Honda Ridgeline SUT

uga91 · January 2006

"Symptoms are delusions of supremacy, followed by endless ranting."

Thank goodness this NEVER happens to Honda owners, right?

"The only known cure is buying a "foreign" brand, but for best results, buy something Japanese"

I love it when the argument is "You should buy an American car" the response is "My Honda was built in Ohio (or Alabama or whatever state) by Americans and is more American than your Chevy (or Ford or whatever) that was built in Canada (or Mexico or wherever)." But, when you want to play the "perceived quality" card, then your Honda is Japanese. Isn't the Ridgeline just as American as my F-150 that was built in Kansas City?

qbrozen · January 2006

ah, but i'm sure neither you nor I are involved in those other discussions, so what they do there should not influence what happens here. And, of course, there are the colloquialisms involved like "if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you?" and "why stoop to their level?"

Lower hauling needs does not necessarily amount to mulch and plants, by the way. I used my pilot to move furniture many times, I strapped a whirlpool tub to the roof, a california king mattress and box springs, and NUMEROUS trips to the dump with various appliances, etc. With a Ridge, I'm sure I could have managed those items I had to call in my father and his GMC pickup for (always restricted by the roof on the Pilot). Honestly, towing aside, I'm not sure what owners of domestic pickups are hauling that the Ridge can't. If you aren't towing or plowing, the only advantage I see in the full-size domestics is the actual volume of the bed ... so maybe those can carry 150 cases of beer, while the ridge can carry a measly 120 ... or something like that.

rsholland · January 2006

Oh, I know, but that "Head shrinkers" lead-in was just too tempting to pass on...

Bob

varmint · January 2006

Then why does the Chevy literature state that you must reduce payload expectations if you add passengers, gear, and accessories? Are Chevy passengers required to ride in the bed?

The Ridgeline's exact figures are 1,100 lbs in the bed, with 1,550 for the total payload. Since Ford and Chevy have not made any distinction in their web specs, we've had to work with total payload.

varmint · January 2006

I would find your claim about "not bashing Honda" a good deal more credible if you were in the SportTrac, Colorado, and Canyon forums complaining about lack of towing, payload, and off-road ability. But it really does seem that you've singled out the Ridgeline.

I believe a contrarian point of view is important. However, there's a difference between being critical and being negative. You need to recognize that your own posts are just as inflammatory as the responses you've earned.

rsholland · January 2006

It's funny that the midsize SportTrac, Colorado, Durango and Canyon are rarely if ever mentioned in terms of comparing with the (midsize) Ridgeline. All the critics want to compare it with are fullsize trucks.

The Tacoma and Frontier are mentioned from time to time, but never the domestic midsize pickups.

Bob

varmint · January 2006

Well, in all fairness, the Ridgeline's loaded-only pricing scheme does put it in the same tax bracket as big trucks. It's just that they don't offer the same level of sophistication at that price.

The market for loaded mid-size trucks is pretty small. So, the Ridgeline really is something of a tweener.

And I think we all know the domestic competitors simply are not competitive. Unless we're talking rental sales.

mrjjgittes · January 2006

I'm not sure I agree. I have looked at the Ridgline RT model and figure I can get one for just under $25k. I have also lloked extensively at Tacomas. To get a Tacoma with 4 wheel drive, double cab, a tow package, auto transmission and side air bags, will virtually always put you in very near $30k, with the way Toyota does its packaging. Also, at least here in Southern California, Tacomas set up like this with side air bags are few and far between. And you will typically not get a great deal on one. Also, to get a full size truck set up like this, you are looking at low to mid $30's, IF you can even get side airbags. So, all in all, with the price discounts Honda has offered, I actually think the Ridgeline is priced pretty well.

qbrozen · January 2006

well, yes, this is true about the options, varmint ... but, realistically how many buyers these days DON'T want power windows and locks and things like that.

Interestingly enough, I was just comparing the Frontier to the Ridge. A 4-door Frontier SE with automatic and power package has an invoice of $24,705, compared to the Ridge RT's invoice of $25,477. That's mightly close. Thing is, the difference between Honda's invoice and MSRP is greater, so the Ridge LOOKS to be almost $2K more ... but since most vehicles sell near invoice, the street prices put these 2 vehicles VERY close together. And, actually, if not for the current $1k rebate on the Nissan, the TMVs of the 2 are only ~$450 apart.

And, to throw this out there ... the cheapest 4wd Avalanche has a TMV of $34,325. With the $4k rebate, that brings it to $30,325. Wow! That's just not even close to the Ridge's entry price or that Frontier example from above.

