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The EURO/NCAP test is like the IIHS and the Prius is the same as the Passat. Why the IIHS hasnt tested the Prius in 3 yrs+ is surprising to me.
As for why the IIHS hasn't tested the current Prius... Toyota can pay for a test any time they want to. For instance, Honda asked the IIHS (paid the IIHS?) for early tests of the '06 Civic. And based on the results, we know WHY Honda did this. This is one frustrating thing about the IIHS tests--it can take forever for them to test a vehicle. At least the NHTSA keeps up pretty well with the testing of popular models.
TOKYO — After nearly two years on sale, Toyota finds it still can't crank out enough versions of its smash hit Prius hybrid to go around. Production at the main plant building in Japan is set to double this summer, up to 120,000 units a year, according to a Japanese newspaper report.
One of our more frequent posters is highly critical of the Prius for being slow because it takes a half-second to a second too long to get from 0 to 60; he even calls it unsafe, at least in Houston traffic. I lived in Houston from April of 95 to Nov of 97 -- one could argue that it's unsafe to drive in Houston period -- people drive quite fast and have the habit of running stop lights (the rule in Houston is if the car ahead of you goes thru the light, you can also go thru it too, even if it has changed to red).
Most people don't floor the accelerator to get maximum 0 to 60 performance -- ever. In my Prius, I can get from 0 to 60 in the same amount of time that the majority of other drivers get from 0 to 60 -- if I so choose. Occasionally, one needs to tromp it a bit to merge into traffic. The Seattle area is full of short on-ramps that merge directly into traffic. In most cases, the Prius accelerates sufficiently to accomplish the merge successfully. In a FEW instances, I elect to slow down and wait for a larger gap before merging -- in these same cases with the Explorer, I sometimes elect to tromp it, but sometimes I slow and wait for the gap. The trick is to become familiar with the capabilities of your vehicle and drive accordingly. When traffic is really heavy (i.e. small gaps), it is also slow so acceleration is not an issue.
Regarding the Consumer Reports article, I have some problems with it. First, they compared the Prius with the Corolla only. I think they should have also included a comparison to the Camry. Second, they stated that hybrids depreciate faster than non-hybrids. I don't believe this to be true. In the same issue, the Prius gets a big red circle (best) for depreciation while the Corolla has a clear circle (average). They also penalized the Prius because owners are more likely to got to Toyota dealership for service. Certainly I will do so for some types of maintenance/repair, but I do the same thing with non-hybrids. I let Firestone or Les Schwab do tire stuff, maybe oil changes, etc. For major stuff, I like to go to dealerships because they have the expertise.
I test drove a Camry the same day I drove the Prius. It's a little bigger, a little quieter, and a little smoother, but it gets much less mpg. For about the same $$, I elected to go with the Prius that will save me $$ on fuel and lead to overall lower ownership cost.
"We also had a chance to drive the Hybrid on the race track. With 192 horsepower on tap from the combination gasoline motor and electric motor, acceleration was more than adequate for daily driving with Toyota claiming a 0-60 acceleration time of 8.9 seconds. That is a lot better than the lethargic Toyota Prius. (of course, it doesn't get the Prius' gas mileage of 60 MPG city and 51 MPH highway, but hey, you can't have everything)"
I am not the only one who says a Prius is too slow,
MidCow
>
>I am not the only one who says a Prius is too slow,
>
>MidCow
Slow acceleration? Yes. Slower acceleration than the Camry? Yes. Too slow? No...they didnt say that. And by the way...it doesnt have a manual tranny, either.
1. tired: physically slow and mentally dull as a result of tiredness, disease, or drugs
2. causing lethargy: causing a state of physical slowness and mental dullness
3. tired: physically slow and mentally dull as a result of tiredness, disease, or drugs
4. causing lethargy: causing a state of physical slowness and mental dullness
5 : abnormal drowsiness
6 : the quality or state of being lazy, sluggish, or indifferent
7. lethargic - deficient in alertness or activity; "bullfrogs became lethargic with the first cold nights" "Prius are lethargic cars, i.e. they accelerate very slow"
unergetic
8. inactive - not active physically or mentally; "illness forced him to live an inactive life"; "dreamy and inactive by nature"
Cheers,
MidCow
P.S. -Looking4Prius you are right, The lack of a manual transmission is another deficiency to be discussed at another time and place.
