Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

bowke28 · December 2003

"how both will do in the crash tests..."

well, the f150 doesnt offer any type of side airbags, so the side tests should be skewed heavily in the titan's favor.

triat · December 2003

Due to the F150 bumper results, I checked the F150 discussion for a little internet entertainment.

Nada,nothing. I don't think they've heard the results! I bet that discussion will be busy soon!

keanec · December 2003

Interiors...
You made a good assumption based on what you saw; but...Look at the interior of the Murano ( I did just today), it is the same style as the titan, and it was out way before the F150. Sorry, but even though some of the facts point towards the Japanese copying the F150; more facts say the 150 styled itself after Nissan. (IMHO). Try to find a Ford, GM or Chrylser that has similar styles to the F150; it might be hard.

Too bad Ford didn't copy the bumpers and the side air bags!

nvbanker · December 2003

Since I haven't driven a Titan yet, I must reserve judgement on "who's best" IMO. But having sat in them both at the car show.....the Ford wins from the cabin side, IMO. YMMV.

ANT14 · December 2003

The interior of the F-150 was designed by J.Mays, Ford hired him away from VW. Notice the new Ford interiors have the VW/Audi interior appeal and quality. In fact, Europe's Mondeo's interior closely mimicks that of Passat (which he had deisgned previously). So the closest example would have to be that the F-150 interior is very Euro like. Take a look at the new Freestar/Monterey and it's a bit more evident.

The new retouched Focus for 2005, will have a similar interior styling. And the new for 2005 Ford Five-Hundred/Montego will look very classy European flair to it as well. Freestyle will incorporate similar display, layout, console, but will have some touches that will make it look SUV like in the interior. (Grab handles and such).

So far for next years vehicles, only the Mustang will have it's own unique styling to recall the flavor of years past and shy away from the upscale Euro flavors of these vehicles interiors, but it'll definately have higher grade interior materials that are a hallmark of designer J.Mays.

nvbanker · December 2003

Didn't J Mays design the 83 Thunderbird? Or am I confused?

keanec · December 2003

Fine and dandy that this person did all the design; but look at the Murano! Maybe Ford's is better, but maybe they took a page from the Japanese book and "stole" something and made it better. I have no idea about this person who design those wonderful VWs, I just know the F150 has a distinct design style similar to the Titan. The Titan had a distinct design style similar to the Murano. The Murano was out before BOTH the trucks which means they were probably copied ( or styled after!). IMHO, I have never seen a VW in ANY other vehicle; (that doesn't meanit isn't there!)

nvbanker · December 2003

It's just a coincidence that they resemble each other. But the Ford has nice materials, wood, satin aluminum, where the Titan has black plastic. And I like that

landru2 · December 2003

You sure are trying hard to convince yourself that made the right choice in ordering your Titan. I hope it lives up to your expectations.

ANT14 · December 2003

"Fine and dandy that this person did all the design; but look at the Murano!"

I fail to see any resemblance whatsoever between the Murano and F-150, or the Titan to the F-150 in that sense. The Titan has sharper edges, and very hard plastic interior.

Although Toyota did state once publically that they were "inspired" by the F-150, when designing their Tundra interior...This was for the previous generation F-150. I do see the same smoothness, lines, location of items, etc. between the Tundra and previous F-150.

"but maybe they took a page from the Japanese book and "stole" something and made it better."

When a manufacturer wants to steal design elements/styling from another manufacturer, seldomly it's form an asian manufacturer since the majority of people consider them bland and boring when it comes to styling. It's not till recently that Nissan has awakened styling wise, thanks to Renault.

"Didn't J Mays design the 83 Thunderbird?"
NVBANKER, I haven't heard that, but as I know it, his career started around 1980, so could be. Here's more info on him...

http://www.designmuseum.org/designerex/j-mays.htm

admasters · December 2003

admasters · December 2003

What I am really more concerned about is the crash tests. Whether it is a high speed crash that will protect my family or a low speed crash that will keep my insurance rates down. I think this is a much more important issue to discuss rather than who's interior looks the best because that is clearly subjective and everyone has varying opinions on that one.