I just went and searched all Frontier discussions and the only mention of Avalanche was in reference to the color Nissan offers by that same name. Hmmmmm.... why is that? Is it just that the Ridge stirs up some kind of resentment in the loins of the domestic fans? Why the selective bias?

once_for_all · January 2006

Bob, the new SportTrac will change things a bit.

AWD,IRS,handling and safety distinguish the Ridge from all others, and the SportTrac will be the only direct competitor.

John

chisoxjeeper · January 2006

I laugh at them, as i laugh at you. enjoy your vehicle with 10 year old technology. I used to be a buy only american guy, but I learned my lesson.. maybe you will to one day..

dont hate what you dont understand...

varmint · January 2006

Oh, I'm not saying the Ridgeline isn't competitively priced. It's just... because there is no stripped base model, the only price seen by the public is for a truck which has considerably more equipment than the rest.

The Frontier and Tacoma both cost just as much when loaded up with the same hardware. However, at that point, they too are sneaking into full-size truck territory. Because they offer base models, they don't attract the same attention.

varmint · January 2006

For reference... Wooddorker posted some info back in November regarding sales of the Tacoma. Note that 60% of the Tacomas sold were 2wd. The niche for high-priced mid-size trucks just isn't that big.

OTOH, the number of 4X4 Tacomas sold was not that much higher than the number of Ridgeline's sold that month. And I'm sure many of the Tacomas were equipped with fewer options than the Ridgeline. This suggests the Ridgeline is doing just fine within that small niche.

varmint · January 2006

For reference... Wooddorker posted some info back in November regarding sales of the Tacoma. Note that 60% of the Tacomas sold were 2wd. The niche for high-priced mid-size trucks just isn't that big.

OTOH, the number of 4X4 Tacomas sold was not that much higher than the number of Ridgeline's sold that month. And I'm sure many of the Tacomas were equipped with fewer options than the Ridgeline. This suggests the Ridgeline is doing just fine within that small niche.

qbrozen · January 2006

The niche for high-priced mid-size trucks just isn't that big.

Absolutely. And Honda knew this, obviously, since they've gotten very close to their projected sales.

The Tacoma stands in a special position itself, being the ONLY import truck in the under $15k category. I know alot of people who look to the entry Tacoma when shopping for a cheap new car. Slotted right in there with the likes of the Neon, Ion, and what have you. That's not meant to be derogatory, by the way, before anyone jumps on me for calling the Tacoma an economy car ... i'm just stating my experience with some shopping friends and family. Not to mention all those purchased for small delivery businesses, etc.

thegraduate · January 2006

To those of you talking about comparing the Frontier, Tacoma, Ridgleine, and other midsizers, a new forum is underway comparing 6 midsizers including those mentioned, as well as the GM twins and the Dodge Dakota (once was a 'tweener itself!). It can be found on the forum pages of any of the trucks mentioned in this particular post.

thegrad

rsholland · January 2006

Not only that, but it will have a V8 option too. So I agree, the all-new SportTrac will give it a run for its money. Having said that, I suspect, if you examine both vehicles closely, the RL will likely win out. Of course, that will depend on where your priorities lie.

Bob

gearhead1 · January 2006

But, when you want to play the "perceived quality" card, then your Honda is Japanese. Isn't the Ridgeline just as American as my F-150 that was built in Kansas City?

The Accords and Camrys built in America are supervised by the Japanese. That's quite a big difference over the Cars built in America supervised by Americans. Painful but true.

The Ridgeline is built in Canada not the US.

once_for_all · January 2006

I agree, the RL probably wins out over the new Ford SportTrac, unless Ford really comes in with a low price tag.

However, neither gets my $ until there is a diesel in it. That said, my guess is Ford is further along than Honda.

John

bamacar · January 2006

Did you see where the Nissan Titan is planning a diesel? Hopefully with the new clean diesel standards next year, most truck automakers will add a diesel option. For a truck's purpose, a diesel makes perfect sense to me also.

once_for_all · January 2006

yes, the "heavy duty" truck category (ie the Titan) has different emission regulations than the LDD that could go into mid-size vehicles. So while the Titan can get dieselized right away, the Ridgeline and SportTrac trucks have to wait for the clean fuel and improved engines.

John

toykick · January 2006

so how does the ridgeline power its AWD again 90% of its power upfront and 10 on back?

what kinda lift can you guys put on without mechanical problems? 3 inches? or are you ridgeline owners droping it making it a 4500 pound race truck?

