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I know that the new Malibu is way better and GM is cutting fleet sales and incentives but I still don't think they've gone as far as Ford has nor as quickly. I do agree they're moving in the right direction and the Malibu is a good car - head and shoulders above what they have previously. But I still think they're 2-3 years behind Ford at this point.
That is a real puzzler. If one can get past the dowdiness of the Taurus, they will find it is one heckuva good sedan. I get Impala rentals frequently and can't understand how they sell in such volumes. The Taurus is superior in about every way imaginable.
I think it is primarily marketing. The Taurus is not advertised and our local dealers don't even have the usual Sunday ads for the Taurus anymore. When the 2010 eye-watering version arrives, I am betting they have a major campaign for it. Ford's standing is the strongest of the Detroit 3 now so the time is right to take as much advantage of it as possible.
Also I noticed in a picture it had a plug. I assume you are recharging something but since I live in a condo complex there is no way for me to plug in. I would have to stay in good standing with my girlfriend to go over there to recharge! Hmm, maybe two birds with one stone!
Be aware that if you're buying a hybrid to save money it normally takes at least 5 years and sometimes as much as 10-12 years of fuel savings to make up for the added cost of the hybrid version. If you just want a hybrid and don't mind paying a little extra up front that's fine, but be aware.
Heat is probably ok since there would be residual heat in the engine unless it's been off for a long time. And I think they switched to electric A/C so that may work also without the ICE - at least while the battery holds out. Early models required the engine to run for A/C which is one reason the early hybrids did so well on the EPA tests. Prior to 2008 the EPA did not use A/C on the fuel economy tests.
I believe anyone can start a topic. I would suggest a 2010 Fusion/Milan Hybrid topic. The 2009 Escape uses basically the same system with minor differences so you could probably get a lot of answers in those forums.
2010 Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid
LOL - I've always liked how SAABs looked. Of course, I still miss the more classic looking Volvo 240, or even the 850.
As for the Taurus, I think it looks classically functional.
"Classically functional" is the best compliment I have ever heard about the Taurus styling. My father used the same words to describe the manure spreader that we owned when I was a kid.
This car for me gets better than expected :surprise:
Your thoughts
But it does now look a bit more like a Lincoln, and I believe the new interior is more quiet than even the MKS. Should help a little bit to keep Lincoln in play. Now they need to upggrade the MKX the same way...especially needs a quieter interior, more akin to what the Navigator offers..
I really like the new front and rear ends but it would have been nice to change the greenhouse/roofline to take it further from the Fusion look. The interior is a nice upgrade although I do not care for the looks of the console. Overall, the 2010 looks a bit more upscale to my eyes than previous models.
The MKZ has a pretty quiet ride. They have done a nice job with managing engine noise and it sounds more refined than the last MKZ I drove. It also has a more pleasing sound than my wife's 2008 Taurus which has the same drivetrain. The model I drove was an AWD with only a few miles so it seemed a bit lethargic but it would probably be better when broken in.
For me, the ride was pretty compliant but a bit busy as you might expect with short wheelbase. While I did not push the car hard, it seemed to handle very well and not nearly as ponderous as a Taurus or MKS. The overall feel reminded me a bit of my LS - tight, solid, and well controlled. Individuals bumps are handled well but over seriously bad concrete roads the LS is smoother. The Taurus is softer than either of them but it lacks the quick reflexes.
There are 3 relatively inexpensive items that the MKZ lacks that would make a world of difference to me. The tilt/telescope wheel should be powered instead of having an unwieldly lever. It needs rear seat AC vents. Last, and most certainly not least - IT STILL HAS A DAMNABLE PROP-ROD HOOD. Totally unacceptable in this price range.
It has been a long time since I have driven an ES350 so I can't make comparisons to that. The sticker on the car I drove was around $40,000 and that strikes me as pretty high for what you get. However, I can understand why many buyers would find the MKZ to be a very pleasant, comfortable mid-size sedan. There are quite a few good sedans in this price range, though.