Does anyone know when the Titan crash tests will be out?

I also wouldn't begin throwing off on the Ford bumpers until we know how the Titan does.

IMHO - I am very interested in the Titan and will most likely get one soon, but the crash test results will still weigh heavily in my decision.

Oh, and just to contradict myself and beat a dead horse. I actually think the new F150's interior looks better than the Titan, but I will come more buying a Titan because of Nissan's reputation and the other new features it has - not to mention every red neck on the road most likely will not be driving one...LOL!

ANT14 · December 2003

All PickUp trucks will perform badly on these tests, and as stated by IIHS, directly from their site....

"One reason pickups and minivans generally perform poorly in the Institute's bumper tests is that they aren't subject to any requirements to prevent damage in low-speed impacts. Automobile bumpers have to meet federal standards in 2.5 mph impacts, so cars typically do better in low-speed crash tests."

And from the trucks tested years past, they all did bas as well. And examining the bumper system of the Titan, it won't do that well either and I predict costlier damage on the "front to pole" test.

This is a situation where people are expecting carlike characteristics to what is essentially a truck.

keanec · December 2003

You are probably right; but since more and more people are driving the Truck as a main vehicle then maybe they should start treating it a little more like a car when it comes to these tests. Who knows what the Titan will do, but it will be nice to find out. From a safety perspective, Nissan has done a better job on the Titan than Ford has on the F150 - Side & curtian airbags and VDC. Some people will say this is nothing, but if they, or their love ones, end up in a situation where these safety features save them from serious injury or death they will change their tune.

rsholland · December 2003

performed worse that last year's model in bumper crash tests, so I heard on TV last night.

Bob

bowke28 · December 2003

dont forget, the armada was out long before the titan, and about the same time as the f150. i dont see how either copied either, quite frankly.

ANT14 · December 2003

"- Side & curtian airbags and VDC. Some people will say this is nothing, but if they, or their love ones, end up in a situation where these safety features save them from serious injury or death they will change their tune. "

I'm sure some people will love it, but in the end it depends how much of a priority it is for them. The majority of buyer's choose a vehicle for performance, handling, creature comforts, etc.

Most (keyword here) buyer's looking at a truck will not have safety in their priority, mainly because it's a TRUCK. The majority of vehicles that will hit a truck, will lose this is their belief. And considering trucks are body on frame, side impacts do not decipate the structure as severely as if it were a unibody.

I believe that the buyer's of a Kia, Hyundai, Corvette, Miata, Mini, Boxter, Z4, NEED to worry about side impacts, but I'm not buying that excuse from a buyer interested in a pick-up when their priorities will be other issues.

The majority of pick-up buyer's use it as a personal vehicle, work vehicle, etc. It's not till recently that more pick up trucks are being used to transport more than just one or 2 people.

Then if someone states the excuse of "I'm buying it for the safety of my family", belongs on a Volvo commercial (excuse me as I roll my eyes). If someone really wants safety, just don't drive. If they must, a TRUCK shouldn't be it, because of their roll-over propensity. A Minivan would be a safer bet, or a body on frame sedan (Only one really) Crown Vic...now there's one vehicle you can't flip over.

Trucks (no matter the manufacturer) have key areas of weaknesses, and most consumer's aren't educated enough to even know what they are. So they shop for the "visible" toys. They should be asking how much static strength can the A and C pillar of the vehicle handle, and what megahertz of strength the platform is. (just how FWD cars are easy to flip over when you hit their rear corner while in motion).

With this growing trend of making ALL vehicles, more passenger friendly, we are seeing a concentration of making them carlike. But no matter how comfortable someone will make a body on frame vehicle (even SUV's) they will still remain true to their heritage and deal with the common issues prevalent to them.

And no matter how many toys are implemented in them, consumer's perceive as mass being much safer, when in reality, it's the idiot behind the steering wheel which is in charge of preventing the accident.

