Owe more than it's worth... I'm upside down and I can't get up!

mirth · March 2005

scouty - First, hop over to the Real World Trade-in Values to ask Terry to give you an accurate trade-in value on your Expedition.

Do you have the money to pay off the loan (after the trade-in)? If so, I would do it. Rolling it into the next car is not a good idea

Also, since you have to spend so much money just to pay off the current truck, why not down-size on the next and get an Explorer or even an Escape? Still sitting up high, still got 4WD, still have big truck safety...

boomer1b · March 2005

TRUE.............Some sales jobs..Esp real estate require a X year car or newer to tote clients around !

stickguy · March 2005

do they calculate age in Terry years? If so, you will be getting a new car every 6 months.

cadillacmike · March 2005

"TRUE.............Some sales jobs..Esp real estate require a X year car or newer to tote clients around ! "

Maybe so, but my 10 year old Fleetwood looks better than most 1 year old vehicles on the road.

And most people can't tell what year it is either!

boomer1b · March 2005

I seem to remember taxicabs in Palm Bch. Cty. can only be 5 model years old also by law also.

stickguy · March 2005

I think that Phila. has an inverse law. They have to be more than 5 years old (maybe even 10)!

driftracer · March 2005

fenders flopping and solid paint are driver-optional.

lemko · March 2005

Shoot, I believe taxis in Philadelphia are, on an average, 7 or more years old. The rule in NYC is that taxis can't be more than 7 years-old so they sell them to cab companies in Philly!

scoutyjones · March 2005

I will ask Terry for an accurate TIV but I need a family sized vehicle for family considerations as well as for the terrain I have to cover...6 seats a must

Love the Expedition but the company has age requirements (vehicular!:))

mirth · March 2005

Doesn't an Explorer seat 6?

stickguy · March 2005

A slightly used MPV seats 6, and can be had pretty cheap.

explorerx4 · March 2005

up to seven(2-3-2)

cwpost · March 2005

If he wants another Expedition, why are you all trying to talk him into Explorer's, or MPV's. He says gas and a note isn't a problem so he should get what he wants.

Good Luck.

anonymousposts · March 2005

My point is that we are all in the bad habit of getting more vehicle than we need at the expense of our natural resources and our environment.

Kirstie_H · March 2005

This conversation is extremely off-topic and inappropriate for the discussion. Take it elsewhere.

anthony06 · March 2005

I bought a used 2001 Mazda Tribute in 2003. At the time, I was able to afford the $435.00 monthly payments. Over the last year, I have struggled badly to keep the payments current. At this time, I am over 60 days past due. Today, I was threatened by the lien holder to either make a full payment or lose the vehicle. The company will not refinance for me.
I have tried to look into getting into something more affordable, but because I still owe about $12K, I don't know if it is worth even trying to do that.
Does anyone have any advice on options I may have? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!! I'm desperate!!!

driftracer · March 2005

and with a current late status, it may be tough to do anything. The saving grace is that most credit bureaus are 60-90 days behind, so your 60 days late may not show.

Post a good description of your Tribute in Real World Trade Values - follow the chart at the bottom of the page. Maybe we can help you figure out where you are and what your options are.

bmw31 · March 2005

I am currently driving a 2002 Ford Explorer. I purchased the E in Dec 2003 with 23,000 on it. In 2004, I drove over 45,000 miles. For tax purposes, I am not reimbursed anything by my employer. I take the mileage deduction.With 70K miles, I had a rear hub assy go bad, and do almost $1000 damage which only $250 was covered by the crappy extended warranty I purchased (Guardian - never again) I love my Explorer, and this is my 4th Ford I have owned. I drove my 1990 TBird to over 168,000, my wifes 93 Taurus to over 144,000 both with no major failures. Now after 70,000, I have a repair bill that's just plain stupid. What concerns me the most is the Ford Dealer mechanic said he was surpised that a rear went, "usually both front hub assy's are gone before 70K!" I have lost almost all confidence in this vehicle.
Which brings me to my next point, with 74K as of today, should I dump it and get something else? The warranty is transferrable to another owner.
If I make the change, here are my reasons - a vehicle with better gas mileage would be nice - I'm getting 18-19 now, but 26-30 would be even better with gas prices today. I'm also thinking that I need to move away from American cars to get better long-term useage. I've been looking at Volvo S60's, VW Passats, Saab 9-3's. I found a 2002 Volvo s60 2.4T with 40K for 16,9 (Volvo-certified 100K warranty) My price range is about $20,000. I currently owe $12,000 on the Explorer.
I really need a vehicle that has long-term durability since I will average 40K miles per year.

