Ford Motor Co. moves from pre-production to officially begin building the 2006 Ford Fusion, Lincoln Zephyr and Mercury Milan today, Aug. 1, at its plant in Hermosillo, Mexico. The plant had been down for six weeks during the changeover.
I've been reading posts, as well as some articles in different magazines about the Zephyr. I see that it'll have a 210 HP 3.0, or something close to that. A while back I think I asked you about the 3.5 being ready for the Zephyr, or whichever car will get it first. Will we have to wait until the spring, or later, for the new engine?? I'm almost positive you gave me a ballpark as far as the date, but I'm old, and I forgot. Any new info will be appreciated..........thanks, John
Ant may have better data but the reports have been that the Zephyr will get it first for the 2007 models and it's still up in the air whether the standard Fusion/Milano will get it.
When is Ford going to move toward the new calculations for HP and TQ? I dont believe any of the current figures are SAE certified, and it seems only GM, Toyota, and Honda are moving toward the new standard....although the engines havent changed at all, most have lost a few hp here and there, and I'd love to see what the Duratec 3.0L REAL figures are.
As Akirby said, Zephyr gets it first (by a few months) then the Milan/Fusion receive it. Although, that can always change depending on various other factors.
Alpha,
All depends upon the application for the 3.0L Duractec, there's various versions as you know. The Mustang V8 for example, has consistantly measured higher HP/TQ than what advertised (315-320HP). There are some vehicles already following SAE. Although I personally dislike this, 221, 193, 201, 157, 292 that some vehicles are sporting...I prefer more rounded 225, 200, 205, 160, 300 numbers....
"But Twork said Ford does not expect significant drop-offs in horsepower as the new test is phased in. When Ford unveiled its midsize Fusion sedan in January, it projected 210 horsepower. When it was tested under SAE's official protocol, the engine received a 221 horsepower rating, Twork said."
As it turns out, it was toyota and honda playing the "HP" game. Ford has been conservative and understating ever since the Cobra rating gaffe.
Yes, it's going to be interesting to hear comments on how even the larger Toyota 3.3L V6 really makes 210HP, while that "crude and unrefined" smaller Duratec 3.0L does 221HP...
Lincoln has finally made a link featuring the 2006 Zephyr on there website.
Click the Link go under vehicles on the upper right side of the screen, you'll see the 2006 Zephyr. It allows you to play with the colors and tells you a bunch of stuff about the car.
"it's going to be interesting to hear comments on how even the larger Toyota 3.3L V6 really makes 210HP, while that "crude and unrefined" smaller Duratec 3.0L does 221HP... "
The answer will be the conspiracy: Detroit bribed government to come up with new HP protocol. And there still is mighty Hyundai Sonata...
So Detroit bribed the government? ... then suddenly the protocol was changed from one year to another to make the foreign brands look bad, when realistically the SAE has been the standards by which many others measures their figures ? Is that what your stating?...
Not to mention that some of these offending manufacturer's have other vehicles in their brands which they have tested and reported correct using SAE method numbers as well ...
I've been checking many articles, as well as posts here concerning the supposed HP for the Zephyr. Even on a few of Ford's articles there is a difference in HP. I read something the other night in a Lincoln article that conflicted itself as far as the proper numbers. On one page it says 201 HP, a few pages ahead, it says 221 HP. It's not only confusing, it's aggravating trying to get the right answers. Ant, can you give us a heads up on what the real deal will be? The car, along with the Milan and Fusion, looks to be a nice trio, and I hope they live up to all the hype. Most of us remember last year's "Year of the Car", and the problems that 201 HP caused in the 500/Montego. I'll wait for some flaming from certain members here, but I like the attention.......... :P
I too have seen various reports that the F/M/Z's were supposed to get 200HP. This was an assumption by various publications believing that because it traditionally has made 200HP since it's debut in '96, that it would carry over into these vehicles. When the vehicles were officially released at the autoshows, Ford made mention that it would have around 210HP, and they carried that (safe number) for awhile. They didn't wish to over-promise on the numbers. This pertains mainly to the Mustang Cobra of a few years back. Set numbers were expected, but last minute retrofitting of exhaust components yielding lower HP results without realizing it, placed into production without retesting again... and we all know what became of that.
In the case of the F/M/Z, everything went according to plan and before production, 221HP was realized instead.
Now that the story broke that some foreign automakers have been overstating their horsepower (something I have hinted about in the past in other forums and no one believe me... :P ), the 221HP is REAL according to SAE standards, while others were using a method that would overstate their numbers. Notice how the Mazda6 dropped this year to 210HP.
What's wrong with the name? I guess the fact that so many people have trouble with it is due to the sad state of education in the humanities, and liberal arts in general in the U. S. of A. Can't anyone pick up classical allusions, or even allusion to 20th century American history? Jeez!
I don't agree with your 2nd, 3rd & 4th point, scooter, kinda funny actually. But what they were thinking, was about a heritage name, that was given to the "starter Lincoln" back in the 30's. Problem is, not many of us know that anymore.
