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I think that is primarily the reason for the boost in sales this year, compared to previous years. About a third of 5 series sales are AWD models.
Twenty five years ago, Audi came up with and came out with the quattro concept. . .
In my "screaming voice in the wilderness" way, I found that was a fine German car with a secret weapon -- AWD.
Dr. Piech predicted that (essentially) "all LPS cars will eventually be offered as AWD vehicles" (paraphrased) for a litany of reasons he put forth that were somewhat to largely dismissed by most of the cars that would be or were competitive with Audi.
Piech always believed that AWD would be "the performance" cars of the present and moreso of the future.
Who knows if he knew it would be fully two plus decades before AWD in LPS cars almost became the price of entry -- I believe he was ahead of the times and he probably thought AWD would catch on more rapidly than it ultimately proved to do.
Mean time Audi drifted (in the US marketplace at least) and more or less hung around the periphery of what was and still often is called Premium Performance Cars, now we call them LPS cars here on edmunds.
Audi WAS (past tense) rare if not entirely unique in their approach. We know the players and we know who went down the FWD and RWD roads (or retained that approach); but, ultimately, Audi once almost alone is now one of the gang of AWD LPS cars.
I am quite happy with my Audi (all of them practically speaking.) Yet, they are hardly unique anymore and barely rare even in the overall mass of nameplates with ever more AWD variants offered with each turn of the calendar page.
I call it "squandering" their competitive advantage.
Yet, in the Fatherland, Audi outsells BMW -- but here in Vaspuciland BMW trounces Audi 3 to 1.
Audi needs to inject big time bucks into R&D to find something or many things that can be used to differentiate itself.
BMW will, ultimately, sell a huge minority of AWD cars or a small majority within this decade -- possibly, but I doubt it, a full blown majority of BMW's will be AWD this decade.
Audi, as it stands in the US, would have to combat this with what? Price?
Just some reflections from a long time Audi fan who wonders if some of the luster is losing its shine. . . . :confuse:
My car does NOT have paddle shifters.
I leave the car mostly in "S" mode to avoid these "smarter than you are" auto transmission tendencies to "delay downshifts" and therefore "lag" because they are often 100's of RPM's below their engine's torque sweet spot.
I have attempted to use tip mode -- I find it completely unsatisfying, a poor substitute for the real thing.
I think "S" mode typically does a better job than I would do in tip mode unless I was driving in a competition or something other than the public roads.
I come from a long line of auto trans haters -- my last car was a 2003 allroad 2.7T with 6spd manual, in fact. My wife has a 2005 BMW X3 stick and she lets me drive it from time to time.
The 6spd Audi Tip is THE BEST Audi Auto Trans I have ever had -- I'd give it a B+ and now at 10,000+ miles in "S" mode, perhaps an A-.
The BMW 530xi with the 6spd transmission would be a natural car to test drive to see how you find an LPS car that emphasizes performance over convenience.
I am very pleased with my Audi A6 3.2, despite what I have said. I resigned myself to an auto trans when, at the time, there was no AWD 5 from BMW.
My two choices were the Audi and the Infiniti M35X.
Of the two the Audi's 6spd feels "better" (to me) than the 5spd manu-matic in the Infiniti.
But it is still an auto.
"S" modes, mostly, mitigates the "old man's car" attitude these smarter than thou transmissions can impart.
Magic wand: DSG (probably).
My guess is that DSG will be offered and I will, at that time, forget about three pedal cars.
Of course, I'm driving a car 5 years older than yours, only sporting the 5-speed, and have no "S" mode to shift into.
I'm assuming that driving the 6-speed tip makes a HUGE improvement over the old 5-speed? One extra gear can make all the difference in the world.
At 70 MPH, the 2.7T is turning up 2500 RPM, does this compare favourably with your 6-speed?
To peat and repeat: this transmission coupled with the 3.2L V6 in this Audi is the best automatic transmission I personally have ever experienced.
It NOW has virtually no lag -- especially since I drive it in "S" mode.
The issue and some folks LIKE this, is that the transmission retains second gear when slowing down but NOT completely stopping a bit too long during those times when you may need modest to moderate acceleration. The engine seems to be "comfortable" creeping along, before a complete stop, in second gear.
