Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Back to car talk.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you roll those costs into the lease, and your car disappears after a couple of months, you are only out a couple of payments... If you pay the taxes and fees upfront ($2500-$3000), and the car disappears, you will be out a couple of payments + $2500-$3000.
That would be a very expensive 2-month lease...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
State that you are ready to sign and take deliver - and stand by it.
State how are you planning to pay - cash, lease or purchase.
Go through a site that allows you to email multiple dealerships like Edmunds.com, don't name the price, wait for the best offer and the most professional response.Example:
looking for the best deal on a new Mazda 3i sedan Touring AT, silver or gray, will sign tomorrow, paying cash.
----
hey guys i'm a first time buyer (college student). this will be my first brand new car so tryign to do my homework. i just want to make sure this is a good deal as my friend referred me to his cousin who works at the dealer, so therefore i have the idea im getting some sort of "hook up" but who knows right? they said i could have it for invoice since i know his cousin, however invoice was higher than i saw online, turns out becasue of holdback and other fees. here is the breakdown of their MSRP / invoice prices:
LE base model - $16,215 / 14,188
BE Airbag option - 655 / 563
VV Audio option - 200 / 180
C1 and CF Floor mats - 171 / 114
total so far: MSRP 17,241 / invoice 15,045
so far so good right? but then down below are added to "invoice" price:
destination - 620 (ok everyone pays this right)
TDA - 177 (advertising i think)
Gasoline - 10
Dealer HOldback - 324 (ouch... umm dont they get this after the fact??)
Wholesale Finance Reserve - 162
Total cost of this below the line stuff is 1,293, and makes my total invoice price 16,338.
Any opinions??? I thought holdback was a way for them to get money after the sale directoyr from Toyota not a fee I had to pay?? Comments on paying TDA or other fees? At first i was excited to hear from my friend I could get it for inovice but this seems to bump me way up there. The prices do not include the 750 rebate so i would be looking at 16,338 - 750 = 15,588 + doc and DMV fees. I want to make sure his cousin is actually giving me a deal, or do i need to start visiting other dealers. Of course I dont want to see unapreciative either if he really is getting me a deal.
your input is greatly appreciated..
These are my last words on this and I'm through.
I would think that any self respecting rat poison would be much more fearful of being laced with Pizza Hut pizza than vice versa.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Definitely go to another dealer...as this "cousin" is no friend.
Actually he's a crook.
And that's being nice.
Maybe, maybe not. Big question is in what capacity does he work at the dealer? Just because he works there doesn't mean he is able to get certain people good prices.
Secondly if they are adding holdback onto the price I would run, not walk, to the nearest exit.
As for the price IIRC Corolla's are going for between invoice and MSRP and closer to MSRP.
do i need to start visiting other dealers.
You always want to visit other dealers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
check out www.fitzmall.com for some straight shooting no haggle pricing. Will give you something to compare the local offers to, can look at a number of different vehicle option packages online, saving a lot of dealer trips.
http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=773733&photo=TO071822- &loc=LFT&mall=GA&year=2007&mk_code=TO
Never bypass due diligence because you are dealing with a "friend". What I mean by this is regardless of how well you think you know the person you are dealing (or how much you think you can trust them) with you may be wrong.
Admittedly, I screwed up when I was younger, by not doing the research I should have a couple of times and letting my guard down due to "trusting" the person I was dealing with. As a matter of fact, just last year, I was offered a "deal" by a family friend that works in a management position at a car dealership. My life experience told me to research the deal he was offering me, and by doing so, I saved $1100 by buying at a different dealer, than by going with the friend, for the exact same car.
What's with dealers who charge holdback as an additional fee? I mean, if I understand holdback it is part of the invoice which is returned to the dealer after the sale of the car as a way of assisting with the initial financing. To charge holdback as part of the cost of the car and then again as a fee seems to not make any sense. It seems as silly as saying: OK here's your car, now pay me again for the tires.
Also, what the heck is "wholesale finance reserve". I've never been able to figure that one out but I guess it pops up a lot. Maybe this translates to "Dealer's yacht payment".
It seems as if some dealers just try throwing out these charges and hope that the consumer is too uninformed to question them. Makes it hard to go car shopping without a chip on your shoulder.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
charging holdback however is just plain wrong. just for that, i would walk.
maybe a toyota salesperson can chime in?
-thene
jmonroe
Wonder if I can get GAP and Credit Life on that Pizza in case I get one laced with poison and it gets me before my Debit Card clears?