Just watch, in a few years you'll see "purse holders" in trucks

If the purse belonged to a blond, would it be considered an Air-Bag?

bowke28 · December 2003

as many are aware (not sure if you are), the reason trucks go to a king/crew cab configuration is that people want to buy 1 vehicle to do everything they need. this includes toting the family. its more economical to do this, since they dont have to buy a sedan or minivan now.

with that in mind, what would your opinion be of a man who buys a truck for the family, and IGNORES the safety?

personally, i would think less of him.

landru2 · December 2003

If you think less of that man how can you, in clear conscience, try to sell any product that isn't the safest on the market? I've yet to hear that claim for every Nissan product. In other words, do you point out to your customers that a competitor's product with a better safety rating would be a better choice?

nvbanker · December 2003

I find it facinating that some of you are so air bag oriented, from the standpoint that I could find a stadium full of people out there who think air bags will kill them, and demand a switch to turn them off, or try to get the dealers to disconnect them. Personally, I like them and believe they are going to be better for me and my occupants than not having them, but I don't buy a car for safety. As ANT says, driving is chancy, and one accident that an airbag could save me from, the airbag could kill me in another. It's a crap shoot, and other than obvious safety hazards, I don't worry too much about it. I wear my belts religiously, and drive carefully. I've never flipped an SUV, and certainly not a Crown Vic! YMMV.

triat · December 2003

I suspect part of the reason trucks fail bumper tests is to be more car friendly? When 5K pound trucks had "good" bumpers trucks would more readily crush smaller vehicles. I know truck manufacturers the last few years are attempting to make trucks more car friendly. Thus truck bumpers now a little more absorbent like cars?

ANT14 · December 2003

I just keep reading this obsession about safety, when we are talking about a truck, not as if it's a Kia. Is this to say that NO ONE here has EVER bought a vehicle, because it's missing a safety item that a competitor has?

As I've mentioned previously, when I bought a Lincoln LS8 in 2000, competitors had side airbags, and it wasn't enough to change my mind. I was more concerned about numerous other items on a vehicle, than it having missing airbags. Now I bought the same '04 LS and it comes with it but wasn't something I even checked for it.

Will I ever use it? Maybe not. Am I less of a human being for having passenger's in ALL my vehicles PRIOR to side airbags being invented?

And if we want techonology overkill, Ford has just announced it'll be phasing in Roll Stability Control (RSC), for those who are worried about their vehicles rolling over. So (depending on the segment and vehicles it's going in) it'll be ONE more item of safety, that other's do not yet have (same system as the Volvo Xc90). For those who wish to be at the forefront of safety techonology to protect ourselves, our families, and earn an extra brownie point in heaven for doing so. (Hallmark moment).

kg11 · December 2003

Trait: Right on the money. Trucks have been made "car friendly" and as such they're easier to bend.

Banker& Landru: People who stress the saftey features of a vehicle excessively are preying on peoples' fear. I've never bought a vehicle with the intention of wrecking it. Yes, I'm sure there's always a chance,but I never worry about it. Ever.

THE safest vehicle on the road matters only to people with unreasonable fear of every day activity. ALL vehicles are reasonably safy BY LAW and the difference is only significant if you spend a lot of time thinking about the worst thing that could happen rather than how you will be using it.

landru2 · December 2003

referred to here only a test of repair costs? I don't think safety is the issue of these tests. Aren't they done at 5 MPH?

keanec · December 2003

Here is an article about the first Titan sold. An F150 owner traded in a 2003. hehe, ironic, eh? But he is the target Nissan market because he was always a Nissan small truck owner until he traded up to the domestics; so this isn't a shot a Ford, although he does mention he missed the Nissan reliability. I take that as a shot at the domestics!

http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2003/12/12/174368.html

dustyk · December 2003

This is an unfortunate insight into a moralistic-based thinking. It's also unfortunate that this becomes just one more example of how the subject of motor vehicles is filled with egotistical and self-righteous opinions, and the decisions of others with respect to hardware becomes either "right" or "wrong."