OTOH on the Interstates I am the passer ( @46 mpg :P ) to most of the sensible Accords inhabitting the middle lane.
No one is disputing that the Prius is slower than many vehicles, but there are several other models who are slower. Are they too slow? Are you going onto the Hummer threads and calling it too slow? Just wondering.
Mid - your opinion is noted...and noted...and noted...and noted some more. We got it. Most of us disagree with you. No minds are being changed here, one way or the other. Could I suggest giving it a rest for awhile? Unless and until something really changes? You don't want a Prius, have said so repeatedly, and that's fine - there is a whole universe of people, including this hard-core car nut, who believe it's a viable alternative. Vive la difference....
I place myself within the aggressive/fast genus of driver types and I've been able to "live with" the Subaru's performance over 3 years of ownership. Being a younger, single person I certainly didn't pick a mid-size wagon out of necessity and I knew going in that I was buying something that was slow relative to other new cars.
It's pretty well known that slower cars tend to calm the driver. I used to own a V6 MT Contour and I drove that thing into the ground, basically, doing one stoplight run after another (it's fun for sure). I think I'd end up in trouble eventually. The Prius probably serves as an excellent calming device for those of us predisposed to spirited driving.
If you want a car for burning up the back roads on the weekends, well, the Subaru and the Prius won't float your boat. But the typical Accord/Camry V6 buyer rarely uses the 200-275hp under their hood. Oh yes, highway merging. Whatever. That's what manual trannies are for: hold the car in gear and take it up to redline if need be. I don't have a problem with power. Sure, more power may be more fun, no doubt about that, but with my lifetime 22.1 mpg from the Outback, I don't need a larger engine to guzzle even more gas. Cripes!
I'm going to test drive the Prius soon, if I can. I think giving up the MT would be the hardest part, not the 0-60 performance.
Okay , let's move on what good input can you provide or have you provided on the Prius? Being a really hard-core car nut, I guess I just follow a lot of technology, trends, and cars. I like the new 2007 Camry Hybrid. I thin it is a better application of the HSD technology.
Again, you being a hard core car nut, what are your thoughts and opinions? What kind of car/s do you drive?
Cheers,
MidCow,
P.S.- TDI is good ( sad to hear VW isn't going to import TDIs after this Year ), even though TDI 0-60 acceleration is slow in seconds, it is quick off the line because of high diesel torque at low rpm; I guess in a way the Prius is somewhat similair with MG1 and MG2 acting as Ms. I would never touch any of the H cars; trucks and SUVs, minivans, and othe big lumbering vehicles are not my thing! I had enough driving a huge "duece and a half" truck in the Army.
P.S.S.- Toyota Designers look at Edmunds and this Prius column in particular. If I give them one thought or one future idea that they consider at all, whether of not they implement it, then I will consider my rantings successful
Moving on ......... :P
Miles per Gallon. So far, after one tank (which I know isnt representative, but it does show a trend), I am getting 44.3 mpg. Yes, there are other cars that can get similar or even better mileage, but being a computer programmer who is used to pressing a 'Start' button in the morning at work (a certain operating system, not a car), it appeals to me.
Parking brake is a foot brake, not a hand brake. Now, this may seem odd, but my father (bless his soul) at 85 years old always kept hold of the handbrake while he was driving with me. When he wanted to make a point while we were talking, he would pull the brake. No more.
A clean emissions car. As I have said before, my job is monitoring smog generated by powerplants in my area and reporting the results to the federal and state governments. So I am quite aware of the laws and rules that exist regarding smog emissions. If the environmental folks in the government in our area had the authority to say that only hybrid cars could be used on the roads, they would, but they cannot.
A rather large trunk space. When the rear seats are folded down, there is quite a bit of room in the back for storage. This is partly because of the design of the hatchback.
Roomy seating. I have a brother who is 6'8" and a dad who is 6'7". They fit fine.
My wife likes it. She really likes the idea that the engine does not run when at a stoplight. It doesnt bother her at all, and she has no problem driving the car.
What would I change? Well, I still think that the display is distracting...I have turned mine off. It still comes on for the backup camera and when I need to set the A/C, but otherwise I dont need the screen on all the time. That should be software selectable.