I appreciate anyone's opinion.

kyfdx · March 2005

No offense, but every car you listed as a potential replacement is known to be fairly troublesome and expensive to repair and maintain.. I know you've had great luck with Fords, but ever think of a Toyota or Honda?

How about a nice '02 Toyota Avalon or Acura TL? Both of those would be in the $20K range.. and would also get mid-20 MPG on the highway...

I'm not sure if you should trade, or keep what you have.. But, I wouldn't trade for any of those cars... Not at 45K/year mileage.

regards,
kyfdx

jlawrence01 · April 2005

Fix the car and get over it.

I have a Saab 9-3 in my fleet with 24k miles and it has been in the dealership 10 times with various electrical issues. The latest is that the sunroof keeps opening without being activated.

Had transmission issues ongoing with the Volvo S80 that it replaced.

I agree with the prior posy. Youa re asking for more problems with those models.

isellhondas · April 2005

Right into the fire!

The cars you listed are nothing but trouble!

You've had a semi-major repair. Not the end of the world. You were very lucky with the other Fords you owned.

manamal · April 2005

If you want a car for that type of milage, go for an accord or camry. If more upscale, pick up an acura. Those are the most likely to give you trouble free miles.

jlawrence01 · April 2005

If the OP is not reimbursed anything for driving 40k miles per year, it is time to find a new job.

40K miles a year basically converts a car to worthless in 3-4 years, even an Accord or a Camry.

bmw31 · April 2005

Well after driving a company provided vehicle for the last 5 years at the old job, which they chose the make/model/color, paid the gas and insurance, I paid a monthly fee of $120 to use the vehicle for myself, not a bad deal.
New job pays me about 25K more per year - yes I stop complaining about the cost but I dont want to spend all that extra money on a car.
As far as leaving the job for that reason, I could go back and make 25K less, drive a crappy
fleet vehicle, and loose the tax benefits. If they were to provide me with a vehicle, I'd still be paying for it with less pay.

Back onto the subject.

Maybe I should have rephrased my question. What vehicle will give the me the best long term reliability. Everyone seems to love their Accords, and I have to admit I liked what I saw today. Is it realistic to expect 200,000 miles from a Accord? Or how about another. Forget the Toyotas - I think their ugly. Is the Acura as good as the Accord?

Secondly,

I get about 18-19 mpg with the Explorer and the insurance is more. What is a realistic mpg for the Accord when 85% of my driving is on the highway? It's rated at 34, that's almost double what I get now. If I could cut my gas bill by 40% and insurance, wouldn't that be a good thing?

mac24 · April 2005

"Maybe I should have rephrased my question. What vehicle will give the me the best long term reliability."

Maybe you should rephrase it again. " What vehicle is most likely to give me the best long term reliability?" You might get the rare reliable Volvo or the rare unreliable Honda. Unless you're buying a fleet you can only improve your odds, rather than get a virtual guarantee!

Although it's not a welcome event, a major repair on any vehicle after 100k should hardly be a surprise.

isellhondas · April 2005

I see 200,000 mile Accords all of the time. Just do the scheduled maintenance.

ghulet · April 2005

If you absolutely want to spend $20k, I'd get an Accord LX or maybe a used ('03-04) EX four-cylinder. 160hp (about the same as most V6s of five years ago), 30+ mpg on the highway, great resale value, hard to go wrong.

kyfdx · April 2005

Assuming the prices paid board is accurate.. (a big assumption, I know), you might even squeeze a new EX 4-cylinder in under $20K. They report LXs going for $18,400.

That would be my choice also, in a new car for $20K.

firesign · April 2005

I need some advice, I bought a Mistubishi Eclipse in september 2003, brand new, MSRP $27,000, my payments have been 500 dls/mo. and I've had it now for a year and 7 months, I have low mileage( 10,000) and it is in excellent conditions. However, I am tired of paying so much a month and would love to trade it in for a used VW Cabrio, will a dealership pay off what I owe which is still 27,000 ( b/c the first yr I was just paying interests- have extremely HIGH APR-) or will they roll over the amount owed? Am I better off keeping the car? The blue book value is now only $14,000!!!!!! Any suggestions?

sebring95 · April 2005

I don't think you're going to get out of that deal without ponying up some serious cash. You've got a deficit of about $13,000 and that would be nearly impossible to roll onto the loan of a used Cabrio. And even if you did, your payment would be the same, maybe higher depending on the circumstances. Enjoy your eclipse, you don't have any other choice so make the best of it.

lhess · April 2005

you're probably stuck with the car for a while. Have you considered trying to refinance and get a lower interest rate? Even if you can't lower your payment much, if you can get more of that payment going toward the principal, it will pay down much faster. I bought a 2001 eclipse spyder, used, because of the very situation you're in. If I can't get the purchase price of a new car near or below DEALER INVOICE (not MSRP), I don't buy. I start shopping for used. I loved my eclipse. Just enjoy it for a few more years and stay away from the car lots and the temptation to get yourself in a worse financial situation with a car payoff.

isellhondas · April 2005

Dealer invoice has nothing to do with this. If you buy a fast depreciating car like anything Mitsubishi builds and you put little or nothing down, you will be DEEPLY buried for a long time. Cars that don't sell well new aren't worth much used.

