Toyota Prius

pjyoung · May 2005

How stable is the car in snowy/wet conditions? Because VSC really helps maintain control in those situations. And if you are in control, not only are the odds of you rolling over reduced, but so are the odds of you hitting something.

backy · May 2005

The Prius benefits from VSC because it's a relatively tall car compared to its length and width, and its tires are quite narrow by today's standards. Also it doesn't exactly have a sport-tuned suspension. The Corolla is also a relatively tall car for its size, and its suspension is similar to the Prius'. The Accord is a family car and I think could benefit from VSC. The Elantra could also, but today VSC is not offered on the Elantras sold in North America (maybe it will be on the next-gen model, since Hyundai seems to be putting VSC as standard on every new vehicle except their lowest-end econoboxes). I agree that low-slung sports cars like the MR2 would not benefit much from VSC, and in fact VSC can actually impair cornering in the hands of a skilled driver (which is why you see the auto mags mention sometimes that their slalom tests are hampered by VSC). But for most drivers and vehicles, VSC is of value.

bjrich · May 2005

Hello PJ;Hope this finds you fine and dandy and he Prius purring like a [non-permissible content removed] cat;;;;;
We are in our 4th week with our Pruis and we are really enjoying it..it is such a great car..roomy, confortable, full of neat gadgets, good looking and a super toy. We have been getting about 46 to 51 mpg..
We had leather seats put in and glass tinting last week//;; it is quite cozy;
We have started planning a lengthy trip for this fall..heading west and north and down the coast it is something we have talked about for years.
my friend from ov pk was here and fell in love with the Prius. Would not be surpised if he did;t buy one in the future

toyotaken · May 2005

First, I think that this particular discussion should probably be moved over to the Highlander Hybrid forum, but that being said... The HAH will actually have a version of VSA, but actually a newer, more proactive system. It's called VDIM (Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Managment) which is supposed to help prevent the vehicle from ever getting into a fishtail, plow, or rollover rather than correcting the circumstance after it has begun. Just an FYI.

Ken

stevedebi · May 2005

"Every car can benefit from stability control. It does NOT matter if the car is low to the ground. That is a foolish statement to say the least."

How many late model Honda's have you driven? How many late model Toyotas? If you have no experience with comparisons, I will leave it up to the reader to determine "foolish statements".

It is not a question of benefiting from VSA, it is a question of the degree of benefit. I said it doesn't need stability control, not that it wouldn't benefit. But with the HCH design, the anti-lock brakes will provide enough control, IMHO.

Are you suggesting that VSA is not more critical in cars that have softer suspensions, and a higher center of gravity?

midnightcowboy · May 2005

Actually VSC is over-hyped as to the safety factor on FWD cars that are not subject to roll-over. The only time it really comes into play is if you enter a turn too fast for the conditions. The result you skid forward instead of turning. Now how often does that really happen, not very often at all!

falconone · May 2005

Don't take this the wrong way, but trust ME when I tell you that VSC has saved my butt in a few cars. I wonder why they put it in high end cars like the Porsche, Audi, BMW, Benz and lastly, the Corolla (as an option). I rented a Ford Focus in Germany and it had it! You can't defy the law of physics, but SO many studies (European in particular) show that it saves lives. I guess that's why Chevy decided to put it in its Corvette too. All my cars have it and I won't buy a car without it.

falconone · May 2005

Try making a turn in snow with FWD and no VSC and with VSC and see the difference. I especially like them in FWD in snow just for that reason alone.

gagrice · May 2005

The Passat has a button to turn stability off if you want complete control. First car I have had it on. No slippery roads to test it on yet.

The Prius in base form does not come with VSC, front & rear curtain airbags or side airbags. You have to buy option package #4 or #6 to get those safety features. If you are going to put side airbags in a car they should be standard. Toyota uses it as an option to make the car look less expensive. I would think side and curtain airbags are more important than stability control. What percentage of the drivers drive on snow and ice in the USA?

jprice · May 2005

The Prius in base form does not come with VSC, front & rear curtain airbags or side airbags. You have to buy option package #4 or #6 to get those safety features.

Airbags are also included with packages 1, 3 and 5.

jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 4800 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.5MPG

falconone · May 2005

Side airbags are very important too. VSC is also great in the rain, not just snow. In San Diego I wouldn't care if the car didn't have it unless I hit an unexpected oil slick. Side airbags are DEF a must in small cars.