The 2006 Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln Zephyr mid-sized car models began shipping from an assembly plant in Hermosillo, Mexico, this week, according to Steve Lyons a Ford VP. They should start trickling into dealer showrooms in the next week or two.
Er....I'm with scooter on this one. The Mark was, and always should be a luxury coupe, or at least a sport sedan. Not a truck. Navigator LT, is what I would have named it.
I would have picked something that does not start with Z. I would have picked something that had more than one vowel. I would have picked something that more than 10% of the population could pronounce. I would have picked a name that was not recycled from a miserable car from 25 years ago which was named after an obscure car from 50 years before that.
How about the Lincoln "Mexican Mazda Deluxe"? At least that would have been honest.
Please, stop complaining about the name. Unless you can actually suggest a better name for the vehicle (not Mexican Mazda Deluxe) don't say anything.
Zephyr. Why do you find that so impossible to pronounce? Let me help you out, you pronounce it Zeffir.
At least Zephyr is easier to pronounce that something like Scion or even Hyundai. Some say Hun-dai, others say Hi-yundai.
And come on, the Zephyr is way more than a fancy Mazda 6 or Ford Fusion. Different styling, interior, material quality, options. The engine may be from the Fusion, but if the Edmunds Fusion First Drive is any indication, it should be no problem.
Hmmm, I would not a problem with that decision - but then, price isn't an object with me, when I want something. I'd rather spend more for what I really want, than save money and get less than I desire.
The size will likely be comparable. But the Lincoln will have more luxury features - which I like. So, I would buy the Lincoln, hands down, regardless of cost difference, and I expect the Lincoln to cost $10,000 more than the 500.
Are you confused? The Zephyr is based on the Mazda6, not the Volvo. It is much smaller than the Five Hundred, and is even smaller than the Taurus. It starts at less than $30k, and offers only six options. Fully equipped, it is less than $35k.
Perhaps you mean the yet to be announced Lincoln version of the Five Hundred?
I don't buy into the whole "Y" is a consonant game when it comes to naming something that one actually hopes to sell. When it comes to betting the farm on naming something like a fancy Mazda, I'm strictly an A-E-I-O-U kind of guy. I also think that names that require a pronunciation guide should tend to be DOA. How about this one: "Lincoln Mazdito" It reflects the Japanese/Mexican origin, as well as the diminutive size of the car. At least the Mark LT now has some company on the worst names list.
Ahh, yes, "Merkur"; another excellent name that required pronunciation training.
Actually, both of the consumers who bought Scorpios got a car with a decent model name. Ford had just come out with the Taurus and then the Scorpio. Luckily the Merkur line died before we got the "Sagittarius" or better yet, the "Cancer".
My pronunciation skills are apparently better than your reading skills since I never said I can't say it. What I said was that it's stupid to name a vehicle an obscure, unattractive looking name that requires explanation.
Did you see the Edmund's comment in the Future Vehicles section:
"Lincoln's choices for this car's name and engine could conspire to prevent this vehicle from making a big splash in the entry-luxury segment."
The name may be different, but it'll be interesting to reconvene here in ten years to discuss how the result was different. . .or not.
Merkur, LS, Zephyr (& I lived in Grand Junction -- the Colorado Zephyr was a pretty big deal there) . . .hide and watch.
The Merkur & LS have already gone down the toilet. Even though I'm shopping other cars for my next, I'll be following the Zephyr closely. I'm not sure many others will.
Most people don't care about the history behind the name and anybody with an eighth grade education can pronounce it. The car will either sell or not sell based on it's physical attributes and price. Get over it.
Edmunds - the same folks who purposely ignored a known TSB that fixed tranny problems in an early LS just so they could complain about it a bit longer, couldn't find the battery in the LS (it's in the trunk) and who didn't understand why a change in engine stroke would affect the displacement. Automotive authorities they're not.
-Product names do not matter and are irrelevant to a product's success. -Because of a vehicle review several years ago, Edmunds has proved they know nothing and their opinions are invalid. -Zephyr is a lovely looking name. Words with Z and Y are underused. -No one will ever say it "Zee-fire", "Zy-Fur", "Zee-fur", "Zep-her" or "Zep-hire"
It must be a tremendous burden possessing such omniscience.
- Only if they have negative connotations or are hard to pronounce. Zephyr does not fit either of those categories. - Yes - I agree - Nobody who can afford to buy one
I simply do not believe that people looking to buy this car will be swayed one way or the other by the name. And since neither theory can be proven until sales figures are announced why don't we just wait a few months?
Comments
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/features/805thx/
~alpha
As Akirby said, Zephyr gets it first (by a few months) then the Milan/Fusion receive it. Although, that can always change depending on various other factors.
Alpha,
All depends upon the application for the 3.0L Duractec, there's various versions as you know. The Mustang V8 for example, has consistantly measured higher HP/TQ than what advertised (315-320HP). There are some vehicles already following SAE. Although I personally dislike this, 221, 193, 201, 157, 292 that some vehicles are sporting...I prefer more rounded 225, 200, 205, 160, 300 numbers....