If you happen to like one of these cars, that's another story. Just plan to keep it for a long time. If you are a person who gets tired of a car quickly then you need to think carefully before buying something. If you roll negative equity into your latest "must have", you have dug yourself a DEEP hole!

lhess · April 2005

I was just trying to give a little friendly advice. Something bad has obviously happened here. They paid STICKER for the car, they've paid on it for 19 months and they still owe the sticker price for the car? The very last thing they need to do is trade and add another big pay-off (which I suspect has already happened once) to the next one.

dtownfb · April 2005

You are better off holding onto the vehicle. The big question is how many more payments do you have?

driftracer · April 2005

"Something bad has obviously happened here"

Why is that? People pay want they want to pay - you only want to pay invoice, and that's cool, but on a high-demand vehicle, I'll simply tell you "no". People pay what they pay, there's no need for the doom and gloom and automatic assumption that something "bad" (a criminal act?) has occured...

Even if they got the car for invoice and a $5,000 rebate, with high interest, no down payment, and long-term financing, they'd still be $7-8k upside down...

bobst · April 2005

If you have been paying $500 a month, then you are paying $6000 a year. Since your loan is for $27000, that means you have a 22% interest rate.

The first thing is to refinance your loan at a lower interest rate.

You don't like paying $500 a month? Too bad. You owe someone $27000, and to pay that loan off in a reasonable amount of time you will probably have to pay more than $500 a month.

It would also help to sell the Mitsu and buy a cheap, reliable car like a Toyota Echo - base model, no options - and keep it for 10 years. I'm sure that is exactly the kind of advice a young guy like you wanted to hear, right?

driftracer · April 2005

having $13-14k in hand to pay off the loan, though....

firesign · April 2005

I guess I'm stuck w/ it! Don't get me wrong I LOVE my car I just don't love paying so much a month but ......should'a , would'a, could'a!!! Lesson learned. Thanks

jchan2 · April 2005

next time employ my strategy- always pay off your old car before shopping for a new one, and be sure to get pre-approved from a bank or credit union before buying. Also, if you're the type that trades cars often (1-2 years, or less than 50,000 miles) then be sure to pick a car that has a very high resale value. (think Lexus, a Camry, Accord, etc) But if you're like me though, and toss 100K miles on a car in 6 years or less, resale isn't that big of a deal. Plus I pay off my cars early too, and I never finance for more than 36 months to avoid being "in a hole"

An added bonus of financing for 36 months is that interest rates tend to be lower for loans with shorter terms.

bobst · April 2005

Fire, what lessons have you learned?

lhess · April 2005

I don't think i used the word "criminal" anywhere. By "bad" i meant that a salesman probably took advantage of someone's inexperience in buying a car. they paid sticker, they've made 19 payments and they still owe the sticker on the car. I don't care who you are or what you're willing to pay - that's a BAD situation and I think even firesign is agreeing with this!!

driftracer...i take it you're a salesman? you can tell me "no" on a high demand vehicle (been told that before) - I'd simply walk away and keep looking. I've never been in a situation where I've HAD to have a car at that moment and I've always been able to buy the car I wanted (eventually and possibly used) at a deal I can live with. Patience has always paid off for me!!

firesign...as i said - I loved my spyder and buying it used, i still had a payment of $400 a month. don't let the purveyors of gloom scare you on mitsubishi. I paid $19K for mine, drove it for 4 years, just traded it, and got $12K for it. Take good care of it, don't rack up the miles and there will be a market for a nice-looking convertible when it's the time is right to trade. Do look at refinancing - that interest rate would kill anyone!!

lhess · April 2005

remember this lesson on your next deal. as driftracer said, some salesmen will tell you "NO" on the deal you want or have to have to afford the car. WALK AWAY and keep looking - don't cave and buy something you can't afford.

cadillacmike · April 2005

I don't think she (lhess) meant bad in the criminal sense, unless she meant criminally dumb!

