Subaru Impreza WRX STi

qbrozen · April 2004

that's fine with me. But they offer only for Evo. So I would certainly think you could give us a rundown of an EVO and what mods you would add to get it up to the price of the STi.

Ya know, just for kicks, though, I found this interesting quote on that website:
Our products are undetectable or fully reversible while utilizing the factory mounting locations. For example, each piece in our modular "Exhale" exhaust series is a direct replacement of the factory exhaust components and can be swapped one-for-one for that quick trip back to the dealer. More importantly WORKS offers an industry leading factory matched 3-year warranty with unlimited miles.

So, on one hand, they are saying that their products are designed to fool the dealer into honoring the factory warranty, but then they say they offer their own warranty. Hmmmmmm....

We really COULD argue as to warranty in this case, but its not worth it. If you trust it, go for it.

boomn29 · April 2004

What would I do to get an EVO to compete with an STI - buy it. From the factory it's faster nearly identical in the 1/4 and has better skipad, slalom, braking, track numbers, and costs about 2k less with a stereo!

ldbricker · April 2004

with an added turbo back exhaust and a reflash would definitely exceed 300hp. It would probably hit 300 with just a good reflash. It would have less $ in it than an STi, especially if you wanted a comparable stereo in the STi.

boomn29 · April 2004

A $200-500 reflash can net you around 30whp. That would be like 315 at the crank.

qbrozen · April 2004

I think the topic is mistitled. If you look back at the original poster who created the topic, you'll see he says "i really don't want to talk about sti and evos all day, is there any other cars that can beat those twinturbocharged little sedans with less $?"

So I take it the idea is that these 2 sedans are virtually a dead heat and grouped together. So what else is there?

And I agree. Obviously, the EVO and STi are direct competitors and could be argued back and forth all day long. As a matter of fact, you can do so right here.

majorthomecho · April 2004

I think the term "within the price range" needed to be more clearly defined. Are two cars with a difference of $5,000 in the same price range? How about two cars where the difference in price is $10,000.

280hp · April 2004

Audi S4 ?

qbrozen · April 2004

Are you seriously cross-shopping vehicles that are $10K apart? I know I'm not. I'm usually looking at vehicles that are within $2K of each other. If I go any further than that, I'm either not getting as much car as I want or its at a point I can't afford it. But, what do I know? Maybe you'll tell me that you cross-shopped a WRX with a Porsche 911.

ateixeira · April 2004

FWIW, for my wife we shopped cars and trucks anywhere from $17k to $26k.

We actually checked out an Expedition only half seriously, and that stickered for $43k. But I'd have picked up a used one for $20k, anyway.

Hardest part is diminishing returns, the more you spend the less improvement you get, which is why these two cars offer the best bang for the buck.

-juice

kevin111 · April 2004

With a weight of +3800 lbs. it is not as agile or fast as either the Evo or the STi.

qbrozen · April 2004

ok, maybe i shouldn't say "would you cross-shop" as much as "would you buy".

In other words, I also looked at cars much cheaper than what I bought. But found them lacking one way or more in terms of what I wanted. So, yes, technically, I cross-shopped them, but they never warranted serious consideration.

Good example was when I bought my 626. I also test drove the Protege while I was there. Now this was only about a $4K difference, but I quickly wrote off the Protege.

Then again, I suppose I'm not considering that large group of folks who are willing to compromise with what they drive or who really don't care as its just another appliance to them. Oh well.

ateixeira · April 2004

We were looking for tangible advantages for our family car and didn't really find them. So we just paid less and got a Legacy wagon with AWD. The SUVs we considered gave up a lot in efficiency and handling.

That's different than an EVO or STi shopper, though, I'm sure they're very focused on the performance.

-juice

rickrover · April 2004

When I bought my STi I cross shopped the Evo and M3. I could have bought an M3, but why? I couldn't justify almost double the cost for a slightly slower car - I regularly embarras a friend of mine with an 03 M3 SMG cabrio.

The only car I can think of that comes somewhat close to these two is a Mustang Cobra assuming the Ford dealer discounts it. The Ford dealers in my area discount Cobras. The Cobra will hang with the Subie and Evo until the road gets curvy :-)

The main reason the STi doesn't handle as well as an Evo is Subie sent it over with what is essentially an off road rally set up where the Evo is set up for the track. I've got the STi JDM springs, lateral links, end links and upgraded strut bushings on my STi - all Subaru parts that did an amazing job of tightening up the suspension. This is the suspension spec Subaru should have put in the STi in the first place. I have a few other little suspension tweaks yet to do to it - mostly a few more bushings and engine/ transmission mounts. None of this was very expensive.

ateixeira · April 2004

I wonder if they set them up for possible US SCCA Rally Cross use.

You did find gray market import EVOs and STis there before they were sold here.

-juice

ldbricker · April 2004

that I am going to very happily and graciously accept whichever of the two someone decides to give me. If I end up spending my money for one then I will go with the Evo because I like the looks more. I don't believe the performance is enough different to be the deciding factor so in typical American fashion I'll go with eye appeal.

qbrozen · April 2004

so you were shopping for a new M3?

