Toyota Prius

Kirstie_H · October 2004

We're not going to start carrying the argument over into the pricing discussion. You know where to hold this conversation, so please move there.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

raguero · October 2004

well, used 2004 Prius are selling for way above Edmund's or for that matter, original MSRP. I saw one today at the dealership where I got mine with 17k on it, package 9, selling for $32,000. There's something wrong with this picture. I guess it's still a matter of supply and demand.

pjyoung · October 2004

no...it's just P.T. Barnum being proved right yet again.

rpgolfer · October 2004

Hi gang,
Well, between the back-to-back-to-back hurricanes (closing oil refineries along the gulf coast), crude oil prices over $50/bbl and good old-fashioned panic, gas prices here in the San Francisco Bay Area are averaging over $2.50/gal. I noticed on this morning's news that one station in San Francisco (most expensive part of the Bay Area) is asking a whopping $2.73 for REGULAR!!! They're asking $2.93 for the good stuff. My wife is glad we have the Prius and my neighbors are jealous. I've often wondered if someone could install a digital signboard you can display in the back window of the Prius showing your average or actual mpg, but then you might get gestured to by an SUV owner. I hear the rest of the nation is almost $2/gal.
Thanks,
Rich

gagrice · October 2004

I thought San Diego was the highest in the nation. I saw $2.459 this morning. ARCO is at $2.339 at the lowest staitions. I just paid $2.539 for ECD-1 ULSD for my tractor. Sounds like the Prius was a wise decision. I would not give you any obscene jestures if I passed you in my Suburban.

larsb · October 2004

According to sandiegogasprices.com, the cheapest gas in San Diego is at Costco on Town Center Drive for $2.27 and the most expensive in town is $2.69 at the UnoCal at 9th and Orange....HAppy shopping !!

For comparison sake, the cheapest in Phoenix AZ is $2.07 and the cheapest in El Paso TX is $1.84 and the cheapest in St Louis MO is $1.78......

Kirstie_H · October 2004

and the cheapest in St Louis MO is $1.78......

I've got to fill up in about 30 minutes... sure hope I can find $1.78, since last night it was $2.04 near my house!! If it keeps going this way, I might be in the market for a Prius after all.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

larsb · October 2004

go to stlouisgasprices.com and find your spot !!!

gagrice · October 2004

the cheapest gas in San Diego is at Costco on Town Center Drive for $2.27

That is where I get gas about 2 miles from my house. I use about a tank every 8 weeks. I was hoping it would go down before the election, so I can fill up the Suburban.

midnightcowboy · October 2004

There is a rumor that all Prius are really Leather. That underneath the velour "mouse fur" seatcovering there is really leather.

Is there any truth to this or is it just wishful thinking??

Enjoy your Priuses.

MidCow

falconone · October 2004

Actually I've also read that under the carpet there is a silver lining.

alphabass · October 2004

lee_w · October 2004

Does anyone have any Recent buying experiences with new or used Prius?

rpgolfer · October 2004

Hi gang,
Mostly, the reason gas is higher here in sunny Ca (both Northern and Southern Ca) is because of the high state, county and other local taxes added to the initial price per gallon. The Governator (Ah-nold) sees to it that we ALL pay for the privelege of driving in the Golden State. When I travel to Oregon, I usually find gas 15-30 cents cheaper. I was in Phoenix earlier this year and didn't find it much cheaper than here...I guess one metropolitan area is like any other. My wife's car (LeSabre) gets very good mpg (24-32 mpg) but my Ford F-150 keeps me honest at 15 mpg due to low gearing.
Thanks,
Rich

mfullmer · October 2004

Ok, as a California native I have to chime in here. I've checked around and asked several of my family members who still live there but there have been no taxes and/or registration fees have gone up in the last year. What exactly does the "Governator" have to do with paying higher taxes?

rpgolfer · October 2004

With all of the retro-fitting of Bay Area bridges and under/overpasses statewide, I'm sure the state government will have to find ways to pay for all of this, since they cut alot of money to CalTrans (highway dept).
Like you said, with registration fees not being raised, they'll have to find the money elsewhere. They've raised the bridge tolls to $3 (it's still $5 for the GGB). When that doesn't fill the bill, they'll probably hit us in a different pocket and I believe that will be in the hidden gas taxes.
Thanks,
Rich

falconone · October 2004

Be happy you don't live in NY. The Verazanno Bridge which connects Brooklyn and Staten Island is going up to $9.00 from $8.00 R/T. Wooosh!!

jrct9454 · October 2004

...is, was, and probably will be, supply and demand. There is not enough refining capacity in or near the state to produce the special CA RFG blend that is mandated by state law. The result is a higher price. Blaming it on a new Governor, whomever he is, is laughable. This has been a problem for at least the last decade, and will continue to be a problem as long as CA's appetite for designer fuel exceeds its capacity to refine the stuff "in-region". States with localities that depend on CA refineries [a number of places in Arizona, Nevada, and to a lesser extent, southern Oregon] also pay higher prices as a result. And this is about as new as the sun rising and setting - I personally can't remember the last time CA had fuel prices that were anywhere near the national average.