Personally, I could walk into a DOZEN dealerships in the Chicago area and get a Corolla LE for $15k + tax and title without all the garbage fees.
Seems to me that whenever I have been sent to a friend's friend in the business, that the friend and the salesman are better friends!
Shop around before you buy.
When I was discussing car prices with my son-in-law, he didn't think a fee for transportation was reasonable. I said, "Fine, don't include it in your offer".
Anyway, he and my daughter came back with a nice new car a couple days later, so his car buying method must have worked out. So has their marriage, by the way.
Of course you are right. The only amount you should worry about is the one you write on the check. In a perfect world though, there would be fewer head games played.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The contrapositive of that statement is that if ignoring the fee does not beak the deal, then it was not a legitimate fee.
So if the dealer pulls out a fee that you don't think is reasonable, ignore it and see what happens.
Oh great, now I've got to go look that word up......
Contrapositive:
If q is not true, then p is not true.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
TDA charge is also legitimate - it's part of the cost to the dealer and part of the invoice amount.
The gasoline charge, much like the destination charge is paid by the dealer to Toyota and is incorperated into the invoice amount.
Dealer holdback and wholesale finance reserve are credits, not charges, to the dealership. Your friend may have included these items as things to be deducted from the price he told you if he intends to give you the car.
The bottom line, though, is why get all caught up in the price? On the other side of the desk, I promise you, I could care less what the price is. I really only car about what your monthly payments total. As a customer, I think I would concentrate on that as well, but few people do. Here's a scarry truth for you....while you're worried about a $10 gas charge, I can make $4000 - $5000 while still keeping your price at invoice or lower.
I dont think I'd go for the floormat charge on the ole corrolla though. Only toyota could get away with that one.
Are you serious about this? I have always been under impression to focus on the actual price not monthly payments? Either way on this Corolla I plan to pay cash so I can take advantage of the -750 rebate rather than the APR. I have about 11k saved up and then my dad has offered to lend me the remainder interest free as long as I make consistent payments to him monthly..
Thanks for all the input everyone.. so far it seems as if I need to delay my friend's cousin a bit and shop around... the consensus seems to be I shouldn't be paying all those extra fees.
You've GOT to be kidding me, right? You are joking, right? Granted, there's more to the total deal than the price of what you're buying like trade in, loan terms, etc. But of all that makes up the total package, the price is still #1.
Simple. It's MY money.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
With a trade, you surrender your present vehicle and usually some cash to purchase the new vehicle. The cash is the difference and it could be significant between dealers. I've had a $3,000 swing and read of a few others on this site that have experienced $2,000+ savings between dealers. Note: the new vehicle MUST be the same vehicle with the same incentives to make this a fair comparison.
That means you've narrowed your search to the ONE vehicle that you will purchase. Then either do the fax attack method or visit several dealerships with your requirement for the exact vehicle you're buying and your trade. (Don't expect to really know what the difference is until your trade can be evaluated.) When asked if you're ready to buy today, you could answer "I will purchase this vehicle. The only remaining question is will it be from you or from another dealership. If your willing to give me your best deal up front, then I'm willing to give you a chance at my business." That normally gets their attention that you mean business. Now if they press as if it will be today, give them an honest answer. (If you're prepared to do this and to really get the best deal, you must also be prepared to work hard and close on the deal within a day or two - not a few weeks - remember, you've completed your research and you've decided on the ONE vehicle.)
Now, when when they ask what price are you looking to pay, tell them what vehicle you want and have your trade evaluated while working the numbers on the new vehicle. (You need to save time...) Have them show you the numbers, but concentrate on how much money they want in addition to your trade vehicle. (This is called the difference.) Also, have them disclose any document or other fees they may have. Now ask for a copy of the form, but not before you've memorized the difference figure. Write it down if you must, because they may not give you the form. Ask how long that price is good.
If they tell you 10 minutes or until you leave the lot, you may reply with "if I leave the lot with a price that's not good for 24-hours, I won't be back, but I will be driving that vehicle and another dealership will have my money. It's their call at this point. If they play hard ball, then it becomes your decision to burn the bridge and scratch them from your list of dealers or keep it friendly and tell them that you have other dealerships to shop. If they tell you 24-hours, thank them for their time and for providing their best deal to you, shake hands, and continue your search. (Make sure you emphasize "your best deal".)
I recommend working from the farthest acceptable dealership from your home/work that you will travel to and work your way to the nearest dealership. This method educates you to the true market price for your deal. Now you have that information at your most desirable dealership. Now, it's your decision, but to me the last dealership doesn't have to be the cheapest.