Kirstie_H · May 2005

A reporter with a national newspaper is writing an article on fuel-efficient cars like hybrids and diesels. The reporter would like to speak with Prius owners and people who have recently purchased a diesel such as a Mercedes E320, Passat or Jeep Liberty that are happy with their gas mileage. If you fit what the reporter is looking for, please send a brief description via email to Kirsten Holguin, kholguin@edmunds.com by June 3, 2005.

midnightcowboy · May 2005

Bring me some snow in Houston and I will try it.

pjyoung · May 2005

Have things changed in Houston since the early 80's...I recall that every time it rained, cars were in ditches. VSC might have helped.

backy · May 2005

As I recally, y'all had a pretty good snowfall just last Christmas, didn't you? I was down there then and remember talking with a friend about her harrowing journey over the Galveston causeway. I'll bet VSC would have helped her, but her old Avalon doesn't have it.

midnightcowboy · May 2005

Houston,

Yes it rains and there is flash flooding and water poolig. Houston drivers drive too fast most of the time and slow down somewhat in the rain. Given the average driving ability, I am not sure how much VSC would help in the rain. But I am still a realtively new Houstonian , only been here 3 years.

Snow, last Christmas yes. I live in the NE Houston area. It dusted the cars and dusted the grass and was gone in less than a hour. Didn't stick on the streets; too warm. There was more snow in the Galveston areas ( S Houston), but it still didn't stick on the road, melted mostly when it hit. There was some snow that stayed on the grass for a day or so. A true Houstonian has harrowing experiences every day driving. It is more harrowing when there is moisture. And even more harrowing when the moisture is in the form of white flakes.

I have RWD and FWD cars. One of the FWD ( the only automatic) has VSC and it used to do very well in the snow. Not so much becuae of the VCS but becuase it had M&S tires and was FWD. It rarely sees snow or ice anymore. I have a RWD car with traction control that is terrible in snow or ice and you are best to leave it a home.

VSC is beneficial for RWD becuase most drivers are not skilled enough or experience engough to turn into a skid. And the VSC is much much smarter and faster than even an experience driver can react. I think VSC provides benefit in this case. Especailly is a person tend to overdrive wet, icy, sleety, snowy conditions.

VSC is also good in cars with high center of gravity. Many SUV drivers drive their vehivcles like they were sports cars. SUVs being top heavy tend to roll-over instead of skidding. More sophisitcated VSC systems can help prevent rollover of the moderately stupid drivers. However, for the really stupid, even VSC cannot overcome the laws of physics.

Now FWD, VSC is only marginally helpfully. When you got to fast into a corner a car will tend to plow ahead instead of turning. This becomes more pronounced as the conditions of the rood become slicker dry:wet:sleety:icy Actually you should slow down in inclement conditions, but most people don't slow down enough. If you are goiung too fast for the road condition, then possibly VSC can help on FWD. However, I have driven in heavy snow with only FWD , with the right tires, without any problems. However, your experience may vary.

Good Luck,

MidCow

P.S.- I think VSC will be standard on all cars in 5-7 years.

molokai · May 2005

I believe that in Europe it has been shown to be quite effective in reducing accidents. CU is also a strong proponent of it. I'm sold on it as it has saved my butt a few times in some slick conditions. FWD vehicles tend to plow forward in snow when trying to turn, and this option would help that considerably. It is definitely NOT over hyped.

midnightcowboy · May 2005

Molokai,

I am opened minded and invite you to show me some references where I am wrong. You have alluded to some Euorpean testing and CU reprots, please provide some URLs.

I think plowing forward in snow is a very isolated case caused by driving way too fast under the conditions. I stand by my original premise that vehicle skid control is over-hyped in front wheel drive cars.

Thanks,

MidCow

rjqman · May 2005

A question - my daughter is considering buying either a Prius or an Audi TT - I would appreciate knowing what you thought of the two as an owner of both. I know most would not consider them direct competing vehicles, but she is female, and, well, I think you understand. We live in Tampa Florida, a warm climate with a flat landscape, if that would be helpful. I do not know if I am allowed to give my e-mail in these forums or if it will be erased by the moderator, but if I am allowed to do so you can respond to me by e-mail at RJQMAN @ aol.com. Thanks, Luigi.

Bob Q. :confuse:

molokai · May 2005

Midcow.. when I come across those articles, I'll post the links for you. As you mentioned, this option will be standard equipment on all new cars within the next five years or so. I think it is more advantageous in RWD cars, but FWD cars definitely benefit from it too. That is why VW, Audi, Mercedes have it available on all their cars. The Ford Focus used to have it as an option until 2003. The buyers were not educated enough to realize the benefits so Ford eliminated the option AFTER '03. Pity. I suggest the next rain storm you go to a car dealer and ask them to demonstrate the benefits of skid control on a FWD car. You'll be amazed and maybe even thank me.

rjqman · May 2005

Can you disconnect the annoying beeper with programming and information provided with the car, or did you have to go in a modify something (disconnect a wire or something?)

molokai · May 2005

There is a way for you to do it. I did it and it took 2 min. Just do a google search and you'll find tons of sites that will give you step by step instructions. I was a happy camper once that beeper was off!!

john1701a · May 2005

Yes, you can shut off the beeping. In fact, the instructions have already been posted here... somewhere. Just do some searches. Another source is in the Prius User-Guide.