Dusty

bowke28 · December 2003

if the guy had the means for the equipment, and did not get it, i would be disappointed in him.

landru...

i always use the phrase "if safety is REALLY important to you" to some people its not...i can accept that. would i deny their money if they really didnt care about safety? no. they are going to buy a vahicle no matter what i say. it might as well be from me. if i can convince them to equip a vehicle with the latest safety equipment, then thats gravy.

a customer might be a horse's patoot, but i wont send him away because i dont like him.

jcmdie · December 2003

I've never bought a vehicle because it had more safety features than another. Nor have I bought a vehicle that I felt was unsafe. I do believe that the push for optional safety items are to prey on the fear of an insecure person.

I also will not buy a popular feature "because it will add resale value". If it isn't an item that I, the buyer wants, I certainly won't buy it for whoever buys my car next.

nvbanker · December 2003

About the only cars I worried about being safe enough, were my Honda Civic, only because it is the smallest thing on the road, (or seems like it is) and the Mini Cooper, for the same reason.

ANT14 · December 2003

"referred to here only a test of repair costs? I don't think safety is the issue of these tests. Aren't they done at 5 MPH? "

Trucks, SUV's and Minivans do not adhere to passenger vehicles government mandate of withstanding 5MPH impacts, instead they must adhere to 2.5 MPH which is what the government requires from them.

thenebean9 · December 2003

i too am a nissan salesperson, and a fan of nissans in general. I have driven the titan, the tundra, the ram 1500 hemi, and the f-150 back to back, and in my opinion the titan is the best truck. the seats are roomy and comfortable in the back, which cant be said for any of the other trucks...the ride is firm, but comfortable. there is little to no brake dive, unlike the f-150 which nearly buried its nose into the pavement when slamming on the brakes. and we were tossed around quite a bit in the f-150 going over railroad tracks, manhole covers, and potholes. not so much in the titan. the titan (and seemingly every other nissan vehicle) has the spirit of the Z inside...and i cant say that its a bad thing! now i have already stated i have a bias for nissan, and everyone here has a bias for what they own. but here's one last thing i want to touch on...this truck is built in the US, by americans, for americans...and if you were to go to the great state of mississippi, who just got their first automotive factory built there by nissan, i'd say there's a lot of pride riding on that truck, american pride!

that said, to each their own...you want an f-150 and are happy with one, good for you! nissan isnt for everyone, otherwise something would seriously be wrong...so enjoy what you've got!

happy motoring

-thene

tedshinners · December 2003

...the ride is firm, but comfortable

How does the ride compare to the toyota DC? I have rulled out the ford based on the nearly vertical back seat. It is down to the toyota and nissan. I like a soft ride (2000 toyota tundra currently) as this is going to be my daily commuter on northern bumpy roads.
Thanks,
theo

softstor · December 2003

I have a bumper pull horse trailer. The trailer weight fully loaded should not weight more than 6500 lbs. Both the F-150 (Super Crew) & Titan (Crew Cab) trucks have a tow rating greater than 9000 lbs. Which of these two trucks would you recommend for my towing requirements? Is a 3/4 ton truck necessary?

thenebean9 · December 2003

the toyota's is softer, at least in the tundra i test drove (it wasnt the double cab) however the back seats on the king cab version of the tundra were not so comfortable. not sure how they are in the double cab. i'd test drive the titan and see what you think...you may like the ride, or you may not...but my "comfortable ride" may not be your "comfortable ride".

-thene

bowke28 · December 2003

the problem with the tundra double cab is that they are using the same engine as the extended cab. it was a bit underpowered in the extended cab. it'll be horrible in the big one.

bowke28 · December 2003

this is not the tundra board...if you dont like the titan, you can find something about the f150 that you like better! ;-)

triat · December 2003

or is predominately Tundra conversations under "Titan", "Titan vs. F150", and of course "Tundra vs. Titan" threads??