I also agree that the console could be nicer. It looks cheap with all that black. It needs some wood, especially a wood shifter. A leather wrapped shifter - big deal. My Maxima had that. Some people may like the contrasting seat piping, I hate it. It looks kind of tacky and I think a lot of people will be turned off by it. Seems like a desperate and inexpensive effort by Ford just to be "different." If buyers really liked that look, I would think Lexus, Cadillac, Infiniti and Acura would have already offered it. No heat or A/C vents for the rear seating compartment. Who is Lincoln competing with, Camry or Lexus?
There are so many minor and inexpensive things Ford could do to make the MKZ a true entry luxury car but, instead they offer free satellite radio for 6 months. And at a price equal to that of the ES, I fear the MKZ is in trouble. The Zephyr/MKZ offered a lot of bang for the buck and at several thousand dollars less could still only manage sales of about half the ES. What in the world makes Ford think they can jack the price up so much, especially when the MKZ isn't quite as nice?
I was seriously considering trading in my Zephyr for the new MKZ but now, I'll be looking elswhere or holding off until 2011. The 2010 MKZ just isn't a mind changer.
Traded in my 2007 MKZ. I am very happy camper with all the technology, etc.
Anyway, in my previous post, I stated I would not purchase the 10 MKZ. I went to the site to "build" one to see if I could be lured back. I found out some more disturbing things. The highway gas mileage is down from last year - not good for me since my daily commute on I-95 is 82 miles round trip. I have the Nav system an THX 6 CD changer on my Zephyr. Guess what, you can no longer get the Nav with the CD changer! You either get the Nav OR you get the CD changer. The Nav only comes with a single load CD. Even the new $2500 THX/Nav pkg is only single play. That's exactly what I want to do going 65 mph down I-95 - fumble with CD cases while trying to eject & insert CDs. Funny that you can get the Nav with 6 CD changer in Lexus, Infinti and Acura (didn't check Cadillac). Anytime you take away something that was previously offered, it's a downgrade. Once again Ford fails to meet the competition. And after checking the competitions' sites, I just can't get excited about the "new" MKZ interior. It's still several notches below. Look at the ES or the CTS. Not even close.
So, in the 2010 MKZ, we have a prop rod, no air vents for the rear seats, a degraded audio system, a cheap looking console, fewer color choices (no blue), less gas mileage, low profile hard riding tires and a price increase of about $2K. This thing is looking more and more like a train wreck.
And the price increase is mostly due to options becoming standard like stability control.
At least get your facts straight before you start bashing.
Also, I said the base price increased by about 2K - THAT'S A FACT. Your comments about "things" now being standard is merely an attempt to justify the price increase. The problem with making certain things standard is you force people to pay for things they may not want. I'm sure there are potential buyers that do not want to pay extra for stability control or for sat radio or for cooled seats. My point is, adding more to the base price may not be good market strategy. Leave some things out and let the buyer decide if they want to pay for them. Your average buyer is going to look at the price of MKZ and Lexus and may very well say - I'll take the Lexus since it costs the same.
Here are my other comments on the 2010 MKZ:
Fewer exterior colors offered
No rear air vents
Less highway mileage than the 2009
Low profile tires
Again, which of these statements is incorrect? My comments concerning the ugly, cheap console and degraded stereo are opinions. Not right or wrong but, opinions. I'll give you that. You told me to get my facts straight before I start bashing. One might suggest that you brush up on your reading comprehension skills so you understand what you read. That way you can more appropriately bash the post rather than the poster. Fair enough?
One last thing concerning the Camry/ES thing. I have access to both. Family members have the Camry and a good friend has an 09 ES. I driven both. Toyota has done a good job separating the Lexus from the Camry. The Camry is no where near the MKZ but, the ES is nicer than the MKZ (my opinion). Other than some trim, I don't think there is much difference between the MKZ and Fusion/Milan.
