of mimic conventional car gear selector layout. But then again, the Prius is not a conventional car! :-)

jeep2jetta · October 2003

...this may have been discussed previously but when you let the Prius coast what are the advantages?

john1701a · October 2003

> when you let the Prius coast what are the advantages?

The engine shuts off. And not just while you are coasting either. If the power demand remains below 10kW, the motor will supply thrust exclusively.

So you can be cruising alone the highway at 65 MPH gliding down a very gentle decline (less than 1%) and the engine stop using fuel. (It will still spin though. 42 MPH is the threshold.) That will increase efficiency while still maintaining the same speed.

JOHN

coolguyky7 · October 2003

With the Smart Start/Entry, do you have to actually put the gizmo (for the lack of a specific term for this new fob-device) into the dash like in that one set of pictures for the pre-preproduction model? My impression all along has been that you don't plug any recognition device (ie key/fob) into the dash--you only press the Start button.

jeep2jetta · October 2003

John, I thought I read somewhere that the threshold for the engine to kick in was higher than 42mph in the new Prius. Maybe I am thinking about the lower threshold for the older Prius.

john1701a · October 2003

> do you have to actually put the gizmo into the dash

Nope!

You just leave the fob (gizmo) in your pocket or purse.

JOHN

jonesie12a · October 2003

I was reading the Edmunds review on the 04 Prius and it said that you can get satellite radio as an option? I thought that this wasn't available? Can anyone confirm?

john1701a · October 2003

Correct, the threshold for the 2004 Prius is higher. The specs state that Voltage, RPM, Torque of the thrust-motor have all been increased, so we know there's an improvement. However, we don't know what the heck that new threshold is... yet.

Deliveries begin in less than 2 weeks. The proud new owners will gladly research this and report back to us... Hmm, I wonder who will be first? Since I live in the Midwest, it unfortunately won't be me. Those on the West Coast don't have to wait for train transport. So someone out there will likely have the honor.

JOHN

jchan2 · October 2003

coasting down the road- it earns you more battery "bars" as Motor Trend likes to put it.

coolguyky7 · October 2003

Thanks! That's what I thought but those pictures said "smart start" on them and the guy put the gizmo in the dash. I love this car!

funpilot · October 2003

I am in Virginia and my dealer says I can expect my Prius the first week of November. They only had two orders, both for the fully loaded car, and both are being delivered that week. By then, these boards should be full of reviews. I am especially curious about Bluetooth and the Nav systems.

Toyota Prius

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