However, they must be within $100 to $200 of the low bids. If the dealership you want turns out to be way out of line, show them your cards and let them make the decision that they either want your business or they don't. If they decide they don't want your business, make the call to one of the low bidders and close the deal. (Note: You may find that a low-bidder will not honor their price. Don't despair, just go to the next acceptable bid.)
The first time I did this, I truly was amazed to find a $3,000 difference! It has worked for me several times as I moved every few years. Now that I've settled, I go to my local (proven) dealership and no longer need to shop around. (However, I did shop around before my purchase last year...just to make sure my dealer was still honest with me...they were.)
I have never understood this.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Plus if it's an order and it's from another dealer we pay transport costs to bring the car in, and to return one to the other dealer.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Good post 'gasman1'.
I do it somewhat like you do but not exactly. This only proves that there is more than one way to skin a cat. The main thing is that you have to do your research and know what you want.
Oh .... and there is never anything wrong with a sanity check just to keep your favorite dealer honest. It's a very bad business practice to just blindly give away your trust repeatedly. There is no sense in being taken advantage of because you've dealt with someone before.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It's a little different, but not much. You have to agree to whatever factory incentives are offered at time of delivery. (They may be higher, lower, or gone on that date compared to the day you place your order.) You also have to allow some lee-way on the miles that you're going to place on your vehicle. (They will probably lower your trade value by estimating depreciation for 2 months in the future and x number of additional miles. --- Example: Your trade is worth $10K today with 20K miles. They may allow $9.6K with 22K miles if current condition is maintained.)
Vehicles depreciate every month and more miles also lower the value. Timing also comes into play. You can't order a vehicle after a certain date.
Try not to buy when everyone else is buying. You know the basic law of supply and demand. One of my best deals was made on New Years Eve and it was a factory order. January, February, and early-March work well for me. However, 4WD/AWD vehicles usually have more value after that first snowfall than they do in early- to mid-summer. (at least in the northern climates - it may not matter in southern regions
As for a dealer trade (the dealer is swapping an in-stock vehicle with another dealer for you vehicle)... It's part of the deal and that transport cost is a real expense, so yes you may pay a little more than taking one off the lot. That's the decision, you must make.
I purchased a new GM vehicle for my daughter last year. She had to have Electric Blue while Mom and I had to have side airbags and the latest safety gear. The dealer did his search and found one that was about 350 miles away. He had to work a trade with that dealership. They didn't want any of his current stock, but would take a Vibe that he had in transit. He asked if we would wait until the Vibe arrived (about 2 weeks) so he could get it there and bring our car back (by trailer). We agreed. Three weeks later he sent his guy with trailer to retrieve our car as the Vibe still hadn't arrived. It came in a week later causing him double the transport expense. (To me, it would've made more sense to have the inbound Vibe dropped there rather than to it's original destination...)
The bottom line comes down to knowing what I want, knowing the true costs and being reasonable about it. If I'm not willing to pay more for the additional costs involved, then I need to re-evaluate what I really want.
It would make sense, but your dealer would probably have lost the holdback on the vehicle if they had done that.
I see your point boomchek. I guess it's a matter of the trust you put in a customer to honor the deal. It would never occur to me to back out on an ordered car or not have the money all lined up beforehand, but that's me. I've read enough stories here to believe people do some stupid things with car buying.
If I just had to have a car in a certain color or style or with options that were typically not on the lot what would make the salesman comfortable? Would a large non-refundable deposit do the trick?
I've also heard salesmen say they might not still be working there a month or two from now and thus have no incentive to book a deal and let the next guy get the commission. True?
Any way around this? Just how long does it take for say, a domestically manufacturered Japanese car to be delivered?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
BTW - I wouldn't be comfortable ordering from a high turn-over place. My current Toyota and GM dealers require no deposit from me. At Toyota, there newest saleperson has probably been there 8 years or so. At GM, it's a different story so I deal with the sales manager. (I really don't like any one of his sales people and I've discussed this with him.)
As for people backing out, yeah, you never know what could happen. Sometimes they even change their mind on the color, and buy from somewhere else. It's more of a hassle to keep their deposit than to return it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
Why not give the car salesman the right price for the car plus any other money you might have plus your childrens education funds and then just be happy with your new car.
your happy and the salesman is really happy...whats wrong with that?
But a sales person we dealt with for initial test drive called and said he'd be willing to locate a car of our specs, and match the Conicelli price (20,682). I told him I'd call back later in the week.