KCRam · January 2006

...this was the second time I've had to put a Ridgeline discussion on vacation. Not sure why it's always Ridgeline, because no other truck discussions have this problem. If the discussion does not remain civil and on topic, then additional action may need to be taken.

Carry on.

kcram - Pickups Host

thegraduate · January 2006

Woo hoo, timeout is over. I went and created another discussion in the Ridgeline's off-time. Feel free to take a look; I know several have already pitched their in two cents; some more like a dollar.

eric6 · January 2006

Hi,

I am thinking about a Ridgeline. I have a couple questions:

1. Does the Ridgeline have a towing package(ie transmission cooler, tow hitch)

2. How many people sit in the back seat comfortably?

3. Is there enough head room and seat comfort for some one 6' 4'' in the front seat?

Thanks,

Eric

nowakj66 · January 2006

As to 3 - I am 6' 4" with 36" inseam and the front fits great.

I am attracted to Ridgeline as well and like the idea of 2 car seats on the back bench - one in the middle - allowing me to go as far back as I like in the front seat.

Many cars lack latch connectors in the middle seat.

gearhead1 · January 2006

1. Does the Ridgeline have a towing package(ie transmission cooler, tow hitch)

The RL comes standard with the following. you just need to add the hitch and the wiring harness.

STANDARD TOWING FEATURES:
 Pre-wired for 4- and 7-pin connectors
 Pre-wired for trailer brake controller
 Heavy-duty radiator with dual 160-watt fans
 Heavy-duty power steering fluid cooler
 Heavy-duty ATF cooler
 Huge front and rear brake rotors
 Closed-box frame with unit-body construction
 5,000-lb. towing capacity

Tow Ready
The Ridgeline takes towing seriously. To start with, it has a 5-speed automatic transmission that's specially geared for this purpose. There's also a standard high capacity radiator with dual 160-watt fans, a heavy-duty power steering cooler, a high-capacity ATF cooler, and it's pre-wired for a trailer connection (4-/7-Pin). Large brake rotors at all four wheels and Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) ensure quick and deliberate stops when it matters most.

3.5-Liter VTEC® V-6 Engine
A 3.5-liter, VTEC V-6 engine gives the Ridgeline optimum power and efficiency. This results in 247-hp and 245 lb.-ft. torque. The VTEC engine combined with an innovative two-stage intake manifold and a special fresh-air intake system provide power when you need it, with high-end horsepower and low-end torque even during extreme towing conditions. The fresh-air intake draws air from the top of the front grill to protect against dust and water intrusion during launches. You'll power your boat up even the steepest ramp in no time.

2. How many people sit in the back seat comfortably?

I've had three adults sit in the back and were very comfortable on a 3+ hour trip. 2 adults travel in even more comfort as the flip down console and arm rest becomes available.

thegraduate · January 2006

I'm 6'5" with a 35 inseam and had plenty of room in the driver seat, and could sit behind someone 6 foot plus in the back seat. The interior accomodations were similar to those of the Pilot as far as room and seat comfort are concerned.

once_for_all · January 2006

I am 6'3 and 35" inseam. My head is in the roof with the sun roof option.

Room for a Texan hat with the regular roof.

John

ryanbab · January 2006

Just a question and probably no one can answer (not trying to start anything) but if they offer a tow package why dont they offer a hitch??? I dont know which mfgs do this but it seems honda and toyota both do this. My mom and dad recently bought a toyota highlander and they brought it over to show me and my mom goes it even has the tow package. I took a look and said wheres the hitch? I guess this is one of those why is the sky blue questions

varmint · January 2006

Gotta give the dealers something to sell. It is pretty sad, though.

geo9 · January 2006

Your folks bought a yota? Thought they had a Blazer?
Next your gonna post your little brother will have a
honda with a fart can, wing, and dubs with spinnaz !!!

1st OBY buys a nissan, Then this.............. :P

boomchek · January 2006

Not everybody needs a hitch sticking out the back. Easier to dealer install a hitch then all of the towing components that come built in at the factory.

atlgaxt · January 2006

My issue is that you can buy a $12,000 Ford Ranger and all you need to do is put a $9.00 ball on the bumper if you need to pull a small utility trailer. The hole is there, the attachment points for the chains are there and the wiring is in place.