JOHN

rjqman · May 2005

I just found detailed instructions on how to do it under Item #30 in the Edmunds Prius Owners Modifications and Accessorys Forum. It is a small forum but has a lot of Prius information.

rjqman · May 2005

I test drove a Prius this weekend and it did not seem to get comfortable. Since we live in a very hot and humid part of south Florida, Air Conditioning performance is important. Has anyone else got an experience or even an educated opinion about the electric AC in the Prius?

molokai · May 2005

If you keep the a/c on recirc and around 70 F, it should cool down the cabin quite adequately. I find it one of the best A/C units in any of the recent cars I've owned. There are quite a few users on the Prius forums that live in Florida and love the A/C. Keep the car for an extended test drive to see if you can get the temp to your liking. If not, there may be something wrong with the car you tested.

molokai · June 2005

I implore all potential Prius buyers to consider VSC in their Prius (or any other car you're considering)

http://www.drivers.com/article/671/

http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2004/pr102804.htm

http://www.automotive.com/news/25/7956/

I post these reports as numerous posters have said that stability control is not a worthwhile option. I, myself, would never consider a car without it.

midnightcowboy · June 2005

None of the sites you reference actually provide the testing criteria or the actual data. It is there interpretation of simulators and simluated data and only what they think might happen. This is not real historical data; it can't be, but only a predictor of what might take place.

That being said stability control is very important in preventing rollover in vehicles with high center of gravity such as SUVs. It is also more imporatnat in RWD ( rear wheel drive ) cars that tend to have the rear end swing around is the three (3) significant conditions : ( 1) entering a curve too fast for road conditions, (2) abrupt lane change, and (3) sudden wind gusts. The Prius is FWD (front wheel drive) and the benefit would be prevent plowing, going straight ahead instead of turning. The point is that VSC ( or whatever name stability control is called on a particular vehicle) is LESS BENEFICIAL ON FWD CARS
That doen't mean there isn't any benefit, no one ever said that. It is just that the best benefit for the buck in descending order is: (1) rollover prevention, (2) RWD swing around prevention and (3) FWD plowing prevention.

Now when, the insurance companies recognize the benfits of VSC with monetary discounts, example your car has VSC here is another 10-15% discount on your insurance rate, then I will recognize the importance of VSC on FWD.

QUESTION : do insurance companies give discounts for VSC ?

Drive the conditions, Live longer, cruis'n in 6th :shades: .

MidCow

pjyoung · June 2005

The air conditioner in both my Prius' is VERY good. I usually like it cooler than normal, but I find myself setting it to a WARMER setting. It's the best AC in any car I've owned. FWIW, my cars are black and salsa red.

molokai · June 2005

The statistics I've read speak for themselves. Having driven a FWD car in the snow with VSC, I am quite certain that it is BETTER than FWD without VSC. If it had no value, then manufacturers wouldn't offer it. I still say Honda is behind the times and is making a mistake not offering it in their flagship model. Maybe they want people to pay bigger bucks to go into their Acura line to get the safety they deserve. Stats don't lie, stability control saves lives. Insurance companies do not offer discounts yet. I expect they will soon.

gagrice · June 2005

BETTER than FWD without VSC

I thought that I read that one Prius owner had difficulty going in snow because the VSC would not allow the wheels to spin. I may have read the post wrong. It was during the winter.

pjyoung · June 2005

IT's not VSC - it's traction control that won't let the wheels spin in snow. From what I read, traction control won't let the wheels spin to prevent damage to the electric motor.

molokai · June 2005

I put Nokian tires on and love em. TC never even kicks in. It's the OEM tires that are horrible.

c2rosa · June 2005

Feds Investigate Hot-Selling Toyota Hybrid

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_investigation

c2rosa · June 2005

Officials eye Toyota Prius stalling

Regulators plan to conduct investigation over engine stalling.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/01/Autos/toyota_prius/

lorid · June 2005

:confuse: the biggest thing I hate are those crappy looking little tires.
what did you put on, are they bigger, and can you make the car sit a little higher this way?
you can tell I'm kinda car-clueless.

lorid · June 2005

:confuse: I bought a 2004 prius (12,000 miles) 3 days ago. my mileage has been avg about 35-40 , am I doing something wrong?
and what SHOULD the motor be doing and when...with the reports that came out yesterday, I want to be sure it is doing what it should. I haven't stalled but the report also said that the engine malfunctions somehow and discharges the battery.
Hope I didn't make a mistake

midnightcowboy · June 2005

You didn't make a mistake, you got a great car.