A slight depression of the accelerator then produces virtually no pick up in speed. The sensation is that the car actually lags -- sort of the opposite sensation (if you have ever felt this) of pressing on the brake pedal and having a full system brake failure. In this extreme case, pressing the brake pedal with NO reduction in speed whatsoever feels as if the car accelerates when in reality it does not.
Tip lag may be at least partially a perception of a lag from the time you press the accelerator until there is actually the expected acceleration. What I almost always do when such a sensation happens is to press hard enough on the accelerator to cause a kick down into a lower gear which results in a lunge forward -- not cool.
In "S" mode, the transmission will downshift to the next lower appropriate gear a bit sooner, then when the slight call for acceleration is called for the car seems to accelerate "normally."
My last PREVIOUS Audi with a tip was a 2001 A6 4.2 -- "it trained me, I adapted to it." The tip lag COULD be induced much easier with that transmission for several reasons, number of gears, programming, 295 pound feet of torque and NO "S" mode. I replaced the 2001 A6 4.2 with a 2003 allroad 2.7T 6spd manual. The new A6's transmission is much much improved -- but for reasons that other folks probably can explain much better than I it is still a manumatic that "thinks" and it "thinks" it is smarter than a good driver with a decent manual.
It isn't.
It is for most folks brought up on automatics probably among the best there is and almost certainly better than what they had last. Perhaps only the Mercedes 7spd "tip" would be better. For my money, I'd bet the DSG, if it can be made to work with the A6 engine layout, torque, etc, would make most folks forget about both conventional automatic and manual transmissions.
I really like the Quattroporte, in terms of driving dynamics it embarrasses everything else in the class, including the 750i, and the interior is better than the A8 and the new Benz S. Its what the new XJ8's interior should have been. Really the only thing stopping me is concerns about reliability.
Generally you know I agree with this, but do you really think the Quattroporte's true competition is the S-Class/7-Series market instead of the M5/E55 segment? I think it kinda sits in between the two size classes in most ways. I like the interior too, with so many custom options available, but better than the new S-Class? In what way? Design/appearance?
You know I say go for it, you already have your perfectly reliable transportation car, the Quattroporte is just to awesome to be cut on reliability concerns when you have another car for that, of course IMO. What you be getting rid of the Jag for this?
M
I think the new S is more modern in terms of interior design, but the look and feel of the Quattroporte interior is just on another level from anything else in the $90-100K class. It compares with the Flying Spur.
I have no need for two big luxury cars. If I bought a Quattroporte, it would be the Lexus that would go.
I see, no argument from me there. I don't know how the new S "feels" just yet, but the Quattroporte's interior does have a unique feel that has exudes more individuality than any of the German cars. Germans never really could do interiors like the British or Italians, not even Audi which comes very close.
If I bought a Quattroporte, it would be the Lexus that would go. :surprise: :surprise:
I'm stunned. Really don't what to say to that.
M
If there were NO outside circumstances or influences (e.g. physical limitations, practical matters, need for prestige, etc.), would you all choose an LPS car? Let me make it easier. If it was just YOU, and you were guaranteed sunny skies and dry pavement, and you had no "baggage" (I'll leave that to your own interpretation...for me, it means luggage), and you were making a cross-country trip. What would you drive? I doubt that I would choose an LPS...maybe a Miata, Elise/Exige (if my back could take it), G35 coupe, or M3.
Edit: Thinking about it further...this is pretty much like asking what one would buy as a "third" or "extra" car.
I want a manual transmission, rear-wheel drive & enough room to carry my bicycle inside the vehicle, plus as much completely reliable luxury as I'm interested in using. I've given a cursory (or so) look at nine vehicles, and from these, three have emerged as favourites.
None are LPS, but all qualify as "entry-level" luxury. If you want full-up luxury, leave your requirement for a manual transmission at the door. The A6 used to be a contender, and the 5-series still is. Having owned a couple of Miatas and a number of other vehicles, light weight trumps "luxury." No 5 for me, and nothing else meets my objectives.
FWIW
My second choice would be a full-on, max everything - Cayenne (I assume sunny skies can also mean all the teething issues of "my" Cayenne would be history.)