The original post mentioned interest only for the first year, so MSRP of 27,000 (paid sticker - who knows) plus tax, tag, title and (horrors) "fees", this can easily be a "current balance" of $27,000.00. The original post also mentioned a high interest rate, so there wasn't much principal pay down in the last six months either. deep dark secrets here, just something I would never agree to as buyer!

cadillacmike · April 2005

and with the new BL law signed two days ago, he won't be blowing this off either!

cadillacmike · April 2005

" don't think i used the word "criminal" anywhere. By "bad" i meant that a salesman probably took advantage of someone's inexperience in buying a car. they paid sticker, they've made 19 payments and they still owe the sticker on the car. I don't care who you are or what you're willing to pay - that's a BAD situation and I think even firesign is agreeing with this!! "

Time warp post crossing - just what I ws thinking...

"driftracer...i take it you're a salesman? you can tell me "no" on a high demand vehicle (been told that before) - I'd simply walk away and keep looking. I've never been in a situation where I've HAD to have a car at that moment and I've always been able to buy the car I wanted (eventually and possibly used) at a deal I can live with. Patience has always paid off for me!! "

Amen.

"firesign...as i said - I loved my spyder and buying it used, i still had a payment of $400 a month. don't let the purveyors of gloom scare you on mitsubishi. I paid $19K for mine, drove it for 4 years, just traded it, and got $12K for it. Take good care of it, don't rack up the miles and there will be a market for a nice-looking convertible when it's the time is right to trade. Do look at refinancing - that interest rate would kill anyone!! "

You did GREAT on that car! Car aside you did better than I did on my New 2001 Miata. But then again, I got a NEW, fully optioned Miata, for $470/ month (no cash of mine down), had it 3&1/2 years, got FREE routine maintenance, so never spent a dime except for 1 set of tires, ran up 66,000 miles and still got $3,000 more than what I owed when I traded it.

What did you trade the eclipse for??? We need to get you to test drive a Cadillac!

He might not be able to refinance due to credit problems, etc. You don't get a 22% rate for nothing! There's more here than meets the eye (or screen). :confuse:

lhess · April 2005

I got an rx8. drove a leftover 2004 off the lot last month. Dealer invoice of $27,846 and i got OTD for $21,500 (that includes the $1500 in equity on my spyder) and my TTL out of pocket. I'm not saying i'm the best car-buying negotiator on earth - in fact, I walked away from rx8 deals for about 6 months before I got what i wanted. that was my message to firesign - instant gratification is COSTLY!!

I do believe there is more than meets the eye on the above deal. I suspect it was a combination of "Gotta have it now" and "we can get ya financed" on the salesman's part.

driftracer...no offense to your profession. I am a firm believer in "buyer beware" (don't take that as being negative either). I take it to mean that it's up to the buyer to be informed enough to make a good deal ("good deal" is completely subjective), know what they can and cannot do, and live with the consequences when it's over - whether they walked or signed. Most, most bad deals don't involve anything illegal!!

No offense on the Cadillac offer - I'm saving that for retirement. And, if I could retire tomorrow, I'd come buy one!!

cadillacmike · April 2005

I don't sell them, just drive 'em. (and like it too!)

I did like the Miata tho and still miss it sometimes. The misses likes the rx8 too, but I didn't like the insurance premium!

driftracer · April 2005

no, not a salesman, haven't sold cars since 1994 (fleet - retail since 1992). Was an F&I manager/sales manager for several years, though.

Been out of the car business since 2001, out of the sales side since 2000.

lemko · April 2005

...what Cadillacs do you have? I have a 1989 Brougham and a 2002 Seville STS.

Per firesign's predicament. Did he do the 0-0-0 thing Mitsubishi was advertising back in the day? I never heard of an interest-only car loan. My girlfriend just bought a LaCrosse - got an amazing 1% interest rate. She has bulletproof credit so she easily qualified. I didn't see any mention of firesign having any credit problems. Was it a case of a first-time buyer with no credit history? Any way I look at it, 22% seems usurious.

cadillacmike · April 2005

Lemko,

I have the following:
1968 deVille Convertible (sky blue)
1995 Fleetwood Brougham Sedan (black)
2000 Eldorado Convertible (crimson "pearl")
2005 CTS (black)

They are all pretty much full optioned cars (except for no sunroof on the Fleetwood, no Bose stero on the Eldorado, no power vents or door locks on the DeVille, but the CTS is maxed out).

I used to have a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham and a 1973 Sedan deVille. That's six total with 4 on hand (and no room in the garage :mad: )

2002 Seville, nice, 1989 Brougham, if you have the 350 CI, it's ok, but the 305 lacks power. I'm looking for a 1992 Brougham with the 350 and the factory CD player.

That loan, probably a interest only for the first year loan, uncommon, but not unheard of. He didn't mention and credit problems, but very often here what's not mentioned is more revealing that what IS mentioned.

Owe more than it's worth... I'm upside down and I can't get up!

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