Well, reasons for wanting such a vehicle usually go beyond just performance. Obviously, you did not feel that luxury ammenities were an important part of your car, therefore you are not even a target audience for the M3.

boomn29 · April 2004

...or maybe he didn't want a $53k status symbol that is overpriced.

A very good friend of mine has a 2003 so I know what I'm talking about. And no, he won't race my EVO - he refuses to!

mikus · April 2004

I do not see other rivals but S4. It is more expensive and I am pretty sure more troubling. I would not buy a European car anyway. But I would not buy an Evo either, I am happy I did not do it a year ago (29K was a really good price). MR is coming and MR is what real Evo is about: ACD+AYC. I'd wait for MR.

oldman · April 2004

Why cant Sub offer an STi without those "boy racer" seats and that rediculous wing?? I'd buy one if it weren't for having to look at that stupid junk, or have people laughing at the sight of such an overdone sled. Count me waiting for the '06 SVT Cobra stang.

ldbricker · April 2004

and arrange a trunk swap with a WRX driver. There are lots of them who want the STi wing and will give you their WRX trunk plus cash for your STi trunk. You'll be glad you have the seats if you drive the car the way it's meant to be driven. They are one of the best supporting seats available.

boomn29 · April 2004

I can see how older drivers also would have problems with the huge wobbling hood scoop, and all the pink around the car.

boomn29 · April 2004

Hey, it's not nearly the same type of car. It's a 2 seater vs a sedan, but it is closer to the price range - 32k vs 39k.

buddhabman · April 2004

It's funny but I see more 30 & 40 year old drivers of the EVO and STi, at least here in LA in the West Valley and through Hollywood and Mid Cities. I have seen two 20 somethings and about six 30-40 somethings driving EVO's. I have only seen four 30-40 somethings driving STi's I see Sti's parked I rarely see them driving.

As of today, within the price range(30-34K) only modified base WRX's,heavily modified SRT-4 or heavily modded RSX/TSX's, or a Mustang SVT Cobra would come close.

ateixeira · April 2004

Wait about a month, and go try out a 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT.

It gets the same EJ257 semi-closed deck block, forged internals, tuned for 250 hp and 250 lb-ft with a 5 speed manual or 5 speed Sportshift if those old knees have grown tired.

Sure, the STi has 300, but the output of the Forester XT is grossly understated. Claimed output is 210 but dyno reports say it's more like 240-250, with torque in the 265 lb-ft range.

The Legacy gets more boost than that, so it falls somewhere between the two. And it's all grown up.

The GT Limited will have leather and a huge moonroof, in a package that's appealing to a mature audience. Any audience, really.

Oh, and it costs less.

-juice

boomn29 · April 2004

Leather + performance don't mix.

qbrozen · April 2004

LOL!
You obviously mean that from a subjective standpoint, correct?
Because I think Ferrari, to name one, mixes those 2 things quite well.

ateixeira · April 2004

So pass on the Limited package, the base GT has heated cloth. The seats are unique, not the same as the base Legacy.

-juice

boomn29 · April 2004

Yes, me not liking leather on performance cars is subjective. However it is usually the way the testers think as well.

It's hard to keep your butt planted in a slick leather seat when your cornering hard!

qbrozen · April 2004

that's what well-designed bolsters are for.

boomn29 · April 2004

Good point. My Recaro's are just fine. I've had leather before and didn't like it.

I'm looking at buying leather furniture for my house though - so go figure!

qbrozen · April 2004

Just don't take any sharp turns while playing Gran Turismo and I think you'll be fine.

l943973 · May 2004

Ford is building a 300hp AWD Ford Focus that will compete against the WRX STi and Lancer Evolution.

The VW R32 will be a competitor in this price range. It has less hp, but will probably be more refined.

kevin111 · May 2004

Though it is more refined and has bigger wheels. 0-60 - 6.3 secs.

WRX - 0-60 5.7 secs.

Both times Car and Driver

On the opposite end of the spectrum of refinement compared to the VW is the Focus.

l943973 · May 2004

Neither the STi or Evo have much refinement. R&T compares the R32 to the like, but its first sentence is something like "YES, THE EVO AND STI ARE FASTER" to calm down the bench racers.

In price, utility, and demographic, the R32 is a competitor. If I were shopping for an STi or Evo, I would also check out the R32.

ateixeira · May 2004

Those reviews are already outdated, the '05 STi is already in dealerships and has a nicer interior plus a stereo. Some subtle exterior changes include rear wheel flares (to fit wider rims) and a single tip oval exhaust, plus some new colors.

The wider rims should help performance though most people won't notice such a small improvement.

-juice

kevin111 · May 2004

"Neither the STi or Evo have much refinement. R&T compares the R32 to the like, but its first sentence is something like "YES, THE EVO AND STI ARE FASTER" to calm down the bench racers.

In price, utility, and demographic, the R32 is a competitor. If I were shopping for an STi or Evo, I would also check out the R32."

- My question is this, why would someone buy an R32 if they can get a cheaper (relatively) faster and nicer vehicle in a Legacy GT???? Let alone the reliability issues!!!