And, to be honest, I still am concerned about Neutral. From what I have been told, to shift into Neutral requires power to the system, and even so, it is not a true neutral where the transaxle is completely disconnected from the engine/motor/planetary gear set. I would rather have a true, manual neutral should the car get into an accident such that the system could not be turned on. Not a clutch, mind you, but simply a setup so that the transaxle could be manually disengaged.
Other defintions:
nisi prius (knee-see pree-us) adj. Latin for "unless first," in some jurisdictions it means the original trial court which heard a case as distinguished from a court of appeals, as in court nisi prius. "Court of original jurisdiction" is often substituted for the term nisi prius. (See: original jurisdiction, trial court).
Nisi Prius Law and Legal Definition
Nisi prius is a Latin term, meaning "unless the first". A nisi prius court is a court in which as case is first heard by as judge and jury, as opposed to an appellate level court. A nisi prius court is also called the "court of original jurisdiction" .
Under former English law, an issue was to be tried by a jury from the county of which the proceedings are dated, unless before the day appointed (nisi prius) the judges shall have come to the county in question (which they always do) and there try the cause. Nisi prius court judges became rarer as the travel demanded they travel longer distances.
pri•us
Pronunciation: (prī'us), [key]
—adj.
(in prescriptions) before; former.
===============================
As in a movie, what is the sequel ?
"After" : praeter, secundum
"Next" : tunc, posterus, postremo, porro, deinde
So i think the Next gen Prius should be called >"Praeter"
YMMV,
MidCow
What appeals to me about the Prius are the same things that I observed 2 years ago when the new version was first released: it's a unique combination of REAL room for 4 REAL adults, a hatch, 16+ cubic feet of cargo space, and an honest 40 mpg.
I wanted the MB B-Class, or the BMW 1-series, but in both cases, the Germans [or more correctly, their American dealers] chickened out and refused to bring either car to this country. [One can buy the B-Class in both Canada and Mexico, but not here]. The Audi A3 was the closest thing, and a real hoot to drive, but too expensive as typically configured on dealer lots, and nowhere nearly as economical to own.
I hope that's a satisfactory contribution to the forum. As I said, if you don't want one, you're entitled to that opinion...I just get weary of hearing the same arguments repeated, especially on a topic as subjective as performance. The car seems quick enough for me, in one of the more crowded and hostile urban environments I've had to deal with. You disagree. OK.
How about the putting the shoe on the other foot, what good input can you provide or have you provided for the Prius?
It is interesting how you proclaim the goodness of the TDI's when they are slower than the Prius. You are correct in the good low rpm torque of diesel is the same benefit that the Prius gets with it's electric motor. Specifically it is 295 lb-ft torque from 0–1,200 rpm for the electric motor.
The fact that you wouldn't touch any of those lumbering vehicles doesn't change the fact that their acceleration is slower than the Prius. Perhaps you need to go to the Hummer boards and give GM some tips on improving their acceleration. You may feel like your rantings are successful, but most on this board feel like your rantings are just that...rantings. Rantings that quickly become tiresome and seem like they are biased attempts at trying to dissuade people from a car.
Plus consider, for the one or two that say that the acceleration should be better, the overwhelming majority of those in this board say it is fine. Which do you think that Toyota is going to listen to in the end? Honda raised the acceleration considerably for the HAH, and look how well that worked. The fact is that Toyota or whatever the company is that are trying to make hybrids mainstream are going to offer a variety of hybrid vehicles. Some of these will include Prius like, modest accelaration with great fuel economy, Camry's with good acceleration with good fuel economy, etc, etc. One application is not going to fit everyone, just as one vehicle type (or motor size) fits everyone. The beauty of HSD is that in can be used in a variety of different applications to fill all the differents needs and wants out there.
In our year and a half with the Prius, we have had no problems and would be another if we could. The longer we drive, the better the performance gets. The first year our mpg was 48 and the last 6 months it has been 50+.
From what I understand the Prius will continue to be the launch vehicle for new technology:
Gen1
Original hybrid drive concept
Gen2
HSD
BT
SKS
PSD
Gen3 due in 18 mos
Already in the books just a matter of details now.
I look for the next generation to feature more efficient battery with increased performance possiblities (either acceleration or fuel economy). I would also love to see the EV switch standard. Some have surmised that it may have the Lithium-Ion quick charge batteries with a plug-in option. It's hard to tell, since Toyota still seems pretty anti-plugin, but 18 months is a long time. They may be looking for the Camry to really make the HSD mainstream and really go for it (improved fuel economy or completely gas free for many commutes) with Gen3.