Anyway, the tax burden on motor fuel in CA is not extraordinary, and certainly not "hidden" - the CA RFG "premium" is still another cost of cleaning up the air, primarily in the Southern California / LA Basin, that everyone pays. Another great argument for fuel efficient cars, which I presume is why this thread got started on a board dedicated to the Prius.

gagrice · October 2004

To continue;
The CA legislature has blocked any new refineries being built in the state since the 1970s. So along with our designer fuels we pay additional transportation charges to get the gas that is required by CARB. We also tax diesel at a higher rate so the truckers charge higher shipping. If our Governator can keep the lobbyists from controlling the legislature as they have over the past decade maybe some of the taxes can be brought into control.
Remember Ahnold did sign the law that gives special privileges to Prius owners.

little_pogi · October 2004

To be fair with our Honda hybrid friends, this special previlege also applies to owners of the Civic hybrid and Insights. Also remember, not all hybrids or upcoming hybrids models may not qualify for this special previleges.

railroadjames · October 2004

For those of you who have yet to test the hrbrid waters, I suggest you get on board. The time is at hand. THINK GREEN and save $$$ and fuel. I bought my 04 PRIUS last January and now have nearly 12k miles on her. It's roomy, fairly quick and a great way to get around CHEAP. I average 465
miles a tankfull @ about 53-56 MPG. Most importantly I'm here to say that I often wonder why we Americans gripe at the price of gas when it tittilates the $2.00 a gal rate. Few of us seem to remember 1974, with its gas lines, ration-
ing and high prices. I'm here to point out just one thing; there are at least seven European countries that have the equivalent of near $6.00 a
gal. gas. THAT'S A FACT JACK! They drive 4 cylind-
er cars that are thrifty as opposed to our vast array of GAS GUZZLING SUV's. Last point....Last week I pulled into a gas station next to a woman filling up a"HUMMER". She noticed my Hybrid and enquired if my $14.22 was a fillup? "Yes, at 9 gals", I replied. She was still filling as I left
and the pump was @ $75.00 and running. I SMILED.

falconone · October 2004

I'm with you 100% on your comments. I am praying for a $3.00 national average for gas so that people rethink their decisions on buying fuel efficient vehicles.

gagrice · October 2004

I'm here to point out just one thing; there are at least seven European countries that have the equivalent of near $6.00 a gal. gas.

Are the roads in those countries in perfect condition. They should be with over $4.00 a gallon in taxes. They pay the same price for crude oil as we do and they cannot be paying much more for refining. So they must have horrible taxes. Or maybe the European oil companies are robber barons. Our oil companies make a fortune so they must be making a huge amount of profit.

railroadjames · October 2004

Folks, its simple; adapt and change or suffer the coming repeat of 1974 only this time it will be much more drastic and you won't be able to give away those "GAS HOGS". One of my biggest reasons for going "GREEN" is because I was a "toot! toot! ding! ding! on the railroad for near 30 years. Look around you on all those EXPRESS(ha!) WAYS that your stuck in so much of the time. Notice all those trucks? Thats because we failed our railroads. In my area we turned several rails to trails for joggers & cyclists. Thats great but what happened. Think how much fuel is simply wasted in standstill traffic jams. By the way, a locomotive can haul the equivalent of 52-64 truck loads on the same fuel. Get the picture? Don't forget who's ruining your roads....SEMI's (because of their tremendous weight on wheels). Successful European countries show that railservice for both product and people is a far better way to accomplish efficient MASS TRANSIT. Lastly, when the high prices for fuel come (and they most certainly will), what will you do then,or will it be too late? CULLIGANMAN

gagrice · October 2004

I agree with all you say about the trucks and loss of rail service. I still think the hybrid is a bandaid and will always be more expensive than a diesel or electric vehicle to build. IF the electric storage devices ever get perfected the electric car will be far and away the most economical transportation. One such car has a 45 mile range that recharges in 1 hour at a cost of 25 cents worth of electricity. Nothing else comes even close to that. At today's gas price you would have to get 450 mpg in your Prius to match that. The auto manufacturers and oil companies are snowballing the public with all this hybrid business.

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=764

Sylvia · October 2004

OK - get back on topic - the discussion is about the Toyota Prius, not California.