Tundra folks, check out my rendition of Titan vs. Tundra posting!

bowke28 · December 2003

i think tundra folks havent been able to find the tundra board...just like toyota cant find a full size truck. ;-)

saddaddy · December 2003

I would quit dogging the Tundra. When Toyota comes out with a full size truck that they actually WANT to market as such (thats right, the Tundra didn't magically shrink in between the design and build stages) it will statistically blow everything away just as you say the Titan does now. The Titan is the newest thing out there, if it didn't have the best numbers, there would be a big problem. Its that way with every truck -- its got to be. Who wants a newly redesigned vehicle that doesn't measure up to as stiff competition as there exists in the full size truck world?

If you think the Tundra was built to acutally take business away from the Big 3's "work-truck/gotta-have-the-biggest-possible" clients, you are sorely mistaken. Now this is coming from someone would buy the Titan over the Tundra any day. Its just that Im kinda like you, I cant stand misinformed people when it comes to such a black and white issue.

Doesn't the Titan come with a Nav system? They need to rig someway to hook up to a handheld GPS for waypoint/route transfer -- now that would be SWEET!

nvbanker · December 2003

Saddaddy is right, the Tundra wasn't a mistake, it was intentional! Toyota built for the US, the truck we are supposed to need and want! It's our fault we think it's not sufficient, because we're stupid, fat, lazy Americans and we don't know what we need. That's why they made the Tundra like it is. All of our trucks should be adjusted to conform.

ANT14 · December 2003

I would like to Congratulate Ford's F-150 which was just awarded Truck of The Year, as well as Cadillac's XLR for Car of the Year.

Quote: "Best truck honors go to the redesigned 2004 Ford F-150 pickup, which continues to stand as the benchmark in the full-size pickup market and raises the bar even higher in terms of interior amenities and quality. "

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0312/17/a01-11508.htm

keanec · December 2003

"The 2004 Detroit News Car and Truck of the Year are a celebration of Detroit iron from storied brands marking centennial years."

then they go on to say "If you think the nod to Cadillac and Ford is merely local boosterism, consider this: Of our 10 runners-up, five were Japanese products and three came from Europe.

and finally "In the face of stiff competition, our hats are off to the hometown teams"

Nice try ANT - "hometown teams that is unbiased??

A celebration of Detroit Iron?? Yup, the F-150 deserves congrats! ya right!

I would congrat if the F-150 wins this; which is announced in Jan.

"North American Car and Truck of the Year finalists announced

A group of American and Canadian automotive journalists has selected the Cadillac XLR, Mazda RX-8 and Toyota Prius as the finalists for the North American Car of the Year, while the Cadillac SRX, the Ford F-150 and Nissan Titan are finalists for the North American Truck of the Year. "

It will be a lot less biased!

hairong · December 2003

'04 F-150.

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_04_toy_announce/

So far F-150: 2; Titan 0.

Of course, MT is biased, too. They gave awards to a Toyota, a VW, now a Ford, obviously they are just biased against Nissan. Oops, they gave G35 COTY last year. Maybe, just maybe, Titan wasn't better than F150.

FYI, last year, NAIAS Car/Truck of the Year went to a pair of imports, Mini Cooper and XC-90. Biased or not, better product wins. If you can win against odds, all the more impressive.

nvbanker · December 2003

ANT is too much of a gentleman to respond to your anti-north american biased comments. He may bash a rental car or two into the curb from time to time, but he'll never bash on the Town Hall. I, OTOH, am not such a gentleman, and I will venture to say that you don't know what you're talking about yet. In a year, we'll know who's right. But right now, we just don't know if either of these trucks are great, lousy, or mediocre. So, let's just wait and see.

ANT14 · December 2003

I was just about to post the Motortrend Truck of the Year award news release and Hairong just beat me to it. But Congratulations to the F-150 Team once again.

keanec · December 2003

I'll answer these one at a time...
F150 2 Titan 1 (not zero) remember 4x4 Mag?