Proof that people are still clamoring for the Prius combination of acceleration and fuel economy is CNN's recent article on the ten hottest cars in the US. Number one is the Prius based on days on the lot, lowest amount of rebates, and how closely to MSRP it sells for. I am not sure if posting a link to the article is okay, but here it is: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/16/Autos/hot_cars/index.htm
Not so much too hard as too expensive. This is the function of the Marketing dept, Toyota's is among the best if not the best in the auto industry, to find out what sells and what the greatest number of buyer want. In the case of the HH it was IMO a 'tagalong' to the 400h which was the first Lexus hybrid with 12000 advance orders. Since the two vehicles are the same except for glitz it makes sense to add some volume to the hybrid SUV platform by making some Toyota product to go along with the Lexus product. Increase volume / decrease costs.
I think a 2.4L +HSD HH would double or triple sales in the Toyota line but would it be more expensive to produce both a 400h and a 2.4L HH? That I dont have a clue about but it makes sense that it would.
I've read earlier posts and it seems that many people are not recommending the Prius for people who mostly put on highway miles on their cars. Is this really the case? I live in the country, but commute every day (or almost) to the nearby city (about 40 miles away). I really like the looks, praticality and comfort of the Prius, but am wondering if I should be considering another car, considering I won't reaping the full benefits of the HSD.
Thanks!
One question. Do you drive through a lot of snow? If so I would ask people in your area about the Prius.
I rented out a Prius and really really liked it, but I'm not sure if spending the extra cash for the Hybrid system to be worth the expense, considering the type of driving I must make.
Yes, I do drive quite a bit around in the snow. I live in Ottawa, Ontario.
Only alternative that I'm aware - is to go with Toyota Corrola; about $3K less, about same highway mpg - but smaller.
I think bigger concern is the reliablity of the technology and available resources to repair once you get away from the dealer. This offset by the reliability of Toyota. The 1.3L engine is a proven workhorse - should get 200K miles out of the gasoline engine.
The relaive low ground clearance can be issue with snow - as any other vehicle with the same ground clearance.
:shades:
It's been a question apparently throughout all the Toyota models having VSC/Trac. I think the new Camry is the first to have the 'slipping trac' so to speak. Computer adjustment. And it only occurs when you stomp on the pedal in a slick situation, slow careful accelerations dont seem to induce the trac to kick in.
I was out there with tape measure at the dealership. Prius has 37-38 inches between the wheelwells in the cargo area and at least 60 inches from hatch lid to the top of the rear seatbacks rolled forward. The cargo area is admirably flat and you don't have to tilt the rear seat cushions forward either.
I'm waiting for the Honda dealer to tell me when they have the Fit in stock. 33/38 and since it's positioned as a Gen Y vehicle (that will be bought by 50-somethings, Echo Redux), it's cheap too (read 14-16K). With the Magic Seats, the Fit can apparently hold a decent amount of cargo too. It's that or the Prius. Big difference in price, yes. Prius worth 10K more? Cannot say.
My overall mpg is at 44 right now. That's for around 5800 miles. The colder temperatures do bring the mileage down some.
I haven't really driven the car in snow, just slush. For some reason it has hardly snowed around here this year. And the one time it did snow somewhat heavily I drove my 4x4 truck.
As for reliability, I hedged and bought the 7/70 extended warranty ... just in case. This is for the non-HSD part of the car. Toyota's warranty on the HSD is either 8/80 or 10/100. You'll have to look it up because I don't remember what it is.
But what gets me is that $3000 or so federal tax credit because if that's not there, the Prius is basically out of the running. It's limited to 60K hybrids per manufacturer and Toyota probably isn't very far from that today, just 79 days into 2006. So that's another game: Maybe the tax credit will be exhausted before the Fit hits the market in a month.
However, one of the benefits of the Prius being a hybrid is that it can have a smaller engine. Even if the gas engine is running all the time at highway speeds, it is still pretty darn efficient (note at highway speeds). Even when it starts to dip below 40 at 75-80mph how many cars get that kind of mileage at those speeds?