If you would like to talk legislation, taxes, gas prices we have plenty of discussions covering those items.

backy · October 2004

Don't automakers usually charge extra for leather interiors? I know Toyota charges extra for leather in the Prius. So I am wondering why it would make any sense for Toyota to cover up a leather interior, for which they could charge more, with a cloth veneer. I know there will be many "rumors" flowing over the next couple of weeks as we approach Nov. 2, maybe this is just one of them--and no doubt with the same basis in reality as many of those other rumors.

jrct9454 · October 2004

Huh?

railroadjames · October 2004

Not all dealers are alike obviously. That's probably why when I walk into a dealership I'm on my guard until I get to know their sales format and their sales people. This being said, I went to three seperate dealers in our general area, comparing them. The car was available at all three and we test drove each. This gave us both a better, get aquainted with, experience with the PRIUS. After hearing the same sales pitch at all three (straight retail) we went with our closest dealer "Lakeshore Toyota" Northwest IND. The staff (salesman, service personel, and MGR) were all most cooperative and helpful. Three months later and no surprizes our blue Prius arrived. Our pkg #3 out the door was $22,688.00 complete & out the door. I have nothing but praise for Lakeshore Toyota. As to paying straight sticker, well, I never did b/4 but I can't complain. The car is all I could ask. What sealed the deal was the 8 yr warr. and the hand full of free-bees they gave us. Oh, and a full tank of gas. Culliganman

midnightcowboy · October 2004

jrct9454,

The Edmunds hosts combined a "Prius Easter eggs/ hidden features" thread into the mainstream 2004+ Prius thread. The leather message/response was a tongue-in-cheek in the Easter eggs thread as was the response you are questioning above. It was funny and and made sense in the isolated thread, but in the main Prius 2004+ thread the message/response lost some meaning and relevance.

I will apologize for the hosts for any confusion they inadvertently cause by reposting mine message and Backy's response.

YMMV,

MidCow

P.S.- It is a wonder anyone can not get somewhat confused with soooooooo... many Hybrid threads

midnightcowboy · October 2004

Backy's right,

The leather under the mouse fur was a tongue-in-cheek comment. It was pretty clear when it was under the Easter Eggs message thread and not quite as clear when moved into the mainstream Prius thread.

However, I did notice that apparently Toyota now offers a supported Leather upgrade for $1049, go to pricing on www.toyota.com website

Cheers,

MidCow

petl · October 2004

I don't own one, yet. I thought you might be interested in an article that's featured in the Toyota Gazette. It's a flyer that Canadian Toyota owners receive periodically (in the mail today). It talks about a 2001 Prius that was used as a Yellow (taxi) Cab in Vancouver.

In 25 months, the owner had put 332,000 kilometers (approx. 200,000 miles) on it. During that time it did not require any repairs to the hybrid system, or any major repairs beyond normal maintenance.

The only reason it was taken off the road was because Toyota wanted it back. Toyota offered to trade his vehicle for a 2003 so they could ship it to Japan, strip it down and check out every part. They wanted to see how the hybrid powertrain actually looked after all those kilometers. The article also talks about the mileage he was getting and the fact that the Prius required less overall maintenance than the conventional North American vehicles the company uses, including fewer wear and tear problems. You can find the article @ Toyota.ca under "What's New" - Toyota Gazette.

Hope this is not old news.

falconone · October 2004

Thanks.. this is very old news but new people arrive every day here. Thanks for sharing.

larsb · October 2004

This phoenix dealer has two 2004 Priuses in stock and a Certified 2002 for anyone looking to get off a waiting list faster:

http://www.scotttoyota.com

(I am not associated with this dealer in ANY WAY, I'm just a helpful guy)

devsienna · October 2004

Well, I haven't bought mine yet, but I did get a call from a local dealer who offered me a 2005 with package #6 (used to be package #9) for *only* $3000 over MSRP. Needless to say, I passed on it. I am content to wait to get it for cheaper. The dealer I did order from promised no markup on top of MSRP.

midnightcowboy · October 2004

The base price went up to $21,460 and the package #9 is now #6 and costs only $5,065 making the total cost $26,525 plus shipping. This is less than the 2004 pricing or an I missing something ??

gagrice · October 2004

I saw my first 2004 Prius on the road today. It was being used to deliver Pizza. It was a natural, kind of like the Oscar Meyer Wiener mobile. It will get a real workout with that job. My son wore out a 1994 Toyota PU in one year delivering Pizza's.