It is silly to buy a $30,000 vehicle that Honda calls "tow ready" and then have to spend over $500 for a hitch and wiring to pull anything. If I understand it correctly, wiring the Ridgeline for towing includes having to do work in the dashboard. Even the piece of junk Mazda B4000 I bought a few years back came with a Class III hitch and all the wiring standard and was built to tow 5,500 pounds without having to buy an optional tow package or do anything to the truck. Now that is "tow ready". I really do like the Ridgeline, but I think that showed poor planning on Honda's part.

qbrozen · January 2006

Good point. Not so much about the price, because I don't think that should even factor in. What should factor in is that they advertise it as being extremely versatile, and its a truck. So why not do something simple like make it more towing friendly? Include the tranny cooler from the factory on all Ridgelines and make the wiring harness a simple plug in the rear. That's all. I would still make the hitch itself optional, personally, since MOST buyers aren't going to tow anyway, and I wouldn't want a hitch sticking out the rear if I were to buy one.

bolivar · January 2006

Wait a minute.

Isn't the wiring there? For 2 different kind of connectors?

And, there is a transmission cooler also there.

All I think need to be added is the 'hitch'.

Do I need to go get my owners manual out of the garage?

robr2 · January 2006

The transmission cooler is factory installed.

The hitch is available on it's own.

The wiring is sold on it's own and includes both the harness for connecting at the rear and the brake controller. I have no idea if you have to install the brake controller in order to have the trailer lights work.

qbrozen · January 2006

so... they have the tranny cooler on this, but not the Pilot? Is that correct? IIRC, the Pilot towing package runs about $800 or so, from the dealer, installed. The price is high due to installing the tranny cooler.

I also remember several Pilot folks talking about going under the dash to hook up the trailer lights. Is this also different on the Ridge?

robr2 · January 2006

Go here:

http://www.handaaccessories.com/ridgeline/hitch.pdf

It's shows the installation of the brake controller under the dash and the plug at the back. I have no idea if the brake controller harness has anything to do with activating the trailer lights.

qbrozen · January 2006

I may be wrong, but I believe the wiring diagram indicates the brake controller itself is for electric brakes on the trailer, but the relays you need to install are for the lights.

Its good they added the tranny cooler to the Ridge. The install of the kit, overall, looks fairly easy. But I can see why folks would complain about going in the dash. I mean, how much extra would it really cost Honda to just have the brake controller and relays installed at the factory?

robr2 · January 2006

But I can see why folks would complain about going in the dash. I mean, how much extra would it really cost Honda to just have the brake controller and relays installed at the factory?

Probably more than what 95% of Ridgeline buyers would be willing to pay. At MSRP it would probably add $200 to the vehicle. I'm willing to bet that only about 5% of Ridgeline buyers will tow enough to warrant trailer brakes. I for one would never need it nor want it were I to purchase a Ridgeline.

Does any other manufacturer include a controller without a tow package?

qbrozen · January 2006

there is no way a few wires and relays cost a car manufacturer $200.

You can buy it yourself for $138. So my guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of less than $50 per vehicle (probably way less than).

There are plenty of things on every vehicle that not everyone wants, but since its not detailed on a vehicle's price sheet what each little thing costs, nobody gives it a second thought. Heck, I got 2 little ashtrays on my car that I've never used and never will use. That probably could have saved me $10 right there.

It doesn't matter what anyone else offers. If all manufacturers jumped off a bridge, should Honda jump, too?

robr2 · January 2006

there is no way a few wires and relays cost a car manufacturer $200.

I said it would add about $200 to the MSRP - not cost Honda $200.

You can buy it yourself for $138. So my guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of less than $50 per vehicle (probably way less than).

$50 for parts/labor to do it at the factory sounds right so $200 MSRP on the vehicle is in the ballpark. Honda's MSRP just for the part according to their website is $169 - without installation.

There are plenty of things on every vehicle that not everyone wants, but since its not detailed on a vehicle's price sheet what each little thing costs, nobody gives it a second thought. Heck, I got 2 little ashtrays on my car that I've never used and never will use. That probably could have saved me $10 right there.

True but those ashtrays are now called storage compartments - useful for everyone, not just a small segment of buyers.

It doesn't matter what anyone else offers. If all manufacturers jumped off a bridge, should Honda jump, too?

It does matter. If a brake controller is expected without a towing package, then Honda should offer it in order to meet the market's expectation. But if it's only part of an optional tow package, then there's no reason to offer it except for differentiation.

I have a friend with 2 tow vehicles - an Expedition and a Titan. Both had factory towing packages. Guess what - he had to buy and install a brake controller seperately for each. The factory package didn't include it.

varmint · January 2006

"I'm willing to bet that only about 5% of Ridgeline buyers will tow enough to warrant trailer brakes."

Which means that even fewer would really need the transmission cooler (a far more expensive chunk of hardware).

I tend to agree that Honda should have included the brake controller and relays.