For what is worth, most of the people on Priuschat and other sites (even the CR reports) say you will usually get closer to the highway estimate of 50mpg than you will to the city estimate of 60mpg.
I would recommend renting one but you already did. Now whether or not it is worth some extra money is hard to say. It may depend on how long you are going to keep the car, what the other car you would get would be (and it's cost/mileage) and other intangibles like the gadgets and neatness of the car.
It is pretty difficult to justify getting the Prius over a used Corolla (or civic) in terms of gas savings. Needless to say, you get a much better car than either of those, but if you are happy with those, then I would go that route. At extra $5k or more for 15mpg extra on the highway takes a long time to make up the initial cost. As gas prices go up, then it can make up that difference much faster.
One thing to note is that pretty much everyone I have seen post from wintery climates think the stock tires are horrible and get great performance in the snow with winter tires (aside from the low clearance). A site you might peruse is http://john1701a.com/ as he comes from a northen climate (Minnesota it looks like).
The prius is very quiet, even at highway speeds. You can easily go 70-75mph and think you are going much slower.
I usually keep my cars for 6 years or so, but realize that I'd have to keep my car for about 10 years before I recoup the savings on gas. That said, I must admit that I'm a greenie, and loved the fact that my car doesn't keep running on stops or when I'm stuck in traffic. When I rented my Prius, that's probably the thing that impressed me the most. You look at the cars around you that ARE still running and think that all cars should be like the Prius; having an engine running at idle just seems like a crazy thing to do now.
I've also heard that the stock tires are pretty crappy, and looked into getting Michelins. They do make some, and I was thinking about going with those. They'd probably make the car a bit more comfortable too, if it wasn't comfortable already...
When I rented the Prius, I consistently got 50 MPG with the cruise control on set at 72 MPH.
Can there be less than zero noise from driving?
-Need package 4 (for the VSC) but dealers seem to have TONS of pkg #6 and a few #3. Not paying for equipment I don't want.
-Interest rates are high/Toyota refuses to subsidize. My current loan is 2.9%/60 months and I do not want to switch to a 5.95%/60 month. The Prius is too expensive for me to pay off in cash.
-Cost of ownership questions. With the impending flood of hybrids in the next couple of years you have to wonder if the Prius is going to be such a hot ticket on the resale market.
-I am afraid to give up Subaru AWD for a FWD with low RR tires. I will not switch to snow tires in winter because we have "too many" dry winter days in Philly and the pricey winter tires will just get worn out.
-I might regret going from MT to CVT. I really like shifting my own gears.
-I don't have many complaints about my Outback other than fuel consumption. I think it's more sensible just to keep driving it (only 30K on the odometer).
The Prius is definitely a neato car and I want it for "emotional reasons" but when I think about it more from a rational perspective I really should hold off. If gas goes back to $3.25 maybe I'll change my mind.
You are probably right. 50 Km /Hr is equivalent to only 31.075 miles per hour. There are no highways with speeds that low. So maybe rural roads adn back streets are the most efficient places to drive a Prius for hypermileage!
Cheers,
MidCow
Being older and male... my concern is that the car has the attached stigma of being a "chick" car.
My wife seems to think it is a girl's car... and I am just wondering how many "men versus women" have purchased the car?
Frankly I never gave it a second thought until she mentioned it, but now it is on the back of my mind... it kind of took the "wind out of my sail"!
Also, I too have another car that works fine, gets about 22 mpg... I just wanted to jump on the bandwagon like some of you already have and be prepared for when gas rises again.
Should wait for the Hybrid Camry?
What do you think?
Gampa
I don't think so. It is does not seem to be gender specific like say the VW Beetle. It is for folks that like the space ship techno transformer look.
In SE VA in the heart of one of the largest military installations on earth...
3 NASA engineers;
4 Navy nuke engineers;
Multiple doctors;
multiple process servors ( all male );
numerous retired couples on the road between children all the time;
several real estate agents
4 Navy nuke engineers; Multiple doctors; multiple process servors ( all male );several real estate agents"
Do you mean to imply that these professions cannot be women? Otherwise I don't see how this proves it isn't a "chick's car".
It was only on the process server occupation that I mentioned any gender spedificity.
That's an interesting interpretation on your part though.
Getting into the gender side of it, it's often too edgy to be stylish enough for most women. 'Geek car' comes to mind.
Drive what you want to drive, not what others expect you to drive.