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm
"But Twork said Ford does not expect significant drop-offs in horsepower as the new test is phased in. When Ford unveiled its midsize Fusion sedan in January, it projected 210 horsepower. When it was tested under SAE's official protocol, the engine received a 221 horsepower rating, Twork said."
As it turns out, it was toyota and honda playing the "HP" game. Ford has been conservative and understating ever since the Cobra rating gaffe.
Click the Link go under vehicles on the upper right side of the screen, you'll see the 2006 Zephyr. It allows you to play with the colors and tells you a bunch of stuff about the car.
Lincoln site
The answer will be the conspiracy: Detroit bribed government to come up with new HP protocol. And there still is mighty Hyundai Sonata...
Not to mention that some of these offending manufacturer's have other vehicles in their brands which they have tested and reported correct using SAE method numbers as well ...
Actually for anyone doing the research on it, it's SAE standard J1349 which describes testing procedures and what's allowed, and not allowed, etc.
In the case of the F/M/Z, everything went according to plan and before production, 221HP was realized instead.
Now that the story broke that some foreign automakers have been overstating their horsepower (something I have hinted about in the past in other forums and no one believe me... :P ), the 221HP is REAL according to SAE standards, while others were using a method that would overstate their numbers. Notice how the Mazda6 dropped this year to 210HP.
"Hey Bill, how about a name that most people can't pronounce, that reminds people of that miserable Mercury version of the Fairmont"
"Well, If we call it the Zephyr, the Mark LT will no longer have the worst name in the industry"
"Let's see, the name looks odd, has a negative connotation and is unpronouncable--Let's do it!"
I'd guess the same people who named the Mark LT also named this; and they deserve the same fate.
began shipping from an assembly plant in Hermosillo, Mexico, this week, according
to Steve Lyons a Ford VP. They should start trickling into dealer showrooms in the next week or two.
I would have picked something that had more than one vowel.
I would have picked something that more than 10% of the population could pronounce.
I would have picked a name that was not recycled from a miserable car from 25 years ago which was named after an obscure car from 50 years before that.
How about the Lincoln "Mexican Mazda Deluxe"? At least that would have been honest.
Zephyr. Why do you find that so impossible to pronounce? Let me help you out, you pronounce it Zeffir.
At least Zephyr is easier to pronounce that something like Scion or even Hyundai. Some say Hun-dai, others say Hi-yundai.
And come on, the Zephyr is way more than a fancy Mazda 6 or Ford Fusion. Different styling, interior, material quality, options. The engine may be from the Fusion, but if the Edmunds Fusion First Drive is any indication, it should be no problem.
From Car and Driver Fusion review:
"the Aisin-Warner F21 gearbox shifts smoothly and intelligently."
Ford and GM are working on a new FWD 6 speed automatic that will replace the Aisin boxes in another couple of years.
I have no idea which will cost more by the time both are available so equipped.
What did you mean?
But the Lincoln will have more luxury features - which I like.
So, I would buy the Lincoln, hands down, regardless of cost difference, and I expect the Lincoln to cost $10,000 more than the 500.
Perhaps you mean the yet to be announced Lincoln version of the Five Hundred?
I also think that names that require a pronunciation guide should tend to be DOA.
How about this one:
"Lincoln Mazdito" It reflects the Japanese/Mexican origin, as well as the diminutive size of the car.
At least the Mark LT now has some company on the worst names list.
Actually, both of the consumers who bought Scorpios got a car with a decent model name.
Ford had just come out with the Taurus and then the Scorpio. Luckily the Merkur line died before we got the "Sagittarius" or better yet, the "Cancer".
Did you see the Edmund's comment in the Future Vehicles section:
"Lincoln's choices for this car's name and engine could conspire to prevent this vehicle from making a big splash in the entry-luxury segment."
Merkur, LS, Zephyr (& I lived in Grand Junction -- the Colorado Zephyr was a pretty big deal there) . . .hide and watch.
The Merkur & LS have already gone down the toilet. Even though I'm shopping other cars for my next, I'll be following the Zephyr closely. I'm not sure many others will.
Edmunds - the same folks who purposely ignored a known TSB that fixed tranny problems in an early LS just so they could complain about it a bit longer, couldn't find the battery in the LS (it's in the trunk) and who didn't understand why a change in engine stroke would affect the displacement. Automotive authorities they're not.
-Product names do not matter and are irrelevant to a product's success.
-Because of a vehicle review several years ago, Edmunds has proved they know nothing and their opinions are invalid.
-Zephyr is a lovely looking name. Words with Z and Y are underused.
-No one will ever say it "Zee-fire", "Zy-Fur", "Zee-fur", "Zep-her" or "Zep-hire"
It must be a tremendous burden possessing such omniscience.
- Only if they have negative connotations or are hard to pronounce. Zephyr does not fit either of those categories.
- Yes
- I agree
- Nobody who can afford to buy one
I simply do not believe that people looking to buy this car will be swayed one way or the other by the name. And since neither theory can be proven until sales figures are announced why don't we just wait a few months?