If the R32 came out in 2001, it would sell unbelieveably. Unfortunately, there are faster/cheaper/better vehicles out there!

mikus · May 2004

Subaru entered WRC with Legacy. After they rolled out smaller Impreza they switched to it from Legacy for good. The same happened with Ford (Sierra to Escort), with Mitsubishi (Galant to Lancer). Lancia used smaller Delta Integrale from the beginning which became a benchmark for all newer rally cars.

Legacy simply is too large and heavy. Why would one buy Legacy GT instead of R32? For wider snowy roads? Maybe. But not for hairpins.

kevin111 · May 2004

"Legacy simply is too large and heavy. Why would one buy Legacy GT instead of R32? For wider snowy roads? Maybe. But not for hairpins. "

- Then, you would probably buy an Evo or an STi which would blow the R32 out of the water for about the same price or cheaper.

- Also, the Legacy actually weighs less than an R32 (under 3400 lbs.), so maybe it is the R32 that is too heavy???

krzyss · June 2004

that the trend continues.
Sierra -> Escort -> Focus
and Peugeot hatchback 206 WRC is quite small.
I believe Mitsubishi withdrawal from rallying was to develop smaller car. I suspect that Subaru might need to do the same.

Krzys

PS R32 is quite heavy, according to edmunds:
Exterior R32 Impreza WRX STi Legacy GT Limited
Length 164.4 in. 173.8 in. 186.2 in.
Width 68.3 in. 68.5 in. 78.4 in.
Height 56.1 in. 56.3 in. 56.1 in.
Weight 3409 lbs. 3263 lbs. 3365 lbs.
Wheel Base 99.1 in. 100 in. 105.1 in.
Ground Cleara 4.2 in. 5.7 in. 5.9 in.

ateixeira · June 2004

The 2005 Legacy GT lost a good amount of weight. The hood, hatch, roof rails, front and rear bumper beams are all now made of aluminum.

A sedan GT is actually down to 3300 lbs, plus it has a lower center of gravity than the tallish Golf.

-juice

mikus · June 2004

Smaller wheelbase and overall length is better for sharp turns. Also, smaller wheelbase allows for lower inertia. But I see that Subaru did a lot to offset Legacy larger dimensions.

kevin111 · June 2004

Would think that the weight would increase some of that inertia. Though CD said the R32 would be very good at Autocross.

ateixeira · June 2004

Subaru got the Legacy's turning cycle tighter than the WRX's, despite a longer wheelbase. Extensive use of aluminum also helped it lose 180 lbs.

One criticism about the current generation WRX is that it gained weight over its predecessor. The new Forester and Legacy both lost a significant amount, so expect the next Impreza to do the same. Subaru is really putting emphasis on aluminum (hood, hatch, front bumper beam, rear bumper beam, and both roof rails).

The current WRX only has the aluminum hood.

-juice

caballero1 · June 2004

O.K folks, I'm having some trouble deciding if I should trade up my G35 coupe for an STI, I'm 44 and love to drive. I will be using this vehicle as a daily commuter over highway 17 in Northern Cal(a winding highway over the Santa Cruz mountains-- lots of fun)so help please, your input will be greatly appreciated

ateixeira · June 2004

4 doors and AWD might actually make it *more* practical...

You only live once.

-juice

rsholland · June 2004

No question the STi will be the more fun car to drive. However, you will be giving up a lot of luxury and gizmos by doing so.

Bob

kevin111 · June 2004

Al - I think you are crazy if you are thinking of trading in the G35 for the STi.

The STi is a more visceral ride (faster, quicker, handling), but the G35 is not significantly that far off. The G35 also has the looks and luxury appointments. Also, the G35 has over a 20 gallon tank vs. the 15.9 gallon tank which means less stops to the gas station. Gas mileage between the two is very close.

If I was looking, I would seriously consider both cars. Since you already have the G35, it does not make any sense to take the depreciation hit (or lease hit if you are leasing) to exchange it for the STi.

Just my $0.02.

driftracer · June 2004

but the three cars I'm looking at are exactly the ones you're talking about here - my first love is a Cobr, but we do get winter here, and I don't want to buy a beater and park my daily driver for a month or two. I consult for a lawfirm, and interview clients and inspect their vehicles - my vehicle is as important to my business as a realtor's.

I'm looking hard at the STi and Evo. I race autocross, and have gotten into drifting with my son - I LOVE it. Even Rhys Millen couldn't drift an AWD car on pavement, though!

The funny thing is, I just (today) got a $28,700 price ($500 under invoice) on an '04 STi....that's the same price I'm looking at on a USED '03 Cobra w/15k miles!

ateixeira · June 2004

Did you buy it? If so, congrats. That's the lowest price I've heard of on an STi.

-juice

kevin111 · June 2004

"The funny thing is, I just (today) got a $28,700 price ($500 under invoice) on an '04 STi....that's the same price I'm looking at on a USED '03 Cobra w/15k miles! "

- I guess since the '05s are out, they are discounting the '04s???

Here in SoCal, it seems tough to find an STi under MSRP, still!!!!

Subaru Impreza WRX STi

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