= = = = =
Based on practical considerations, today, it would be a 530xi, followed by an Audi A6 followed by an Infiniti M35X followed by a Cadillac STS V8 AWD (if the price has come down to earth one way or another.)
The also-rans include the two CTSs (2.8 & 3.6), the X3, the A3 & A4 Avant & the Lexus I250.
BMW 540/545 - 4
A4/A6 Quattro, Acura RL, Infiniti G35, MB E500, VW Toaureg - 2 each
BMW 328, Infiniti FX35, Lexus LX470, Nissan Maxima - 1 each
25% came from BMW, 20% came from Infiniti/Nissan. Small poll and not highly scientific but interesting??
Now, only having read about the S8, which I assume is the SWB version of the A8, I assume the S8 is the child of the union of the RS4 and the A8L -- at this point given my AWD bias, I can think of nothing better to make the cross country trip that was part of the theoretical question.
Maybe a better answer "will be" the RS6 (as opposed to a possible S6.)
But given all the stuff I have access to, the S8, at the moment seems the one that I would prefer.
If I had zero need for a back seat, the RS4 would be a fantastic choice and truth be told, probably a better performer than the S8.
I weighed my response and at this moment, I stand by it.
But, I would hardly call a $100,000+ S8 "settling."
I guess I would have to be the billionaire next door, though to contemplate such an "acquisition."
While I am dreaming, though, the Bentley certainly seems to be, shall we say, "fulfilling."
The V10 in the S8, as I recall, isn't a turbo, BTW. :shades:
Someone on the high end lux thread was saying something about form follows function or maybe the other way around, but there is something about these two company's that really does it for me. I think Audi really has hit on the whole GT thing in the classic sense. An easy to drive fast sort of car that's very comfortable, yet handles just a hair off from BMW {did I just say that out loud?} With a very inviting interior. Anyway, it's nice to read someone else championing a very fine automobile maker. I hope they do the right things as far as advertising, to do a better job of spreading the kool-aid so to speak. Cheers to all. That S4 will be here soon enough...D :shades:
Here are some examples:
Infiniti M35 Journey Tech Package (Navigation, Sirius, Intelligent Cruise Control, Climate Control/car/seats,Park assist) $45,894
Infiniti M35 SPORT Same configuration as above, but with sport package $47,555
Infiniti M35X Same configuration as M35, but with AWD $48,185
Lexus GS300 with Navigation, Rear Camera, Park Assist, Climate Control, Heated/Cool Seats, Sirius, Intelligent Cruise $43,788
Lexus GS300 Same Configuration as above but adds Mark Levinson Sound System $45,212
Lexus GS 300 ALL Wheel Drive Same Configuration as GS300 $45,521
Lexus GS 300 ALL Wheel Drive Same as above, but with Mark Levinson Sound System $46,945
BMW 525i Automatic with Navigation, Climate Control, Heated Seats, Sirius, Park Assist, Premium Package, $48698
BMW 525i Automatic, Navigation, Climate Control, Heated Seats, Sirius, Park Assist, Premium Package Sport Package $50,518
BMW 525i Automatic to add Premium Sound to above two configurations add $1640. Eliminate Park Assist, deduct $600, Eliminate Heated Seats Cold Weather Package, deduct $685
BMW 530i Automatic, with Navigation, Climate Control, Heated Seats, Sirius, Park Assist, Premium Package $51,742
BMW 530i Automatic, Navigation, Climate Control, Heated Seats, Sirius, Park Assist, Premium Package Sport Package $53,837
BMW 530i to add Premium Sound to above two configurations add $1640. Eliminate Park Assist, deduct $600. Eliminate
Heated Seats Cold Weather Package, deduct $685
Audi A6 3.2AWD with Navigation, Climate Control, Heated Seats, Park Assist, Rear Camera, Premium Sound $50,429
Acura RL AWD, with Navigation, Park Assist, Climate Control, XM, Rear Camera, Heated Seats, Premium Sound $45,372
Acura RL AWD Sport, Navigation, Park Assist, XM,Climate Control, Rear Camera, Heated Seats, Intelligent Cruise, Premium Sound $48753
Acura TL FWD Automatic with Navigation, Climate Control, XM, Premium Sound, $33, 519
Some Great Choices: Which would you buy give the criteria of (1) Luxury/Sport (2) Prestige/Image (3) Future Resale Value, (4) Car that turns heads, (5) No buyers remorse, (6) Value. Please give your opinions.