I didn't say all magazines are biased and I resent your inference. I do respect motor-trend. And if you read my post I said I would say congrats to the F150 where it is imho warranted - so congrats for the MT award.

read the article ANT posted about and you will get why I discounted it. I only posted portions but since it is a Detroit publication that starts off by saying they are a celebration of Detroit Iron, I could hardly call them impartial.

Also, I think the Award you talked about that was won by The Volvo last year is the same one I refered to in my post when I said I would like to see the results from that.

keanec · December 2003

" you don't know what you're talking about yet"

And you do?

my comments are my opinions which you can take or leave or put them where the sun.....:-).

"anti-north american biased comments..."

The Titan is designed, manufactured, assembled, etc.. with NA parts in NA. So all my comments about it are pro N american. That said, I guess JD Powers and others like them are also biased against NA too.

" But right now, we just don't know if either of these trucks are great, lousy, or mediocre. So, let's just wait and see."

Agreed 110%, but if I am going to shell out $50,000, I would rather take my chances on a company that didn't produce the infamous Windstar, Escape and other notorious terrible product launches and whose own CEO (the grandson of the founder) comes out and says they have many quality issues that they are working on. Well, once they have solved them then I will be willing take a chance with my money. So, when I am in the market 3-4 years down the road, I will look at the 150 again.

I haven't yet attacked anybody personally (except maybe correcting some facts), but feel free if you have the need to do that.

My final comment is that "on paper" and from my intial first impressions of both vehicles, I like the Titan better. Others, like Ant, like the Ford better and he plainly shows that as I plainly show my preference.

ANT14 · December 2003

"read the article ANT posted about and you will get why I discounted it. I only posted portions but since it is a Detroit publication that starts off by saying they are a celebration of Detroit Iron, I could hardly call them impartial."

Anyone in the automotive industry will understand that Detroit News Automotive, is pretty much like the Wall Street Journal of the Automotive industry and are highly regarded. They are not NA biased and have awarded awards to many foreign brands in the past. And if anyone has ever read reports off the journalists from Detroit News, they will see that they are rather harsh on domestic products overall.

Let alone, I could name some journalists that have posted articles (that NEED to retire) because they are still thinking back on old-detroit and continue to bring up issues from years past like the Pinto and simply do not understand that a product changes every few years, and their experience from WAY back when, will not be the same as now.

But this thinking doesn't surprise me though. On another board I posted the same information and receive the... "Oh but they are biased because it's Detroit based publisher". Then the same vehicle wins MotorTrends Truck of the year, then they posted.... "Well they are biased because Motortrend operates from NA".

And will ALL know that at some point they'll continue on to... "well, they are biased because it's a Domestic vehicle built in the US, and we live here and so do they"...Then if the vehicle wins "Alaskan Truck of the year" Then it'll be "well they are biased, because they are part of the U.S.". Then if the vehicle wins some other awards, the excuse will be "Well, they are biased because we live in the Planet Earth, and the vehicle is built there"....

This isn't to say the Titan doesn't deserve any awards. If anything I'm expecting it to probably win some "Of the Year" awards over the F-150 mainly because it's the first time that an asian manufacturer has done a great effort and built from the ground up something that's actually decent competition. Unlike Toyota's common 7/8th effort with the previous Sienna, and current Tundra. Or Honda's previous Oddysey.

But as stated by some of these publishings, they elected the F-150 just because it had a bit more of what they were looking for, over the Titan.

hairong · December 2003

Just to clarify things, the award in ANT's link (on Detroit News web site) is the NAIAS award, of which Volvo won last year, and F150 won this year. The news report maybe from a homer, but the award isn't.

Now, F150 has won two TOTY awards from the sources you respect, what do you have to say?

lennx · December 2003

I am not too worried about the bumpers. On my 4x4 F-150, my bumper will probably go over most car bumpers. Plastic grilles crush much easier than the insurance industries test bumper.

Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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