Got a hold of him last night, got him to go down a bit more to $20,433. Talked it over with my partner and we decided to go for it.
All said and done the deal looks like this:
Sale price: $20,433
Tax, 6%: 1225.98
Tags: 163.50
Total: 21,822.48
I've read a few people getting lower, but this guy did a great job (so far), so, I'm satisfied.
Anyway... doing a little more research. According to most web sites, they say you should shoot for buying the car for around 4-8% more than dealer holdback (that would be $19437 x .04= 20,214,48). Going by that formula this is about 5%. So, it seems like a pretty good deal to me and seems like it's in the range of reported deals I've seen on here.
Thanks for all the advice and pep talks. It's just great having a place with experienced people to get advice from.
When I, eventually, buy another car, there were quite a few mistakes I made. But I'm glad I did have the time to look, get the car we REALLY wanted, and used a little patience to not just BUY IT NOW, when the best deal I found was $700 off MSRP.
Anything I should look out for before we sign the papers and drive off? I plan on a thorough look over and test drive before we do any paperwork, and a thorough review of the paperwork, of course.
Think it's too much to ask to get the sales person to give me $500 for my '92 Taurus? I mentioned using it for a trade in back in January, he didn't seem interested. Can't blame him. Those things are probably even a tough sale to the wholesalers.
your happy and the salesman is really happy...whats wrong with that?
That is without a doubt the smartest post I have ever seen. You all should heed his words of wisdom
A 92 with Taurus with cold air, runs out good, and looks half way decent will bring $1000 to $1200 all day long. Note lots will kill for them.
Let some kid haggle you down to $700-800 or so and pocket a hundred or two more than the dealer would have given you. And you just helped out some starving student in the process. (Who doesn't have to pay $2000 for the same car from the dealership)
If the dealer would have gone $1k, i'd be VERY happy. Just looking at the classifieds for used Tauruses, sold privately, there isn't much of a market and they go for very little in this area. The car did what it needed to do, for me anyway, needed quite a few repairs, but I was able to find good used parts (for nothing) and only needed to buy a new water pump for it.
$7-800 would be very good. I'd settle for $500, less if it sits in my driveway for more than 6 months.
It's great having a car that's fun to drive. It's been a long time since I've really wanted to just get in a car and drive, just for the sake of driving.
I'm loving it... Just have to keep an eye on my wife. She's normally a slow poke, but she's driving much faster in this car.
Anyway, thanks again for the help.
Thanks for getting back to us and letting us know how it went.
You're one of a very few who has come here looking for help, has gotten it and has come back to let us know how it went.
Your recent purchase could easily help others who come here looking for help, so stick around. You should be able to lend some advice to others. That's the way we do it here.
Thanks again and good luck with your new ride.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If you want to get rid of the car quickly, get the car cleaned up - exterior wash and a good vacuum and clean the windows. Get a big "FOR SALE" sign. Post that you want $1000 or best offer Print out all the specifics of the vehicle and tape it to your window. Then park the car near locations that attract a lot of cash buyers. My best locations are near laundromats and temp agency (Labor Ready works well).
If the car looks halfway decent and runs well, you should have NO problem moving it in a day or two. Accept CASH ONLY, no checks, no IOUs, no payments over three months or so.
You'll find that cash buyers are a different breed than most and are looking past the appearance of the vehicles. They are more concerned that you are not pawning off a car in its death bed.
If I don't have any luck selling it within the family, you have some good advice. I'll definately use your ideas if I do put this car out on the market. And I definately won't take anything other than full cash payment. I don't know why any one would do other wise, but, I've heard stories.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Question. I backed out of all the dealer extras, including gap insurance.
Should I consider gap insurance through my own auto insurer? We put down 25% of total cost. And through our insurer, they quoted me $80 extra per year. The dealer wanted $495. So, over 5 years, our insurance company would save $100 (not including interest). And I don't think it would be necessary for the entire 5 years of the loan, anyway (maybe 3, or 4... we are going to work on paying extra to the loan). But it seems like it would be good to have if the car were involved in a serious accident in the 1st 2 years.
The finance manager seemed perturbed that I rejected everything. I did reject, but I am considering the vin etching service. That didn't seem unreasonable for $100 and it offers a $5k insurance policy in addition to the insurance payout if the car is stolen. I just don't like to make rash decisions and put an extra $100 into a loan if I don't need to. Seems like I'd be better off just paying that in cash.
Any opinions?