I'm willing to bet the real reason why it's not in there is to give the dealerships something to sell (pure speculation on my part). It's possible that the engineers included it along with the tranny cooler, but got over-ruled by the marketing folks. In a compromise they elected to offer one, but not the other.

robr2 · January 2006

Which means that even fewer would really need the transmission cooler (a far more expensive chunk of hardware).

I'll disagree. The standard tranny cooler is a far more functional feature for owners. It at least helps to lenghten the life of the transmission when used under load. Not everyone has to tow to receive benefit from the cooler. If you carry heavy loads (ATV's, motorcycles, et al) which can overwork the transmission you get the benefit. Also, including that helps defelect the criticism of Honda auto transmissions in heavier applications.

I again ask because I don't know the answer - how many vehicles come factory equipped with brake controllers from the factory?

atlgaxt · January 2006

I'm not a mechanic or engineer, but my guess is that designing and building all the necessary wiring and including the hitch standard on all the vehicles would have a fairly minimal up front cost and in my mind would add a lot of value to the truck. It costs more to have to go in and add that stuff afterward. There are probably lots of folks who might not want to pay $500+ extra for this equipment up front, but if it is there you might end up using it.

Its kind of like having a pickup for a typical personal user. Do I honestly have to have one? No, I could commute back and forth to work and the grocery store in a Geo Metro. But since I have a pickup I keep finding new ways to use it.

I'm afraid Varmint probably has it right. I think they probably did it this way to create another profit center for their dealers.

rsholland · January 2006

To the best of my knowledge, only the Ford Super-Duty pickups offer an electronic brake controller. It's called "Tow Command."

http://www.fordvehicles.com/asp/popups/flashpopup.asp?height=200&width=480&filen- ame=trailercontroller.swf

It just boggles my mind that other pickup/SUV makers don't offer such a device. Virtually every vehicle that promotes towing, has trailer brake restrictions. For most vehicles, anything over 1000 pounds requires trailer brakes (the exception being fullsize GM pickups/SUVs, in which the limit is 2000 pounds; and some European SUVs which are in the 1600 pound range). This is stated in the owners manualbut rarely in product literature (Chevy and Land Rover being exceptions), and certainly never seen in vehicle ads.

To be honest, I think there should be a law "requiring" that trailer brake restrictions accompany any and all marketing of SUVs and pickups. I'm sure thousand of "newbie" towing customers have purchased tow vehicles believing the 5K towing advertisment, and have absolutely no knowledge of the towing brake restrictions. They don't find that out until after they've made their purchase.

One of the things I do when shopping tow vehicles is to ask to see the owner's manual, and check to see what is said about towing. The funny (sad?) thing is that most SUV/pickup sales people know nothing about trailer brake restrictions.

Bob

qbrozen · January 2006

It does matter. If a brake controller is expected without a towing package, then Honda should offer it in order to meet the market's expectation.

Ah, but ya know, there was a time when many things weren't expected. People didn't expect ABS, airbags, or even seatbelts. Good thing they were added and are now standard on many many vehicles.

If you want to call yourself an innovator, as Honda does, then you need to offer things that people aren't expecting. This truck already offers things that nobody thought to offer before, so why stop short of something as simple as a wiring harness that would help support the image of a tough and tumble truck that they are trying to portray in advertising?

Besides, we still haven't proven if even the trailer lights would work without that harness. So its not just a brake controller we're talking about here.

robr2 · January 2006

This truck already offers things that nobody thought to offer before, so why stop short of something as simple as a wiring harness that would help support the image of a tough and tumble truck that they are trying to portray in advertising?

Ahh but the wiring is there for the installation of the brake controller. It's a plug and play install for the harness and controller box. On most of the big trucks, you have to pay extra for the wiring just to install a controller and you have to buy the contoller aftermarket.

sebring95 · February 2006

I'm on my 4th heavy-duty truck and 2nd half-ton since 2001 and have yet to see one that didn't have all the wiring for a brake controller. You plug-in the harness that comes with the truck, and then wire the aftermarket controller to that harness. Takes about 30 minutes with mounting the controller being the toughest part.

I was quite surprised when Ford offered the built-in controller. I always felt they omitted that piece due to liability. Brake controllers typically are adjusted by the end user based upon many variables. Screw up the calibration and you'll have some fun during an emergency stop.

BTW, I've been lurking here as I'm shopping a replacement for my current 1/2 ton. I think the RL is a little too light-duty for me, but I can see it being great for the average 1/2 ton truck buyer.

Honda Ridgeline SUT

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