p3oz · October 2004

Last March I started looking for a used Prius sales online. What I found was the dealers were selling '01 or '02 Prius's driven from 40k to 60k - from not less that $16K. It took me some time (about a month) to finally find a 2001 Prius but with about 91K miles on board at this small used car dealer in San Diego County. I went to the dealer, checked the car out, and started negotiating with the dealer - in about 10 minutes we agreed on a price of $10K inclusive of all taxes plus a ten cd changer which the dealer would add into it. Its been about 7 months now and (knock on wood) - I've had no problems except for changing the front tyres - which I found cost about $100 a piece - (any leads on getting cheaper prius tyres would be highly appreciated). Well the story so far is I drive an average of not more than 20 - 30 miles a day, the average I'm getting is 40miles/gallon, visit the gas station twice a month, paying about 18 to 22 bucks each visit.

gagrice · October 2004

in about 10 minutes we agreed on a price of $10K inclusive of all taxes

According to Edmund's that car should have a trade-in value of $11k in good shape with that many miles. Sounds like you got a good deal.

p3oz · October 2004

I know. As per my conversation with the dealer I found that the dealer at some used car auction somewhere in mid-west had to take 5 cars - and the Prius was the 5th he was "forced" to pick since he didn't have any choice. Mercifully he didn't at our negotiations know much about aggressive the market was. - I wished I had the money power to buy a 04/05 prius with the pack 9 or pack 6 options, but still am happy with the 01. Maybe a couple of years from now I may be picking up a 04/05.

greengal · October 2004

I went through Costco & AAA and was led to Davis & Elk Grove Toyota in that order. Davis Toyota gives $750 off MSRP for Costco members with a 2-6 month wait. Elk Grove gives $0 off for AAA with a 2 month wait. What are other people finding in Northern CA, and what are others finding in other areas? I'm still sitting on the fence because my old Honda is still running like a champ and I don't want to get caught up in a Prius fever that may pop, leaving me with a car that's worth less than I owe. Thanks in advance to those more in the know.

mlnla · October 2004

I went for a test drive this weekend of a Prius and liked the car a lot. My local dealer quoted me these prices
pkg 1 $22,226
pkg 2 $22,647
pkg 6 $26,639

The dealer then requires you to choose some non factory up grades. First you must choose between LoJack or leather seats. Then you must choose between a list of items ranging from window tint to chrome wheels.

The bottom line is you end up buying approx $3000 more in upgrades. Has anyone ever heard of a dealer requiring you to purchase these extras in order to sell a car?

larsb · October 2004

If he doesn't want your money, find a dealer who does. They can certainly place any "condition" they want on what options they "require" the buyer to add, but you don't have to pay for anything unwillingly.

usbseawolf2000 · October 2004

You should test drive it when you get a chance.

Dennis

gagrice · October 2004

I tested them when they first came to San Diego in 2000. I liked it. Especially the silence at the stop lights. They still have a long way to go to be ready for what I would expect out of a car. The handling has never been great. The braking in spite of some of the tests is not up to what I would expect. I drive a lot out in the desert where the wind blows. Cross winds are a real weakness. I think it is a good commuter car, not as good as the Insight.

We just drove back from Las Vegas through a lot of rain. Dozens of the desert washes had water running across the road. I would not have felt comfortable crossing those streams with an electric vehicle. With the problems reported going through car washes in the Prius I would fear it would stop in the middle of the stream. I'll stick with the Lexus and Suburban until something better comes along. Nothing has so far.

usbseawolf2000 · October 2004

I mean test drive 04 Prius since the improvement took a leap instead of baby steps. BTW, I've never driven the classic Prius. People who drove 04 Prius do not make comments like Midcow.

Dennis

gagrice · October 2004

I went to the dealer in Hawaii to test one and he did not have a demo. Tried to sell me a Camry. He said it was a much better car than the Prius... That the Prius was a waste of money.... That was the sales manager at the Hilo, HI dealership..

falconone · October 2004

Sounds like the dealer is an idiot like most. BTW... flooding rains last week and saw a red 04 prius and its driver electrocuted when driving through a puddle. Fears like yours make me really laugh!!! Oh.. folks..congratulate me.. just bought a 2nd car (impluse purchase).. a Mini Cooper S Convertible. Jan 05 delivery (so they say). That car seems as hot as the Prius!!

falconone · October 2004

I was hoping that folks had an alternative to the Prius but I was wrong. The Ford Focus failed miserably in the rollover tests. The Ford Focus has a PZEV rating but that won't be beneficial in an unsafe car. Here is the link to the article. Pretty frightening!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041027/ap- _on_bi_ge/crash_tests

midnightcowboy · October 2004

"People who drove 04 Prius do not make comments like Midcow.

Interesting statement since I have test driven a 2004 Prius and I still make my comments.

YMMV,

MidCow

Toyota Prius

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