Just because your statements were "technically" correct does not make them less misleading. I'm with you on the lack of rear air vents and fuel mileage and I'll even grant you that the MKZ is not quite as nice as the ES (but I bet it handles a lot better based on the Fusion/Camry comparos). But it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
As for the CD player, the jukebox feature is very cool and simple to operate. It really makes the old 6 disc changer obsolete, IMO. I like the fact that you can download the CD and then use it in your home system or another vehicle. You don't need multiple copies of the same CD.
You and I are in agreement on the other features and those lacking. And, yes, I think the price gets a bit steep in spite of the more standard equipment. I really haven't driven any of the MKZ's competition so I can't make direct comparisions but I know that the ES with options can get up into MKS pricing territory fairly easily.
If my choice was between an MKZ and a 2010 Taurus Limited, I would take the Taurus in a heartbeat and pocket a few thousand bucks.
Like others, I have read that the 3.5 "is not as refined" as Japanese V6s. The only Japanese V6 I have driven lately is my boss's Acura RL. I admit that the engine is pretty sweet. However, I really like the sound of the 3.5 and it is a lot smoother than the pre-2010 3.0. I also think there are some perception issues around this "refinement" argument. Other than smoothness and sound, I am not sure how you measure refinement.
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/10MKZ_Refined_Powertrain_Sound_Quality.pdf
If mfr = (Honda, Acura, Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Infiniti, MB or BMW)
then
engine is refined
else
engine is not refined
endif
I think the base MKS 3.7 has more engine noise than it should - more than a '10 MKZ. Again, I have no objection to the quality of the sound - just the quantity. I look forward to the sound of a twin turbo MKS, though. They even have a tube that runs from the air intake up to the passenger compartment to enhance the sound- like the new Mustang. If I don't like it, I will plug that tube, though!
The MKS already has the structural enhancements that the 2010 Taurus is getting. Other than some engine noise from the 3.7, the MKS is a very quiet car and I think the suspension tuning is about right, considering its mission. While totally worthless to me, "park assist" will be available. I guess that trumps adjustable pedals from a technology viewpoint.
I think rather than gripe about what the MKS doesn't have (yet) that we should applaud Ford for not holding back on the Taurus features. In the past that would not have happened. That's a good sign. Ford is priority 1 right now, Lincoln is second and Mercury is only getting crumbs. Which is the right way to do it.
About.car:com review of the 2010 Lincoln MKZ
This is going to stir things up a bit.
:shades:
Also, some posters have waxed royally about the jukebox thing. I still like the changer but, I'm open minded. Supposedly, this thing can house 16 downloaded CDs. I'm not sure what the benefit is if your collection is extensive (I have over 400 CDs). What happens to the other 384+? Seems like I can only load them one at a time after the intial 16 so, essentially, it's still only a single play. I'm not trying to bash the system at this point, I'm just trying to understand it. Can someone direct me to a website?
At this point, I'm no longer considering a 2010 MKZ, however, a little knowledge can't hurt. And who knows. If I can get through this CD thing and Lincoln offers a dressup option for the ugly all black console, I might change my mind.
So what do you think of the article posted above?
I get a lot of Ford/Lincoln information from the link below. I am not nearly the audiophile that akirby or you are but here is a quote from the information sheet on the MKZ:
In addition, the system features a 10 GB hard drive jukebox, allowing Lincoln owners to store up to 2,400 favorite music tracks.
Somewhere else on the media ford site, it mentions 150 hours of music can be stored. In any case, if you have 6 CDs loaded in a 6 disc changer and you own 394 more, wouldn't that present the same issue as you describe in your post?
http://media.ford.com/brand.cfm?make_id=2593
I'm planning on getting a 2010 and I really want to like the MKZ more than I do right now. My Zephyr has been the most dependable and durable car I've ever owned.
I make no claim to being an expert on in-car entertainment. It sounds like you are far more of an audio buff than I am but for my simple needs, I thought the jukebox feature was a big step up from carrying around CDs. Of course, I usually just listen to talk radio......
http://www.gracenote.com/
At first I thought you could record songs from Sirus radio however the record option only applies to CD's. I am not sure where the 16 cd number is coming from. Basically you put a CD in the drive, select the tracks you want to record and it copies them off the CD and onto the Jukebox. The CD could contain regular .cda stuff or mp3's including play lists you have created on the disc. As long as you have space in the Jukebox you can put all the tracks you want there.
Once the tracks are in your jukebox you can create play lists for them. As for accessing them you have a ton of options:
Play all tracks, play list, play genre, play artist, play album, etc. While driving you can access all of this stuff via voice commands such as play Bob dylan. Or you can say search genre, search album, search artist, search track. You can even use a 'refine' command after whatever your initial search results came up. So if you said search jazz and then a list of jazz came up you could say 'refine artist Paul Hardcastle' and his tracks will come up and then you could say 'refine album Hardcastle 5' and the tracks from that come up without you touching a button.
If the 10 gig is not enough than Sync allows you to plug into the USB port any media device. I have a 2 terabyte device that fits into the compartment by the driver seat! Whatever you plug in SYNC starts indexing all of the media and playlist files contained on it. Once the indexing is done all of the commands referenced above via voice are availiable or you can touch screen them. Lots of the commands can be touched by the passenger also.
For us ole-timers who cannot remember which Hendix song is playing you can even ask 'whats playing' and it will read the metadata tags and tell you.
Supported media files are mp3, wma, wav, and aac.
If you don't have USB flash drives or devices, plug in a Ipod, Zune or any other media player and again everything is indexed including existing playlist you have on the device.
Also if you have a USB port phone charger just plug it in and off charging you go. Or you can always just use your home phone charger because in the rear you have a real standard 120 volt outlet for your laptop or phone.
Sync will also create new playlists on the fly if you want. If something is playing just say 'create similar playlist' and off the indexer will go.
If you still need a music fix start streaming music frm your bluetooth enabled phone.
If you get bored of just audio stimulation put in the concert DVD and watch that. When you are stopped you get the video and audio. Once you start moving you just get the audio!
In my opinion in this area this system is a 'homerun'. Now if we can just get the Washington Nationals to do the same this season I will really be happy.
As for the car, downtown yesterday at night and as the valet brought it out folks were saying stuff like, 'wow, did not know Mercury had a hybrid, and it looks like a real car'.
Soooo.........6 cds or 150 cds plus one in the disc slot. Hmmm.......that's a tough one.
About the article on the MKZ. I have no doubt that there are areas that the MKZ has improved (ride, quietness, performance) and it is probably on a par with the ES in many ways. Overall, I'm sure it is nicer than my Zephyr. A few things bother me. One is the gas mileage. It's not so much that it decreased 1 mpg; it's more the fact that it decreased at all. I just think the proper evolution would be to increase gas mileage when you tweak a car. The 17.5 gallon fuel tank also bothers me. My weekly work commute is over 500 miles and an extra gallon or two would really be nice. The other things pertain to the interior. It's an improvement but, for what it's supposed to be, it could be better. A nicer steering wheel, some wood on the console, a wood shifter and for sure, rear air vents. And the real frustrating thing is that these items are not high dollar items - they're mere pennies relative to the price of the car. They're a bunch of little things that collectively contribute to the definition of a "luxury" car. At least offer some of these things as interior enhancement options. I think correcting these "little" things could help change the pervading perception of Lincoln and help sell some cars! Check out the ES and CTS interiors.
The interior design is fine and I think they just need to add some wood to the center stack and make some slight upgrades. I bought a Fusion rather than a Zephyr back in 2005 just because I didn't like the interior. I think the new one is a lot better design wise. Of course that's just my opinion.