The software stalls affect only a very small number and there are 2 TSBs that address the issues as currently known. You should already have had those two fixes applied. Toyota and the NHSTA are investigating the cause of the stalling and may have another TSB ( software fix) in the future. If there is a significant problem it will be fixed!

Mileage 35-40 is maybe a little low, but people who driving normal like they did with other cars seem to only get this mileage or in the low 40s. There are special hype-mileage techniques, but you really have to drive very slow and tepid (pardon the expression, like an old lady) to obtain them. There is a thread on getting high muleage or you can search this Prius thread; Edmund's search engine is very good.

Cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,

MidCow

P.S.- Relax and enjoy your Prius

lorid · June 2005

I bought a 2004 prius (12,000 miles) paid 22k before tax.......I feel like an idiot now

gagrice · June 2005

I bought a 2004 prius (12,000 miles) 3 days ago.

Welcome to the forum. If you bought the car from a Toyota dealer check with the service manager for any TSBs that are issued for the car. Make sure they are done and you will be fine. Midcow is right the mileage is dependent on your driving habits. You will learn to take advantage of the Prius and get higher mileage.

backy · June 2005

What equipment/package does your Prius have? Some 2004 Priuses listed for over $26k, so $22k with only 12k miles may actually be a pretty good deal.

b0gman · June 2005

I know a few ppl who have 05 Prii(not sure on how to make Prius plural) if you drive like you would in a normal car dont expect better than low 40s. The highway milage figure that the epa obtained was obtained in lab conditions at a speed of 55mph after 55 the milage drops considerably. Not to bash the Prius but if you wanna drive fast and still get good milage consider a Jetta TDi, with an automatic most owners of the newer ones are getting mid 40s ive even heard of low 50s. My jetta has a 5spd and I rarely get a combined milage below 50mpg on my 100 mile daily commute which I drive at about 80-90 mph(no police). On long trips ive gotten as high as 59mpg(I was doing the legal 70mph speed limit).

stevedebi · June 2005

"The software stalls affect only a very small number and there are 2 TSBs that address the issues as currently known. "

Mid:
While your statement is technically correct, it must be noted that we are not yet sure if all the cars reporting the failure did not have the TSB applied. There could be a different error involved, perhaps even caused by one of the TSBs...

Whatever the cause, it is affecting only a very small percentage of the Prius out there.

prius · June 2005

Does anyone know how much the price for a new 2006 Prius will be going up from the price of a 2005 Prius? Has anyone heard want the new model will have? Has anyone bought a 2005 Prius with "NO OPTION" package in the Chicago area?
What is VSC?
Thats all my questions
Thanks :shades:

molokai · June 2005

I just came back from Canada and was going 75 or so and the computer averaged 48.1. Not bad!! I wasn't spewing diesel fumes at the 30 minute border wait either.

dmathews3 · June 2005

I heard almost $2600, and I also hear that they lose money on each of them due to the amount of technology/equipment that goes into each of them.

molokai · June 2005

Not true at all. There will be a slight increase, but DEF not $2600. Also old news is that Toyota loses money on each one. I also understand McDonalds loses money on each Big Mac sold. Don't believe the rumors. True there is alot of R & D that has gone into the hybrid technology, but based on the way Toyota wishes to amortize it, they are NOT losing money on each unit they sell. Don't forget that as each new platform adopts the HSD, those R & D costs are spread over more units. I envision that in five years, there will be very little premium to pay for their hybrid versions. That's just a guess!!

falconone · June 2005

You may have overpaid a bit, but if you have the fully loaded version, it's not that bad. You should make sure all the software updates have been performed. Enjoy your car!! Don't think about the price, just think about the years of enjoyment ahead. Life's too short.

pdavid · June 2005

Is there a way to turn off the automatic resetting of the mpg on the 2005 Prius every time you fill up. I recently traded in my 2001 Prius for a 2005 model and am very impressed with the improvements Toyota has made in the later model, but I don't like the way it automatically resets the mpg whenever you fill up with gas. On my 2001 model I hadn't reset the mpg for over 13,000 miles and my average was 44.6 when I traded it in. Now I need a pencil, paper and calculator to figure my mgp on a long trip.
On a recent trip I went 544 miles without a low fuel warning before filling up and got 52.1 mpg. On that same trip I drove another 500 + miles (from Espanola NM to Liberal KS) and averaged 54.3 mpg. I really like the new Prius.

hawf · June 2005

I own a 2004 Prius and love the car. My average gas mileage is 52.4 mpg. My lowest average mileage has been 46.8 mpg. I live in a rural area and do most of my driving on the highway rather than in town. Even though the car is supposed to achieve its highest mpg in town, I have found that I get the best mileage on the highway.

The only truly annoying thing I have found on the Prius is the incessant "beeping" of the car when you put it in reverse. I would prefer that it beeped only when there was some obstacle behind the car when backing up.

Toyota Prius

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