(2) Prestige/Image, BMW 530 w/SP or Lexus GS
(3) Future resale value, BMW 530 w/SP
(4) Car that turns heads, BMW 530 w/SP (Black Sapphire/Auburn)
(5) No buyers Remorse, BMW 530 w/SP - yeehaw!!
(6) Value, Acura RL
lovemyclk answers are pretty much the same as mine. The only exceptions being.
2 prestige/image I would whack the Lexus and put the Audi in there. Lexus just doesn't do it for me, and prestige is very low on my list.
3 Time will tell but my guess is the Acura, and the Lexus will have excellent resale as well.
4 Although I would much rather drive/own the bimmer, the Lexus is a looker. {still could care less how a car looks for the most part.}
5 Wouldn't regret any except for the Lexus.
6 Value. What Acura does so well and ya gotta love it. They just make so much sense IMO
For the record, it's a tie for first with me between the Acura, and Audi. I'm sure I'm in the minority on that one....
1) Combination of Luxury and Sport: BMW 530i
2) Prestige/Image: BMW 530i
3) Future Resale Value: Lexus GS300
4) Car That Turns Heads: Infiniti M35
5) No Buyers Remorse: BMW 530i
6) Value: Acura TL
1a)Combination of Sport and Luxury: BMW 5's
1b)Biggest threat to the above: Infiniti M's
2) Prestige/Image: BMW 5's and Mercedes E's
3) Future Resale Value: Probably Japanese, not sure which
4) Car that turns heads: nothing Japanese
5) "No" buyers remorse: none of the above
5a)"Practically no" buyers remorse: apparently all of the above including the unmentioned STS
6) Value: at MSRP? Acura/Audi (hon mention M35X); at street price? Acura; lease deals? BMW (but flux is the name of this game.)
In many ways the Audi turns heads the most, but I don't think that is the kind of head turning that the original #4 above was referring to; although from the side the Audi is a looker; the front end is a love-hate affair though; the Japanese seem determined to make cars that either are copies or kind of frankenstein-ian (IMO.) Heck if you asked me, and I know you didn't, the Japanese cars make the Bangle designs look downright handsome.
-Paul
Acura RL:
Audi A6:
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-Paul
Infiniti M35x
-Paul
MB
No recent ones of the E Class on Edmunds.
The comparison review is rather interesting reading.
2005 AWD LPS Comparison.
-Paul
I have a BMW 545 and as I have said many times, the E60 looks better in person.
I have never seen an exterior shot of the Bangle 5 series that does it justice.
Thanks
The A6 interior is by far the nicest IMO. The nose is a love/hate thing. NONE of these cars have front bumpers that would survive a 5mph crash w/o having to be replaced. Some will just be more expensive.
The RL looks like a stretched Accord to me.
-Paul
RL
M45
5-series
GS
A6
Exterior-wise, I'd currently rank them like so:
5-series
GS
RL
A6
M45
Some of you may notice that this sequence is totally contrary to my previous opinion. I've never seen them all lined up together that way. The 5-series is the most eye-catching of the group, good or bad. In those pictures, the A6 looks even more sterile than the RL, and the M45 looks really narrow. It's length:width ratio is off.
It's funny because I nearly bought an A6 4.2 (S-Line) and was very seriously considering the M45 Sport.
Regardless of my personal history with Audis but impossible to be divorced from my opinion, the Audi interior is (even with the super light wood pictured) the most attractive and using my imagination, I would think the BMW interior WITH the lighter wood and W/O black leather, would be quite the looker, too.
Hmmmmmmm maybe some of us (I jump to mind) just like the German look.
Having "hmmmmmmm'd" however, I did order but not buy the M35X -- with the bourbon interior. I like the glossy wood, but was certainly not thinking the matte rosewood was a distant second. So, the M get's my third place vote.
This is the stuff that is ALL opinion unlike most of what we say which is mostly opinion. :shades: