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Security was the worst at Newark, they made me take off my shoes, pull out my laptop so it could be scanned, etc, etc. Compared to that, security into London and then Nice was a breeze (I drove from Nice to San Remo in a new A4 2.0T TDI rental). In all cases though you're going to want to arrive at the airport at least 2hrs before your flight, and try to be at the gate at least 45 minutes before. If security isnt a headache, customs will be.
Now that I think of it, I saw at least a few JGCs as well, not really sure why they would possibly want them. Not too many A2s, but plenty of A3s, the BMW 318i hatch, and gobs of M-B A-class. A large % were diesel in San Remo as well, which definitely makes sense. It was about 100 Euros ($130) to completely fill the A4, so I was happy for every extra mpg I could get over a gasoline 2.0T. My Audi was a tiptronic, with shift paddles on the steering wheel. Not much of a point with the diesel, since you're into the red at 4500rpm, shifting for yourself isnt much fun.
If you had said you prefer the shiny look, fine. If you had said you just don't like wood trim, fine. ...
Ditto; I agree!! Looks are subjective - likes and dislikes are subjective - period. Wood quality is objective - period. I haven't even chosen a car yet (narrowed it down to two - RL or M35) but I am tired of what's mostly RL owners bashing the M35 interior's QUALITY. I have asked for objective testable examples where the RL has a higher quality interior and no one has yet to provide a single objective example
I have test driven the RL and the M35 extensively and find reasons to be imnpressed by both - including the looks of both! However in my opinion the heavily laquered wood in the RL looks amazingly like the plood in my MDX :confuse: Of course I like my MDX so thats OK. But the wood in M35 looks better in my opnion.
Perhaps Consumer Reports should have tested the finish on the wood samples :shades:
If your looking for a comfortable, quiet ride, a stellar NAV system, and flat cornering and ripping acceleration arent of critical importance, the GS300 could be a very good choice. The M is a polar opposite of the GS. It has SPORT branded on to its face, so that everyone can see. The GS has a little sport tatoo on the shoulder, so that it cannot be seen under a work shirt.
The wood in the M is a matte finish, no gloss. If you're the type that thinks gloss = class, then yes, the M's wood will probably look cheap. I think both finishes are fine. I prefer the wood with light leather, and the aluminum with dark leather. I do wish though that Infiniti would offer the third black laquer trim that is available in Japan, that is my favorite of the three.
I didnt have any problems with a jumpy throttle in the M. I thought both the V6 and V8 were great, but the M45 Sport is definitely the star of the show. If you're going to go that way, you have to go all out. Now all they need to do is offer a Nismo M45 Sport with a supercharger and 450hp+.
Pretty much the same stuff as eveyone else on these two, but very well written. Lexus has got to look forward to end of comparo season, meanwhile the merciless spanking continues!
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102927
What I do is look at ALL evaluations and then extract from each what is important to me rather than aver that Consumer Reports is more objective than the other evaluations, or that Motor Trend or Car and Driver is better. Each source contributes information aimed at better informing the buying/driving public.
So, as to which is the better evaluative process is not as critical as the fact that each comparison done provides "food for thought" or information that assists one in selecting the car that best fits his/her needs.
That's what I did when I got my 06 530i. It didn't receive all the rave reviews the M35/45 or Acura or Audi received, but it helped me test drive those vehicles that were tested. I agreed in some cases, with the evaluations, and disagreed in others. Remember, people buying cars have different needs, and many of them are subjective, i.e., style, comfort, room, power, handling, etc.
If an individual buying a new car was completely objective in his/her motives/needs, then we would be buying cars based upon mags. In my case, I bought my car based upon information reported, and then made my decision after driving them.
By the way, I test drove a Vigor a long time ago. I don't see why it didn't sell better.
I would not be happy with a front-wheel drive vehicle or an AWD vehicle. This eliminates several from the group. Next, the M seats for the driver were just too harsh for me as I have a bad back. The GS300 was cramped for my left foot - almost didn't know where to put it as it was so uncomfortable. Thus, I was left with limited choices.
Yes, all the LPS's are great vehicles, but not great for everyone. That's why there are several out there and thank goodness for that.
Agree completely. The original Legend was a great car, and for its day, was quite sporty. MUCH more so than the '96-'04 RL. I think in '96 Acura tried to position the RL as a bargain LS400. Infiniti tried the same thing with the '97 Q"45". Neither of them had particularly good results, as Lexus makes their own bargain LS400, called the ES.
I think those original Acura's had some spunk, and that the company lost their way a bit in the mid '90s. I also didnt like how cheap Acura interiors became. I think the '99 TL is their low point, it was barely any better than the Accord, and the black wood in the Type S TL and CL was horrible. With the Type S cars and now the A-specs, I think Acura is getting back to where they should be, though I still think Acura should offer the hottest JDM Honda models, such as the Integra Type R, instead of the diluted RSX Type S. Honda has this strange aversion to bringing any Type Rs to the US. Do they really believe TSX owners wouldnt want more horsepower (Accord Euro R)? In any case, what Acura has now is way better than the bland-mobiles they had 10 years ago. After 10 years, the RL is finally a truly competitive car, which unfortunately still cant be said of the Q45.
The new found strength of all three Japanese luxury marquees will really put pressure on the entrenched players, and pressure is always good for the industry as a whole.
I suspect most everyone on this forum recalls the Vigor- in fact it is an accomplishment that we have not forgotten it!
For those of us not in a huge hurry to but a new car, has anyone heard if Infiniti is planning significant changes for the M for 2007 (ie the passenger seat)?
Dude I've been a member here since January '01 and I do not appreciate your sarcasm :confuse: You hate CR and that is fine.
I agree with you. As I stated in my orignal post the vehement dislike of CR and the false accusations of their lack of a quality test facility and trained engineers at least got me to thinking. I am officially on record that ALL magazine comparos (including CR) are useful and provide credible information (as well as subjective opinions). But the CR bashers got me to questioning just how credible the others are :confuse: I know for a fact that CR has a modern test facility and highly trained engineers (despite the false claims to the contrary). But do the others have quality facilites as well? I did a quick search with no results.
My original question is still unanswered. Does anyone have a link that describes Car & Drivers test facility? Or Road & Track? Or Automobile? Or Edmunds? I had always assumed that these dedicated automobile mags had state of the art facilites. Or do they? Thanks to the CR haters for opening my mind some :shades:
Since others have brought up the issue of credibilty of the comparos we all love to analyze and discuss, I thought it might be interesting to at least look at credibility. It is not my intention to offend anyone, although some folks do seem to dispise some of the magazines.
http://automobilemag.com/test_data/index3.html
Still nothing on Car & Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend :confuse:
We really need to get back to the cars themselves in this discussion, though.
The car mags are FOR PROFIT ventures that strive to appeal to their readership. They get their revenues through subscriptions and advertisement (predominantly from the car manufacturers). Their articles will indeed be biased in the sense they are trying to appeal to the demographics and interests of their readers, and their advertisers.
Consumers Union is a NON-PROFIT organization that generates revenues through subscriptions and donations. They must appeal to their readership like the for-profit car rags, and their articles will also be skewed by OPINIONS. However, CR also receives significant donations from trial lawyers, safety advocates, and certain constituents like medical professionals. Their focus will naturally be tilted toward consumer protectionism and safety. Although they accept no advertising per se, they still directly and indirectly appeal to their greatest donors. And these happen to be trial lawyers and safety advocates.
Okay, let's move on to other topics.
Definitely, since they don't accept advertising.
Still, there's no way of really proving whether the non-quantitative portions of their reviews are any more or less reliable than anyone else's.
There may be a more appropriate discussion in News & Views about CR and other review mags - there used to be, but it might be archived. If so, you can ask pf_flyer to reopen it, or start a new one, if you want.
I've made my choice, I can say after research and spending a lot of time in all of the cars in this forum, the Infiniti M35 is my choice, so coincidentally, I agree with CR.
Have fun!
I like the wood on the M and it was one of the factors in my purchase. I have never been fond of the very shiny wood finishes on most LPS. That said, the wood trim on my M was very dull until I polished it with a good quality wood polish - this gave it a much richer look,still not shiny. I've gotten a lot of comments on the interior, most, but not all positive. One Bimmer driver did have an "is this real?" comment.
As to the overall feel of the interior, I think cars in this category should make a statement and thus fit different drivers tastes. I expect cars in the 20-30k range have more generic interiors. In this group vive la differance!
never seen anybody else have that. i find high gloss extremely plasticky in looks
Not really. Those glossy wood interiors are not to my liking. But to each their own.
ksso
If you look at cars like the new Toyota Avalon, it's obviously plastic made to look like wood.
I like non shiny wood too...but if you look close at the M35's wood, if I can call it that, it looks like plastic...I'd rather have plastic that looked a lot like wood than wood that looked like cheap plastic. But, it's not just the wood that cheapens the M35 for me. How come they have the cheap looking straight handles that are leather covered to close doors from inside. You know what those will look like in a year...espcially in the light color...same for the shifter knob. It's not just the wood that makes the Audi's interior on the A6 or A8 look great...it's the combination of wood, aluminum and leather inserts that complete the beauty of what is the interior of an Audi. Door handles are aluminum or at least they look that way. I think the interior of the M35 is great looking in the aluminum interior dash you get with the Sport package...they should offer it as an option on all cars...not just sport.
Full disclosure first: I work for Bose ... in the division responsible for Audi and Infinity (the car brand) audio systema. Previously, I worked for one of the most well respected audio consultancies in the worlds (concert hall design, noise control, sound quality, etc.). Maybe I know something about sound. One of my 3 home systems is built up around Aerial Acoustics speakers, which I don't think sound too shabby.
I have a suggestion.
Go price out a midrange driver for a B&W 802, or a Revel F32, or a (pick your brand of high-end speaker). Now consider that the price of that one midrange could be not so different from what the automaker spent on all the speakers in the whole car. Then add 1 woofer, and consider that just maybe the price of your two drivers is more than all the car's speakers plus the amplifier, plus the DSP processor, plus wiring harness, etc.. Consider that a telephone from B&O (which has a LONG history of producing truely high end audio ) might possibly cost more than an automaker pays for their entire premium audio system.
Try it another way. If an automaker decided use 4xtweeter, 4xmidranges, 3xmid/tweeters, and 2xwoofers of the same quality used in a high end speaker, and then they added an 8 channel amplier of mid/high end quality, what do you think you'd have to pay for that premium sound option? Now add some DSP horsepower that compares to something like a Meridian DSP 5500 speaker system. That set of parts, would cost you something like $10,000. Are you prepared to pay that for premium sound in your next car?
Try it from the other angle. Let's say car maker "X" charges $1000 for their premium sound option. What do you think their markup is? If it is anything like home audio ... maybe their cost was $400 for that system. What can you buy for $400 these days? Can that gear survive 85 degrees C summer days, freezing, humidity, shock and vibration, dust, water, etc. and still work after 3 years?
So, it's not a stretch to see that automakers can't spend much money on premium audio, relative to what you'd have to spend to get a decent 5.1 system at home. Judged in that light, I think Bose and it's worthy competitors are doing pretty darn well.
Cheers,
B.
Even if the aluminum is fake? What's the difference, fake hot stamped aluminum or fake plastic wood? I think if it looks convincing, and it looks tasteful, it will fool even the most discriminating among us. Plastic wood is used on some very high end furniture, and very few customers know it.
Getting back to cars, I think for the few hundred or at most 1000 bux that you pay for a premium sound system are entirely worth it. The only exclusion will be the harmon kardon tin-pots that crackle in my wife's bmw.... it is the boomiest, ugliest sounding premium system i've every paid for... overall if you see, the mark levinson's in lexus or even the bose or non-bose systems is acura are absolutely UP there...
i personally think the german car's are a little behind on this front.
my person 2 cents.
ksso
from what i read, anytime a manufacturer hits 60K sales of hybrid, their customers credit will start sliding down a curve along a formula. so i guess honda and ford have some more time to entice customers into their shop for hybrids, but toyota will be losing the tax credit luster too. did anyone read the law in detail and get the same impression on the hybrid tax credit? Basically the way I read it, this credit was an incentive to the "other" manufacturers who are sitting on the sidelines without any real hybrids on the market. to me that is a smart move to get more manufacturers to commit to hybrids and really "broaden" the hybrid movement rather than just rewarding the few smart ones who anyway did it on their own.
this reminds me of the faux-pas in Arizona some years ago. I wish i was smart enough back then to drop money on a 5K electric golf cart and get a 5K tax credit instead of spending zillions on the 7.1 surround system. It took an entire year for AZ to roll back the mistake they made but i'd scores of neighbors who bought golf carts and took entire 5K credits on taxes (not deductions)... bless scottsdale... i miss it.
ksso
Interstingly my wife's bmw's engine oil cap has been saying "castrol" to me since we bought it in the summer of 2003.
seems like ford got a lot of flap for their announcement on co-branding with BP, but others have been quietly doing it for a while now.
Depending on what part of the country I am in, I tend to develop an almost superstitious belief that certain gas stations/companies give me better HP or mileage. Do any of you get religious like that? (and i'm an aethist)....
When I lived down in scottsdale AZ, i was a fan of cheveron and tried to get gas at a certain station on scottsdale road up north of 101.
in my distant life in NJ, i remember i used to get my gas at a mobil station on route 10 just off 287 in parsipanny.
lately, i try to get my gas at a BP station and interestingly, I find they are cheapest compared to the surrounding shell's, mobils, exxons and GETTY too???? I find it unusual because I've seen BP's in most other places at price par with the mobil's and exxons.
i wonder if my cars care more or less what they are fed...
ksso
What's your assessment of this sytem, the price paid for it, etc? I'd be very interested in your opinion.
MLS
Didja take a look at this website (in the post immediately preceeding the one you answered): http://toptiergas.com/
It says cars do in fact care. The following are recommended companies:
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
I haven't compared mileage/performance as it relates to brand of gas (I pretty much stick with Shell), but I derfinitely have found that my bimmer really, really likes to go fast. If I do too much local stop-and-go driving, it gets sluggish and starts hesitating more on acceleration (and of course the mileage plummets). The best remedy is to get on the highway and open it up.
Subjectivism run rampant If you can call it that? :confuse: Come on, you don't have to like it but it is OBVIOUSLY real wood and not plood :sick: To me (I admit subjective here) the "real" wood in the BMW 5-series looks just like the "real" wood in the Acura RL which looks just like the plood in my MDX. So how am I to basically know that the BMW uses real wood since it looks like plood? Just because its a BMW I guess :confuse:
Thats the problem with subjectivism - its subjective (atta boy yogi). You don't like the matte finish in the M35 and thats OK for YOU, but you will never convine ME that it looks fake, because it does not :shades:
What makes Shell different from Chevron different from Exxon different from etc etc are the additives. Proprietary additives are blended into the basic stock (the primary, but not only, additives are octane boosters, oxygenators, and detergents). In my opinion the most important additive is the detergents. For example other than higher octane the biggest difference between Shell Regular (87) and Shell V-Power (91+) are the detergents to keep you engine "cleaner" Or at least thats what Shell claims. From a legal marketing perspective I have no doubt that Shell V-Power is different than Shell Regular, but I am not sure V-Power will keep my engine significantly cleaner that Regular.
Top Tier gasolines have proven engine detergents in them and can be trusted (and recommended by auto makers), that is not to say that other gasolines will not keep your engine clean either.
As to the leather door handles and shift knob, I guess I don't understand the problem. Leather is far more warm and comfortable than plastic or wood for these gripped surfaces. Just as a leather-wrapped steering wheel is favored over plastic or wood wheels, it seems natural to put leather where you are going to be gripping surfaces.
The wood in my BMW 545i looks like real wood to me.
The wood in the M35/45 looked like cardboard to me.
Different strokes for different folks.
That was my point exactly :shades:
By the way the same goes for hearing too, thats why there is so much disagreement regarding sound systems. There is no accounting for personal taste - literally, we all have different tastes in foods.
Thats the problem with subjectivism - its subjective
plus specially in the wife's bmw, i think the glossy wood gets smudged so quickly, i hate to see that.... it's like kids, do you have any value of your dad's time spent in making sure there was a sparkle and shine?
hehe
ksso